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Subject: Should Bungie Re-release the Marathon series?

We’ve watched while the stars burned
Out, and creation played in reverse.
The Universe freezing in half-light.
Once I thought to escape.
To end a master, step out of the
Path of collapse. Escape would make us God.
Yet I cannot help but remember one enigma,
A hybrid, elusive destroyer.
This is the one mystery I have not solved.
The only element unaccounted for.

Posted by: Belsebub
Posted by: un gato
Posted by: Tsuchikage
Bungie should re-release the Marathon series. I would love to play them, even if they are a bit old. Why not modernize them for modern PCs, or sell them as a collection on Xbox or PC for a budget price? I'd buy it. Oh, and it should be the original versions of the games, not some crappy remakes.


That's what I've been saying all along! Re-do the graphics, physics, and AI, but KEEP THE TERMINALS AND LEVEL DESIGN. And add in new features such as crosshairs and such, but give us the option of disabling them.

Alright ForceMorph, what would be the problem with that?


It probably wasn't smart to invoke ForceMorph's wrath like that, was it? Oh well.


NO!!! No crosshairs! It is good that there isn't any crosshair in Marathon it is charming and... huuhhhh.... *falling asleep after a horrible nightmare*


"But give use the option of disabling them." It would make the game more easily accesible to more people (aka the "bunnies" as The Rip Saw would put it)

Posted by: Texas Ben
why rework the physics? marathon physics are the best.

If they changed the graphics, they would probably have to change the physics. And I only played a little bit of the game, as I have said before, because I wasn't good enough to get used to the controls, so I wouldn't know how good the original physics were/are.


Jeez, I feel like I'm fighting a one man war here.

[Edited on 8/29/2004 10:51:21 AM]

  • 08.29.2004 10:45 AM PDT
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1. No crosshairs. None. Marathon needs to retain it's difficulty and a bit more realism than current games. Seriously, in real life do you have a crosshair hovering in front of you?

2. If the engine is re-worked then the physics will have to be re-worked, true.

3. There's an issue with maintaining the level design that I didn't think about before. The level design in Marathon is so unique because the engine limited the construction of levels so much... technically the level design was ingenius because it bent the engine. However, with a new engine, these levels would be simple to make. So the question would be how to retain the same level of design in a new engine in which all of the tricks used in the game are no longer needed.

  • 08.29.2004 10:52 AM PDT

We’ve watched while the stars burned
Out, and creation played in reverse.
The Universe freezing in half-light.
Once I thought to escape.
To end a master, step out of the
Path of collapse. Escape would make us God.
Yet I cannot help but remember one enigma,
A hybrid, elusive destroyer.
This is the one mystery I have not solved.
The only element unaccounted for.

Posted by: ForceMorph
1. No crosshairs. None. Marathon needs to retain it's difficulty and a bit more realism than current games. Seriously, in real life do you have a crosshair hovering in front of you?


No, but I don't have any guns, either.

  • 08.29.2004 11:33 AM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
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Posted by: ForceMorph
1. No crosshairs. None. Marathon needs to retain it's difficulty and a bit more realism than current games. Seriously, in real life do you have a crosshair hovering in front of you?

There are these things called "sights" on real firearms; you look through one in the back at one in the front to line up the firearm so that you're going to hit what you think you're pointing at. Some of the fancier ones have cross-hairs, but the most common kind is a little blade at the front and a notch in the back.

So where are these in Marathon? Or Halo, for that matter?

Don't argue realism on the basis that Marathon doesn't have a HUD, or cross-hairs. It badly weakens your argument. If you want to see sights done right in a FPS, try "Call of Duty". Excellent execution of using iron sights there, and great realism with jitter and sway of the aim point according to body posture. I'm impressed. ("FarCry" did a good job as well.)

But Marathon, as great a game as it is, shoots Hollywood. From the hip, and always true. No aiming (it's point and shoot), no shake or sway to account for breathing or stance, no tucking the weapon securely against the shoulder and looking along the length. There are no sights on any of the weapons included. It's Ahnold all the way.

Don't argue that Marathon is "realistic". It simply ain't. It's a lot of fun, it's a ground-breaker on its platform, it's incredibly atmospheric, and it has a fantastic storyline that has yet to be rivaled outside of printed works, but it's not realistic.

-- Steve suggests going with "Full Spectrum Warrior" if you're looking for realism.

  • 08.29.2004 12:05 PM PDT
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Posted by: Anton P Nym
There are these things called "sights" on real firearms; you look through one in the back at one in the front to line up the firearm so that you're going to hit what you think you're pointing at. Some of the fancier ones have cross-hairs, but the most common kind is a little blade at the front and a notch in the back.

So where are these in Marathon? Or Halo, for that matter?

Don't argue realism on the basis that Marathon doesn't have a HUD, or cross-hairs. It badly weakens your argument. If you want to see sights done right in a FPS, try "Call of Duty". Excellent execution of using iron sights there, and great realism with jitter and sway of the aim point according to body posture. I'm impressed. ("FarCry" did a good job as well.)

But Marathon, as great a game as it is, shoots Hollywood. From the hip, and always true. No aiming (it's point and shoot), no shake or sway to account for breathing or stance, no tucking the weapon securely against the shoulder and looking along the length. There are no sights on any of the weapons included. It's Ahnold all the way.

Don't argue that Marathon is "realistic". It simply ain't. It's a lot of fun, it's a ground-breaker on its platform, it's incredibly atmospheric, and it has a fantastic storyline that has yet to be rivaled outside of printed works, but it's not realistic.

-- Steve suggests going with "Full Spectrum Warrior" if you're looking for realism.


I never said Marathon was realistic, bud. I said it has "a bit more realism than current games". It certainly does have inaccuracy written into the code - just fire the machine gun and WHOA, what's this? Why, not all the of the bullets hit the same place! The pistol isn't perfect either, but it's the best. It's the most realistic aiming of the time it was made. I doubt they could have incorporated some world war II iron sights into a game taking place a century or two from now.

  • 08.29.2004 1:42 PM PDT

"FOR YOUR OWN PROTECTION: Ensure brain is engaged before putting keyboard into gear."
Need a ninja?
Got a cheater? [email]h2cheats@microsoft.com[/email]
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I'm certifiable.

Posted by: ForceMorph
I never said Marathon was realistic, bud. I said it has "a bit more realism than current games".

I gave you two "current games" to compare with Marathon, "FarCry" and "Call of Duty." Marathon beats neither in terms of realism. In storyline, Marathon wins easily without working up a sweat. In network play, Marathon is quite likely superior. (Both the current games are horribly vulnerable to cheats.) In sheer enjoyment, I'd argue that Marathon beats both. But not realism.

It certainly does have inaccuracy written into the code - just fire the machine gun and WHOA, what's this? Why, not all the of the bullets hit the same place! The pistol isn't perfect either, but it's the best.
That's not due to poor aim though, that's due to dispersion. An artificially large amount of dispersion at that, probably to mitigate the effect of always being a stable gun platform. The dispersion is not correctable by the player, save only by using the assault rifle in short bursts. (And even then it's not much of an improvement, is it?) You can't stand still and tighten the spread. You can't kneel and gain more stability, or fall prone and make tighter long-distance shots.

Aiming in Marathon isn't realistic; it's a fun version of point and spray.

It's the most realistic aiming of the time it was made.
I didn't call that into question. Of course it was, and there's no way I'm going to dispute that. You said "current games", though, where the claim is, er, rather more debatable.

I doubt they could have incorporated some world war II iron sights into a game taking place a century or two from now.
And that argument, unfortunately, leads to a favourable point for having cross-hairs in your field of vision; after all, it's taking place a century or two from now (actually about se7en centuries, but what the hey) and you're a cyborg. That tech should be as quaint as pikes and halberds by then. Heck, the BoBs in M2 had ocular implants and could reasonably expect to have HUDs and aimpoint indicators.

I'm not questioning the game; Marathon is absurdly fun to play even after ten years. Just please, please, PLEASE, as a favour to all the soldiers eating dust and ducking RPGs as our genteel debate goes on, don't call it realistic.

-- Steve thinks that the most realistic FPS out there is the US Army's NTSC at Fort Irwin... a tad expensive for the typical gamer. Though it'd be cool to rustle up a few thousand friends for a week or two... hmmm...

  • 08.29.2004 2:55 PM PDT

http://source.bungie.org

I don't see what's wrong with Aleph One. It has all the features you people seem to want - it retains the feel of the graphics (sprites seem to suit the game a lot better than models would - I mean, look what happened to Myth 3), it keeps the story exactly the same, it has terminals, you have an option of using a cross-hair to aim which you can turn off, you can use high-res textures, and apart from that, it's Marathon with slightly better graphics.

- Reiginko

  • 08.29.2004 6:57 PM PDT
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Not to mention TCP/IP graphics and wider platform support.

The only 2 feature I would like are EAX support (how cool would that be) and a way to swap the triggers on the shotguns (so right mouse button fires the right hand gun and the left mouse button... you get the idea).

While aleph does add new things (3d model support, scripting, floating platforms etc) it stays backwards compatible - which is great.

  • 08.29.2004 8:25 PM PDT
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While I suppose I'm wasting my time by typing this, since I've never played marathon, I would like a Re-release of marathon, with improved grphics and such, but the ability to play the origional as well. That seems natural to me, since it is a re-release, why not let people see why it deserves the re-release? But that is merely my opinion.

  • 08.29.2004 10:58 PM PDT

We’ve watched while the stars burned
Out, and creation played in reverse.
The Universe freezing in half-light.
Once I thought to escape.
To end a master, step out of the
Path of collapse. Escape would make us God.
Yet I cannot help but remember one enigma,
A hybrid, elusive destroyer.
This is the one mystery I have not solved.
The only element unaccounted for.

I said something similiar earlier, but I do believe you phrased it better.

  • 08.29.2004 11:04 PM PDT

We’ve watched while the stars burned
Out, and creation played in reverse.
The Universe freezing in half-light.
Once I thought to escape.
To end a master, step out of the
Path of collapse. Escape would make us God.
Yet I cannot help but remember one enigma,
A hybrid, elusive destroyer.
This is the one mystery I have not solved.
The only element unaccounted for.

Posted by: ForceMorph
1. No crosshairs. None. Marathon needs to retain it's difficulty and a bit more realism than current games. Seriously, in real life do you have a crosshair hovering in front of you?


I just thought of this. Do you use mouse aiming? Because if you do then thats basically crosshairs.

[Edited on 8/29/2004 11:25:06 PM]

  • 08.29.2004 11:24 PM PDT

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