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  • Subject: Who would win this one on one battle?
Subject: Who would win this one on one battle?
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Semper Fictor


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Nameless Oracle

Posted by: Darthbill99
an automatic weapon fires too fast for a ligtsaber to block. all the MC would have to do is fire an SMG erratically all over the Jedi, and at least some of the shots would hit him/her.

Just firing at the Jedi on full auto would be enough. The recoil randomly knocking aim slightly off target combined with the high rate of fire of automatics would be enough to overpower the jedi.


If the force user was retarded and stood still, or moved in a straight line... yes.

The jedi are good, but they aren't invincible. Enough rapid fire from a weapon that shoots small projectiles will overwhelm the jedi and either seriously wound or kill him. The force would help a jedi vaporize some but not all bullets that would be shot at him. The jedis' best chance at surviving would to run as fast as possible and dodge around. His use of the force against the spartan would be tested as well. The spartan would be able to deflect and/or dodge most objects thrown at him. His immense weight would possible save him from being thrown around a lot due to jedi having a harder time lifting heavy objects, but the jedi might not have that problem.

A spartan has some advantages at his disposal but those are ,so far, untested against a lightsaber. His speed would match a jedis' and his strength would kill one in a single punch. His fast reflexes and combat experience would allow him to survive in close quarters but he would be pushing his luck off a cliff in that event. His weapons would be very difficult to miss due to his deadly aim.

  • 05.09.2011 4:55 PM PDT

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

  • 05.09.2011 4:57 PM PDT

Being taken by surprise means they weren't sufficiently trained. Spartans are trained to analyse and react almost instantly to unexpected situations.

That entire squad didn't fire as many rounds as one MA5 is capable of throwing out in a similar amount of time. Plus, bullets can't be reflected.

  • 05.09.2011 5:00 PM PDT


Posted by: Omanisat
Being taken by surprise means they weren't sufficiently trained. Spartans are trained to analyse and react almost instantly to unexpected situations.

That entire squad didn't fire as many rounds as one MA5 is capable of throwing out in a similar amount of time. Plus, bullets can't be reflected.


Oh yes, because a Spartan can NEVER, EVER be surprised. That line reeks of "Force users suck because they can get killed." Guess what, Spartans died, so they must have not been trained enough. Chief was suprised when grace got blown apart by Brutes if I remember correctly, he must not have been trained enough.

You are right, bullets can't be deflected by the lightsaber, they would simply be vaporized. However, a force user could simply use force push and send the hail of bullets flying back at the Spartan.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 5:12 PM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 5:09 PM PDT
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Semper Fictor


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Omanisat
Being taken by surprise means they weren't sufficiently trained. Spartans are trained to analyse and react almost instantly to unexpected situations.

That entire squad didn't fire as many rounds as one MA5 is capable of throwing out in a similar amount of time. Plus, bullets can't be reflected.


Oh yes, because a Spartan can NEVER, EVER be surprised. That line reeks of "Force users suck because they can get killed." Guess what, Spartans died, so they must have not been trained enough. Chief was suprised when grace got blown apart by Brutes if I remember correctly, he must not have been trained enough.

You are right, bullets can't be deflected by the lightsaber, they would simply be vaporized. However, a force user could simply use force push and send the hail of bullets flying back at the Spartan.

Jedi can die too

  • 05.09.2011 5:16 PM PDT

I'm not saying they never died, or that they can never be surprised. However, upon turning around and seeing their so-called allies pointing guns at them, they wouldn't stand there with an "oh s$%t" look on their face, they would react. Find some cover, use these much vaunted force powers, anything but stand there with your mouth open.

As for using the Force to deflect bullets, why don't they do the same thing with blaster bolts? Despite common misconceptions, Star Wars blasters aren't lasers, the bolts are actually globs of plasma encases in a shell of electromagnetic energy. As plasma is an ionized gas and therefore has mass, a Force user should be able to push them away as well right? Yet they don't.

Having just re-watched the scene in question, the Jedi was killed by six clones. They fired about 25-30 rounds at him. He deflected 5, killing 2 clones. About 3 seconds pass from when he sees them pointing the guns at him until they start shooting.

Knowing this, I've formulated a new strategy. The canny Spartan will make friends with the Jedi in question, fight beside him, for years if necessary. Then when the opportunity presents itself, he'll shoot him dead square in the back.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 5:43 PM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 5:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Omanisat
I'm not saying they never died, or that they can never be surprised. However, upon turning around and seeing their so-called allies pointing guns at them, they wouldn't stand there with an "oh s$%t" look on their face, they would react. Find some cover, use these much vaunted force powers, anything but stand there with your mouth open.

As for using the Force to deflect bullets, why don't they do the same thing with blaster bolts? Despite common misconceptions, Star Wars blasters aren't lasers, the bolts are actually globs of plasma encases in a shell of electromagnetic energy. As plasma is an ionized gas and therefore has mass, a Force user should be able to push them away as well right? Yet they don't.

Having just re-watched the scene in question, the Jedi was killed by six clones. They fired about 25-30 rounds at him. He deflected 5, killing 2 clones. About 3 seconds pass from when he sees them pointing the guns at him until they start shooting.

Knowing this, I've formulated a new strategy. The canny Spartan will make friends with the Jedi in question, fight beside him, for years if necessary. Then when the opportunity presents itself, he'll shoot him dead square in the back.


Again the OP never said it was a jedi, just a force user.

Neither is your plan available, as that much time wouldn't be given.

  • 05.09.2011 6:00 PM PDT

I don't recall any time limit. And isn't every Sith killed by someone close to him/her?

  • 05.09.2011 6:02 PM PDT


Posted by: Omanisat
I don't recall any time limit. And isn't every Sith killed by someone close to him/her?


Yes, but not by surprise.


The sith train their apprentices knowing they would be killed by their pupil. Though, force users in general exceed in 1 vs 1.

Oh, and that a force user couldn't block all the bullets, one time Darth Bane was exercising outside when a rainstorm started. Not a single raindrop hit him, either from being vaporized by the lightsaber or dodged.

  • 05.09.2011 6:15 PM PDT

A bullet has more mass and far more speed then a raindrop, and thus I would have to think it would much harder to stop.

I just read an article on Wookiepedia about what they call Slugthrowers,chemical-explosive ballistic weapons that are the SW equivalent of a Halo gun. There's a section that states mercenaries who knew they were likely to encounter Jedi or other lightsaber wielders often armed themselves with such weapons, as they were much harder to block.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 6:24 PM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 6:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
If he's as strong as Obi-Wan, then the Spartan. Obi-Wan is an outrageous sword dueler for a Jedi (being a Guardian) and would likely walk all up and down the Arbiter in a CQB. But at range, he's less so, especially since blocking a bullet is not the same as blocking a bolt of plasma.


You are right, it's not the same.

Instead of the bolt being reflected, the bullet simply vaporizes upon impacting the blade.

And yeah, people seem to not notice how damn powerful the force can be, or what tactics can be used.

And the one guy seems hell-bent on making the Spartan win by randomly giving him things outside of the situation provided.


And people overestimate the Force's power in certain areas.

Example: Obi-Wan could not Force Crush an entire armada with a flick of his hand. Being a Guardian, he was a physical athlete and a lightsaber warrior, less so a Force user.

Hell, even a Counseler couldn't do some of the -blam!- people say Jedi/Sith could.

Obi-Wan was just another Jedi with a certain knack for sword fighting. Normal Jedi like him are not anything on the scale of Starkiller, Palpetine or Yoda.

That isn't to say he didn't use the Force, but it always was to get out of situations where he was trapped (blowing Grevious away when he got too close in Ep. III). He never used it as a standard weapon.

And he only ever pulled an enemy's weapon out of their hand when trying to diffuse a situation peacefully (in fact, Vader was the only one I can recall doing that).

These two guys are trying to kill each other. Remember: Obi-Wan is still only human, despite his powers.


No, I wasn't saying Obi-wan could crush a fleet.

Thing is, we aren't talking about Obi-wan. We are talking about a force user, Jedi, Grey jedi, Dark jedi, sith, whatever. Of similar strength to Obi-wan.

Simply put, saying "They wouldn't use force pull because Obi wan didnt." is bull. I'm looking at this with ALL the powers they could use.


Then the Spartan sets an intricate trap and waits for days for the Force user. Or sets off a grenade as a distraction to shoot him in the back.

Odds are, the Force user might not even see the Spartan before its too late.

  • 05.09.2011 6:23 PM PDT


Posted by: Omanisat
A bullet has more mass and far more speed then a raindrop, and thus I would have to think it would much harder to stop.

I just read an article on Wookiepedia about what they call Slugthrowers,chemical-explosive ballistic weapons that are the SW equivalent of a Halo gun. There's a section that states mercenaries who knew they were likely to encounter Jedi or other lightsaber wielders often armed themselves with such weapons, as they were much harder to block.


Precisely.

The only difference between a slug thrower and Assault rifle is the name. Both are the exact same kind of gun. An SMG on full auto would most certainly overwhelm a Jedi.

"For example, during the days of the Galactic Republic, mercenaries fearing an intervention by Jedi Knights used rapid-fire slugthrowers that were impossible to completely deflect, unlike blaster bolts."

--Wookieepedia page: "Slugthrowers"

[Edited on 05.09.2011 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 6:28 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Then the Spartan sets an intricate trap and waits for days for the Force user. Or sets off a grenade as a distraction to shoot him in the back.

Odds are, the Force user might not even see the Spartan before its too late.


Okay, now you've got to admit that you're really stretching it. You've twisted the rules of engagement to suit the Spartan. Aside from the fact that the Force user would most likely sense the danger, you've created a scenario which is a little unfair. It's a one-on-one battle, so to make the playing field equal you can't put one of them in the woods and say "go get him." In that case there's nothing stopping the Jedi from just leaving and letting the Spartan die from old age, then declare himself the victor.

  • 05.09.2011 6:46 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Then the Spartan sets an intricate trap and waits for days for the Force user. Or sets off a grenade as a distraction to shoot him in the back.

Odds are, the Force user might not even see the Spartan before its too late.


Okay, now you've got to admit that you're really stretching it. You've twisted the rules of engagement to suit the Spartan. Aside from the fact that the Force user would most likely sense the danger, you've created a scenario which is a little unfair. It's a one-on-one battle, so to make the playing field equal you can't put one of them in the woods and say "go get him." In that case there's nothing stopping the Jedi from just leaving and letting the Spartan die from old age, then declare himself the victor.


Jedi have been known in the past to pull a gun from their enemy's hand at will, so why not?

Spartans have been known to set terrific traps and are trained to be masters of stealth, so why not?

I'm merely trying to say that just because a character has been known to do something, doesn't mean it would do it simply because you or anyone else said he would. And indeed, Jedi have pulled guns from hands before. Only to diffuse a situation peacefully; in heated combat, they never think to do it.

And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.

  • 05.09.2011 6:51 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.


Then this is where this whole thing will grind to a halt. With people trying to make one win over the other using the scenario instead of the abilities of each combatant.

[Edited on 05.09.2011 7:03 PM PDT]

  • 05.09.2011 6:58 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I'm merely trying to say that just because a character has been known to do something, doesn't mean it would do it simply because you or anyone else said he would. And indeed, Jedi have pulled guns from hands before. Only to diffuse a situation peacefully; in heated combat, they never think to do it.

And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.


That's the thing, it's a force user.

Could be a Jedi, grey jedi, dark jedi, sith...

I mean, what if it was Darth Maul engaging the Spartan? Spartan's gone.

  • 05.09.2011 7:08 PM PDT

^All the spartan needs there is a conveniantly placed bottomless pit.

  • 05.09.2011 7:15 PM PDT

What a waste....

Okay, well, if the S II was Linda, they would win hands down.

Here's what would go down:

Linda hides and conceals herself, takes aim at the Jedi, and fires. Of course, being Linda, she can fire one handed, so she also chucks a nade to confuse him more. As far as I know, Jedi can't stop shrapnel. Also, being able to be in front of the guy a millisecond after the nade goes off would allow Linda to punch him, take his saber and shank his ass.

  • 05.09.2011 7:55 PM PDT

Darth Vader would win against all.

  • 05.09.2011 8:34 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.


Then this is where this whole thing will grind to a halt. With people trying to make one win over the other using the scenario instead of the abilities of each combatant.


Thats what I'm trying to prevent

I'm trying to point out that just because a character has been known to do something, or are technically able to, doesn't mean they would use that ability. As it stands, the Spartan would have little time to set a trap, and the Knight's first reaction would not to pull the gun away.

  • 05.10.2011 5:19 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
I'm merely trying to say that just because a character has been known to do something, doesn't mean it would do it simply because you or anyone else said he would. And indeed, Jedi have pulled guns from hands before. Only to diffuse a situation peacefully; in heated combat, they never think to do it.

And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.


That's the thing, it's a force user.

Could be a Jedi, grey jedi, dark jedi, sith...

I mean, what if it was Darth Maul engaging the Spartan? Spartan's gone.


Well, we do know that bullets are highlly effective against Jedi, so the argument it'd be no different then a plasma or energy bolt is no longer valid. But again, Maul was an exceptional duelist. The Force wasn't his first, second or third attack. It was always close the gap and move faster in a CQB.

Most of these characters, except for a Counseler like Yoda or Qui-Gon, would need to get close before they could be really effective. And thats where bullets come in.

I'm just taking a look at the Jedi how I've always seen them. Saying all of the Jedi in the Temple were caught off guard doesn't make sense. Sure, they initially were, but its pretty obvioius some of the Knights would have recuperated, and if not organized a defense, then at least would have prepared themselves to fight more readily then the guy with the tall forehead. As it were, everyone in the Temple was dead in a few hours.

Shoot at them a few times and they go down just the same as another human. Its just the Spartan's weapons are much, much more effective on Jedi then the Clones were.

  • 05.10.2011 5:26 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.


Then this is where this whole thing will grind to a halt. With people trying to make one win over the other using the scenario instead of the abilities of each combatant.


Thats what I'm trying to prevent

I'm trying to point out that just because a character has been known to do something, or are technically able to, doesn't mean they would use that ability. As it stands, the Spartan would have little time to set a trap, and the Knight's first reaction would not to pull the gun away.


How do we know that? Each and every force user approaches situations differently. Jedi, sith, they are react in their own way.

Saying there isn't a one who would open up with a force pull is stupid. If we are trying to see who would win based off of their abilities, guess what? Don't exclude the force user from some of their ones.

[Edited on 05.10.2011 5:35 AM PDT]

  • 05.10.2011 5:34 AM PDT

Impossible situation.

SPARTAN > most Jedi, but SPARTAN < many force users.

It all depends on what force abilities they have, and what their frame of mind is, their combat style etc...

  • 05.10.2011 11:57 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
And Spartans have been known to set great traps for enemies; but only when the enemy was coming to him/her and the scenario alloud for it.


Then this is where this whole thing will grind to a halt. With people trying to make one win over the other using the scenario instead of the abilities of each combatant.


Thats what I'm trying to prevent

I'm trying to point out that just because a character has been known to do something, or are technically able to, doesn't mean they would use that ability. As it stands, the Spartan would have little time to set a trap, and the Knight's first reaction would not to pull the gun away.


How do we know that? Each and every force user approaches situations differently. Jedi, sith, they are react in their own way.

Saying there isn't a one who would open up with a force pull is stupid. If we are trying to see who would win based off of their abilities, guess what? Don't exclude the force user from some of their ones.


And thats precisely why I'm talking about Obi-Wan. Since the OP did state this Force User was as powerful as Kenobi, I took that to mean Kenobi specifically for the exact reason you just posted. The Force Users in Star Wars always specilize in one field over the other. Spartans, while essentially as effective as Jedi and likely comparable in universe terms (Spartans/Elites are to Halo as Jedi are to Star Wars) the Jedi and Sith have far more elbow room to specialize in certain fields.

A Guardian would likely lose to a Spartan. He'd in turn destroy an Elite. A Counseler would defeat or be an even match to a Spartan (likely defeat pending on the Jedi), but aren't skilled enough to kill an Elite in a CQB.

But with so much variety in classifications for Force users, when comparing Force Users to a standard run of the mill Spartan, you need to be specific about which one you're talking about or people will start throwing out everything and anything that a Force user can technically do and say they win, while no one is any wiser as to who which Jedi you're talking about.

  • 05.10.2011 2:14 PM PDT