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Subject: Should Reach had fallen in 1 day?

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ajw34307
Ah yes, it was Holland. It must have been the FOPJ because we never saw any more Covenant ships slippin' in from after LNOS.

I like to believe it was merely the first wave of the FOPJ, even though it's never mentioned Thel made them go in waves, it would make the battle not as bad for the UNSC until the rest of the FOPJ comes and brings down the hammer. More UNSC ships were en-route, so it wouldn't be an easy sweep for the Covies.

  • 05.11.2011 1:56 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: manwith
Well, the Battle of Reach lasted mere two hours. Anything before that or after, were simply skirmishes until the fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 30th.


The FOPJ arrived at the end of LNOS.

  • 05.11.2011 1:57 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: privet caboose
Cobra, as always, you fail to mention the fact that although Reach fell in a day, it wasn't because the UNSC was "weak" it was because it was BY FAR the largest Covenant fleet ever seen. Over 700 ships.

Of course the UNSC only lasted an hour against something that size.


Really? I heard it is labeled 700 only once in the book.

Of course, I've also heard this line from you all. "The defenses would hold as long as the super macs were powered."

So, for Reach to fall in a day, that must mean the generators had little actual defense.

Of course, we could go by the 343 version. The battle started properly after the LNOS was destroyed. Then, on the 30th, the massive fleet of Particular Justice arrived. From that moment, the battle as we read it in the book happened.


Think back to First Strike when Red Team reach Charlie Company. The Covenant massacred those who were guarding the SMAC generators later into the battle.

Where is the evidence saying that the FOPJ arrived on the 30th in the game? I recall Fermion saying "it's the whole damn Covenant fleet," at the end of LNOS.

I think that was Holland saying "It looks like the whole damn Covenant fleet!". It probably was the FOPJ or a smaller detachment.


Ah yes, it was Holland. It must have been the FOPJ because we never saw any more Covenant ships slippin' in from after LNOS.


Because you were never in space on the 30th...

http://halo.xbox.com/en-us/intel/related/video/assault-on-the -stars-3/1ebc1b7e-0aa9-4b28-a085-b0c84c317ae1

Yeah, they did get nearly slaughtered, but it makes sense that this happened after a week, week+ of fighting as opposed to an hour for a heavily defended location.

  • 05.11.2011 1:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
Well, the Battle of Reach lasted mere two hours. Anything before that or after, were simply skirmishes until the fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 30th.


The FOPJ arrived at the end of LNOS.


Source?

  • 05.11.2011 1:57 PM PDT


Posted by: manwith
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
Well, the Battle of Reach lasted mere two hours. Anything before that or after, were simply skirmishes until the fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 30th.


The FOPJ arrived at the end of LNOS.


Source?


Video I linked said a fleet arrived the 30th (and it's from 343 themselves, so don't -blam!- about it being non-canon.)

A revised timeline of the battle I saw on halopedia placed the FOPJ arriving on the 30th, whether it was in full force or just the bulk.

  • 05.11.2011 2:00 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Reach falling in a day sounds more like a cop out ending than anythign else. First Strike portrays it much better while the game, in my opinion, is the best interpretation of Reach's fall. The Fall of Reach book was just bad.


Reach falling in a day showed just how inequipped and unprepared humanity were to face the Covenant, the battle lasting a day was in no way a cop-out. Can't you look at the bigger picture rather than just your own opinion?

I don't want to have to spend ages explaining exactly why the game portrayed the battle of Reach very poorly (except Exodus).

Still feels like a moot point considering the UNSC beat back the Covenant from Sigma Octanus. I was expecting the top UNSC fortress world, excluding Earth, to stand a better chance. Also, don't bother spending ages, I'm not looking for it.


The Covenant attacked Sigma Octanus with about 20 ships and humanity outnumbered them by about 30 extra ships, the Covenant attacked Reach with over 300.

Reach had about 150 ships and 20 Super MACs. It still should not have ended so easily in the Covenant's favor.


It was retconned to 700 Covie ships, plus change.

  • 05.11.2011 2:35 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
It was retconned to 700 Covie ships, plus change.

And yet that makes it an even worse cop out ending.

  • 05.11.2011 2:37 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ajw34307
Ah yes, it was Holland. It must have been the FOPJ because we never saw any more Covenant ships slippin' in from after LNOS.

I like to believe it was merely the first wave of the FOPJ, even though it's never mentioned Thel made them go in waves, it would make the battle not as bad for the UNSC until the rest of the FOPJ comes and brings down the hammer. More UNSC ships were en-route, so it wouldn't be an easy sweep for the Covies.


So why exactly would Thel do this?

  • 05.11.2011 2:45 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: ajw34307
Ah yes, it was Holland. It must have been the FOPJ because we never saw any more Covenant ships slippin' in from after LNOS.

I like to believe it was merely the first wave of the FOPJ, even though it's never mentioned Thel made them go in waves, it would make the battle not as bad for the UNSC until the rest of the FOPJ comes and brings down the hammer. More UNSC ships were en-route, so it wouldn't be an easy sweep for the Covies.


So why exactly would Thel do this?

Maybe he was personally enroute to Reach, but those just happened ot be the first ships to arrive. It's all speculation.

  • 05.11.2011 2:58 PM PDT

RED BRICK STUDIOS!

Spread out, please. If TFoR was the definitive canon source, the Halo universe would be VERY dull.

  • 05.11.2011 3:09 PM PDT

Game was epic. Just wished the whole Cortona-split thing was mentioned in the newer book, the fact that Cortona chose Chief as the true carrier was emphasized, and we saw tons of ships and SMACs in orbit (kinda like an original Lego Starwars Ep III space battle scene on steoroids...spelling fail ;p) But yeah, in the end it seemed to work out.

  • 05.11.2011 3:24 PM PDT

oh, and yes I think it should have happened in a day. But even so, the UNSC could have been a bit more buffed up. For example, there's never any actual ship in the game other than the PoA. I would have liked to see a whole lot of those kinda ships flying around me.

  • 05.11.2011 3:27 PM PDT

Wait... the game lengthened it to a month? I mean, I knew it lengthened it but I thought only by a day or two. Was it lengthened by a month?

  • 05.11.2011 3:32 PM PDT

What are talking about? I can recall at least 4 different frigates: Two attacking Covenant ground forces in TotS, The Grafton, and the Savannah.

And, yes, the battle was lengthened to a month. The first mission takes place in late July, the final mission on the 30th of August.

[Edited on 05.11.2011 3:35 PM PDT]

  • 05.11.2011 3:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Omanisat
What are talking about? I can recall at least 4 different frigates: Two attacking Covenant ground forces in TotS, The Grafton, and the Savannah.

And, yes, the battle was lengthened to a month. The first mission takes place in late July, the final mission on the 30th of August.

Wow, I didn't know that, thanks. by the way, i think he means the bigger ships like Marathon and Halcyon class cruisers.

  • 05.11.2011 3:37 PM PDT

It's ridiculous that a frigate is capable of operating in an atmosphere, to say nothing of a cruiser.

  • 05.11.2011 3:44 PM PDT

it worked for the books.
for the game it needed to be a much longer campaign

  • 05.11.2011 3:52 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Also take note, Dot said the the UNSC fleet was coming to Reach. The Covenant fleet would come later, so it seems that both sides constantly had more ships coming in and out of the conflict and the standoff only ended when the MACs fell. That would be a long battle.

  • 05.11.2011 3:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Son Of Mountains
it worked for the books.
for the game it needed to be a much longer campaign

they could of fit the campaign in a few days

  • 05.11.2011 4:09 PM PDT


Posted by: Omanisat
What are talking about? I can recall at least 4 different frigates: Two attacking Covenant ground forces in TotS, The Grafton, and the Savannah.

And, yes, the battle was lengthened to a month. The first mission takes place in late July, the final mission on the 30th of August.


The battle didn't truly start until LNOS, which was mid-August.

The first mission wasn't part of the battle.

  • 05.11.2011 4:10 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

I prefer a month because it would be unrealistic if it was just a day. The covenant outnumbered the UNSC at least 2 to 1 (I am not going with the 700 number because I seem to remember a lot of you refusing to believe it. It is also only stated once there are 700 ships) so it is only logical that some sections of the UNSC retreat rather than have the entire fleet destroyed.

It is almost impossible for the Covenant to overtake a planet in a day. For them to set up all the base, deploy the troops and kill all resistance should take at least a few days. I do not consider the battle over until every shred of resistance is utterly and totally destroyed.

  • 05.11.2011 4:21 PM PDT

Wake me when the jews are gone.

no it doesn't
the purpose of fall of reach was to show that the ground victories the UNSC had were nothing compared to the covenant victories on space because after they gain the space superiority they can simply glass the planet also does the big WW2 naval battles lasted a month or a day

  • 05.11.2011 4:24 PM PDT

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