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Subject: Should Reach had fallen in 1 day?

Wake me when the jews are gone.


Posted by: Xd00999
I prefer a month because it would be unrealistic if it was just a day. The covenant outnumbered the UNSC at least 2 to 1 (I am not going with the 700 number because I seem to remember a lot of you refusing to believe it. It is also only stated once there are 700 ships) so it is only logical that some sections of the UNSC retreat rather than have the entire fleet destroyed.

It is almost impossible for the Covenant to overtake a planet in a day. For them to set up all the base, deploy the troops and kill all resistance should take at least a few days. I do not consider the battle over until every shred of resistance is utterly and totally destroyed.
one word glassing

  • 05.11.2011 4:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dustin 6047

Posted by: fsabran

Posted by: Xd00999
I prefer a month because it would be unrealistic if it was just a day. The covenant outnumbered the UNSC at least 2 to 1 (I am not going with the 700 number because I seem to remember a lot of you refusing to believe it. It is also only stated once there are 700 ships) so it is only logical that some sections of the UNSC retreat rather than have the entire fleet destroyed.

It is almost impossible for the Covenant to overtake a planet in a day. For them to set up all the base, deploy the troops and kill all resistance should take at least a few days. I do not consider the battle over until every shred of resistance is utterly and totally destroyed.
one word glassing


Even glassing takes time.

When the glassing starts that usually means the battle is already over. Either all UNSC ships in the area were destroyed or they retreated, allowing the covenant ships to turn their attention to forming up and bombarding the planet.

  • 05.11.2011 5:37 PM PDT

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My name is Tyler. Computers and Video games is what I love to do.

1 day.

  • 05.11.2011 5:45 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

One day. Look, whether you follow the game or the book we know one thing: The Covenant obliterated Reach. Either way Reach is going to hell, and honestly you've got to look at it from more of a story telling perspective than a logical perspective (slip space travel won't happen, so let's disregard Halo as realistic for the sake of argument). Halo is more like one of Homer's Epic Tragedies than a video game plot line. And Greek Epics have no room for short of epicness. One day just fits the mood of the story better - Humanity's one hope, destroyed in ONE MEASLY DAY!?

  • 05.11.2011 6:17 PM PDT


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
One day. Look, whether you follow the game or the book we know one thing: The Covenant obliterated Reach. Either way Reach is going to hell, and honestly you've got to look at it from more of a story telling perspective than a logical perspective (slip space travel won't happen, so let's disregard Halo as realistic for the sake of argument). Halo is more like one of Homer's Epic Tragedies than a video game plot line. And Greek Epics have no room for short of epicness. One day just fits the mood of the story better - Humanity's one hope, destroyed in ONE MEASLY DAY!?


Didn't the siege of troy last years, until the one deciding night?

Likewise, the siege of Reach lasts days-weeks, until the 30th when the second Covenant fleet arrives.

  • 05.11.2011 6:34 PM PDT

The Greeks didn't have the option of melting the Trojans from orbit. If they had, the siege would have been significantly shorter.

  • 05.11.2011 6:41 PM PDT


Posted by: MegaMuffin16
One day. Look, whether you follow the game or the book we know one thing: The Covenant obliterated Reach. Either way Reach is going to hell, and honestly you've got to look at it from more of a story telling perspective than a logical perspective (slip space travel won't happen, so let's disregard Halo as realistic for the sake of argument). Halo is more like one of Homer's Epic Tragedies than a video game plot line. And Greek Epics have no room for short of epicness. One day just fits the mood of the story better - Humanity's one hope, destroyed in ONE MEASLY DAY!?


I agree. I guess they were going for a slow painful death kind of feel, but I didn't really feel like the fall of Reach was any different then any other game I've played.
It would have been more impactful to see Reach get obliterated the first half the game in one day--humanity's only hope erased in a single day--and then desperately trying to survive or escape the last half of the game, all the while constantly reminded of the death of a planet.

Bombarded cities, forests envoloped by fire, dead in the streets, hundreds of Covie ships in the sky, crashed and burned UNSC ships to cement the sense that we lost, maybe we see a random person killed in cold blood by an Elite or even a pack of Grunts, followed by you trying to save him/her, but being to late, etc.

The game is rated M for a reason. Bungie never takes advantage of that fact. Personally, I feel they've gone soft and lost their touch if Reach is any indication.

And most importantly: it would have stayed consistent with canon.

  • 05.11.2011 6:49 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
Well, the Battle of Reach lasted mere two hours. Anything before that or after, were simply skirmishes until the fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 30th.


The FOPJ arrived at the end of LNOS.


Actually it arrived on the 30th, watch the Waypoint video DaeFaron linked if you don't believe it.

OT:
I think one month makes infinitely more sense because of the resources the UNSC had present, there were more Covenant ships than UNSC ships present yes, but it wasn't really all the significant a numerical advantage if you factor in all the ODPs the UNSC had present, they would serve almost the exact same function as a warship only less mobile. So really the odds were probably about even. And not to mention the UNSC had most if not all their greatest military minds present at Reach, people nearly as brilliant at Keyes at making strategies. So really the battle should have lasted more than a day, hell it didn't even last a day in the book it was something like two hours, which is completely absurd, especially considering the UNSC lasted far long with similar odds in most of their other battles.

  • 05.11.2011 9:53 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: ajw34307
Posted by: manwith
Well, the Battle of Reach lasted mere two hours. Anything before that or after, were simply skirmishes until the fleet of Particular Justice arrived on the 30th.


The FOPJ arrived at the end of LNOS.


Actually it arrived on the 30th, watch the Waypoint video DaeFaron linked if you don't believe it.

OT:
I think one month makes infinitely more sense because of the resources the UNSC had present, there were more Covenant ships than UNSC ships present yes, but it wasn't really all the significant a numerical advantage if you factor in all the ODPs the UNSC had present, they would serve almost the exact same function as a warship only less mobile. So really the odds were probably about even. And not to mention the UNSC had most if not all their greatest military minds present at Reach, people nearly as brilliant at Keyes at making strategies. So really the battle should have lasted more than a day, hell it didn't even last a day in the book it was something like two hours, which is completely absurd, especially considering the UNSC lasted far long with similar odds in most of their other battles.


Worse odds, if you think about it. The lack of ODP in other battles pretty much meant the UNSC would lose far more to get victory.

And yeah, it's kinda stupid that one of TWO planets the humans held which had defenses and were best prepared for the Covenant to arrive, fell super quick.

Just as retarded as the fact that the line would hold as long as the super-macs kept firing, for it to fall within hours means the generators were not defended as they should have been.

  • 05.11.2011 10:09 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

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Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
One day. Look, whether you follow the game or the book we know one thing: The Covenant obliterated Reach. Either way Reach is going to hell, and honestly you've got to look at it from more of a story telling perspective than a logical perspective (slip space travel won't happen, so let's disregard Halo as realistic for the sake of argument). Halo is more like one of Homer's Epic Tragedies than a video game plot line. And Greek Epics have no room for short of epicness. One day just fits the mood of the story better - Humanity's one hope, destroyed in ONE MEASLY DAY!?


I agree. I guess they were going for a slow painful death kind of feel, but I didn't really feel like the fall of Reach was any different then any other game I've played.
It would have been more impactful to see Reach get obliterated the first half the game in one day--humanity's only hope erased in a single day--and then desperately trying to survive or escape the last half of the game, all the while constantly reminded of the death of a planet.

Bombarded cities, forests envoloped by fire, dead in the streets, hundreds of Covie ships in the sky, crashed and burned UNSC ships to cement the sense that we lost, maybe we see a random person killed in cold blood by an Elite or even a pack of Grunts, followed by you trying to save him/her, but being to late, etc.

The game is rated M for a reason. Bungie never takes advantage of that fact. Personally, I feel they've gone soft and lost their touch if Reach is any indication.

And most importantly: it would have stayed consistent with canon.


I agree. That is why this Halo: Reach that I refuse to see it as canon because there's SO MANY reasons- such as SPARTAN-IIIs aren't supposed to be at Reach, a month? bull-blam!-. We prefer 1 day because it gives off more grimace feeling for us readers. Besides, it may fell in a day would make UNSC weak but not really. UNSC needed 3:1 kill ratio to beat the Covenants in space and they don't have that. 150 warships and 20 ODPs fiercely defended reach in a day, taking 2/3rd of FOJ's fleet with them. Does it not count for them doing something?!

  • 05.11.2011 10:19 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron\
Worse odds, if you think about it. The lack of ODP in other battles pretty much meant the UNSC would lose far more to get victory.

And yeah, it's kinda stupid that one of TWO planets the humans held which had defenses and were best prepared for the Covenant to arrive, fell super quick.

Just as retarded as the fact that the line would hold as long as the super-macs kept firing, for it to fall within hours means the generators were not defended as they should have been.

The UNSC was actually winning until the MAC Defense Grid went off-line. This was a result of Covenant landing craft sneaking in through the poles and overwhelming the position of Red Team. While many may be irritated in how quickly the battle happens in Reach, you must realize that as time progresses battles grow short and shorter. What took weeks or months in ancient times takes a matter of hours today. What's to say the same of 500 years in the future? A global war could easily be over in a single day depending on the situation. Especially when you have less ships vs. an armada made of much more advanced weaponry.

  • 05.11.2011 10:30 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron\
Worse odds, if you think about it. The lack of ODP in other battles pretty much meant the UNSC would lose far more to get victory.

And yeah, it's kinda stupid that one of TWO planets the humans held which had defenses and were best prepared for the Covenant to arrive, fell super quick.

Just as retarded as the fact that the line would hold as long as the super-macs kept firing, for it to fall within hours means the generators were not defended as they should have been.

The UNSC was actually winning until the MAC Defense Grid went off-line. This was a result of Covenant landing craft sneaking in through the poles and overwhelming the position of Red Team. While many may be irritated in how quickly the battle happens in Reach, you must realize that as time progresses battles grow short and shorter. What took weeks or months in ancient times takes a matter of hours today. What's to say the same of 500 years in the future? A global war could easily be over in a single day depending on the situation. Especially when you have less ships vs. an armada made of much more advanced weaponry.


A: Covenant landing craft didn't sneak in, they were known about.
B: Bar UNSC/ONI high command structures, those generators should have had the heaviest defenses, even before the Spartans arrived.

  • 05.11.2011 10:36 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
A: Covenant landing craft didn't sneak in, they were known about.
B: Bar UNSC/ONI high command structures, those generators should have had the heaviest defenses, even before the Spartans arrived.

A: Semantics
B: Did you read First Strike and the account of the portion of Blue Team that helped out on Reach? It is understandable that the generators fell.

  • 05.11.2011 10:39 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
A: Covenant landing craft didn't sneak in, they were known about.
B: Bar UNSC/ONI high command structures, those generators should have had the heaviest defenses, even before the Spartans arrived.

A: Semantics
B: Did you read First Strike and the account of the portion of Blue Team that helped out on Reach? It is understandable that the generators fell.


Yes, I did, and it honestly makes more sense for the defenders to be killed off, and the massive bombing run called in, AFTER prolonged fighting.

Having them swept aside by an overwhelming Covenant ground force, when ONLY phantoms/spirits had made it to the poles seems retarded.

  • 05.11.2011 10:46 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
One day. Look, whether you follow the game or the book we know one thing: The Covenant obliterated Reach. Either way Reach is going to hell, and honestly you've got to look at it from more of a story telling perspective than a logical perspective (slip space travel won't happen, so let's disregard Halo as realistic for the sake of argument). Halo is more like one of Homer's Epic Tragedies than a video game plot line. And Greek Epics have no room for short of epicness. One day just fits the mood of the story better - Humanity's one hope, destroyed in ONE MEASLY DAY!?


I agree. I guess they were going for a slow painful death kind of feel, but I didn't really feel like the fall of Reach was any different then any other game I've played.
It would have been more impactful to see Reach get obliterated the first half the game in one day--humanity's only hope erased in a single day--and then desperately trying to survive or escape the last half of the game, all the while constantly reminded of the death of a planet.

Bombarded cities, forests envoloped by fire, dead in the streets, hundreds of Covie ships in the sky, crashed and burned UNSC ships to cement the sense that we lost, maybe we see a random person killed in cold blood by an Elite or even a pack of Grunts, followed by you trying to save him/her, but being to late, etc.

The game is rated M for a reason. Bungie never takes advantage of that fact. Personally, I feel they've gone soft and lost their touch if Reach is any indication.

And most importantly: it would have stayed consistent with canon.


I agree. That is why this Halo: Reach that I refuse to see it as canon because there's SO MANY reasons- such as SPARTAN-IIIs aren't supposed to be at Reach, a month? bull-blam!-. We prefer 1 day because it gives off more grimace feeling for us readers. Besides, it may fell in a day would make UNSC weak but not really. UNSC needed 3:1 kill ratio to beat the Covenants in space and they don't have that. 150 warships and 20 ODPs fiercely defended reach in a day, taking 2/3rd of FOJ's fleet with them. Does it not count for them doing something?!
I'm very happy to know I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

  • 05.12.2011 5:55 AM PDT

I don't think it should have fallen in 1 day.

Actually Reach fell over a period of a few days, followed by some small, but effective, guerilla warfare from small pockets of UNSC/Spartan warriors.

Chief gets back to Reach about 3 weeks later if I'm not mistaken (writing this from the top of my head ;) ), and that is basically the day(s) that the Battle for Reach is definatly over.

The way the battle was portrayed in Reach (the game) was a bit lame tho. I'm not so much upset by the way they extended the Battle (even tho it was extended to a far too long period for the First Battle for Reach), but by the way its scale was portrayed.

Reach was Covie at its best against UNSC at its best. Huge fight over a longer period (space battle being over fairly quickly).

Earth...that one should have fallen faster...and we should have been able to play that in H3, instead of briging us into the party when its over...

  • 05.12.2011 6:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Dustin 6047
The book probably only said it fell in one day because the writter didn't think about all of the smaller skirmishes and battles that would have taken place and not to mention the strategy the Covenant used (setting up spires and stuff before the actual invasion) which all would extend the fall to about a month rather than a day. I'm just going to go with what Omanisat said about how the fleet fell in a day, but ground engagements would still continue before and after.



We are paraphrasing when we say reach fell in a day. What we are talking about is the space battle that lasted an hour and the covenant took control over the planet, hence it "falling in one day".

Battles on the planet could have keep up for a month and no longer and that would be understandable.

  • 05.12.2011 8:20 AM PDT
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Both TFoR and Reachs versions of the battle sucked in my opinion. TFoR was way too short. It was like the UNSC went "ok the covenant beat us. Alright everyone lets go to earth" and that was it. I would be fine if the space battle lasted for maybe a day, but not 2 hours. Its understandable that the UNSC were overrun but the navy basically called it quits after the first skirmish.

Reachs version was extended without showing us much of anything except Noble sneaking around farms. Some people defend this by saying Noble was operating on the other side of the planet away from the major fights. Ok. Thats understandable, but it goes against the entire point of having the game take place on Reach. Whats the point of having the setting during the battle of Reach if we don't see or take part in the actual battle? I was expecting to at least see major battles in cutscenes but we didn't even get that.

  • 05.12.2011 3:22 PM PDT


Posted by: Nameless Oracle
Both TFoR and Reachs versions of the battle sucked in my opinion. TFoR was way too short. It was like the UNSC went "ok the covenant beat us. Alright everyone lets go to earth" and that was it. I would be fine if the space battle lasted for maybe a day, but not 2 hours. Its understandable that the UNSC were overrun but the navy basically called it quits after the first skirmish.

Reachs version was extended without showing us much of anything except Noble sneaking around farms. Some people defend this by saying Noble was operating on the other side of the planet away from the major fights. Ok. Thats understandable, but it goes against the entire point of having the game take place on Reach. Whats the point of having the setting during the battle of Reach if we don't see or take part in the actual battle? I was expecting to at least see major battles in cutscenes but we didn't even get that.


This.

  • 05.12.2011 3:59 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: MegaMuffin16
One day. Look, whether you follow the game or the book we know one thing: The Covenant obliterated Reach. Either way Reach is going to hell, and honestly you've got to look at it from more of a story telling perspective than a logical perspective (slip space travel won't happen, so let's disregard Halo as realistic for the sake of argument). Halo is more like one of Homer's Epic Tragedies than a video game plot line. And Greek Epics have no room for short of epicness. One day just fits the mood of the story better - Humanity's one hope, destroyed in ONE MEASLY DAY!?


I agree. I guess they were going for a slow painful death kind of feel, but I didn't really feel like the fall of Reach was any different then any other game I've played.
It would have been more impactful to see Reach get obliterated the first half the game in one day--humanity's only hope erased in a single day--and then desperately trying to survive or escape the last half of the game, all the while constantly reminded of the death of a planet.

Bombarded cities, forests envoloped by fire, dead in the streets, hundreds of Covie ships in the sky, crashed and burned UNSC ships to cement the sense that we lost, maybe we see a random person killed in cold blood by an Elite or even a pack of Grunts, followed by you trying to save him/her, but being to late, etc.

The game is rated M for a reason. Bungie never takes advantage of that fact. Personally, I feel they've gone soft and lost their touch if Reach is any indication.

And most importantly: it would have stayed consistent with canon.


I agree. That is why this Halo: Reach that I refuse to see it as canon because there's SO MANY reasons- such as SPARTAN-IIIs aren't supposed to be at Reach, a month? bull-blam!-. We prefer 1 day because it gives off more grimace feeling for us readers. Besides, it may fell in a day would make UNSC weak but not really. UNSC needed 3:1 kill ratio to beat the Covenants in space and they don't have that. 150 warships and 20 ODPs fiercely defended reach in a day, taking 2/3rd of FOJ's fleet with them. Does it not count for them doing something?!


Like it or not buddy, Reach is canon, and if you're saying it isn't then you're very much in the wrong on the issue. Now you can dislike it all you want, I really don't care, and you can list inconsistencies all you want (I likewise don't care), but making baseless claims such as Reach is not canon, or you refuse to accept it as canon, it just makes you look dumb :/

Ok, first of all. Why the heck do you think SIIIs being on Reach is a problem? Any Spartan or Spartan Team, whether II or III, is deployed wherever the UNSC thought they were needed. Whether that be Earth, Pluto, Reach, Harvest, or whatever other planet you can think of, if the UNSC think they're needed there then you'll find Spartans there, no matter what class they are.

Yeah, a couple hours gives a grimace to me, but not because it's shocking for it to fall in that length of time (it is but for a completely different reason than yours). Reach completely falling in a couple hours is just completely ridiculous. It makes the UNSC forces look like a bunch bumbling and utter simpletons. The Covenant had about a 2:1 advantage over the UNSC ship wise, UNSC basically had half the Covenant's numbers, but the UNSC had the 20+ SMACs and the hundreds of ODPs around Reach. That brings the odds up to about even maybe swinging slightly in favor of the UNSC. Plus Humanity had all of its greatest minds at the Battle, such as Keyes, guys who could pull off victories against the Covenant even with inferior odds.

So really Reach falling in a couple hours is pretty ludicrous.

  • 05.12.2011 4:58 PM PDT

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