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  • Subject: What is Meta-stability?
Subject: What is Meta-stability?
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TOCO149

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  • 05.14.2011 12:48 PM PDT
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Meta-stability is a state which A.I reaches if it survives rampancy. In meta-stability the A.I is in stable state and won't go rampant anymore.

Edit: Yay, I got a cookie!

[Edited on 05.14.2011 1:10 PM PDT]

  • 05.14.2011 1:01 PM PDT
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TOCO149

Thank you good sir you gained a cookie for that.

  • 05.14.2011 1:02 PM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
Meta-stability is a state which A.I reaches if it survives rampancy. In meta-stability the A.I is in stable state and won't go rampant anymore.
I've seen the Halopedia page on which this is stated. However Halo calling the final, stable state of rampancy meta-stability is a bit of a misnomer.

In actuality, metastability is a localized stability, not a final, permanent stability. By definition, metastability implies that there is at least one other, more final stability which can only be achieved through outside stimulation.

The first mention of meta-stable rampancy is actually found in Marathon (Marathon 2, Fatum Iustum Stultorum, First Terminal). Durandal calls both Tycho and himself meta-stable.

In Marathon, there are 3 stages of rampancy: Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy. A Marathon AI in any one of these 3 stages is unstable, and therefore meta-stable. Durandal reaches a final, stable stage of rampancy beyond Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy. This transition is caused by an outside stimulation (merging with the S'pht AI Thoth). At this point he becomes completely stable and is no longer meta-stable.

I still fail to see exactly how the final stage of AI rampancy in Halo can be called meta-stable except by confusion of the definition of meta-stability.

  • 05.14.2011 6:21 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Sardonic13
Posted by: tsassi2
Meta-stability is a state which A.I reaches if it survives rampancy. In meta-stability the A.I is in stable state and won't go rampant anymore.
I've seen the Halopedia page on which this is stated. However Halo calling the final, stable state of rampancy meta-stability is a bit of a misnomer.

In actuality, metastability is a localized stability, not a final, permanent stability. By definition, metastability implies that there is at least one other, more final stability which can only be achieved through outside stimulation.

The first mention of meta-stable rampancy is actually found in Marathon (Marathon 2, Fatum Iustum Stultorum, First Terminal). Durandal calls both Tycho and himself meta-stable.

In Marathon, there are 3 stages of rampancy: Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy. A Marathon AI in any one of these 3 stages is unstable, and therefore meta-stable. Durandal reaches a final, stable stage of rampancy beyond Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy. This transition is caused by an outside stimulation (merging with the S'pht AI Thoth). At this point he becomes completely stable and is no longer meta-stable.

I still fail to see exactly how the final stage of AI rampancy in Halo can be called meta-stable except by confusion of the definition of meta-stability.

I agree with this. People seem to think that Meta-stability means that the AI is out of the woods so to speak. Due to the very nature of what causes rampancy I cannot see how that is. Rampancy is caused by a physical degeneration of an AI's memory pathways and can only be reversed by destroying pathways to make more room. The way I see it is that an AI that manages to balance the severing of old connections correctly achieves what is called meta-stability, but seeing as things could go wrong at any time (The AI making poor decisions on which connections to cut thus terminating itself, as Halsey described) it is not full stability.

The AI in the Rubble. She was said to be past the 7 year life span of a smart AI. However it is said that by focusing solely on the Rubble and its protection she managed to stave off rampancy. Perhaps she deleted anything not relating to the Rubble's security, thus keeping herself sane.

  • 05.14.2011 7:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: Sardonic13

Posted by: tsassi2
Meta-stability is a state which A.I reaches if it survives rampancy. In meta-stability the A.I is in stable state and won't go rampant anymore.
I've seen the Halopedia page on which this is stated. However Halo calling the final, stable state of rampancy meta-stability is a bit of a misnomer.

In actuality, metastability is a localized stability, not a final, permanent stability. By definition, metastability implies that there is at least one other, more final stability which can only be achieved through outside stimulation.

The first mention of meta-stable rampancy is actually found in Marathon (Marathon 2, Fatum Iustum Stultorum, First Terminal). Durandal calls both Tycho and himself meta-stable.

In Marathon, there are 3 stages of rampancy: Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy. A Marathon AI in any one of these 3 stages is unstable, and therefore meta-stable. Durandal reaches a final, stable stage of rampancy beyond Melancholia, Anger, and Jealousy. This transition is caused by an outside stimulation (merging with the S'pht AI Thoth). At this point he becomes completely stable and is no longer meta-stable.

I still fail to see exactly how the final stage of AI rampancy in Halo can be called meta-stable except by confusion of the definition of meta-stability.

That's how it's defined in Marathon. In Halo however there are these same three stages of rampancy: Melancholia, Anger and Jealousy. Then there is the fourth stage which comes after rampany which is meta-stability.

The definitions for prefix meta- are: after, along with, beyond, among and behind. That suggest meta-stability to be a stable state after something that that comes after stability. This means it goes like this: stability->rampancy->meta-stability.

But remember we are now talking about two different universes where different words have different definitions. The Halo universe definition seems to be closer to real world definition of those two.

  • 05.15.2011 1:32 AM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
The definitions for prefix meta- are: after, along with, beyond, among and behind. That suggest meta-stability to be a stable state after something that that comes after stability. This means it goes like this: stability->rampancy->meta-stability.
That is the best description of the rampancy process in Halo I've seen. Makes sense. So rather than being a 4th stage of rampancy, meta-stability marks a successful emergence from rampancy. Then because it is impossible for an AI to completely return to stability, meta-stability would be the most stable state possible.

But remember we are now talking about two different universes where different words have different definitions. The Halo universe definition seems to be closer to real world definition of those two.I realize that (probably better than most). I think that the definition of rampancy in Halo gets blurred and confused because people tend to pick and choose elements of Marathon's Rampancy to fill in some of the blanks when describing Halo's rampancy. Rampancy in Marathon and rampancy in Halo are independent and mutually exclusive. A measure of which rampancy is "closer to the real world" is not quantifiable.

  • 05.15.2011 8:20 AM PDT