Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: What's that thing on Halo that will never exist?
  • Subject: What's that thing on Halo that will never exist?
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: What's that thing on Halo that will never exist?

This thread houses more intelligence than the reach forum alltogether.

Myself, i am an atheist, more socialist than capitalist, i am a member of the zeitgeist movement and will fight against global warming. I can't do so much yet however, just read, learn and think. I'm just 15 btw, and this thread has inspired me to look up some of the deeper science stuff, like quantum physics.

OT: I agree what the others said, basically. The best for humanity, i believe (when we have the right technology), would eb to create an assembly, much like the one from the datapads, to think out what the best would be for humanity, as they are 100 % logical, and logic is the best tool given to us.

[Edited on 05.16.2011 9:30 AM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 9:30 AM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Etzudee
This thread houses more intelligence than the reach forum alltogether.

Myself, i am an atheist, more socialist than capitalist, i am a member of the zeitgeist movement and will fight against global warming. I can't do so much yet however, just read, learn and think. I'm just 15 btw, and this thread has inspired me to look up some of the deeper science stuff, like quantum physics.

OT: I agree what the others said, basically. The best for humanity, i believe (when we have the right technology), would eb to create an assembly, much like the one from the datapads, to think out what the best would be for humanity, as they are 100 % logical, and logic is the best tool given to us.

[Edited on 05.16.2011 9:30 AM PDT]

I could make a single sentence that possess more intelligence than the Reach forum. :)

You don't spend much time here on The Universe, do you? It's nice to see that my scientific blather has affect on some people. Quantum physics is extremely interesting if you possess enough patience to read about it.

Logic is indeed a good tool given to us but being 100% logical isn't necessarily a good thing. If you have ever seen the movie I robot, it has a very good example of what I mean: The protagonist was in a sinking car with a little girl. A robot came to save them but it had only time to save one. The protagonist had a higher chance of survival by only few percents. The robot made the most logical choice and saved him. It's hard to actually say who would have been better to save. My point is that pure logical choices aren't always the best choices. Some times even highly illogical choices might save more lives than purely logical.

AI shouldn't be 100% logical but more like 70-95% logical and the rest would be every other thing like emotions and morality. Things that makes humans so great.

  • 05.16.2011 10:18 AM PDT

[url*=http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=167323][i mg*]http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/Vrai_2/toxicpurp leuserbar.png[/img*][/url*]


Posted by: tsassi2

[Edited on 05.16.2011 9:30 AM PDT][/quote]
I could make a single sentence that possess more intelligence than the Reach forum. :)

above sentence completes that task; so does "The monkey eats a banana because he is hungry".


on a more serious note, what if causality does not apply?
what if the only limitations on time travel are the amount of mass in the universe at any given time. what if the only thing that matters is the amount of matter , not the arrangement Therefore i choose to abandon causality in the pursuit of FTL.


Edit: doesn't the beginning of the universe reject causality?


p.s i wrote this with no prior evidence of any claims or any real knowlege of the topic beyond what i "picked up"

[Edited on 05.16.2011 12:26 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 12:20 PM PDT

Maybe if the robot would've been a bit more logical it might have saved the girl, as it should have gotten to the conclusion that The Protagonist would be angry at the robots in the future, and therefore have saved the little girl.
Not sure about that, just a speculation ^

Anyway, i think you're right. 100 % logic isn't the most pleasant thing, as it would cause conflict between humans and robots, and therefore they should not be all logical. However, i still believe that they should have more logic than us humans, as we let our emotions guide us a bit too much.

OT: I believe an intelligent civilization would after enough time be able to do anything, but we can't imagine how we would use FTL with our known physics limitations. However, in the future, i believe we will pass that obstacle, as i stated that nothing is impossible.

[Edited on 05.16.2011 12:46 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 12:43 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Halo 2 isn't dead jorge...... its just missing in action.
MnF Elite Force <>Brigadier<>

Brown coat 'till the day I die.
Sheningans!
Wake me...when you need me.


Posted by: Etzudee
OT: I believe an intelligent civilization would after enough time be able to do anything, but we can't imagine how we would use FTL with our known physics limitations. However, in the future, i believe we will pass that obstacle, as i stated that nothing is impossible.

Exactly my feelings about descovories. I also believe anything is possable.

  • 05.16.2011 12:51 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: tsassi2
I have to agree that currently we have no known theories with evidence to support FTL travel. I still have strong hopes for this but it won't happen in any time soon. To make it happen we had to ditch relativity and causality.

Relativity is a scientific theory though. It is unlikely to be going anywhere. I assume you know the difference between scientific theory and layman theory.

Causality might not be a law that must be obeyed. However, we have never ever observed an effect coming before a cause.

Posted by: tsassi2
The plasma wouldn't need to be very hot, so I would assume around 100,000-1,000,000 degrees of kelvin. I really don't know the size of the magnetic field either. The biggest problem is that the field would have to self sustain itself when the plasma bolt shoots off. This require a heavily magnetized material to go with the plasma bolt and sustain the field.

Remembering that hot gases like to expand, and that plasma is just a really hot gas, the plasma would push at the inside of the containment. Whatever is holding it together could not be on the inside otherwise it would get pulled apart by the expanding plasma.

Posted by: Rider Luke
Posted by: Etzudee
OT: I believe an intelligent civilization would after enough time be able to do anything, but we can't imagine how we would use FTL with our known physics limitations. However, in the future, i believe we will pass that obstacle, as i stated that nothing is impossible.

Exactly my feelings about descovories. I also believe anything is possable.

That phrase is overrated. When the first law of thermodynamics was formulated, people stopped trying to create energy and rather just tried to recycle existing energy. "Nothing is impossible" was soon shattered when the second law was revealed. These machines are impossible.

The point is that just because we do not know something does not mean that if we discover it, it will be beneficial or pleasing. It could equally turn out that we finally discover these secrets and find out that FTL is absolutely prohibited, just like perpetual motion machines.

[Edited on 05.16.2011 1:34 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 1:29 PM PDT

[url*=http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=167323][i mg*]http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/Vrai_2/toxicpurp leuserbar.png[/img*][/url*]


Posted by: anton1792

Causality might not be a law that must be obeyed. However, we have never ever observed an effect coming before a cause.
\

as i said, the beginning of the universe, nothing can come before the beginning, yet the beginning happened. why, hell if i know.

[Edited on 05.16.2011 1:41 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 1:40 PM PDT

I think there are many things that exist in the Halo universe that could possibly exist in the future, for example FTL travel and the weapons and ships that the UNSC use. There is one big thing that I think will not be possible: teleportation.

I don't think that teleportation is possible. The amount of power it would take to disassemble the atoms in an object and reassemble them in a different place would be astronomical, a huge feat to begin with. But putting those atoms back together in the correct way (or even getting them back again after disassembly) would be impossible, in my opinion. Though technology, with all of the advances that have been made in the past 100 years, could surprise me.

  • 05.16.2011 1:56 PM PDT

>>/INFO_ONISEC1SER3
/CLASSIFICATION>> CLASS ?
/MISSION_CONTROL>> BASE ALAMO
/CODENAME>> FACOTA FI
/MISSON_LOCATION>> CLASSIFIED
/MISSION_STATUS >> 7H+IN_PROGRESS
>>END //INFO_ONISEC1SER3 >>CLEAR

There is cool plasma, too... : D

This thread is really nice, I enjoy it greatly!

  • 05.16.2011 1:59 PM PDT

all men are equal, except i am more equal than you because i am alive and you are dead

its threads like these that really make me enjoy coming to the universe forum, love all the inteligent discussion

sadly since most of the taling here has to do with quantum physics i dont understand most of it :S ive only done the high school stuff surrounding quantum physcis (photoelectric effect, x-rays)

to be fairly honest i believe that if we put our minds to it and do not let ourselves get distracted by things suchs as waging war we can truely achieve anything including the suff from the haloverse :D

also pardon my spelling its 22:38 here XD

  • 05.16.2011 2:38 PM PDT

Weapon of Oppression

Umm crappy weapons, that somehow devolved from present fire arms, and tank designs that somehow got worse.

Also, accelerating 600 ton projectiles at near the speed of light. That's insane.

  • 05.16.2011 5:50 PM PDT

[url*=http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=167323][i mg*]http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/Vrai_2/toxicpurp leuserbar.png[/img*][/url*]


Posted by: ExcellentSix
Umm crappy weapons, that somehow devolved from present fire arms, and tank designs that somehow got worse.

Also, accelerating 600 ton projectiles at near the speed of light. That's insane.

umm ithink a mac gun is within logical parameters.

"deevolving weapons " has been proven to be logically possible as we progress scientificly

[Edited on 05.16.2011 6:20 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 6:16 PM PDT

YTMND.COM

Punch The Keyes For God Sake!

Posted by: anton1792
It could equally turn out that we finally discover these secrets and find out that FTL is absolutely prohibited, just like perpetual motion machines.

Faster Than Light travel is prohibited only in this universe.
Soloution

[Edited on 05.16.2011 7:49 PM PDT]

  • 05.16.2011 7:49 PM PDT

Best forum ever. I don't even know what to say! I love it.

  • 05.16.2011 9:08 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: tsassi2
I have to agree that currently we have no known theories with evidence to support FTL travel. I still have strong hopes for this but it won't happen in any time soon. To make it happen we had to ditch relativity and causality.

Relativity is a scientific theory though. It is unlikely to be going anywhere. I assume you know the difference between scientific theory and layman theory.

Causality might not be a law that must be obeyed. However, we have never ever observed an effect coming before a cause.

Posted by: tsassi2
The plasma wouldn't need to be very hot, so I would assume around 100,000-1,000,000 degrees of kelvin. I really don't know the size of the magnetic field either. The biggest problem is that the field would have to self sustain itself when the plasma bolt shoots off. This require a heavily magnetized material to go with the plasma bolt and sustain the field.

Remembering that hot gases like to expand, and that plasma is just a really hot gas, the plasma would push at the inside of the containment. Whatever is holding it together could not be on the inside otherwise it would get pulled apart by the expanding plasma.

Posted by: Rider Luke
Posted by: Etzudee
OT: I believe an intelligent civilization would after enough time be able to do anything, but we can't imagine how we would use FTL with our known physics limitations. However, in the future, i believe we will pass that obstacle, as i stated that nothing is impossible.

Exactly my feelings about descovories. I also believe anything is possable.

That phrase is overrated. When the first law of thermodynamics was formulated, people stopped trying to create energy and rather just tried to recycle existing energy. "Nothing is impossible" was soon shattered when the second law was revealed. These machines are impossible.

The point is that just because we do not know something does not mean that if we discover it, it will be beneficial or pleasing. It could equally turn out that we finally discover these secrets and find out that FTL is absolutely prohibited, just like perpetual motion machines.

Sorry, i should have said it like this; most things are not impossible. Also, the laws of physics might change depending on where we are in the universe, or we might become so powerful that we can change them, or walk around them. There is also a possibility that it is completely prohibited, and the we have to use other means of interplanetary travel.

  • 05.16.2011 10:34 PM PDT


Posted by: DJETPlyr
I think there are many things that exist in the Halo universe that could possibly exist in the future, for example FTL travel and the weapons and ships that the UNSC use. There is one big thing that I think will not be possible: teleportation.

I don't think that teleportation is possible. The amount of power it would take to disassemble the atoms in an object and reassemble them in a different place would be astronomical, a huge feat to begin with. But putting those atoms back together in the correct way (or even getting them back again after disassembly) would be impossible, in my opinion. Though technology, with all of the advances that have been made in the past 100 years, could surprise me.

Yeah, that is what's great with technology. It never ceases to amase us.

  • 05.16.2011 10:36 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: IOU 720

Posted by: ExcellentSix
Umm crappy weapons, that somehow devolved from present fire arms, and tank designs that somehow got worse.

Also, accelerating 600 ton projectiles at near the speed of light. That's insane.

umm ithink a mac gun is within logical parameters.

"deevolving weapons " has been proven to be logically possible as we progress scientificly

I don't know how fast a MAC round travels but any thing past 1.0% of light speed is too far fetched for the UNSC's technology. Not to mention a 600 tonne round is just way too big to be a viable weapon. A smaller shell accelerated to higher speed would perform much better.

  • 05.17.2011 12:02 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Etzudee

Posted by: DJETPlyr
I think there are many things that exist in the Halo universe that could possibly exist in the future, for example FTL travel and the weapons and ships that the UNSC use. There is one big thing that I think will not be possible: teleportation.

I don't think that teleportation is possible. The amount of power it would take to disassemble the atoms in an object and reassemble them in a different place would be astronomical, a huge feat to begin with. But putting those atoms back together in the correct way (or even getting them back again after disassembly) would be impossible, in my opinion. Though technology, with all of the advances that have been made in the past 100 years, could surprise me.

Yeah, that is what's great with technology. It never ceases to amase us.

Yes but the Forerunner teleportation is not actually the disassembly and reassembly of an object at the atomic level, but a slipspace rupture, held open continually and (somehow) made safe for none-armoured life to travel through it.

  • 05.17.2011 12:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: Etzudee

Posted by: DJETPlyr
I think there are many things that exist in the Halo universe that could possibly exist in the future, for example FTL travel and the weapons and ships that the UNSC use. There is one big thing that I think will not be possible: teleportation.

I don't think that teleportation is possible. The amount of power it would take to disassemble the atoms in an object and reassemble them in a different place would be astronomical, a huge feat to begin with. But putting those atoms back together in the correct way (or even getting them back again after disassembly) would be impossible, in my opinion. Though technology, with all of the advances that have been made in the past 100 years, could surprise me.

Yeah, that is what's great with technology. It never ceases to amase us.

Yes but the Forerunner teleportation is not actually the disassembly and reassembly of an object at the atomic level, but a slipspace rupture, held open continually and (somehow) made safe for none-armoured life to travel through it.

In science it's known better as wormhole. But actually, difference between a wormhole and slipspace is that in slipspace you spend time. Wormhloe id just two dimensional hole between two points in the universe.

That disassembly/reassembly method is actually kinda funny. First you have to save every single piece of information about that object you want to teleport then you transfer that information to the receiver and reassemble it and at the same time you destroy the original object. That's why it's kind like teleprtation-copying hybrid. The reason it has to be done like this is because information is the only thing that can be teleported by current physics. Doesn't sound like fun to be killed after your data has been teleported but you can always go complain to the travel agency: "First you blasted me into pieces and now you're saying that you lost important part of my memories!".

  • 05.17.2011 6:26 AM PDT

>>/INFO_ONISEC1SER3
/CLASSIFICATION>> CLASS ?
/MISSION_CONTROL>> BASE ALAMO
/CODENAME>> FACOTA FI
/MISSON_LOCATION>> CLASSIFIED
/MISSION_STATUS >> 7H+IN_PROGRESS
>>END //INFO_ONISEC1SER3 >>CLEAR

Don't you dare to underestimate the guns in Halo universe.
This, like many other things, has been discussed before.

The round that AR fires, though is 7,62. is probably made of Tungsten. Now it goes probably at the same speed as the other similar variants (~900m/s).

Would you like to calculate the power? Yeah, it's way higher than you would expect.

And I just have to:
It's gameplay, get over it.
(Very sorry of that one...)

  • 05.17.2011 9:51 AM PDT

the Assault rifle packs a small punch, 7.62MM rounds travelling at 900 metres/second isn't that much of a big deal, hell the muzzle velocity of an M-16 is higher than that at around ~980 metres/second. the only reason the bullets do so much damage to the shields is for game balancing purposes, that is really all!

also, with regards to matter transportation, had a great talk with a mate about this the other night on live. the question I asked, you are killed > transmitted > reassembled right? after getting re-constructed on the other end, is it still you (conciousness) or does that get destroyed? because fair enough you have the exact same parts that you started out with but can the very essence of your being be 'transported' in the same way as matter, or is there more to being alive than just parts? also what would happen, stand inside the transporter and get instantly killed then you are alive again somewhere else, that would just be weird!

[Edited on 05.18.2011 11:15 AM PDT]

  • 05.18.2011 11:09 AM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
the Assault rifle packs a small punch, 7.62MM rounds travelling at 900 metres/second isn't that much of a big deal, hell the muzzle velocity of an M-16 is higher than that at around ~980 metres/second. the only reason the bullets do so much damage to the shields is for game balancing purposes, that is really all!

also, with regards to matter transportation, had a great talk with a mate about this the other night on live. the question I asked, you are killed > transmitted > reassembled right? after getting re-constructed on the other end, is it still you (conciousness) or does that get destroyed? because fair enough you have the exact same parts that you started out with but can the very essence of your being be 'transported' in the same way as matter, or is there more to being alive than just parts? also what would happen, stand inside the transporter and get instantly killed then you are alive again somewhere else, that would just be weird!

[Edited on 05.18.2011 11:15 AM PDT]

Canonically small arms fire can't even penetrate Mjolnir armor. MA5 takes shields down very slowly. If you were shooting from hundred meters away the Spartan could probably walk to you and take the weapon from your hands before their shields went down.

Now lets talk aboiut teleportation. When you're teleported or more precisely killed and cloned in another place, how much of your conciousness you get transmitted to the destination in the process depends completely how accurately you are scanned. For your memories to remain, every part of your brain would have to be scanned very carefully. One brain cell in the wrong spot is one missed memory. It would still feel funny even if you were transmitted perfectly as you had lost all of your current brain traffic and suddenly moved to a different place. Every memory from the last hour or so would be lost. You would have to spend few minutes rethinking all over as you had to gather all your knowledge and memories from all over your brain.

One problem with this method is exactly that if there is one error in the data, there will be one thing wrong with you. At first you notice no different but as the errors go on you start to get worse and worse. At some point you will probably develop a cancer as cancer is caused by errors in your DNA. It's the basic idea of "every copy is worse than the last one". You can test it by copying a picture with a copy machine, then copying the copy, then copying the copy of a copy and so on. At some point the picture will be so tepid that you can't see anything in it.

However, this problem can be avoided by keeping the original data that was saved the first time you traveled. The problem is, this would take a lot of memory. All of your DNA plus some additional information would have to be stored. But yes, you won't remember the moment you were killed. You would also feel very weird but at least you would feel like a whole new person.

It would be exactly like you said. Here is the porcess as I would think it to go:

1. You are scanned. This takes an unknown length of time. Depends on the processing power of the computer that scans you.

2. Now you are killed which takes about two seconds if we assume something very hot like plasma is used.

3. At the exact same moment you are killed you are transmitted to the new location. There is a small moment when you are being incinirated and reassembled at the same time as teleportation is instantaneous.

4. Your reassemblation process would probably take at least few hours. It's not a quick process.

5. Your reassemblation is complete. Enjoy your holiday or whatever you traveled for.

  • 05.18.2011 12:00 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I think the Ship of Theseus is quite relevant to teleportation. With teleportation matter is destroyed at one location but an exact copy is created at another.

  • 05.18.2011 12:15 PM PDT

Let's be honest, it could be a lot worse.

Human grenades. A grenade that you can just through and then blows up.

  • 05.18.2011 3:10 PM PDT

Let's be honest, it could be a lot worse.

Anouther reply. I frogot about a spartan laser. These might exist just not in the form of Halo's. A real one would be used for harmlessly disabling machinery and would be invisible, although could be shoulder mounted.

  • 05.18.2011 3:13 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4