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Subject: The Elite and Kat, why didn't he shoot twice?

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

So I noticed that when Kat is shot, Six is right next to her. Then he grabs her body and starts shooting.
Why didn't the Elite shoot Six? He would have killed him. Or maybe the Elite was making some statement? Like making them want to feel sad or maybe proving that demons can be killed.
Also I've heard people say the Elite was Thel' or that it was the Field Marshall of Reach.

  • 05.16.2011 11:00 PM PDT

Another question. Why were they so slow? I probably could have ran faster.

  • 05.16.2011 11:21 PM PDT

Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.

  • 05.16.2011 11:38 PM PDT
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All their shields were down because of the radiation from the glassing.
If I remember correctly, I think it was actually a skirmisher that shot her, and I think it evacuated via a phantom right after the shot to get away from the glassing. It probably had no time to kill the others.

  • 05.16.2011 11:41 PM PDT

Posted by: LOLSKUNK
All their shields were down because of the radiation from the glassing.
If I remember correctly, I think it was actually a skirmisher that shot her, and I think it evacuated via a phantom right after the shot to get away from the glassing. It probably had no time to kill the others.


Nahh, it was a Field Marshall, I saw the cutscene in 1080p, I know what I saw.

  • 05.16.2011 11:46 PM PDT

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?


Posted by: ImmortalJoshua
Or maybe the Elite was making some statement? Like making them want to feel sad.


By making rude hand gestures and commenting about the fact they are the worst collection of individuals since this seasons West Ham football team ?

  • 05.17.2011 12:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: LOLSKUNK
All their shields were down because of the radiation from the glassing.
If I remember correctly, I think it was actually a skirmisher that shot her, and I think it evacuated via a phantom right after the shot to get away from the glassing. It probably had no time to kill the others.


Nahh, it was a Field Marshall, I saw the cutscene in 1080p, I know what I saw.

Umm, Halo Reach is only 720p.

I still don't believe their shields were down because of glassing. Mjolnir is EMP proof. I believe the theory that Kat's helmet wasn't fully on and that's why the circuit which creates the shield wasn't complete.

  • 05.17.2011 6:52 AM PDT


Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

  • 05.17.2011 6:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

I haven't actually checked the cutscene after I heard that theory but at least it sounds more reasonable than the shield system getting damaged by the EMP. Especially when Mjolnir is EMP proof. Her shields would already have reloaded when she got shot. If whole Noble Team's shields were down why didn't the Elite just shoot all of them? Covenant are smart enough to kill every possible Spartan they can. This is why it leads me to believe that Kat put her helmet on in a hurry and it didn't seal completely.

  • 05.17.2011 7:13 AM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

I haven't actually checked the cutscene after I heard that theory but at least it sounds more reasonable than the shield system getting damaged by the EMP. Especially when Mjolnir is EMP proof. Her shields would already have reloaded when she got shot. If whole Noble Team's shields were down why didn't the Elite just shoot all of them? Covenant are smart enough to kill every possible Spartan they can. This is why it leads me to believe that Kat put her helmet on in a hurry and it didn't seal completely.


What I said is the armor wasn't damaged at all by EMP, the sheer massive spike in radiation due to be so close to the glassing beam caused the shields to overload (hence why you don't see Jun or Carter's shields start up)

Even if their shields were up, the Field Marshall wouldn't know it. My issue with the "Put it on but didn't seal it." thing is this. Kat put her helm on in a much more calm/controlled way then Carter or Jun, both who grabbed their helms and got them on before bolting to the elevators. She put her helm on in the safety of the ride down.

  • 05.17.2011 7:18 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

It's not a theory. You can clearly see the skin of her neck when she's in the elevator, meaning the suit wasn't sealed, so no shields.

  • 05.17.2011 7:20 AM PDT


Posted by: switch 104 sv
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

It's not a theory. You can clearly see the skin of her neck when she's in the elevator, meaning the suit wasn't sealed, so no shields.


Just watched the bit of the elevator, that looks like the grey bit that was around her neck, not her bare skin...

Either way, Both Carter AND Jun both put on their helms (meaning shields would activate then) and they didn't have the shield recharge effect going off. The suit would have automatically gone that, unless it required a manual reset/could not start up the shields :O.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 7:28 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 7:26 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: tsassi2
Especially when Mjolnir is EMP proof.

The reactive crystalline gel layer that powers the movement enhancing properties of the suit is, but either all the games retconned that or the shields aren't EMP proof.
For example, meleeing Sentinels in H2, or the PP or GL or AL in Reach.

My guess is that EMP disables the shielding, but not the armor itself. In other words, they were all shieldless during that cutscene. The Field Marshall should've shot them all. Would've been a much better ending to a horrible campaign.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 7:35 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 7:30 AM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: tsassi2
Especially when Mjolnir is EMP proof.

The reactive crystal layer that powers the movement enhancing properties of the suit is, but either all the games retconned that or the shields aren't EMP proof.
For example, meleeing Sentinels in H2, or the PP or GL or AL in Reach.

My guess is that EMP disables the shielding, but not the armor itself. In other words, they were all shieldless during that cutscene. The Field Marshall should've shot them all. Would've been a much better ending to a horrible campaign.


But then you'd -blam!- about a short campaign.

  • 05.17.2011 7:32 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
But then you'd -blam!- about a short campaign.

I'd rather have a campaign that doesn't suck to begin with, but when you're faced with one as awful as Reach's, cutting it off short would be a boon to the players.

I would complain about them being lazy with the campaign rather than just stupid.

  • 05.17.2011 7:40 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: tsassi2
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

I haven't actually checked the cutscene after I heard that theory but at least it sounds more reasonable than the shield system getting damaged by the EMP. Especially when Mjolnir is EMP proof. Her shields would already have reloaded when she got shot. If whole Noble Team's shields were down why didn't the Elite just shoot all of them? Covenant are smart enough to kill every possible Spartan they can. This is why it leads me to believe that Kat put her helmet on in a hurry and it didn't seal completely.


What I said is the armor wasn't damaged at all by EMP, the sheer massive spike in radiation due to be so close to the glassing beam caused the shields to overload (hence why you don't see Jun or Carter's shields start up)

Even if their shields were up, the Field Marshall wouldn't know it. My issue with the "Put it on but didn't seal it." thing is this. Kat put her helm on in a much more calm/controlled way then Carter or Jun, both who grabbed their helms and got them on before bolting to the elevators. She put her helm on in the safety of the ride down.

It took exactly thirty seconds from the EMP to Kat get killed. A time where their shields would have completely recharged unless they were broken and we know they weren't. While I rechecked the cutscene I also noticed that Kat's neck is exposed exactly at 2:29. You can clearly see a small part of her skin. The reason why she didn't completely seal her helmet is unknown. She had plenty of time to do it.

  • 05.17.2011 7:50 AM PDT

The sheer amount of radiation from the Glassing beam knocked all their shields out, so it could have easily been a different member of Noble Team that got shot. I think the Elite probably bugged out of there because taking down four Spartan who know where you are is a lot harder than sniping guys who are either unaware of a sniper or don't know where you're shooting from.

And no, I don't think that it's the Field Marshall from Winter Contingency, if it was they would have put more work into making him a major villain if he was supposed to be the primary antagonist. And there would be a lot of Field Marhsalls on Reach, it's not a rare rank or uncommon. So yeah, if the WC Marshall was supposed to be the main villain of the game there would have been more effort put in to make it obvious. Like they would have had something either happen to him on WC to make him look distinct and then thrown him into a few more levels.

  • 05.17.2011 7:54 AM PDT

another thing to support the theory of Kat's lack of situation awareness. the Electromagnetic interference didn't screw up the shields since it begins when they are upstairs talking to Holland, notice Noble Six and Emile, both fully suited up and I don't get the impression either Six or Emile are ones for deactivating their shields in a hostile environment. so if the EM disables the shield, why don't we see it? Six is standing in the camera view when the glassing starts and nothing to suggest his shield has failed. also that is indeed Kat's neck exposed, since you'll notice non of the other SPARTAN troopers have 'pinky' neck braces. I think she died due to a lack of awareness, possibly the reason she lost her arm as well?

also another thing worth noting, no chatter about 'shields aren't working, must be down to the EM interference...' or anything like that, think that would be the sort of information shared in that sort of situation...

Edit: also if you take Halo Wiki as a source, MJOLNIR armour is 'hardened against EMP and radiation...'

[Edited on 05.17.2011 8:06 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 8:00 AM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
It took exactly thirty seconds from the EMP to Kat get killed. A time where their shields would have completely recharged unless they were broken and we know they weren't. While I rechecked the cutscene I also noticed that Kat's neck is exposed exactly at 2:29. You can clearly see a small part of her skin. The reason why she didn't completely seal her helmet is unknown. She had plenty of time to do it.


*Sigh* You read EVERYTHING but the what I said about the shields. The EMP may have knocked it out, but the radiation would prevent them from turning the shields back on.

As for the "neck exposed" I blame that on modeling. We don't see Carter or Jun at that angle so we can't compare. Thing is, why would the helm be partly on, and why wouldn't it 'auto-seal'. Those sound like cheap lines personally...

I mean, every other time we see a helm put on, there is nothing beyond putting it on, why would Kat's require an extra thing?


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
also another thing worth noting, no chatter about 'shields aren't working, must be down to the EM interference...' or anything like that, think that would be the sort of information shared in that sort of situation...


Not really. I mean, the entire squad would be seeing the same thing. They would ALL know the reason (Hint, glassing beam, and radiation poured from it.)

Stating it out loud would be a waste of breath to Noble Team.

Edit: Plut, that doesn't mean standing near the sight of a glassing beam wouldn't overload the shield systems and disable them. That amount of radiation would be FAR beyond what could be considered 'hardened' against.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 8:11 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 8:10 AM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Kat's shield was down.

  • 05.17.2011 8:25 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

They should all be dead. 90 million R of radiation would literally decompose your entire body. 500 R spread across 5 hours will be fatal, never mind 90 million in one minute.

  • 05.17.2011 8:49 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
They should all be dead. 90 million R of radiation would literally decompose your entire body. 500 R spread across 5 hours will be fatal, never mind 90 million in one minute.


Even including protection from the armor?

  • 05.17.2011 8:58 AM PDT

depends entirely on what sort of radiation you are dealing with...there are numerous forms! an absolute ton of alpha radiation is harmless if you are behind a sheet of paper for example, yet will outright kill you and burn you if its touching you. beta radiation, can have an absolute ton of that as well, again it will kill you unless you are standing behind a wall for example, since it cannot penetrate the wall! alpha radiation can only travel around six centimetres in air before loosing all of its energy, cannot penetrate a piece of paper. gamma radiation can't be shielded against, it can be reduces but some always gets through, you'd think that is bad right? but its not since gamma radiation is bombarding your body right now, and your not dying? because it hardly ever interacts with anything, that is why you can't stop it! hell that is just for radioactive decay, there are loads more 'radiations' knocking about.

some instead of just throwing around the word 'radiation' please feel free to add just what sort of radiation, its pretty bleeding important to the whole argument what sort of radiation we are discussing.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 9:08 AM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 8:59 AM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: tsassi2
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Docterweegee
Kats helmet was not on all the way, she was the only one with out shields.


Yes, because you totally saw shields restart and form on Carter and Jun, who both put their helms on.

Note, glassing puts out a crapton of radiation, that'd be enough to overload the shield system and keep it offline, hence why NONE of Noble Team had shields.

Where did this "Didn't have helm on all the way." theory come from anyway? It sounds stupid...

I haven't actually checked the cutscene after I heard that theory but at least it sounds more reasonable than the shield system getting damaged by the EMP. Especially when Mjolnir is EMP proof. Her shields would already have reloaded when she got shot. If whole Noble Team's shields were down why didn't the Elite just shoot all of them? Covenant are smart enough to kill every possible Spartan they can. This is why it leads me to believe that Kat put her helmet on in a hurry and it didn't seal completely.


What I said is the armor wasn't damaged at all by EMP, the sheer massive spike in radiation due to be so close to the glassing beam caused the shields to overload (hence why you don't see Jun or Carter's shields start up)

Even if their shields were up, the Field Marshall wouldn't know it. My issue with the "Put it on but didn't seal it." thing is this. Kat put her helm on in a much more calm/controlled way then Carter or Jun, both who grabbed their helms and got them on before bolting to the elevators. She put her helm on in the safety of the ride down.

It took exactly thirty seconds from the EMP to Kat get killed. A time where their shields would have completely recharged unless they were broken and we know they weren't. While I rechecked the cutscene I also noticed that Kat's neck is exposed exactly at 2:29. You can clearly see a small part of her skin. The reason why she didn't completely seal her helmet is unknown. She had plenty of time to do it.


The EMP from the blast knocked their shields out, and then the shields were continuing to be bombarded by radiation keeping them from recharging.

I saw no exposed skin, and there is no specific way to seal a helmet, you just put it on and then bam, you're ready to go. What makes you think that there's a certain way to put it on or whatever?

  • 05.17.2011 9:00 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: tsassi2
It took exactly thirty seconds from the EMP to Kat get killed. A time where their shields would have completely recharged unless they were broken and we know they weren't. While I rechecked the cutscene I also noticed that Kat's neck is exposed exactly at 2:29. You can clearly see a small part of her skin. The reason why she didn't completely seal her helmet is unknown. She had plenty of time to do it.


*Sigh* You read EVERYTHING but the what I said about the shields. The EMP may have knocked it out, but the radiation would prevent them from turning the shields back on.

As for the "neck exposed" I blame that on modeling. We don't see Carter or Jun at that angle so we can't compare. Thing is, why would the helm be partly on, and why wouldn't it 'auto-seal'. Those sound like cheap lines personally...

I mean, every other time we see a helm put on, there is nothing beyond putting it on, why would Kat's require an extra thing?

Sorry, my bad. I misunderstood what you were saying about their shields. It sounds like a good explanation which I can't invalidate.

But Kat's exposed neck can't be just because of modeling. It's too well made to be a mistake. In this cutscene it's seen that Master Chief makes a twisting motion when putting on his helmet. You can also hear a clicking noise. You can also see same kind of twisting motion and hear the sound in this cutscene. It is unknown did Kat do this or not as when she puts her helmet on it's only shown for a moment and then it gets cut to the elevators going down. There is a chance that she left her helmet without sealing it.

  • 05.17.2011 9:00 AM PDT

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