Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Why didn't the UNSC use chemical weapons?
  • Subject: Why didn't the UNSC use chemical weapons?
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Why didn't the UNSC use chemical weapons?

Did the UNSC ever employ chemical weapons against the Covenant, and if not, why?

In everything I've read, the UNSC has focused exclusively on the nuclear side of WMD technology, but seem to forget about the other two, biological and chemical.

I believe there are numerous reasons why a biological attack against the Covenant would be pointless:The resources and time spent on developing a pathogen that was fatal to all member species of the Covenant would be incredible, the unpredictable nature of biological systems in general, the fact that a biological weapon is typically an offensive strategic weapon and the UNSC was mainly fighting a defensive tactical one

But a chemical weapon is cheap, easy to make, and is fairly predictable if you understand the basic technology.

First we need a little lesson on chemical weapons:

They can be deployed in a variety of ways. The simplest and earliest methods involved pointing cylinders filled with the gases at the enemy and opening the valve. The understanding of the weapons at that time was primitive, and it often caused the user as much trouble as the target. Today most gases are carried in various artillery munitions, or dropped by aircraft.

At their broadest they fall into two categories: Lethal and non-lethal. Non-lethal weapons include such common ones as CS, or tear gas, and pepper spray. More exotic ones include things like aerosols LSD or other hallucinogens. Typically they are employed in situation where you want to minimize damage, such as quelling riots, or they are used to cause casualties and chaos in the rear areas of an enemy's army. As such there is little chance the UNSC would employ them against the Covenant.

Lethal agents are what I would imagine the UNSC would primarily use. There are three main sub-types of lethals: Blood, blister and nerve. Blister agents are the most common, and the first type to be used in combat, on the battlefields of Europe in the 1st World War. Examples include chlorine and phosgene. They cause great damage to exposed skin, producing the blisters and chemical burns for which the type is named. If inhaled they cause severe damage to the lung tissues, causing the victim's lungs to fill with fluid, eventually causing them to drown from the inside. These gases are the least likely to be fatal, instead they are designed to cause casualties that tie up an army's resources. Seeing as every member species of the Covenant uses armour with exposed skin, and with the exception of Hunters and Drones, all breath using lungs, these weapons would likely be very effective across the board.

Blood agents are typically made from compounds including either cyanide or arsenic. They are absorbed by the lungs and enter the bloodstream. The compounds are then absorbed by the red blood cells, taking the place of the oxygen normally carried by these cells. The victims literally suffocate at the cellular level. Small concentrations can cause lightheadedness, dizziness and nausea. Large doses can be fatal in a matter of seconds. Seeing as every Covenant member species seem to breath an oxygen atmosphere like humans, it's very likely that blood agents would have a similar effect on them as it would a human. The exception to this is the Grunts, who breath a methane atmosphere and likely lack the hemoglobin that oxygen breathing species possess.

The last and most dangerous category is nerve agents, like VX, VR and Sarin. They work by interfering with the chemical processes necessary for the nervous system to function. They can enter the body either through the skin or the lungs. Skin exposure can be fatal in as little as two hours, inhalation can lead to death in minutes or less. Nerve agents also tend to be persistent, but more on that later. As
every race of the Covenant employs some form of nervous system, combined with the fact that they all either breathe or have exposed skin, makes these the ideal choice to use.

Like I said before, chemical weapons can also be classified as persistent or non-persistent. Non-persistent agents typically disperse or degrade quickly. These make them ideal for use on the battlefield, as they can be used and the territory taken from the enemy after a rather brief period. Non-persistent agents are typically oily and can remain on a surface for months if not removed. These are usually used at the strategic level on targets such as ammo dumps, motor pools, choke points and crossroads. As the UNSC was usually on the defensive, and on it's own soil, it is unlikely they would use persistent weapons.

The Covenant assault on the orbital defense generators on Reach is a perfect example. With adequate protection for the UNSC troopers stationed there, they could have easily dropped chemical weapons on the battlefield surrounding the generators, preventing the Covenant from reaching them.

  • 05.17.2011 1:26 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Wasn't there a recent thread asking this?


The mona lisa states they were going to combat the forced evolution the covenant forces have due to using plasma weapons, other than this we don't know.


even if they could it isn't like they had any where to release it.

  • 05.17.2011 1:29 PM PDT

I think I remember the thread you're talking about, and I recall it was about biological weapons, which I've commented on below.

Seems to me they could have dusted Cote d'Azure with nerve agent very easily, and achieved the same affect as the nuke, without the destruction. They might even have stopped the Hunters in the museum from sending their data.

And unlike nukes and biological weapons, chemical weapons are dirt cheap and easy to make. They could have quickly converted civilian chemical facilities to make weapons at the outbreak of the war.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 1:36 PM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 1:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Omanisat
Seems to me they could have dusted Cote d'Azure with nerve agent very easily, and achieved the same affect as the nuke, without the destruction. They might even have stopped the Hunters in the museum from sending their data.

And unlike nukes and biological weapons, chemical weapons are dirt cheap and easy to make. They could have quickly converted civilian chemical facilities to make weapons at the outbreak of the war.


chemical warfare is risky due to the chance of unknown effects both long term and short. even when you are Sure "this and this" won't happen "This" might end up going wrong.
Not to mention that they would probably have to test it on living subjects which would be hard to do.

  • 05.17.2011 1:36 PM PDT

Every WMD is risky, the same could be said about the way the UNSC detonates nukes willy-nilly all over the place.

Getting living subjects would only be hard if you wanted to get them into a lab and study the effect moment by moment. Seems to me that they could have covertly dropped some on a group of Covenant soldiers, then sit back and watch.

  • 05.17.2011 1:42 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I wondered about this too.

A few things though:

For Blood agents, does our weaponry not rely solely on the function of haemoglobin? All the Covenant races have various colours of blood, but Haemoglobin is red.

A lot of this still relies on what their anatomy and biochemistry is like. What is toxic to us might not be for them and vice versa. Still, that is something a little research could fix I guess.

Posted by: Omnisat
The Covenant assault on the orbital defense generators on Reach is a perfect example. With adequate protection for the UNSC troopers stationed there, they could have easily dropped chemical weapons on the battlefield surrounding the generators, preventing the Covenant from reaching them.

They would have eventually sent in units with fully sealed suits though.

  • 05.17.2011 2:07 PM PDT

Even if you rule out the blood agents, that still leaves the more potent nerve weapons, as well as the choking/blister agents.

The first waves of Covenant troops would experience heavy casulaties, as they wouldn't be aware of what's going on. It's possible they have never seen chemical weapons. They would therefor have to waste time bringing up supplies of protective equipment. The suits would also likely affect combat preformance, on the defenders yes but more so the attackers.

  • 05.17.2011 2:39 PM PDT

Haters guna hate - DTspinx117

they probubly tryed to its just that the cov. would just counter it. also it would not work with grunts they BREATH methan. (sorry about the spelling trying to type on an ipod touch)

  • 05.17.2011 3:01 PM PDT

Again, nuclear weapons=$$$, chemical weapons=$. A recurring theme in the books seems to be a lack of nuclear weapons where they're needed. They require specialists to build and very expensive components, whereas I could go make mustard gas in a 45 gallon drum in my garage right now.

And the Covenant have shown an aversion to change. In First Strike Cortana captures a Covenant ship by hacking it's computers and venting the atmosphere. Fred and Blue Team are able to do the exact same thing in Ghosts of Onyx because the Covenant didn't change their security protocols.

Finally, the grunts would likely be immune to a blood agent, they would still be vulnerable to a nerve or blister agent.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 3:12 PM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 3:08 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: grey101
Wasn't there a recent thread asking this?


The mona lisa states they were going to combat the forced evolution the covenant forces have due to using plasma weapons, other than this we don't know.


even if they could it isn't like they had any where to release it.


yeah, I made a thread a month ago asking why the UNSC didnt use biological/chemical weapons and a fair amount of people couldent see it.

  • 05.17.2011 3:15 PM PDT

I never said anything about biological weapons, to the contrary I argued against them. And if I was making a bioweapon, I'd make it highly infectios with a long incubation, therefore maximising spread.

You don't want a virus that can kill in a day, there are already much more effective methods of doing this. You would create a virus that would lie dormant in the target's body for a month or so, quietly spread with every breath, then it kills you.

  • 05.17.2011 3:49 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

In forge mode they have canisters of "VX7" nerve gas. Maybe they did deploy chemical weapons?

  • 05.17.2011 3:53 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Omanisat
I never said anything about biological weapons, to the contrary I argued against them. And if I was making a bioweapon, I'd make it highly infectios with a long incubation, therefore maximising spread.

You don't want a virus that can kill in a day, there are already much more effective methods of doing this. You would create a virus that would lie dormant in the target's body for a month or so, quietly spread with every breath, then it kills you.

You want a virus that kills in about a week or so, then infects others with the dead. Think black plague

  • 05.17.2011 3:54 PM PDT

You want long incubation and airborne transmission, maximizing exposure before detection.

  • 05.17.2011 3:57 PM PDT

KIWIZ RULE THE WORLD!

Its just that nobody knows it yet...

Using chemical weapons against their own planet?... that would be really demoralizing and could effect their own side. Bad example: if they wanted to attack all of the covenant it would have to be hugely variable between species putting humans at risk to.

Also it never says they don't. You just never hear of it happening the Human, Covenant war was fought on many planets... you never know.

  • 05.17.2011 4:24 PM PDT

But nuking your own planet wouldn't be demoralizing? If your house gets hit with a chemical weapon there's at least a chance that it can be decontaminated, but I'm pretty sure if it gets vaporized by a nuke you're SOL.

And the beauty of chemical weapons is they are effective against the basic biological functions of the body. Chlorine gas will burn organic material, regardless of whether it's human or alien.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 6:07 PM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 6:04 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Omanisat
Again, nuclear weapons=$$$, chemical weapons=$. A recurring theme in the books seems to be a lack of nuclear weapons where they're needed. They require specialists to build and very expensive components, whereas I could go make mustard gas in a 45 gallon drum in my garage right now.

And the Covenant have shown an aversion to change. In First Strike Cortana captures a Covenant ship by hacking it's computers and venting the atmosphere. Fred and Blue Team are able to do the exact same thing in Ghosts of Onyx because the Covenant didn't change their security protocols.

Finally, the grunts would likely be immune to a blood agent, they would still be vulnerable to a nerve or blister agent.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 3:12 PM PDT]

Not necessarily. Grunts have a very thick exoskeleton. Their lungs can't be affected either as they always use mathane masks which don't let anythnig through. Nerve agents would have to penetrate the exoskeleton which they can't do. Grunts are invulnerable to chemical attacks.

We also don't know how Elite shielding affects to gases. Or actually we know. All the Elites would have to do is to turn their shields on maximum power and then they would have some time to get out before their air runs out. They could probably get a Phantom to pick them up very quickly.

Chemical attacks are just way too uncertain to be used. Besides, you can't use them in space. Nukes were usually only needed for space combat.

  • 05.17.2011 8:06 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: tsassi2
Not necessarily. Grunts have a very thick exoskeleton. Their lungs can't be affected either as they always use mathane masks which don't let anythnig through. Nerve agents would have to penetrate the exoskeleton which they can't do. Grunts are invulnerable to chemical attacks.

Eyes. I would imagine that Chlorine would be right tear jerker.
_____________________________________________________________ ____________

It is not really known whether or not Elites have oxygen reserves in their suits. Obviously some would, like the Ranger Elites but it is doubtful if the others did given the armours openness around the face.

  • 05.17.2011 8:15 PM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
Posted by: Omanisat
Again, nuclear weapons=$$$, chemical weapons=$. A recurring theme in the books seems to be a lack of nuclear weapons where they're needed. They require specialists to build and very expensive components, whereas I could go make mustard gas in a 45 gallon drum in my garage right now.

And the Covenant have shown an aversion to change. In First Strike Cortana captures a Covenant ship by hacking it's computers and venting the atmosphere. Fred and Blue Team are able to do the exact same thing in Ghosts of Onyx because the Covenant didn't change their security protocols.

Finally, the grunts would likely be immune to a blood agent, they would still be vulnerable to a nerve or blister agent.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 3:12 PM PDT]

Not necessarily. Grunts have a very thick exoskeleton. Their lungs can't be affected either as they always use methane masks which don't let anything through. Nerve agents would have to penetrate the exoskeleton which they can't do. Grunts are invulnerable to chemical attacks.

We also don't know how Elite shielding affects to gases. Or actually we know. All the Elites would have to do is to turn their shields on maximum power and then they would have some time to get out before their air runs out. They could probably get a Phantom to pick them up very quickly.

Chemical attacks are just way too uncertain to be used. Besides, you can't use them in space. Nukes were usually only needed for space combat.


Not true, if that were the case insects would be immune to blister agents as well. The corrosive gases will eat through exoskeletons just as easy as flesh. The same goes for a nerve agent. An exoskeleton isn't one solid piece, it's more like a knight's set of armour, many pieces that fit together. And there's always the eyes.

Elite shield's can't be completely impermeable to gases, otherwise the would suffocate in their little bubble. And that would require them to have prior knowledge of human gases and their properties. Likely the first indication they would get that something was wrong was when they couldn't breath anymore. It takes less then a gram of VX or Sarin to kill in under 30 seconds.

As for nukes, there are plenty of occasions where they are used groundside, like Cote d'Azure, or when Fred's team attacked that cruiser during the Fall of Reach. A few arty shells filled with a fast-acting agent lobbed into the depression where the Covenant were massing could have saved a Spartan's life.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 8:26 PM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 8:22 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: tsassi2
Not necessarily. Grunts have a very thick exoskeleton. Their lungs can't be affected either as they always use mathane masks which don't let anythnig through. Nerve agents would have to penetrate the exoskeleton which they can't do. Grunts are invulnerable to chemical attacks.

Eyes. I would imagine that Chlorine would be right tear jerker.
_____________________________________________________________ ____________

It is not really known whether or not Elites have oxygen reserves in their suits. Obviously some would, like the Ranger Elites but it is doubtful if the others did given the armours openness around the face.

They could still reserve some air between their body and shields. With it they could survive at least ten minutes which is a lot of time. As for Grunts. Their eyes are the only possible place that could be affected but even then they wouldn't get killed.

If UNSC used chemical weapons, Covenant would be pretty quick to learn to counter that. All Elites would use Ranger styled suits and Grunts would use the Ultra suits we have seen in Halo Reach. They cover the Grunt's eyes completely. Other species would get something similar too.

Posted by: Omanisat
Not true, if that were the case insects would be immune to blister agents as well. The corrosive gases will eat through exoskeletons just as easy as flesh. The same goes for a nerve agent. An exoskeleton isn't one solid piece, it's more like a knight's set of armour, many pieces that fit together. And there's always the eyes.

Elite shield's can't be completely impermeable to gases, otherwise the would suffocate in their little bubble. And that would require them to have prior knowledge of human gases and their properties. Likely the first indication they would get that something was wrong was when they couldn't breath anymore. It takes less then a gram of VX or Sarin to kill in under 30 seconds.

As for nukes, there are plenty of occasions where they are used groundside, like Cote d'Azure, or when Fred's team attacked that cruiser during the Fall of Reach. A few arty shells filled with a fast-acting agent lobbed into the depression where the Covenant were massing could have saved a Spartan's life.

Grunt exoskeleton is thick. Chemicals don't penetrate them very easily. Places where the plates are combined are the only vulnereable place. This would save the Grunts only with minor injuries. The exoskeleton would definitely make the chemicals' work harder.

As for Elites. If they saw the gas cylinder opening they could probably figure it out but everyone who didn't see it would probably be dead.

Nukes are used on ground operations some times but the reason they ran out is because they're the most effective weapon in space combat. And as I said, Covenant would learn to cover themsleves from chenical attacks. Downside with chemical attacks is that you can cover your body making them totally useless.

[Edited on 05.17.2011 8:41 PM PDT]

  • 05.17.2011 8:28 PM PDT

Unless the shield is going to come with it's own filter, all they are going to do is inhale a bubble of contaminated air. And a nerve agent will most certainly kill you if it gets in through your eyes.

And the Covenant don't learn anything. After all the times Cortana hacked their systems you'd think they would learn to protect their computers better, but the didn't. Their technology is based on the Forerunners and therefore is perfect. To suggest any changes or modification is blasphemy.

  • 05.17.2011 8:33 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Elites suits are not airtight, that is why we have the rangers to operate in 0-gs and also it was part of the treaty at the end of their war with the prophets, I dont remember why though.

Also they have like that other dude said, nerve gas canisters in forge....

  • 05.17.2011 8:38 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

And the ONI AI in fall of reach (i think) threatened to gass Halsey to death

  • 05.17.2011 8:39 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2