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Subject: UNSC Defence - with hindsight...

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?

We all know the gallant stories of the UNSC fleets engaging the Covie's in orbit, both fleet to fleet and with the ODP's.. but looking back at the series how would you of organised the defences against the Covie Armada ?

Picture yourself as a Fleet Admiral - what would you do and why ?

...or alternatively, how would you defend yourself (using combat data) against further Covie assaults in space ?

Would the MAC guns be better suited based on the ground, fired into orbit - with their energy generator systems buried underground ? Would the defence of Reach of lasted longer, or would it have solved one problem and created many others ?

Questions..questions..

  • 05.19.2011 5:42 AM PDT

I would organise the whole military differently. This is a summary of my plan that I cannot be arsed typing out here.

* Mobilise a smaller, yet more effective fleet. More research and funds into less ships. Overall creating a fleet of "PoA" upgraded ships. Much more effective in the long run.

* Create a pre-established evacuation plan for every system. Every battle would be a tactical retreat.

* Deploy special warfare units on populated planets. Submarines, UAV/UGV/USVs, buried nuclear ordinance, unamnned stealth MACs/mines placed in system.

All this would accompany a new tactical and strategiec plan.
The UNSC Navy, ONI and Marines would be tasked with offensive operations. Finding and attacking priority targets and targets of opportunity.

The UNSC navy and Army would be taasked with evactuating besieged planets and organising civilian escape.
They would also enact a "Scorched Earth" policy on any attacked world. Making it more trouble that its worth for the Covenant to attack while increasing their, and reducing our overall losses.


Earth's and Reach's defense would be done pretty much the same, although it would leave the UNSC in a much better position and could even have prevented the Fall of Reach entirely. Whether this is good or bad is debatable.

  • 05.19.2011 6:09 AM PDT
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If we are talking about the battle of Reach:

I would have placed the orbital SMAC generators underground and built a huge fortress above them. In emergency situation there would have been lots of few meters thick titanium doors that shut once the fortress above was losing. They could only be opened by someone highly classified. In case of attack I would have placed few Firgates nearby to destroy any ship that tried to dig to the ground.

That way it would have taken a lot longer for Covenant to get there. Now the rest would have been pretty similar. There could maybe have been few more SMACs on the orbit. Even if it had lowered the amount of ships in the fleet. In a defense situation SMAC is ten times more useful as a ship.

That could maybe had made the fight last a bit longer and killed much more fromt he Covenant fleet but the case with Reach was pretty much hopeless. There was no way to save the planet.

  • 05.19.2011 6:13 AM PDT

What a waste....

I like rotary cookie's idea, and I'll add to it:

*There should be a HORNET minefield around the edges of every system

*Put more moniez into the navy.

  • 05.19.2011 6:23 AM PDT

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?


Posted by: RotaryCookie
I would organise the whole military differently. This is a summary of my plan that I cannot be arsed typing out here.

* Mobilise a smaller, yet more effective fleet. More research and funds into less ships. Overall creating a fleet of "PoA" upgraded ships. Much more effective in the long run.

* Create a pre-established evacuation plan for every system. Every battle would be a tactical retreat.

* Deploy special warfare units on populated planets. Submarines, UAV/UGV/USVs, buried nuclear ordinance, unamnned stealth MACs/mines placed in system.

All this would accompany a new tactical and strategiec plan.
The UNSC Navy, ONI and Marines would be tasked with offensive operations. Finding and attacking priority targets and targets of opportunity.

The UNSC navy and Army would be taasked with evactuating besieged planets and organising civilian escape.
They would also enact a "Scorched Earth" policy on any attacked world. Making it more trouble that its worth for the Covenant to attack while increasing their, and reducing our overall losses.


Earth's and Reach's defense would be done pretty much the same, although it would leave the UNSC in a much better position and could even have prevented the Fall of Reach entirely. Whether this is good or bad is debatable.


Some good ideas, however I do believe that if the SMAC's were stationed on the ground using AI targetting to hit ships in orbit and further then potentially more nuclear weapons could of been utilised in space without hte EMP damaging the SMAC stations.

100% agree that the generators need to be underground - didn't any of the UNSC watch the Empire Strikes Back, taking inspiration on placing generators above ground !

  • 05.20.2011 12:06 AM PDT

RotaryCookie gave me A lot of inspiration.

A fleet? Well I would focus mainly on Frigates, cheap, but are basically mobile MAC guns. That would be my main priority, arm them with another MAC turret under the main. Increase the armor of the Frigates overall. End production of all other classes of UNSC vessels aside from a few cases and a specially designed Super Carrier which serves at the Capital ship.

With the money they spent on Home Fleet of Earth to build all those various ships, I could have made over 300 Frigates. Sure they might not be able to take that many hits but I would have a convoy system, No Frigate is ever alone, EVER. It will always have 3-5 other Frigates.

Now if it were Reach and I had to use the canon resources, I would station all ships on defensive positions on the SMAC's, if they are at risk, put anything in the way to stop the SMAC's from getting hit, even if it's a Halcyon class cruiser. Nothing must hit those stations. On the ground I would deploy all manpower to defend the generators. Assist those Spartans II's.

Once the Covenant fleet begin their advance, I would do the exact same plan Hitler had in mind during the Battle of the Bulge. I would have had 30 Ships out of system and have them make a jump directly behind the fleet and fire from the rear, once they turn to face the 30 ships, I would have my defending ships advance forward and hit them with everything I have.

By this point they would be surrounded. I will have less ships, around 100 facing 250 after the hours of SMAC hell on the Covenant fleet. I would have a system of Fireships. Armed to the teeth with Nuclear explosives sent in and suicide that is automatically controlled.

If I had a NOVA at disposal I would use it. If not, I would begin a MAC attack on all Covenant ships. Get their shields down launch all the Nuclear weapons I have on them with continuous fire from 70mm or 120mm turrets on the ships. I would have all my ships moving in a circle around the Covenant fleet, keep the fleet moving to avoid fire from the Covenant. A blockade covering all vectors.

I will just watch, the defending fleet and the 30 ships will meet as they go around the fleet and continue firing. The SMAC's would continue firing. By the end of the day I would have obliterated the Covenant fleet with at most 80 ships lost.

Similar to Hitler's plan for the Bulge counter attack.

  • 05.20.2011 12:27 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Just to clarify something, SMAC generators couldn't be underground due to the signal being interrupted to the station.

  • 05.20.2011 1:18 AM PDT

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Just to clarify something, SMAC generators couldn't be underground due to the signal being interrupted to the station.


If the Smacs were on the ground and linked directly - there shouldn't really be a problem

I don't belive that the entire generator system and complex needs to be above ground to send energy towards orbit - perhaps just a transmitter needs to be above ground, with the rest buried into the ground ?

  • 05.20.2011 1:28 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Richomack360

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Just to clarify something, SMAC generators couldn't be underground due to the signal being interrupted to the station.


If the Smacs were on the ground and linked directly - there shouldn't really be a problem

I don't belive that the entire generator system and complex needs to be above ground to send energy towards orbit - perhaps just a transmitter needs to be above ground, with the rest buried into the ground ?


But that'd be the same as having the generators above ground, if they take it out then the SMAC is out of the game.

  • 05.20.2011 1:30 AM PDT


If the Smacs were on the ground and linked directly - there shouldn't really be a problem


Wouldn't they be be very difficult to aim?

  • 05.20.2011 2:15 AM PDT

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?


Posted by: katamariguy

If the Smacs were on the ground and linked directly - there shouldn't really be a problem


Wouldn't they be be very difficult to aim?


With AI backing I am sure they could still do the trick ?

  • 05.20.2011 4:06 AM PDT

And this is why we need a Halo space RTS

  • 05.20.2011 5:16 AM PDT

grounding the S-MAC makes it tactically inflexible, since there is no way in hell you could turret the thing, having them built into a station at least gives them the ability to change the orientation of the station. the only problems S-MAC platforms have is lack of defensive batteries and relying on ground based power generation, so would also opt to bury the generators with just the transmitter on the surface, with large amounts of defensive emplacements. the only other problem they have, they have no real defence against single ships and boarding craft which makes the platforms themselves extremely vulnerable to being boarded and disabled, the solution is to give them heavyweight anti-aircraft armament.

also a huge fan of un-manned vehicles, been sketching and designing a prototype 'drone carrier' for use against Covenant warships, by overwhelming them with huge numbers of automated drones (hundreds of them!). also devised a S-MAC ship as well for taking out those hard targets that you need to go bye bye.

on the ground, a more effective tank is a must! the Scorpion is great because it can transported around by Pelican, but would recommend the use of armoured vehicles too heavy to transport for defence of things like S-MAC generators, think mobile fortresses with huge armament, think the P.1000 from World War II that Hitler had on the drawing boards, a 1,500 ton tank! also concealed turrets, hidden in armoured bunkers which will be undetectable until they pop-up and start firing. also chuck more Cobra anti-armour vehicles into the mix to take out those annoying Wraith tanks and drop-ships before they become an issue, my plans on defence of human installations require no use of SPARTAN troopers and is heavily vehicular.

  • 05.20.2011 5:18 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

I would have abandoned the spartan project. Honestly, there is no way the UNSC could have known that spartans would be as effective as they were. Every time they were deployed, they could easily have been glassed.

As for my strategy, I would use the existing fleet to engage in hit and run maneuvers all along the Covenant-Human border. These attacks would be designed to distract and stall the Covnenant and lead them false objectives while the UNSC develops and builds more powerful starships capable of competing directly with a Covenant warship. So long as the Covenant have superiority in orbit, the UNSC is helpless.

  • 05.20.2011 5:21 AM PDT

hit and run doesn't work against Covenant ships though! they are too powerful to engage with small, mobile forces, they have to be engaged by overwhelming amounts of fire to have a chance of taking them out, or else you'll just be wasting your assets. plus the fact that Covenant ships are faster, makes hitting and running a difficulty proposition!

with regards to the SPARTAN-II project, if anything I think it should have been given more funding, more support due to the fact that they were so effective against the Covenant, SPARTAN teams were meant for special forces missions, not attached to other military forces, things like destroying Covenant assets with small teams or large scale missions like that attack on the shipyard. they needed more help, more specialised equipment and weapons, more specialised transport and ships to get them to destinations, I think that could have made a huge difference if the SPARTAN-II project was giving full backing and equipment specialised for special operations was developed for them. also let them function 'off the record...' if you will, with no interference by outside forces, they were smarter than normal humans so want a way to damage the Covenant, ask them for input!

[Edited on 05.20.2011 5:36 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 5:32 AM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer

I would merge the ODST program with the Spartan III program (E.G giving ODST's SIII armour which is cheap) and put much more money in SIII projects on earth and other inner colonies, hoping to have a few hundred thousand SIII's by the time the covenant arrive to reach and whatnot.

I would split up the UNSC fleet into two sections - Offensive (which would sport Heavy, highly armed and sturdy ships like the POA for offensive operations) and Defensive (Which would be cheaper ships like frigates, and a new kind of ship that would be armed with several MAC cannons but would have no Slip-space drive and a sub-par engine, similar to a SMAC platform - but far cheaper)


And finally, I would put a NOVA bomb on each of the inner colony planets, so when all is lost we still have the chance to take down all the covenant on the planet before retreating.

  • 05.20.2011 6:04 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

True, but the point of the hit and run attacks isn't for victory. It's a sacrifice. Those ships normally have no chance, so losing a fleet defending a planet serves no purpose. But if you can lead a covenant battlegroup on a chase to a system of no value, then the attacks are justified, as it will be that much longer before they find and attack another colony.

Existing Spartans would be kept, but the Spartans, even the Spartan III's were not nearly enough to turn the tide of the war. Even with Spartan deployments, planets were being steadily lost, with very little visible impact on the Covenant.
They were ineffective. Developing better weapons and starships should have taken priority. The point of the hit and run attacks is to give the UNSC more time to do just that.
Once a new weapon or new vessel is designed, tested, and fielded, all the lives lost in the attacks would be justified.

Humanity, and the UNSC, lucked out with the Spartans and Halo. If the events of Halo hadn't taken place, Humanity would have surely lost, John and all the other Spartans would have died. There is no two ways about it. The extraordinary events on Halo, such as the release of the Flood, made it possible for John to defeat the Covenant, destroy Halo, and radically alter the Covenant's objectives.
Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
hit and run doesn't work against Covenant ships though! they are too powerful to engage with small, mobile forces, they have to be engaged by overwhelming amounts of fire to have a chance of taking them out, or else you'll just be wasting your assets. plus the fact that Covenant ships are faster, makes hitting and running a difficulty proposition!

with regards to the SPARTAN-II project, if anything I think it should have been given more funding, more support due to the fact that they were so effective against the Covenant, SPARTAN teams were meant for special forces missions, not attached to other military forces, things like destroying Covenant assets with small teams or large scale missions like that attack on the shipyard. they needed more help, more specialised equipment and weapons, more specialised transport and ships to get them to destinations, I think that could have made a huge difference if the SPARTAN-II project was giving full backing and equipment specialised for special operations was developed for them. also let them function 'off the record...' if you will, with no interference by outside forces, they were smarter than normal humans so want a way to damage the Covenant, ask them for input!

  • 05.20.2011 6:31 AM PDT

big fan of the idea of using NOVA bombs for Scorched Earth style tactics, the amount of damage you could do to Covenant forces with a tactic like that is unbelievable, would also make them start to think twice about attacking bigger human worlds or at least make the much more cautious. think psychological warfare can play a big part in wars like that, the Covenant view humanity as primitive and weak yet a NOVA explosion, destroying thousands of their ground assets, hell maybe even some naval assets might make them start to 'respect' humanity.

would also (for the terror aspect) be tempted to bring back incendiary bombing, like napalm used in Vietnam. it would destroy the morale of Grunts especially to see tons of their comrades scorched by this sort of weapon, also mines, what is wrong with mines, they are lethal and horrible horrible weapons, again demoralising invading forces. all of the 'military' worlds as well would be much better prepared to repel invasion, with a lot of underground facilities and tunnel networks for guerilla style warfare with nuclear ordnance stored for this sort of conflict.

  • 05.20.2011 6:32 AM PDT

It is possible to commit no errors and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.

Posted by: chickenlittle
Cheeto is the only one among you that doesn't suck.

The only problem is that the NOVA was developed extremely late in the war, too late to be deployed effectively. By the time it was done, the only planets left were heavily populated inner colonies and Earth. So unless the reason it was developed so late was lack of funding or not enough researchers, NOVA isn't a real game changer.
Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
big fan of the idea of using NOVA bombs for Scorched Earth style tactics, the amount of damage you could do to Covenant forces with a tactic like that is unbelievable, would also make them start to think twice about attacking bigger human worlds or at least make the much more cautious. think psychological warfare can play a big part in wars like that, the Covenant view humanity as primitive and weak yet a NOVA explosion, destroying thousands of their ground assets, hell maybe even some naval assets might make them start to 'respect' humanity.


[Edited on 05.20.2011 6:41 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 6:41 AM PDT

Have you seen my mind anywhere? I seem to have lost it...

0x0 x0x 0x0 000 000 x0x 000
x0x 0x0 0x0 0xx 000 0x0 000
x0x x0x x00 0xx 0x0 x0x 0x0

I have seen you future

Posted by: Richomack360
I do believe that if the SMAC's were stationed on the ground using AI targetting to hit ships in orbit and further then potentially more nuclear weapons could of been utilised in space without hte EMP damaging the SMAC stations.

Two words for you: air resistance

First, it would create so much heat that it would basically render the weapon inoperable. conventional railguns, which fire projectiles at much lower speeds than we saw with the SMAC platforms, already turn the air in the barrel into plasma, meaning that barrels are worn out too fast for mass deployment. An ODP would have an even worse time with the problem since they are accelerating the projectile to much higher speeds than the railgun.

The second problem is loss of velocity. As the MAC round accelerated up through the atmosphere it would be slowed down by air resistance. Less velocity = less kinetic energy = less power.

[Edited on 05.20.2011 12:31 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 6:58 AM PDT

I would fight realizing that Humanity is fighting for the survival of the species.

Ok, first, the Spartan III program proved that the average person could be turned into a super soldier. Everyone capable of of putting boots ground in my military would be augmented. No exceptions. SPI armor becomes standard issue for marines and army.

Gunpowder weapons will be abandoned. Except for shotguns. Shotguns will not fire pellets, but flechettes (think shrapnel shotguns). They will also not be pump action, but fully automatic. Street sweeper shrapnel throwers. Gauss rifle style weapons will be the standard issue rifle, negating the need for "anti-vehicle" weapons (like rocket launchers) and giving my troops the range advantage. This will also greatly simplify supply lines and ammo production since metal slugs are easy to make. The weapons in halo are designed for normal humans, all of my forces will be augmented and be able to carry larger weapons and more ammo. To save weight, gauss projectiles will be small, probably only 9mm and needle-like. The high speed of the projectile will let physics take care of the damage.

The covenant's main advantage is their tech. Strip them of their ships and they lose. How to do this? EMP weapons. The covenant have shown no resistance to it. Indeed, plasma pistol overcharges stop covie vehicles in their tracks. Not even forerunner tech has resisted EMP. This is going to sound funny, but my ships would use the noob combo. Directed EMP weapons, followed by MAC blasts. Leave no survivors to report what happened.

Cloaked mines around planets. HORNET mines. 30 megaton nuclear mines who's warheads can be deactivated in corridors so my ships can leave when the planet is not under attack. Covies have shown no indication that they can see through cloaking devices. UNSC has access to that tech.

As part of the Cole Protocol, any and all ships or planets about to be destroyed with no hope of victory self destructs.... with the largest nuclear weapon available. If he covies are beating you, they're going to eliminate everyone anyway. Might as well take as many as you can with you.

From the sources I've seen, the civilian population seem to go on like nothing has changed. ONI keeps people in the dark about what is going on. That doesn't fly with me. I show the people what kind of enemy we're fighting, what the stakes are. Propaganda will be used to turn Harvest into another Pearl Harbor, and the alien nature of well, the aliens will be mocked Starship Trooper style to lessen the fear factor. Martial law will be declared.

Everyone contributes, NO EXCEPTIONS. People between the ages of 17-50 are immediately drafted. If you aren't picking up a weapon, you're building them. Every resource available is used to fight the Covenant. Rationing is put into effect.

Use ONI to figure out Covie supply lines. Use put stealth tech on drone bombers and ships, and have them lie in wait for ambushes. This will force the covenant to spread their fleets out, then divide and conquer. Large deployments of covenant ships will be nuked. Covenant settlements will be nuked. Covenant shipyards will be nuked. Covenant production facilities will be... you guess it, nuked. I make it a special point to find the Prophet's actual home world an NOVA bomb it until it's rubble floating in space.

No weapons are off limits. Biological, chemical weapons will be used prolifically.

I would make the war with the covenant so horrible they would never think of attacking humanity again.



[Edited on 05.20.2011 10:34 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 10:15 AM PDT

You missed the part about disclosure didn't you? The Inssurectionists were angry because of interference from the UNSC for the sake of interference. Saying to the general population "Hey look, the aliens want to kill us all" will motivate people. Remember the mass volunteering at the start of WWII?

SPI armor is not expensive, in fact it was given to most Spartan III's as an inexpensive alternative to MOLJNIR armor and is comparable to ODST armor, with some extra perks, like a tactical cloak. It was cheap enough to be given to SIII's, who were then sent on suicide missions.

Street-sweeper style shotguns do exhist today and are mass produced., mass producing them instead of assault rifles or sniper rifles wouldn't be that big a leap. During World War II, car factories were converted to make tanks. It's not that hard.

A gauss rifle is essentially a metal tube with powerful magnets arranged down the length to propel a cheap metal slug. The expensive piece would be the power supply, but marines carry a fusion pack around as standard equipment, so clearly not that expensive.

The Spartan II's were career soldiers because the augmentation process was horribly invasive, turned them into cyborgs, and made them sterile. The SIII process was completely biological. They can still breed. Have a somewhat normal life. The downside is they would be larger in size. Whoopdie do.

[Edited on 05.20.2011 11:16 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 11:11 AM PDT

What about it is wrong?

The moral aspect of it? I opened up with fighting to save the species for a reason.

Using EMP weapons? British police developed a hand held directed emp weapon in 2007 to stop high speed chases before they start.

Obviously, the tactics the UNSC were using weren't working.
Thus, what is of supreme importance in war is to attack the enemy's strategy.
-Sun Tzu

The plan I came up with is the result of mobilizing as many people as I could for a mass war. It's not that unreasonable and has been done twice before in our history. The main advantage the Covies have is their ships, you have to negate that ability or you get glassed.

Confront them with annihilation, and they will then survive; plunge them into a deadly situation, and they will then live. When people fall into danger, they are then able to strive for victory.
-Sun Tzu

In other words, people rise to a challenge.

Propaganda does work, even today, where supposedly we're all too smart for it. If you don't believe me, look at our political system.

Personally, I think the reason humanity was losing so badly was because the civilian population wasn't whipped into shape. Remember in the level Exodus? The civilians didn't even know what Brutes were and they were the at Harvest! That just goes to show how little the civies knew.

[Edited on 05.20.2011 11:53 AM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 11:17 AM PDT

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