Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Just what is so criminally wrong about Halo: Reach?
  • Subject: Just what is so criminally wrong about Halo: Reach?
Subject: Just what is so criminally wrong about Halo: Reach?
  • gamertag: Methew
  • user homepage:

It's something that's been bothering me since Reach launched and people declared it an affront to the canon.

I read TFoR and First Strike, and I'll admit that it's been a while since I've read them, but nothing about Halo: Reach makes me say "That is completely and utterly wrong."

Any inconsistances that come to mind can be explained.

[Edited on 05.19.2011 3:23 PM PDT]

  • 05.19.2011 3:19 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

The UNSC fleet is no where to be seen except for a couple frigates and the Orbital defense platforms are also missing.

  • 05.19.2011 3:28 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The dates are up for grabs, but to me, ONI may as well have had a news blackout until New Alexandria got hit. If they could keep the issue with harvest in the dark for a while, I don't see them having much trouble with Reach.

Posted by: shadowkiller2
The UNSC fleet is no where to be seen except for a couple frigates and the Orbital defense platforms are also missing.


This too. But to be honest, Reach is a big planet and the SMACs are in a formation of 20 on one side of the planet. The Supercarrier probably missed them to avoid being torn to shreds.

[Edited on 05.19.2011 3:33 PM PDT]

  • 05.19.2011 3:29 PM PDT

People are just overreacting OP. There is nothing truly wrong with Halo: Reach, a few inconsistencies that are quite easily fixable maybe, but there's nothing that can't be fixed, and it's certainly not worth getting so worked up about.

Most of the slight inconsistencies were fixed in Halsey's Journal (came with the Limited and Legendary editions of the game), or can just be completely explained with common sense.

  • 05.19.2011 3:34 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Reach portrayed the fortress world of Humanity in a shameful manner. No nukes, 2 frigates. Being harassed by one Covenant vessel (The size of which is garbage). Super MACS being unavailable for use.

The back of the cover said that Nobel Team was backed by the full might of the UNSC...

Some things I have not worked out yet:

~ How did that Supercarrier know to employ such stealth measures in the first place having no prior knowledge that Reach was A) A Human world and B) Equipped with such powerful defences. (That never get used anyway).

~ How was its gravitational effects in Slipspace not detected as it approached the Epsilon Eridani system? That thing is 27 km long. If asteroids can be detected then that thing should also have been.

~ How was the initial Slipspace rupture not detected?

~ How was the massive thermal signature of that Vessel not detected?

  • 05.19.2011 3:42 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: anton1792
Reach portrayed the fortress world of Humanity in a shameful manner. No nukes, 2 frigates. Being harassed by one Covenant vessel (The size of which is garbage). Super MACS being unavailable for use.

The back of the cover said that Nobel Team was backed by the full might of the UNSC...

Some things I have not worked out yet:

~ How did that Supercarrier know to employ such stealth measures in the first place having no prior knowledge that Reach was A) A Human world and B) Equipped with such powerful defences. (That never get used anyway).

~ How was its gravitational effects in Slipspace not detected as it approached the Epsilon Eridani system? That thing is 27 km long. If asteroids can be detected then that thing should also have been.

~ How was the initial Slipspace rupture not detected?

~ How was the massive thermal signature of that Vessel not detected?

To explain the Supercarrier, weren't the Spires disguised as asteroids, planted on Reach, and then acted as teleporters for the Supercarrier. Don't get me wrong, the energy required to transport the Supercarrier would be massive, but they had quite a few.

And I think the Covies knew Reach was a human world, didn't they tag Keyes' ship and found out where it went?

  • 05.19.2011 3:45 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Reach got trolled by bad story telling.

This is why us canon freaks are disappointed.

  • 05.19.2011 3:47 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
People are just overreacting OP. There is nothing truly wrong with Halo: Reach, a few inconsistencies that are quite easily fixable maybe, but there's nothing that can't be fixed, and it's certainly not worth getting so worked up about.

Most of the slight inconsistencies were fixed in Halsey's Journal (came with the Limited and Legendary editions of the game), or can just be completely explained with common sense.

This this and this. All of this.

  • 05.19.2011 3:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
To explain the Supercarrier, weren't the Spires disguised as asteroids, planted on Reach, and then acted as teleporters for the Supercarrier. Don't get me wrong, the energy required to transport the Supercarrier would be massive, but they had quite a few.

Where was it mentioned?

Multiple asteroids on a collision course with the planet would be destroyed for obvious reasons. Although, they might be small enough to go undetected in slipspace. The Slipspace transition and their approach to the planet would be though.

Dot mentioned that the ship was cloaked there. There has also been no mention anywhere in any other canon of the Covenant possessing teleportation technology. Their knowledge of slipspace is poorer than that of the UNSC's. Remember, it is essentially a in-atmosphere transition, which neither side knew how to do. The Covenant having this sort technology makes them severely OP to point of meaninglessness. Teleporting bombs into cities, onto planets etc

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
And I think the Covies knew Reach was a human world, didn't they tag Keyes' ship and found out where it went?

Iroquois would not have gotten back by the 24 of July I don't think. If it had, then there would be very little time for the probe to return to Covenant space and for a ship to be dispatched.

I guess you said could all be explanations for those points, but they seem ad hoc to me, OP the Covenant and seem quite counter-intuitive. It now begs the question how the UNSC was then able to resist a force that could teleport starships around like so, and employ such tactics.

  • 05.19.2011 4:34 PM PDT

Mainly because the dates are super unclear as they relate to the book, and because It showed us only a tiny fraction of what was expected from a planet as major as Reach. Some of the actions taken by the UNSC and Covenant are absurd, also.

  • 05.19.2011 4:43 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: anton1792
Multiple asteroids on a collision course with the planet would be destroyed for obvious reasons. Although, they might be small enough to go undetected in slipspace. The Slipspace transition and their approach to the planet would be though.


I'm not so sure, remember how the BXR Industries mine was built on an asteroid impact site? I believe the area where the Spires were later found was so remote the UNSC wouldn't bother. That and it may lead to finding more titanium deposits. That's just speculation though.

  • 05.19.2011 4:48 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Reach portrayed the fortress world of Humanity in a shameful manner. No nukes, 2 frigates. Being harassed by one Covenant vessel (The size of which is garbage). Super MACS being unavailable for use.

The back of the cover said that Nobel Team was backed by the full might of the UNSC...


Carter says "All our nukes are either out of system or went down with the ships that carried them." implying that the home fleet was either sent against the Supercarrier and devastated, or it picked quite a few of them off, or a third option nukes were already launched at it and picked off en-route. Either one of these options explains why a nuke was not a viable option.

And as for the frigates, there are three that you can see, there're two on Tip of the Spear. And anyway, you're on the planet most of the time, you're not going to see that many ships planet side, you never really do in any of the other games either.

It never says anywhere in Reach that the SMACs were inoperable or anything else at all similar. They wouldn't be used to take out anything planet side, because that basically amounts to nuking your own planet. And the Supercarrier would not park itself near the SMACs either, the Covenant aren't complete idiots after all, and putting your ship there is tantamount to committing suicide.

  • 05.19.2011 4:50 PM PDT

"Concise and devoid of elegance...what I have come to expect from human communication"-Endless Summer

People are butthurt.

  • 05.19.2011 5:17 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: OrderedComa
Carter says "All our nukes are either out of system or went down with the ships that carried them." implying that the home fleet was either sent against the Supercarrier and devastated, or it picked quite a few of them off, or a third option nukes were already launched at it and picked off en-route. Either one of these options explains why a nuke was not a viable option.

This does not do Reach justice. This is one Covenant starship.

If the entire home defence fleet was savaged by one vessel and there was insufficient nuclear payload to destroy this thing then Reach is not a fortress world. If a sizeable Nuclear payload cannot touch or do damage to this thing in addition to an entire fleet of vessels, then there is no reason why 20 of these things should not faceroll Reach onto oblivion, or even 50. First Strike says that the Covenant possesses hundreds of Supercarriers. In this instance the war would have been over years ago. Surely the Covenant are not stupid enough to overlook such massively powerful assets right under their noses?

This also implies that Reach has no groundside reserves of Nuclear weaponry. Fortress world...

Posted by: OrderedComa
And as for the frigates, there are three that you can see, there're two on Tip of the Spear. And anyway, you're on the planet most of the time, you're not going to see that many ships planet side, you never really do in any of the other games either.

My primary point is that there were no ships there to deal with this threat in the first place. (3 Frigates would hardly pose a threat to a single Assault Carrier) Reach was utterly defenceless to a lone Covenant vessel for days. Fortress world...

Posted by: OrderedComa
It never says anywhere in Reach that the SMACs were inoperable or anything else at all similar. They wouldn't be used to take out anything planet side, because that basically amounts to nuking your own planet. And the Supercarrier would not park itself near the SMACs either, the Covenant aren't complete idiots after all, and putting your ship there is tantamount to committing suicide.

I know that using the SMAC's on dirtside targets would be ridiculous. The presence of the unchallenged Supercarrier and "Covenant controlled Space" over Reach somehow means that they were unavailable for use. That does not mean that they were inoperable, just that they were not there for some reason. I do not know why not, because they obviously have thrusters to counteract the reaction force from firing their guns which allows them to move, and in TFoR they were re-positioned to face the Fleet of Particular Justice.

The fact of these being inconsistencies or not is not really the issue here, at least not for me. Whether or not they fit, they deal a horrible sucker-punch to what Reach was supposed to represent.

  • 05.19.2011 5:19 PM PDT

People overreacting. Almost all the inconsistencies can be explained very easily. The only one that can't is the amount of time the battle takes place over. And even then that was a change for the better.

  • 05.19.2011 5:22 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Reach was an abomination. I don't feel like ranting about it, so I'll stop there.

  • 05.19.2011 5:35 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I don't have much of a problem with the dates themselves, but just the date gaps between each campaign mission...apparently Reach takes place over the course of three months?

  • 05.19.2011 5:42 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: IKLEB0Y
I don't have much of a problem with the dates themselves, but just the date gaps between each campaign mission...apparently Reach takes place over the course of three months?

It was one month.

  • 05.19.2011 5:54 PM PDT


Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Reach was an abomination. I don't feel like ranting about it, so I'll stop there.

  • 05.19.2011 6:11 PM PDT


Posted by: IKLEB0Y
I don't have much of a problem with the dates themselves, but just the date gaps between each campaign mission...apparently Reach takes place over the course of three months?


The total amount of time that the game takes place over is just about a month, give or take a couple days.

  • 05.19.2011 6:38 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: OrderedComa
Carter says "All our nukes are either out of system or went down with the ships that carried them." implying that the home fleet was either sent against the Supercarrier and devastated, or it picked quite a few of them off, or a third option nukes were already launched at it and picked off en-route. Either one of these options explains why a nuke was not a viable option.

This does not do Reach justice. This is one Covenant starship.

If the entire home defence fleet was savaged by one vessel and there was insufficient nuclear payload to destroy this thing then Reach is not a fortress world. If a sizeable Nuclear payload cannot touch or do damage to this thing in addition to an entire fleet of vessels, then there is no reason why 20 of these things should not faceroll Reach onto oblivion, or even 50. First Strike says that the Covenant possesses hundreds of Supercarriers. In this instance the war would have been over years ago. Surely the Covenant are not stupid enough to overlook such massively powerful assets right under their noses?

This also implies that Reach has no groundside reserves of Nuclear weaponry. Fortress world...

We don't know the full extent of the Supercarrier's weapons. For all we know, the Supercarrier's armaments may be limited to just the projector and a bunch of point defense weapons. We also don't know the shield strength of the carrier. Judging by the size of the ship, they could have several massive power sources which are solely used for powering the shield.

The Supercarrier's main strength could be based in the fact that it can scramble thousands of fighters and several larger ships. As for the nuclear weapons, I am sure the UNSC would be cautious about firing nukes in atmosphere and once the Supercarrier exited atmo it could have jumped out of range of the nukes and home fleet.

  • 05.19.2011 6:47 PM PDT

It's ok Anton. Remember what site you're on and the people you're debating with...

  • 05.19.2011 6:51 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Reach crapped on Canon, some people like to think it didn't by simply saying "Oh it was just bent a little."

Check out the "Unexplainable errors in the Reach canon" thread in the Top forum topics for more info.

  • 05.19.2011 6:55 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Dustin 6047


People like this dumb ass above me need to find better things to do on this forum rather than say the game was bad for messing with this "canon". None of it matters.


You do know what forum section you're on right?

Canon is the ONLY thing that matters in this section.

  • 05.19.2011 7:09 PM PDT