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This topic has moved here: Subject: Just what is so criminally wrong about Halo: Reach?
  • Subject: Just what is so criminally wrong about Halo: Reach?
Subject: Just what is so criminally wrong about Halo: Reach?

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: RKOSNAKE

So, what was so special about 29 Aug 2552? This was the very first time a "smart" AI had "piggy-backed" in the Mjolnir Mk. V powered assault armor during "live-fire" simulated combat conditions.

Taken directly from Bungie and while I do recognize that I'm wrong in the testing thing, this may as well shut the people who complain about Noble Team having MJOLNIR already.


We all know that NOBLE had Mark V before the rest of the Spartan II's(for some godforsaken reason that we'll probably never know.)

The only Spartan II who had MJOLNIR before the others was Jorge. Every other Spartan II received their Mark V at the same time.

Also, the marines were "so familiar" with it, because Mark V is just a slimmed down Mark IV.


They were familiar with how the armor works too, like the shield mechanics and everything.

  • 05.20.2011 11:49 AM PDT
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Bungie went into developement knowing full well Halo is no longer their IP. There are alot of elements within REACH from a gameplay and canonical perspective that is skewed.

I beleive it was an act of sabotage on behalf of Bungie to alter the gameplay & canon so radically. From a gameplay stand point maybe test out "new" components/elements for future reference knowing full well they will not be left holding the REACH or HALO bag.

As far as canon why should Bungie care? IP rights to their biggest success no longer belong to them. That was the price for multi-plat independence. I have no affiliations with Bungie and when that was announced after the release of H3 I felt the sting! That shyt must have hurt Bungie on many different levels. THEY ACTUALLY TOOK HALO FROM BUNGIE!!! Kudos to them for biting the bullet in order to reach step 7....Shake the shyt outta' that snowglobe before you leave though!!!

At this point outside of the 117/Cortana story arc I could give 2 shyts about the rest of the Halo-verse. I am looking forward to new hotness and dope stories from the ?Crimson-verse!!! I don't want anymore Halo from oppertunistic pimps(M$) & hoes(343i).

  • 05.20.2011 12:10 PM PDT

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"Sometimes life gives you lemons, and then you have to say 'f**k the lemons' and bail."

If you're reading this, you need to stop stalking me. If you can't stop stalking me, you might as well go here.

Posted by: AKA 357I highly doubt Reach was done the way it was out of spite. We can rule out incompetence, seeing as they obviously know how to make a decent game.

I just chalk it up to Reach being put lower on their list of priorities in favor of their new IP, but for most of the reasons you listed. They were handing the franchise off, not ending it, so I doubt there was any "let's go out with a bang" mentality toward Halo in this respect.

Put simply, I don't think their hearts were in this one.

  • 05.20.2011 12:25 PM PDT
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As far as content is concerned Reach is an excellent game. But we all know if Bungie wanted to do better (gameplay & story/canon) they could have.

  • 05.20.2011 12:33 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: AKA 357
As far as content is concerned Reach is an excellent game. But we all know if Bungie wanted to do better (gameplay & story/canon) they could have.


I'm not sure about that, they seem to be pretty smug and proud of it in all their vidoc's and podcasts.

  • 05.20.2011 12:41 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Methew
Posted by: privet caboose
Check out the "Unexplainable errors in the Reach canon" thread in the Top forum topics for more info.

I read that topic a while back but even those errors are explainable.


Please, enlighten me.


People have been "enlightening" you all throughtout your thread and all throughout this whole forum :P You're just simply not listening and writing every idea off, no matter how plausible (or sometimes implausible) it is. Your response, and the response of a whole lot of other people on here, pretty much boils down to "I'm offended that canon was slightly changed, so I'm going to sit here and shout down anyone trying to figure it out, no matter how intelligent or otherwise their proposed fix is!".


Lol, this Coma kid is funny. He's the most unabashed Bungie fanboy-apologist in this forum section.

The irony of this all is that you need enlightenment, not Caboose, who clearly can see how badly the game FUBAR-ed the canon.

  • 05.20.2011 1:03 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Methew
Posted by: privet caboose
Check out the "Unexplainable errors in the Reach canon" thread in the Top forum topics for more info.

I read that topic a while back but even those errors are explainable.


Please, enlighten me.


People have been "enlightening" you all throughtout your thread and all throughout this whole forum :P You're just simply not listening and writing every idea off, no matter how plausible (or sometimes implausible) it is. Your response, and the response of a whole lot of other people on here, pretty much boils down to "I'm offended that canon was slightly changed, so I'm going to sit here and shout down anyone trying to figure it out, no matter how intelligent or otherwise their proposed fix is!".


Lol, this Coma kid is funny. He's the most unabashed Bungie fanboy-apologist in this forum section.

The irony of this all is that you need enlightenment, not Caboose, who clearly can see how badly the game FUBAR-ed the canon.



Coma is a girl, bro. And no, it didn't "FUBAR-ed" The canon, just tweaked it lightly, the rest of the books are unaffected.

  • 05.20.2011 1:05 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Halo Reach conflicts with 4 books: Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.

  • 05.20.2011 1:57 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Halo Reach conflicts with 4 books: Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.


How does it conflict with First Strike and Ghosts Of Onyx?

  • 05.20.2011 1:59 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Halo Reach conflicts with 4 books: Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.


How does it conflict with First Strike and Ghosts Of Onyx?

First Strike shows that Halsey only learned of the III's existence AFTER the Battle of Reach, not to mention much of First Strike is about that battle as well. Ghosts of Onyx states that all Spartan III's from Alpha and Beta died save for Tom and Lucy (yet we have III's from those companies in Reach).

  • 05.20.2011 2:01 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Coma is a girl, bro. And no, it didn't "FUBAR-ed" The canon, just tweaked it lightly, the rest of the books are unaffected.

The Pillar of Autumn would have no way to taking off once it landed. MC never made it to Halo, and the Covenant won the war and eradicated the human species.

Kind of alters the canon a lot if you ask me.

  • 05.20.2011 2:02 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Halo Reach conflicts with 4 books: Fall of Reach, The Flood, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.


How does it conflict with First Strike and Ghosts Of Onyx?

First Strike shows that Halsey only learned of the III's existence AFTER the Battle of Reach, not to mention much of First Strike is about that battle as well. Ghosts of Onyx states that all Spartan III's from Alpha and Beta died save for Tom and Lucy (yet we have III's from those companies in Reach).


Then Headhunters also messes up with Ghosts Of Onyx.
and she didn't knew they were Spartan III's in Halo: Reach, for all she knew, they were ONI made Spartans (not far from the truth) This is completely plausible, Team BLACK was out of her jurisdiction and I won't put it past them to listen to ONI and ONI alone unlike the other Spartans who considered Halsey as an authority figure.

  • 05.20.2011 2:05 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

I would be far more inclined to believe a seperate group of III's was made by ONI not under the command of Kurt than to believe that they randomly spawned a few extra III's out of those groups. III's were not meant for things like Noble, and the Headhunters even existing makes Noble's position already filled.

  • 05.20.2011 2:12 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Xd00999
We don't know the full extent of the Supercarrier's weapons. For all we know, the Supercarrier's armaments may be limited to just the projector and a bunch of point defense weapons. We also don't know the shield strength of the carrier. Judging by the size of the ship, they could have several massive power sources which are solely used for powering the shield.

It will have several times more surface area than an Assault Carrier, so more area for plasma turrets. With all that space, why would it have less weaponry than a smaller vessel? It should be able to dish out damage. However that does not make it invincible. With normal sort of shield strength, a SMAC round should nail it one, maybe two goes.

If its shields are that strong that Reach was defenceless to it then it is essentially unstoppable to most of what the UNSC could muster. If it has weaker weaponry then it should be able to attrition UNSC fleets. The Covenant have hundreds, they should be facerolling the UNSC.

That is why I think its size is garbage. If it is weak, then Reach must be pathetic. If it is too strong, then Halo becomes nothing more than a happy ending service. Supercarriers only used to be 5km long before.
I was always under the impression that the Suppercarrier was more akin to a Aircraft Carrier: strong, but it's true force comes from the fact that it has several thousand support craft (the covenant version) on hand kill every thing that might threaten it.
The SMACs are quite vulnerable to plasma fire, the UNSC could have moved the away to protect them from the Energy Projector which could have done untold damage to the SMACs and the ship could have easily stayed out of range.
The Carrier might also be one-of-a-kind: no matter how advanced your ship is, if it gets destroyed you lose a large amount of personnel and weapons.
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Xd00999
As for the nuclear weapons, I am sure the UNSC would be cautious about firing nukes in atmosphere and once the Supercarrier exited atmo it could have jumped out of range of the nukes and home fleet.

They never had reservations about it at Sigma Octanus. An entire city was levelled, whilst on reach it is in the middle of a deserted continent.

I don't see the home fleet not perusing and destroying it, unless they can't which then goes back to the above.^

Sigma Octanus was not humanity's second most important planet, Reach is. By the time they nuked Octanus, it was clear the planet was lost, whereas in Reach they thought they could still win the battle. They would not nuke a planet they are trying to protect. Even though it was in the middle of a dessert who knows what could happen? The damage to the environment would still be significant and it would be much harder to maintain the illusion that Reach was not under attack which was the only thing that was preventing planet wide chaos.
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Xd00999
This forum is meant to be about theorizing

Theorizing relies upon details. That pretty much goes out of the window if said details are constantly in flux.
The changes to canon do not significantly affect the canon as a whole, only the battle of Reach was affected. Reach did not disprove any theories.

[Edited on 05.20.2011 2:32 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 2:18 PM PDT

You guys want to know another major inconsistency.

Book: The Covenant arrived "detected" in system "outside" the range of SMACs.

Game: Covenant arrived undetected below the defense grid...

Honestly, the game's version of the invasion fleet's arrival is stupid in itself. If you have 700 frelling Covenant ships exiting slipspace under the SMACs, why in the world would it take the Covenant several weeks to conquer Reach. That's just plain bad writing.

[Edited on 05.20.2011 2:32 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 2:26 PM PDT


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Methew
Posted by: privet caboose
Check out the "Unexplainable errors in the Reach canon" thread in the Top forum topics for more info.

I read that topic a while back but even those errors are explainable.


Please, enlighten me.


People have been "enlightening" you all throughtout your thread and all throughout this whole forum :P You're just simply not listening and writing every idea off, no matter how plausible (or sometimes implausible) it is. Your response, and the response of a whole lot of other people on here, pretty much boils down to "I'm offended that canon was slightly changed, so I'm going to sit here and shout down anyone trying to figure it out, no matter how intelligent or otherwise their proposed fix is!".


Lol, this Coma kid is funny. He's the most unabashed Bungie fanboy-apologist in this forum section.

The irony of this all is that you need enlightenment, not Caboose, who clearly can see how badly the game FUBAR-ed the canon.



First of all I am a she, not a he. And second of all, I am not a Bungie fanboy (or fangirl either), I just do not think that Reach completely broke canon and ruined the Halo franchise.

If people can find explanations for things, then it is not ruined, and there are already quite a few official explanations from Bungie (hint: look at the marketing material for Reach and Dr. Halsey's Journal).

  • 05.20.2011 2:30 PM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Coma is a girl, bro. And no, it didn't "FUBAR-ed" The canon, just tweaked it lightly, the rest of the books are unaffected.

The Pillar of Autumn would have no way to taking off once it landed. MC never made it to Halo, and the Covenant won the war and eradicated the human species.

Kind of alters the canon a lot if you ask me.


I guess you must have completely skipped that cutscene after you shoot down that Covenant Cruiser or must not have finished the game. It is clearly shown that the Autumn leaves Reach, and it gets off the ground with several rocket tugs attached to the side of the ship.

  • 05.20.2011 2:33 PM PDT




Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Methew
Posted by: privet caboose
Check out the "Unexplainable errors in the Reach canon" thread in the Top forum topics for more info. [/quote]
I read that topic a while back but even those errors are explainable.[/quote]

Please, enlighten me. [/quote]

People have been "enlightening" you all throughtout your thread and all throughout this whole forum :P You're just simply not listening and writing every idea off, no matter how plausible (or sometimes implausible) it is. Your response, and the response of a whole lot of other people on here, pretty much boils down to "I'm offended that canon was slightly changed, so I'm going to sit here and shout down anyone trying to figure it out, no matter how intelligent or otherwise their proposed fix is!".


Lol, this Coma kid is funny. He's the most unabashed Bungie fanboy-apologist in this forum section.

The irony of this all is that you need enlightenment, not Caboose, who clearly can see how badly the game FUBAR-ed the canon.



First of all I am a she, not a he. And second of all, I am not a Bungie fanboy (or fangirl either), I just do not think that Reach completely broke canon and ruined the Halo franchise.

If people can find explanations for things, then it is not ruined, and there are already quite a few official explanations from Bungie (hint: look at the marketing material for Reach and Dr. Halsey's Journal).


It's the internet, I don't care. You're just another virtual entity.

Considering that you attacked Private Caboose for providing his provision of reasons why Reach(game) was canon-breaking, you proved your ignorance when you tried to downplay the existence of a gargantuan thread listing problems with the canon.

Yet, you just keep apologizing for Bungie's canon errors.

Anyhow, I've also read the Diary. And you want to know something, it provides absolutely jack. Not only was it a mundane read, I felt slightly embarassed for Nylund, being forced to insert half-arsed reasons why the new canon's circumstances. Likely seriously, holding fracking Spartan-armor test trials when millions of civilians are being slaughtered. That just reeks of incompetence.

  • 05.20.2011 2:41 PM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

The largest, Spartan III's aren't supposed to be on Reach. All but two of Alpha and Bravo company were killed blowing up a covenant super factory and Charlie company was, as EVERY OTHER SPARTAN was, on Onxy. Chief had already destroyed Halo and the planet was falling apart.

On top of this, Halsey was supposed to not know of Spartan III's until her trip to Onyx with Kelly and yet she's fine with them being around on Reach as though she always knew about them.

  • 05.20.2011 3:02 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Coma, you've got to consider that the Savannah was not trying to destroy the Ardent Prayer. Truth is, a Frigate is an even fight for two Corvettes. It can take out one with its MAC cannon and then finish the other with archer missiles due to their lack of shielding.


Haha, yeah, kinda forgot that little detail XD Thanks for pointing that out, lol.

  • 05.20.2011 3:04 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Anyhow, I've also read the Diary. And you want to know something, it provides absolutely jack. Not only was it a mundane read, I felt slightly embarassed for Nylund, being forced to insert half-arsed reasons why the new canon's circumstances. Likely seriously, holding fracking Spartan-armor test trials when millions of civilians are being slaughtered. That just reeks of incompetence.

Don't worry, she hasn't read it so she is clinging to the trust that her friends and Halo Wiki are telling the truth that it explains everything she can't.

[Edited on 05.20.2011 3:10 PM PDT]

  • 05.20.2011 3:06 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Sector Z 157
On top of this, Halsey was supposed to not know of Spartan III's until her trip to Onyx with Kelly and yet she's fine with them being around on Reach as though she always knew about them.

She didn't know they were Spartan-IIIs. In the Journal, all she knows is that they are not her Spartans. Her first guess what they they come from something called Project JAVELIN.

Source: Halsey's Journal

  • 05.20.2011 3:33 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: Sector Z 157
The largest, Spartan III's aren't supposed to be on Reach. All but two of Alpha and Bravo company were killed blowing up a covenant super factory and Charlie company was, as EVERY OTHER SPARTAN was, on Onxy. Chief had already destroyed Halo and the planet was falling apart.

On top of this, Halsey was supposed to not know of Spartan III's until her trip to Onyx with Kelly and yet she's fine with them being around on Reach as though she always knew about them.


Beta and there was no Charlie company, Gamma company wasn't on Onyx by the time the battle of Earth took place and the planet wasn't falling apart.

And she didn't knew they were Spartan III's, she just knew they were not her Spartans.

  • 05.20.2011 3:36 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

I agree with Anton, Private Caboose, Geek and various people who saying that Halo: Reach broke the canon of Halo universe.

There's so many points were radically altered; it can't simply be fixed. If you want a fix, you'll need to overhaul the Halo: Reach. Honestly I can think of better storyline such as participation of space battle; involvement of Blue Team at Gamma Station, switching to Red Team tasked with defending the generator stations, after that battle, the ground skirmishes continues as you continue play as Red Team; and defending the CASTLE base, then into titanium mines. It may sound short to you; it can be fixed as they can add playable ODSTs defending various places before getting killed, perhaps we can play as Buck again, etc. I think it'd be damn good storyline instead of smoldering abomination called: Halo Reach that ruined entire CANON.

  • 05.20.2011 3:43 PM PDT


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind



Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Methew
Posted by: privet caboose
Check out the "Unexplainable errors in the Reach canon" thread in the Top forum topics for more info. [/quote]
I read that topic a while back but even those errors are explainable.[/quote]

Please, enlighten me. [/quote]

People have been "enlightening" you all throughtout your thread and all throughout this whole forum :P You're just simply not listening and writing every idea off, no matter how plausible (or sometimes implausible) it is. Your response, and the response of a whole lot of other people on here, pretty much boils down to "I'm offended that canon was slightly changed, so I'm going to sit here and shout down anyone trying to figure it out, no matter how intelligent or otherwise their proposed fix is!".


Lol, this Coma kid is funny. He's the most unabashed Bungie fanboy-apologist in this forum section.

The irony of this all is that you need enlightenment, not Caboose, who clearly can see how badly the game FUBAR-ed the canon.



First of all I am a she, not a he. And second of all, I am not a Bungie fanboy (or fangirl either), I just do not think that Reach completely broke canon and ruined the Halo franchise.

If people can find explanations for things, then it is not ruined, and there are already quite a few official explanations from Bungie (hint: look at the marketing material for Reach and Dr. Halsey's Journal).


It's the internet, I don't care. You're just another virtual entity.

Considering that you attacked Private Caboose for providing his provision of reasons why Reach(game) was canon-breaking, you proved your ignorance when you tried to downplay the existence of a gargantuan thread listing problems with the canon.

Yet, you just keep apologizing for Bungie's canon errors.

Anyhow, I've also read the Diary. And you want to know something, it provides absolutely jack. Not only was it a mundane read, I felt slightly embarassed for Nylund, being forced to insert half-arsed reasons why the new canon's circumstances. Likely seriously, holding fracking Spartan-armor test trials when millions of civilians are being slaughtered. That just reeks of incompetence.


I did not attack Caboose at all, I have no malice or ill-will directed toward him or any other person on here that think Reach breaks the canon of the whole Halo story. I merely pointed out that his points (and many others from other forum members) have been reasonably countered and explained countless times, and that very few people actually take the time to listen and instead just write it off as automatically wrong.

I'm sorry if you think that, but you're wrong, it does provide several fixes, whether you find it interesting or not is your opinion (and doesn't really matter to me one way or the other).
Honestly the account of the Battle of Reach in TFoR is more what feels half-assed to me than anything to do with Halo: Reach. Humanity's second most important world and its military center falling in a couple hours to only 314 ships is rather ridiculous.

Things were never, truly, truly dire until the second Covenant fleet, the Fleet of Particular Justice, arrived at Reach on the 30th. Everything before that the UNSC could have beaten off with heavy losses, and the civilians and key military personnel they couldn't afford were being evacuated from Reach. When Chief underwent the testing of AI integration into Mark V civilians would be either off planet and away or evacuated to staging areas further away from the path of the Covenant. Sure there would still be civilians casualties going on, but at that point there would not be millions of civilian deaths happening at once, that's just silly to even suggest that.

  • 05.20.2011 3:48 PM PDT