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This topic has moved here: Subject: Your vote on Halo:Reach and the FOR Canon errors (3 options)
  • Subject: Your vote on Halo:Reach and the FOR Canon errors (3 options)

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: ULLER MECH
You are the only error. The story is perfect.


I'm trying to find a more WRONG statement, in vain apparently.

  • 05.22.2011 9:22 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: ninjakenzen
I voted for the 3rd.

Reason: Noble Team, their mere presence annoyed me.

These are not a Spartan Special Force Team in any way. It's like taking the whole image painted in Halo Canon on Spartan Mythology and then branding them "power rangers".

It's simply irreparable.


That is not a good reason at all.

If that's not a good reason, justify it.

How does Noble Team follow continuity in canon with the rest of the Spartan's Represented in the Novel?

It's easy to say one-liners in a disagreement: Explain.


Please, inform me how the novels have portrayed a Spartan III special forces team. I'm dying to know cause I've never read anything that did.

Likewise, you could explain why Noble Team tore a massive gaping hole in canon, instead of going "They annoyed me, so it's irreparable."

Edit: Amusing how you ask him to flesh out why he thinks your statement is not a good reason, yet you haven't fleshed out why it IS a good one.


I know you have bone to pick with me, on more then a few occasions....

However, *facepalm.

Edit-If you justified his "that's not a good reason." for face value.

Then you've just defended my right to say it is.

It's a good reason.

Cheers.

Oh and read the question again. This time slowly. Analyse the Focus of the question.

Let your ego trip please.

[Edited on 05.22.2011 9:42 AM PDT]

  • 05.22.2011 9:38 AM PDT

I'll focus on the question, if you do as well.

I asked how Noble Team was such a far trip from any other S3 special forces team.

Besides, all I asked was you explain your viewpoint beyond "I think Noble Team is power rangers and they annoyed me." Just like you asked him to explain why he thought it was a bad reason.

  • 05.22.2011 9:56 AM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: ninjakenzen
I voted for the 3rd.

Reason: Noble Team, their mere presence annoyed me.

These are not a Spartan Special Force Team in any way. It's like taking the whole image painted in Halo Canon on Spartan Mythology and then branding them "power rangers".

It's simply irreparable.


That is not a good reason at all.

If that's not a good reason, justify it.

How does Noble Team follow continuity in canon with the rest of the Spartan's Represented in the Novel?

It's easy to say one-liners in a disagreement: Explain.



You are the one who needs to do the explaining.

Instead of saying stupid things like "Power rangers" give me a decent reason why noble team actually "broke canon".

And if your reasoning has anything to do with armour abilities, they are not canon, they are purely for gameplay reasons.

  • 05.22.2011 10:04 AM PDT
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Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

I voted for 2. H:R errors are easily explained, acceptable, minor.

Any large expansive universes are going to, overtime, accumulate conflicting information, it's just how it goes when several different people and organisations add a little bit to the whole.

After all is said and done I suspect a "golden" series of media will be released, stretching/folding the story so that all canon aspects can be integrated without overlapping/contradicting each other.

My personal opinion upon originally reading TFoR was that the UNSC were foolish. War had been raging for 20 years, surely the UNSC were aware of the Covenants ability to precision jump behind their MAC stations? Where were the backups?

Having a month long battle makes sense to me. First battalion stumble upon Reach, get repelled, Iroquis jumps in system and brings the reinforcements/initial invading army.

[Edited on 05.22.2011 10:18 AM PDT]

  • 05.22.2011 10:17 AM PDT


Posted by: Pipboy 3050
The majority of people who have answered option No.3 have awful reasons. Whereas Grey or caboose actually have good reasons, many people have just said "I voted 3 because the POA is on reach"(which can be easily explained) or "I voted 3 because i dont like the story of reach".

I suggest you look over the reasons people put in place, many of them are just plain silly. I remember one guy voted 3 because the POA "was not rated for in-atmosphere and therefore would get crushed by its own weight" despite the POA being in-atmosphere in halo CE.

That really just pissed me off. You can't just right off someones reason for not liking something because you don't think there reason is valid!

If the PoA being on Reach is so easily explained would you care to explain it to us? Then I'm sure we will all see how blind we were.

Did you not realize that in CE the PoA had crashed? No it would not be crushed, but it certainly wouldn't fly so easily. It was harder for the Sabre to lift off and it's a hundred times smaller.

No matter what someones reason for realizing Reach breaks canon and it overall hurts the Halo universe it's still their reason. You don't get to pick which ones are worthy.

Some of you who vote for 1 or 2 just say it's obvious or you use common sense and that they coexist perfectly. Yet the majority of us don't see it that way. Numbers don't lie.

An interview with Bungie/343 employees saying that they do work together isn't an explanations. It's not counted as canon is it?

Until a large amount of work is done on this we will not and never will view Halo Reach as proper canon. Even then a fair amount of people will be unhappy. We won't let this go.

[Edited on 05.22.2011 10:24 AM PDT]

  • 05.22.2011 10:23 AM PDT

Um, we've theorized that the boosters for the saber is for one reason, and one reason only.

To make getting into orbit easier/quicker.

  • 05.22.2011 10:29 AM PDT
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Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um, we've theorized that the boosters for the saber is for one reason, and one reason only.

To make getting into orbit easier/quicker.


Probably also helps with the overall fuel performance.

After tanks are empty jettison. Then switch to onboard fuel for thrusters.

  • 05.22.2011 10:32 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um, we've theorized that the boosters for the saber is for one reason, and one reason only.

To make getting into orbit easier/quicker.

the key word there is theorized.

Also this is the first I've ever heard someone say that, but i could be out of touch.

  • 05.22.2011 10:36 AM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: monkDAN

That really just pissed me off. You can't just right off someones reason for not liking something because you don't think there reason is valid!

If the PoA being on Reach is so easily explained would you care to explain it to us? Then I'm sure we will all see how blind we were.

Did you not realize that in CE the PoA had crashed? No it would not be crushed, but it certainly wouldn't fly so easily. It was harder for the Sabre to lift off and it's a hundred times smaller.

No matter what someones reason for realizing Reach breaks canon and it overall hurts the Halo universe it's still their reason. You don't get to pick which ones are worthy.

Some of you who vote for 1 or 2 just say it's obvious or you use common sense and that they coexist perfectly. Yet the majority of us don't see it that way. Numbers don't lie.

An interview with Bungie/343 employees saying that they do work together isn't an explanations. It's not counted as canon is it?

Until a large amount of work is done on this we will not and never will view Halo Reach as proper canon. Even then a fair amount of people will be unhappy. We won't let this go.



PoA did all the tasks that were in FoR. PoA landed on Reach using temporary thrusters; grabbed Cortana fragment, lifted off and left to 04. Simples. No logical fallacies. Frankly, it only adds ONE HOUR of activity into the timeline. So don't use that "There wasn't enough time!" BS.

Of course the PoA crashed, it was even battered by covenant plasma fire. Even then, it did not get crushed in atmosphere. So why would a clean, non damaged PoA get crushed on reach? simple, it wouldn't. Hayclon ships are known for being sturdy, durable, and taking a huge amount of punishment while still being operable. So that's a stupid point, totally invalid.

And stop using Majority. Not everyone has voted here, and many that have voted no.3 use stupid reasons, as I have listed.


On top of that, 343 and Bungie have access to the Halo story bible, which is constantly updated for every new game and book. FoR is old, and I expect 343 and Microsoft will do an re-conned version for the fans. Wait and see. Currently, bungie has left the franchise so it is up to 343 to do the works.

[Edited on 05.22.2011 10:42 AM PDT]

  • 05.22.2011 10:38 AM PDT

sup if you don't like what I post you can go suck one this is the internet not Grammer class so GTFO Grammer N@ZI's

sigh... game canon > book canon

  • 05.22.2011 10:50 AM PDT


Posted by: Pipboy 3050
PoA did all the tasks that were in FoR. PoA landed on Reach using temporary thrusters; grabbed Cortana fragment, lifted off and left to 04. Simples. No logical fallacies. Frankly, it only adds ONE HOUR of activity into the timeline. So don't use that "There wasn't enough time!" BS.

Of course the PoA crashed, it was even battered by covenant plasma fire. Even then, it did not get crushed in atmosphere. So why would a clean, non damaged PoA get crushed on reach? simple, it wouldn't. Hayclon ships are known for being sturdy, durable, and taking a huge amount of punishment while still being operable. So that's a stupid point, totally invalid.

And stop using Majority. Not everyone has voted here, and many that have voted no.3 use stupid reasons, as I have listed.


On top of that, 343 and Bungie have access to the Halo story bible, which is constantly updated for every new game and book. FoR is old, and I expect 343 and Microsoft will do an re-conned version for the fans. Wait and see. Currently, bungie has left the franchise so it is up to 343 to do the works.

I never said it would be crushed. I said I didn't think it would be able to fly.

And as I have listed stop acting like some peoples reasons don't matter. At the moment it is the majority so I'm able to use that word. These polls don't tend to take dramatic turns either.

  • 05.22.2011 10:55 AM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: monkDAN

I never said it would be crushed. I said I didn't think it would be able to fly.

And as I have listed stop acting like some peoples reasons don't matter. At the moment it is the majority so I'm able to use that word. These polls don't tend to take dramatic turns either.


You're getting into technicalities and you know it.

Look, the PoA cant fly on its own. It had Temporary, High-powered thrusters which helped in land and lift of as I have stated, while the main engines powered up. There's nothing illogical about this.

[Edited on 05.22.2011 11:23 AM PDT]

  • 05.22.2011 11:22 AM PDT


Posted by: raganok99
I choose Option 3.

There's far too many inconsistencies/errors in the Reach, it makes it nearly unrepairable. If you want to fix the Reach, it would require to overhaul the storyline.

It'd be good storyline such as:

Witness the battle of space; then late 52 warships with Pillar of Autumn arrives to assist the defense of Reach. As the battle goes, you could easily played as member of Blue Team going to Gamma Station to eliminate the covenants trying to take NAV data and destroy it. And, switching to Red Team while flying over skies until AA fires and causes pelican to crash, forcing Red Team to jump and you would play as wounded memebr of Red team, into defense of generators.

While later, you can easily switch to ODSTs defending the random city; how about Quezon or New Alexandria? Then back to Red team for short time as MAC rounds impact the area near to generator, completely killing portion of Red Team with Marines. Then switch to remaining red team to CASTLE base and meet Dr. Halsey and other, I'll say more later.

This would be fine, it doesn't ruin any canon and it'd be better campaign.

It's just my opinion...


That's funny, I have absolutely no problem at all coming up with solutions that fix the minor issues between Reach and TFoR. And I don't have to give either story an overhaul at all.

And there are many other people who have come up with solutions and explanations for various points as well, such Cmdr DaeFaron, DecepticonCobra, Kit_103, RKOSNAKE, and quite a few more who were around awhile back and I can't remember the names of (you all should know who are) :/

  • 05.22.2011 11:24 AM PDT

Raganok, your solution is interesting, bar two points I can think of now.

A: Nothing would be added to the overall lore.
B: Chief would be a primary character, something Bungie was trying to stress later on, Chief does not = halo.

  • 05.22.2011 11:33 AM PDT


Posted by: DERPZORZ
sigh... game canon > book canon


Indeed, but Bungie/343i shouldn't just go changing the story willy-nilly because of that, most changes so far (and yes I am including Reach!) have all had explanations to go along with the change.

  • 05.22.2011 12:02 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: DERPZORZ
sigh... game canon > book canon


Indeed, but Bungie/343i shouldn't just go changing the story willy-nilly because of that, most changes so far (and yes I am including Reach!) have all had explanations to go along with the change.


The only problem that requires any explanation on bungie's part is ONI and cole protocol.

  • 05.22.2011 2:20 PM PDT

What about Halo: Reach canon > Fall of Reach canon? If I remember correctly Bungie did say something about video game canon trumping novel canon.

  • 05.22.2011 2:33 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: YahwehFreak4evr
What about Halo: Reach canon > Fall of Reach canon? If I remember correctly Bungie did say something about video game canon trumping novel canon.


People don't understand that however and they tend to call us (the ones that use this explanation) as Bungie fanboys/girls.

  • 05.22.2011 2:43 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: YahwehFreak4evr
What about Halo: Reach canon > Fall of Reach canon? If I remember correctly Bungie did say something about video game canon trumping novel canon.


People don't understand that however and they tend to call us (the ones that use this explanation) as Bungie fanboys/girls.


Yep, it's stupid rule we pull out of our asses, even though Bungie put it in back during CE...

  • 05.22.2011 3:11 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: YahwehFreak4evr
What about Halo: Reach canon > Fall of Reach canon? If I remember correctly Bungie did say something about video game canon trumping novel canon.


People don't understand that however and they tend to call us (the ones that use this explanation) as Bungie fanboys/girls.


Yep, it's stupid rule we pull out of our asses, even though Bungie put it in back during CE...

Besides, the Fall of Reach is about 10 years old and the newer sources of canon are conflicting with it. In it's current form, it's not up to snuff. Hopefully 343's "definitive" re-re-release helps.

  • 05.22.2011 3:13 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: YahwehFreak4evr
What about Halo: Reach canon > Fall of Reach canon? If I remember correctly Bungie did say something about video game canon trumping novel canon.


People don't understand that however and they tend to call us (the ones that use this explanation) as Bungie fanboys/girls.


Yep, it's stupid rule we pull out of our asses, even though Bungie put it in back during CE...

Besides, the Fall of Reach is about 10 years old and the newer sources of canon are conflicting with it. In it's current form, it's not up to snuff. Hopefully 343's "definitive" re-re-release helps.
Hopefully, but I won't buy it. The whole purpose of the original re-release was to fix canon errors and it still had a lot of errors. If 343 couldn't change the datestamp to 2552 and make sure that the PoA was firing thrusters it didn't have, then I am a bit concerened for the next re-release.

Edit: There was also a bunch of threads before Reach came out that said 343 was planning to re-release the Halo Encyclopedia with info from Halo:Reach so that everything fitted into canon. Does anyone have any info on that?

[Edited on 05.22.2011 3:25 PM PDT]

  • 05.22.2011 3:21 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

The only books that really directly conflict with Fall of Reach were released after First Strike, and even then Ghosts of Onyx has minimal conflicts (the only real one being when Elites appeared in the war). After Ghosts of Onyx, however, the newer canon started disregarding the established canon more and more. Contact Harvest, Halo: Reach, Evolutions, Legends, etc.

  • 05.22.2011 3:37 PM PDT

­

Between 2 and 3. There are huge, unexplainable errors and then there are small, insignificant, easily explained errors.

  • 05.22.2011 4:56 PM PDT