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This topic has moved here: Subject: Your vote on Halo:Reach and the FOR Canon errors (3 options)
  • Subject: Your vote on Halo:Reach and the FOR Canon errors (3 options)
Subject: Your vote on Halo:Reach and the FOR Canon errors (3 options)

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer

Seriously, who is this guy?

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um: random post. That reviewer guy? Cannot take him seriously after that "basement" bit. Not going to bother listening to the rest.

  • 05.24.2011 1:15 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um: random post. That reviewer guy? Cannot take him seriously after that "basement" bit. Not going to bother listening to the rest.


Now is the point where whatever mutual respect I had left for you diminishes forever.

  • 05.24.2011 1:18 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

Where's the option for unexplainable, minor, but ultimately still barely acceptable in the grand scheme of things?

  • 05.24.2011 1:20 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um: random post. That reviewer guy? Cannot take him seriously after that "basement" bit. Not going to bother listening to the rest.


Now is the point where whatever mutual respect I had left for you diminishes forever.


I'd like to ask how you took that as "perfectly normal" After a brief convo I came to the conclusion it was probably faked, but seriously why the hell was it needed?

I guess I could say the same for you for actually taking this reviewer seriously when he talks in circles and throws in completely random and unneeded -blam!- into a REVIEW...

Oh, pipboy, he's the link, you'll wanna skip to 16:33 on part 1 to see what I'm talking about.
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episod e-1-the-phantom-menace/

  • 05.24.2011 1:23 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um: random post. That reviewer guy? Cannot take him seriously after that "basement" bit. Not going to bother listening to the rest.


Now is the point where whatever mutual respect I had left for you diminishes forever.


I'd like to ask how you took that as "perfectly normal" After a brief convo I came to the conclusion it was probably faked, but seriously why the hell was it needed?

I guess I could say the same for you for actually taking this reviewer seriously when he talks in circles and throws in completely random and unneeded -blam!- into a REVIEW...

Oh, pipboy, he's the link, you'll wanna skip to 16:33 on part 1 to see what I'm talking about.
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episod e-1-the-phantom-menace/



Thanks. His voice is so annoying, he sounds like his cheeks are completely paralysed.

And as soon as he said "So I analysed this movie with a team of cheerleaders...." I closed the window.

That reviewer sucked bad at trying to be funny or informative in the video

[Edited on 05.24.2011 1:52 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 1:47 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: StealthSlasher2
Where's the option for unexplainable, minor, but ultimately still barely acceptable in the grand scheme of things?



I dont want to add more then 3 options because it impairs the ability to get a clean, drawn out conclusion of what the universe population thinks.


If you feel the errors are still acceptable and minor, vote for category 2 but post you find them unexplainable.



[Edited on 05.24.2011 1:53 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 1:51 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um: random post. That reviewer guy? Cannot take him seriously after that "basement" bit. Not going to bother listening to the rest.


Now is the point where whatever mutual respect I had left for you diminishes forever.


I'd like to ask how you took that as "perfectly normal" After a brief convo I came to the conclusion it was probably faked, but seriously why the hell was it needed?

I guess I could say the same for you for actually taking this reviewer seriously when he talks in circles and throws in completely random and unneeded -blam!- into a REVIEW...

Oh, pipboy, he's the link, you'll wanna skip to 16:33 on part 1 to see what I'm talking about.
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episod e-1-the-phantom-menace/



Thanks. His voice is so annoying, he sounds like his cheeks are completely paralysed.

And as soon as he said "So I analysed this movie with a team of cheerleaders...." I closed the window.

That reviewer sucked bad at trying to be funny or informative in the video


You two must be some of the biggest idiots I have ever had the misfortune to meet here, I'm not going to waste my time trying to enlighten this amazing case of idiocy you have managed to conjure up.

  • 05.24.2011 2:06 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
You two must be some of the biggest idiots I have ever had the misfortune to meet here, I'm not going to waste my time trying to enlighten this amazing case of idiocy you have managed to conjure up.


I'm sorry, did my yahoo/google search for the EXACT name you said to look for bring up the wrong guy?

Cause, I'm sure I found the right link. If I came up with some insane whackjob instead of the right guy, PLEASE link to the correct video.

  • 05.24.2011 2:25 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: ajw34307
You two must be some of the biggest idiots I have ever had the misfortune to meet here, I'm not going to waste my time trying to enlighten this amazing case of idiocy you have managed to conjure up.



The entire video is 1 hour and 10 minutes, and just from watching the first 10-15 mins I can tell 3/4's of the review is completely unnecessary and total rubbish.

And why are you defending a clearly awful, unfunny, irrelevant, and annoying reviewer? you seem rather butthurt

[Edited on 05.24.2011 2:29 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 2:27 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

You resort to a lot of fallacies DaeFaron. That is the one thing I have noticed. Nearly every one of your posts in a debate thread invoke some sort of non sequitur argument.

  • 05.24.2011 2:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: anton1792
You resort to a lot of fallacies DaeFaron. That is the one thing I have noticed. Nearly every one of your posts in a debate thread invoke some sort of non sequitur argument.


Afterwards he will then leave or have the argument run in circles.

  • 05.24.2011 3:15 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: anton1792
You resort to a lot of fallacies DaeFaron. That is the one thing I have noticed. Nearly every one of your posts in a debate thread invoke some sort of non sequitur argument.


Afterwards he will then leave or have the argument run in circles.

Pretty much.

DaeFaron, stop that.

  • 05.24.2011 3:28 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: anton1792
You resort to a lot of fallacies DaeFaron. That is the one thing I have noticed. Nearly every one of your posts in a debate thread invoke some sort of non sequitur argument.

And when you try to keep him on track he just throws more fallacies at you cause you're ignoring the pointless portions of his argument.

  • 05.24.2011 3:36 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.

Alright people I'm pretty sure everyone gets the point. The thread is bout discussing how the canon errors of the game and novel rate up (or down), not how the credibility of one member rates up or down.

  • 05.24.2011 3:44 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

both you and coma have the tendency not to listen to something that goes against what you are arguing for.


Wow now, hold up there partner. I listen to every point brought up against Reach, and you may not have encountered it since you've (at least to my knowledge) only somewhat recently joined the debate, but there have been several instances where I've conceded "I don't really have a strong explanation" over an issue. I do not discard any opinion outside of my own as long as the person I am debating with keeps things civil and rational, Just because I argue against what someone is saying does not mean I am not listening to it. I do not agree with most of what the people criticizing Reach say, but I am perfectly willing to listen to what they say, I certainly am not one to shut down the voice of dissent or anything, everyone is entitled to their opinion and are free to speak it.

DaeFaron is rather the same, he'll hear you out and doesn't automatically say "you're wrong be quiet", he might not agree with your opinion, but he'll respect it and if there's a debate he'll debate in a civil and rational manner.

  • 05.24.2011 3:45 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

A debate isn't about opinions or who is more right. Its about what is being discussed and the facts that surround it. The only thing that should be changing is interpretation of those facts yet constantly it seems that those for Reach cleverly disregard some evidence that hurts their argument and accept evidence that helps. On top of that most of your arguments are based on the assumption that canon is not broken, just incomplete. This is based on nothing, and arguments based on nothing lack substance. Without information to base your statements around you cannot hope to have an argument that will convince others.

You are jumping out of a plane with a parachute full of holes. Grey, anton and I are here to point out the holes and tell you why they're there. Its up to you to patch them with the information given. But it seems you would rather jump ship without even trying to fix them.

PS: Civility is not a substitute for selective hearing. You, DeFaron and others only reply to the portions of arguments that you can retort and ignore the rest.

[Edited on 05.24.2011 3:59 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 3:57 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

the difference is we have valid reasons for why we highly dislike the "changes" rather than blindly defending them off minor explanations, making up explanations, and excepting everything just because it is bungie.

The fact they even did something drastic as this is more than enough. And while i do understand we need people like you and coma to balance out arguments. We still shouldn't go around accepting everything bungie does because it is bungie.

That is no different than brown nosing.


I'm not defending Reach simply because it's from Bungie, I defend Reach because I don't think it really messed anything up, and what it did change I think is easily reconcilable with TFoR. And my position would be exactly the same if Reach had come from 343i.

  • 05.24.2011 3:57 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: OrderedComa
I'm not defending Reach simply because it's from Bungie, I defend Reach because I don't think it really messed anything up, and what it did change I think is easily reconcilable with TFoR. And my position would be exactly the same if Reach had come from 343i.

There is your problem. You have no evidence, just opinion and what you "think" or "feel". That is not an argument, but a standpoint. Back it up with facts that support your reasoning. Blind faith gets you nowhere just as a blind opinion won't convince anyone without reasoning behind it supported by objective truths.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

[Edited on 05.24.2011 4:04 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 4:03 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: OrderedComa
I'm not defending Reach simply because it's from Bungie, I defend Reach because I don't think it really messed anything up, and what it did change I think is easily reconcilable with TFoR. And my position would be exactly the same if Reach had come from 343i.

There is your problem. You have no evidence, just opinion and what you "think" or "feel". That is not an argument, but a standpoint. Back it up with facts that support your reasoning. Blind faith gets you nowhere just as a blind opinion won't convince anyone without reasoning behind it supported by objective truths.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstein

Depends on what you mean by blind, I've posted my theories in Caboose's thread, and I believe you evaluated them with criticism. At the end of the day that is all they will be, theories, speculation, whatever you want to call it. I accept your thoughts, but I still may not agree with them.

  • 05.24.2011 4:21 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Depends on what you mean by blind, I've posted my theories in Caboose's thread, and I believe you evaluated them with criticism. At the end of the day that is all they will be, theories, speculation, whatever you want to call it. I accept your thoughts, but I still may not agree with them.

In all honesty proving things flawed is actually the easier road in this. Things really do not match up. The side against reach has far more objective evidence to display for their point than the opposing argument has. The truth is, the canon has a fracture in it and until 343i fixes this fracture (either by reconstructing old canon or doing some odd propaganda thing for Reach, the former being more likely) the side arguing for Reach's canonical sense will remain nothing more than a giant theory based on fan alterations of storyline.

  • 05.24.2011 4:27 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
You are jumping out of a plane with a parachute full of holes. Grey, anton and I are here to point out the holes and tell you why they're there. Its up to you to patch them with the information given. But it seems you would rather jump ship without even trying to fix them.

PS: Civility is not a substitute for selective hearing. You, DeFaron and others only reply to the portions of arguments that you can retort and ignore the rest.


Um, isn't that part of debating? Discussing the areas you know about instead of rambling nonsense about everything?

Anyway, about your comment with the parachute full of holes. I fail to see how me, Coma, Cobra, and others connecting dots and creating theories/figuring out details is "jumping ship without patching or trying to patch the holes." Infact, I'd say it's the opposite.

The thing I notice, if I may call you all out on something since you seem dead-set on calling me out for a slew of things...

Is that you frankly seem to blow things out of proportion. "Reach destroys ALL OF CANON" or all of the Fall of Reach... Or outright ignoring/brushing aside theories posted on how to connect the two. I believe I read one comment which really said from your all end "We shouldn't even be talking about this." That comment being something along the lines of "There isn't a point in discussing theories since we don't know what 343 will do."

edit: In response to Geeks last post...

Then what point is there is bringing up the errors? Seriously if we can't bring up the facts of the storyline and use them to create theories/connections that could fix it, what point is there in bringing up the 'fractures' and blowing it out of whack?

[Edited on 05.24.2011 4:36 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 4:35 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um, isn't that part of debating? Discussing the areas you know about instead of rambling nonsense about everything?

If someone provides evidence you lack knowledge about you should educate yourself in that area, not disregard it.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Anyway, about your comment with the parachute full of holes. I fail to see how me, Coma, Cobra, and others connecting dots and creating theories/figuring out details is "jumping ship without patching or trying to patch the holes." Infact, I'd say it's the opposite.

The thing I notice, if I may call you all out on something since you seem dead-set on calling me out for a slew of things...

Is that you frankly seem to blow things out of proportion. "Reach destroys ALL OF CANON" or all of the Fall of Reach... Or outright ignoring/brushing aside theories posted on how to connect the two. I believe I read one comment which really said from your all end "We shouldn't even be talking about this." That comment being something along the lines of "There isn't a point in discussing theories since we don't know what 343 will do."

There are those kinds of people on both sides. I am not one of them and neither are Anton or Grey. What frustrates me is that specifically you and Coma seem to downplay the importance of certain changes as if it doesn't matter. Such as the time frame.

And about brushing aside theories. That is not what we are doing. We are pointing out conflicting evidence for you to work your theories around. Theories are nothing more than that and just because we point out a problem in your theory doesn't eman we disagree with the idea of making theories just that you haven't considered everything when constructing it. You can't get mad at us for showing you the facts just because it hurts your argument. Nor can you simply ignore those facts for the same reason. And honestly you guys have pulled a similar card with the "not knowing" bit. You have said "we don't have the Halo Bible so we can't say the canon is broken."

I've seen that SEVERAL times and it ends up with wondering about why we're even talking about it if we don't have enough information to do so. Its a self defeating argument.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
edit: In response to Geeks last post...

Then what point is there is bringing up the errors? Seriously if we can't bring up the facts of the storyline and use them to create theories/connections that could fix it, what point is there in bringing up the 'fractures' and blowing it out of whack?

Cause if you don't know what's broken how are you supposed to fix it?

  • 05.24.2011 4:54 PM PDT

join my team Recon Helmet

  • 05.24.2011 5:10 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

You can bring up as many hypotheses as you like but that does not automatically make everything all the better just because it may happen to fit some facts.

The Halo story is more than just a set of mundane dates and events; more than just having characters here, characters there. A few dates may work out with some conservative ret-conning or a few events may be explained by a theory, but they also have to make sense in the context of the Haloverse itself.

Take for example the ODP's.

People say: "Where where the SMAC's? Canons broke!"

Then an apologist will come back with "They were clustered on the other side of the planet/whatever/etc"

That would fix this if all Halo was was a set of dates and events and locations. However it does not make sense in the context of the Haloverse. We have been led to believe that Reach was the Titanic of the stars. We were told how mighty the SMAC's were in TFoR, how Reach was Humanity's last hope. We were therefore expecting to see that, to see the SMAC's sensibly arranged around the planet like a true fortress. A medieval castle would not cluster all of its cannons on one wall, so why does it automatically make sense for Reach to cluster its defences like such? The explanation of "The SMAC's were all in location X" may make sense in regards of "what" but it fails horribly in terms of "why" and ruins the theme and image of what Reach was supposed to be. The SMAC's is just an example by the way. Another I cannot really agree with is how the Covenant got onto Reach in the first place.

You may be able to explain "what", but if the "how" and "why" does not make sense then it is debauching to Halo's story and is useless as an explanation, and I think that is why some are unwilling to accept Reach with loving arms.

Because quite frankly, I don't care if the SMAC's were all at point X, or if the technology that the Covenant used to get to Reach was prototype, the explanations break down beyond that and make no sense in the larger scale of the story.

If this were a join-the-dot puzzle, people who defend Reach will say that all the dots connect. Perhaps they do, but does the resulting picture make any sense?

  • 05.24.2011 5:28 PM PDT

The problem with the Super-MAC thing is, the book frankly described them as just so, being all clustered in one location.

  • 05.24.2011 5:57 PM PDT