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Subject: How strong are Jackals and Skirmishers?

Posted by: Boss of OWNAGE
They can only take one bullet to the head!



Fail.

  • 05.22.2011 8:39 PM PDT
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Jackals and Skirmishers IMO cannot be placed in the same category. Skirmishers have incredibly powerful legs. Have you guys seen a Jackal run before? Regular Jackals seem to be pretty frail, and that's probably why they're best fit as snipers.
On the other hand, Skirmishers DO have the wrist shields, so whose to say they can't have other attachments to, for example, amplify their jump height?
I guess you can't really say with Skirmishers, but I KNOW just about any Marine could take on a Jackal in hand to hand.

  • 05.22.2011 9:18 PM PDT

My name is Legion, for we are many.

Jackals might appear to be weak in the games but that's only because the player takes the role of a Spartan. According to the Halo wiki the average adult Jackal is about 30 cm taller than a human, and if you look at their bodies they're actually quite muscular. In truth they don't need physical strength because they have sharp claws, teeth, and a beak, and if an unfortunate human got into a fight with a Jackal he'd get brutally mauled.
Skirmishers are a different story though. They're much stronger than Elites, seeing as they can run incredibly fast and jump five stories in a single leap. They just don't melee because Elites, Brutes, and Hunters already do that perfectly well.

  • 05.28.2011 9:25 PM PDT

My name is Legion, for we are many.

[This.

They are also fairly animalistic, meaning you would get mauled if you tried to fight one in hand to hand combat. (Unless you're a Spartan or Elite for that matter.)]

Elites and Spartans aren't as fast as Skirmishers though.

[Edited on 05.28.2011 11:03 PM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 11:01 PM PDT

Posted by: n3rdygam3r
Jackals might appear to be weak in the games but that's only because the player takes the role of a Spartan. According to the Halo wiki the average adult Jackal is about 30 cm taller than a human, and if you look at their bodies they're actually quite muscular. In truth they don't need physical strength because they have sharp claws, teeth, and a beak, and if an unfortunate human got into a fight with a Jackal he'd get brutally mauled.
Skirmishers are a different story though. They're much stronger than Elites, seeing as they can run incredibly fast and jump five stories in a single leap. They just don't melee because Elites, Brutes, and Hunters already do that perfectly well.


I agree with everything in this post except where you stated Skirmisher are stronger than Elites. Elites are 8'6 and weigh over 700 pounds of pure muscle which resembles steel because it is so dense. I highly doubt a Skirmisher could match an Elite. A SPARTAN MAYBE, but I highly doubt it with their shielding systems.

  • 05.29.2011 10:22 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I agree with everything in this post except where you stated Skirmisher are stronger than Elites. Elites are 8'6 and weigh over 700 pounds of pure muscle which resembles steel because it is so dense. I highly doubt a Skirmisher could match an Elite. A SPARTAN MAYBE, but I highly doubt it with their shielding systems.

Can you prove anything you just said?

  • 05.29.2011 10:37 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Skirmishers are more agile and than Jackals. You could assume they are also pretty much better in everyway than the standard Jackal except in marksmanship.

  • 05.29.2011 11:05 AM PDT

In CH, Johnson and Byrne didn't have much trouble dealing with Jackals in close combat. So their arm strength is inferior to a strong marine.

  • 05.29.2011 12:05 PM PDT

Okay... everyone is talking about how strong skirmishers must be based on their jump height, but it's being related to human physiology.

Here's an analogy, cats can jump 5 or 6 feet straight up (trust me...I've seen it, it's awesome)

I would never argue that a cat is strong just based on the fact that they can jump high, so bring it up to a larger scale and it really comes down to muscle build and physiology, which is information we just don't have.

I'd say the jackals are perceived pretty well as 'weaker' than most covenant, much like how elites are perceived as far and away the strongest (with that stupid kick thing they do...)

Not to mention different characteristics of the species, they're taller and weigh more but for all we know they're bones are made of a denser material than bone marrow. We don't really have enough information.

  • 05.29.2011 12:08 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I agree with everything in this post except where you stated Skirmisher are stronger than Elites. Elites are 8'6 and weigh over 700 pounds of pure muscle which resembles steel because it is so dense. I highly doubt a Skirmisher could match an Elite. A SPARTAN MAYBE, but I highly doubt it with their shielding systems.

Can you prove anything you just said?


Its in the Beastiarium.

  • 05.29.2011 12:27 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I agree with everything in this post except where you stated Skirmisher are stronger than Elites. Elites are 8'6 and weigh over 700 pounds of pure muscle which resembles steel because it is so dense. I highly doubt a Skirmisher could match an Elite. A SPARTAN MAYBE, but I highly doubt it with their shielding systems.

Can you prove anything you just said?

Its in the Beastiarium.

Nothing of what you said is in the Bestiarium.

In the Bestiarium, Elites are 7'2, 318lbs. The steel reference was describing the Brute's muscles when John fist fought them in First Strike.

^ Jackals were nothing serious for Johnson and Byrne, and the gravity of their homeworld is lower than Earth's which means their bodies will be evolved for a lower gravity environment. It does not definitely say anything but it is more evidence against what you are saying.

And this for skirmishers:

Posted by: Backfjre
Okay... everyone is talking about how strong skirmishers must be based on their jump height, but it's being related to human physiology.

Here's an analogy, cats can jump 5 or 6 feet straight up (trust me...I've seen it, it's awesome)

I would never argue that a cat is strong just based on the fact that they can jump high, so bring it up to a larger scale and it really comes down to muscle build and physiology, which is information we just don't have.

I'd say the jackals are perceived pretty well as 'weaker' than most covenant, much like how elites are perceived as far and away the strongest (with that stupid kick thing they do...)

Not to mention different characteristics of the species, they're taller and weigh more but for all we know they're bones are made of a denser material than bone marrow. We don't really have enough information.

  • 05.29.2011 12:56 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Skirmishers being stronger than Elite's is stupid.

Being incredibly fast and agile would indicate that they are very light but also well muscled, I don't think they would do a lot of heavy lifting, but I have no doubts from the way they move that they are stronger than an person.


Who ever said that thing about cats makes a good point, here I'll relay what I found out about Cougars/Mountain Lions.

Source

Although cougars resemble the domestic cat, they are about the same size as an adult human
This is perfect for our comparison.

Males typically weigh 53 to 100 kilograms (115 to 220 pounds) Halo Wikia states that a Kig-yar wieghs 195 pounds with Skirmishers doubtless weighing slightly more

An exceptional vertical leap of 5.4 m (18 ft) is reported for the cougar.[32]
That seems like something a Skirmisher would be capable of.
Horizontal jumping capability from standing position is suggested anywhere from 6 to 12 m (20 to 40 ft). The cougar can run as fast as 55 to 72 km/h (35 to 45 mi/h),[33] but is best adapted for short, powerful sprints rather than long chases.
This actually sounds quite similar to what Skirmishers are seen doing in Halo Reach.

There is no contest that a Cougar is far stronger than a human being, not an entire league stronger like say a bear, but still no human is going to overpower a Mountain Lion with brute force.

While this comparison is by no means perfect, the physical capabilites of both creatures are pretty similar. While obviously the fact that one is a four legged mammal and the other is a bi pedal vaugley avian-saurian alien, they seem to be pretty comparable in physical feats and size.


Oh also according to the Halo Wikia and apparently Bungie, both Skirmishers and Jackals are of the Kig-yar species. Both originating on Evan with a gravity approx. 0.875(Earth's) G

[Edited on 05.29.2011 1:15 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 1:11 PM PDT

14 years old and proud.

Posted by: Sigma617

Posted by: Makko Mace
Yeah, I'd say normal Jackal is about equal to a fit human male, but skirmishers... They must be ripped, remember the "velociraptors" in Jurassic park? Skirmishers are bigger, stronger faster and smarter.

It would be amazing to play from a marines perspective, and to actually fear the covennant.


ODST got pretty close to that.
Hunters... *shudders*

  • 05.29.2011 1:41 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
I agree with everything in this post except where you stated Skirmisher are stronger than Elites. Elites are 8'6 and weigh over 700 pounds of pure muscle which resembles steel because it is so dense. I highly doubt a Skirmisher could match an Elite. A SPARTAN MAYBE, but I highly doubt it with their shielding systems.

Can you prove anything you just said?

Its in the Beastiarium.

Nothing of what you said is in the Bestiarium.

In the Bestiarium, Elites are 7'2, 318lbs. The steel reference was describing the Brute's muscles when John fist fought them in First Strike.

^ Jackals were nothing serious for Johnson and Byrne, and the gravity of their homeworld is lower than Earth's which means their bodies will be evolved for a lower gravity environment. It does not definitely say anything but it is more evidence against what you are saying.

And this for skirmishers:

Posted by: Backfjre
Okay... everyone is talking about how strong skirmishers must be based on their jump height, but it's being related to human physiology.

Here's an analogy, cats can jump 5 or 6 feet straight up (trust me...I've seen it, it's awesome)

I would never argue that a cat is strong just based on the fact that they can jump high, so bring it up to a larger scale and it really comes down to muscle build and physiology, which is information we just don't have.

I'd say the jackals are perceived pretty well as 'weaker' than most covenant, much like how elites are perceived as far and away the strongest (with that stupid kick thing they do...)

Not to mention different characteristics of the species, they're taller and weigh more but for all we know they're bones are made of a denser material than bone marrow. We don't really have enough information.


Well this post supports my information, and is better thought out than yours, so.... NYYYAAAAAHHHH!!!!

Posted by: Makko Mace
Skirmishers being stronger than Elite's is stupid.

Being incredibly fast and agile would indicate that they are very light but also well muscled, I don't think they would do a lot of heavy lifting, but I have no doubts from the way they move that they are stronger than an person.


Who ever said that thing about cats makes a good point, here I'll relay what I found out about Cougars/Mountain Lions.

Source

Although cougars resemble the domestic cat, they are about the same size as an adult human
This is perfect for our comparison.

Males typically weigh 53 to 100 kilograms (115 to 220 pounds) Halo Wikia states that a Kig-yar wieghs 195 pounds with Skirmishers doubtless weighing slightly more

An exceptional vertical leap of 5.4 m (18 ft) is reported for the cougar.[32]
That seems like something a Skirmisher would be capable of.
Horizontal jumping capability from standing position is suggested anywhere from 6 to 12 m (20 to 40 ft). The cougar can run as fast as 55 to 72 km/h (35 to 45 mi/h),[33] but is best adapted for short, powerful sprints rather than long chases.
This actually sounds quite similar to what Skirmishers are seen doing in Halo Reach.

There is no contest that a Cougar is far stronger than a human being, not an entire league stronger like say a bear, but still no human is going to overpower a Mountain Lion with brute force.

While this comparison is by no means perfect, the physical capabilites of both creatures are pretty similar. While obviously the fact that one is a four legged mammal and the other is a bi pedal vaugley avian-saurian alien, they seem to be pretty comparable in physical feats and size.


Oh also according to the Halo Wikia and apparently Bungie, both Skirmishers and Jackals are of the Kig-yar species. Both originating on Evan with a gravity approx. 0.875(Earth's) G



SUCK IT!

[Edited on 05.29.2011 8:09 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 8:09 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

Also to the people saying how Johnson and Bryne destroyed those Jakcals... Just stop.

They were in 0-G (completely nullifying the strength thing),the humans had guns and had the element of surprise.

That is in no way a fair or balanced fight.

[Edited on 05.29.2011 8:46 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 8:45 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: ThePredkiller2
No, it does not. Not only was every last single thing in that post about Elites utter rubbish, but Makko's post has absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Give me your source for the information on Elites, or shut the fu­ck up. If you don't, then I'll accept that as an admittance of your ridiculous buffoonery.

You are seriously the biggest idiot to curse these forums. Every post of yours is vacuous. I bet now I will get some immature response, full of swear words and petty name calling involving my mom or some stupid sh­it like that...


Posted by: Makko Mace
While obviously the fact that one is a four legged mammal and the other is a bi pedal vaugley avian-saurian alien, they seem to be pretty comparable in physical feats and size.

That makes all the difference. The same reasons for why a cougar is stronger than a Human could be the reason why a Skirmisher would be in a similar position. A Skirmisher is not using its 4 limbs, a cougar is. So therefore a Skirmisher is already less stable.

Digitigrade legs are designed with speed in mind, not stability. The entire bone structure and weight distribution between the two is entirely different. Even between species with similar bone structures there is a difference in strength, like Monkeys and Humans.

Force the cougar to walk on its hind legs, and you will find it a whole lot easier to put on its back.

Posted by: Makko Mace
Also to the people saying how Johnson and Bryne destroyed those Jakcals... Just stop.

They were in 0-G (completely nullifying the strength thing),the humans had guns and had the element of surprise.

That is in no way a fair or balanced fight.

How does it nullify the strength thing? Go and read it. Johnson pinned one against the bulkhead. All the Jackal proceeded to do was claw at him, not push him away. I thought you said these guys were strong...

You are grasping at straws.

  • 05.29.2011 9:20 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

The Jackal was wearing a maintence space suit, not desighned for combat, also in 0-G standard combat is impossible, also the Jackals were not prepared for a fight.

Okay just read it:
The Jackal pushes off a wall with a knife at him. He pins its knife briefly to a beam. Then the Jackal:
"began clawing at Avery's neck and shoulders. But its gloves were bulky and it couldn't do any real damage.
Then he draws a pistol and shoots it in the chin four times.

In 0-G without something to anchor yourself you are quite helpless, the jackal had pushed off a wall prior to this, so it had nothing to brace it's self on.

Example Notice how these guys aren't throwing a lot of punches? How the only time they really strike eachother is when they are holding eachother? Thats because fighting in 0-G is completly different then under normal circumstances.

[Edited on 05.29.2011 9:40 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 9:27 PM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
No, it does not. Not only was every last single thing in that post about Elites utter rubbish, but Makko's post has absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Give me your source for the information on Elites, or shut the fu­ck up. If you don't, then I'll accept that as an admittance of your ridiculous buffoonery.

You are seriously the biggest idiot to curse these forums. Every post of yours is vacuous. I bet now I will get some immature response, full of swear words and petty name calling involving my mom or some stupid sh­it like that...


Posted by: Makko Mace
While obviously the fact that one is a four legged mammal and the other is a bi pedal vaugley avian-saurian alien, they seem to be pretty comparable in physical feats and size.

That makes all the difference. The same reasons for why a cougar is stronger than a Human could be the reason why a Skirmisher would be in a similar position. A Skirmisher is not using its 4 limbs, a cougar is. So therefore a Skirmisher is already less stable.

Digitigrade legs are designed with speed in mind, not stability. The entire bone structure and weight distribution between the two is entirely different. Even between species with similar bone structures there is a difference in strength, like Monkeys and Humans.

Force the cougar to walk on its hind legs, and you will find it a whole lot easier to put on its back.

Posted by: Makko Mace
Also to the people saying how Johnson and Bryne destroyed those Jakcals... Just stop.

They were in 0-G (completely nullifying the strength thing),the humans had guns and had the element of surprise.

That is in no way a fair or balanced fight.

How does it nullify the strength thing? Go and read it. Johnson pinned one against the bulkhead. All the Jackal proceeded to do was claw at him, not push him away. I thought you said these guys were strong...

You are grasping at straws.


how did you curse and not get -blam!-ed?

anyway i agree with you all except the couger part. if if you can get a skirmisher on its back (or a couger) itll still kill you with strength. Whether it be real strength or "fake" power suite strength the skirmishers are tough.

  • 05.29.2011 9:46 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

This is about having the musclature to perform those leaps, not about anything else, However I belive that in terms of size weight and capabilities they are comparable.

Edit: I like your Coup

[Edited on 05.29.2011 10:17 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 10:16 PM PDT

Your world ends with 57

I could imagine Skirmishers being strong in hand-to-hand, but it'd just be easier for them to simply zoom around taking pot shots like they usually do.

  • 05.29.2011 10:16 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: ThePredkiller2
No, it does not. Not only was every last single thing in that post about Elites utter rubbish, but Makko's post has absolutely nothing to do with it whatsoever.

Give me your source for the information on Elites, or shut the fu­ck up. If you don't, then I'll accept that as an admittance of your ridiculous buffoonery.

You are seriously the biggest idiot to curse these forums...


In this place? Hahaha, I honestly doubt that.

  • 05.29.2011 10:24 PM PDT

Jesus loves you! But I think you're a -blam!-

Their strength wouldn't be the issue. It would be those -blam!- teeth and claws.

  • 05.29.2011 11:17 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Makko Mace
In 0-G without something to anchor yourself you are quite helpless, the jackal had pushed off a wall prior to this, so it had nothing to brace it's self on.

And the question arises: Did Johnson have anything to brace himself on? The Jackal had the beam there, he had something to transfer momentum to.

Posted by: Makko Mace
This is about having the musclature to perform those leaps, not about anything else, However I belive that in terms of size weight and capabilities they are comparable.

Speaks nothing for their arm strength, or upper body strength. They share a common trait but it means nothing due to their different body structures - One is Biped, one quadruped. They are not going to have powerful frames anyway due to their homeworlds lower gravity.

  • 05.30.2011 4:03 PM PDT
  • gamertag: ALI217
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I'm gonna finish it. Just like Jigga did to the pyramid.

consider their limbs to be twigs

  • 05.30.2011 4:05 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: ALI217
consider their limbs to be twigs

Their limbs are thicker than an average ODST's limbs.

  • 05.30.2011 5:22 PM PDT

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