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Subject: What if, instead of Reach, we had gotten something darker?
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Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: privet caboose
Red Team's time on Reach was really horrific. The "Invincible" Spartan II's dying everywhere, platoons of marines getting slaughtered by their own CO's, Covenant camps with over 10,000 troops, being resorted to using Hit and Run tactics while the planet is being glassed.

Noble's story was just...blah.
Indeed.

I would have loved to sneak around in the midst of the horrors of genocide in SPI armor, getting a front row seat to the story I already knew and loved. Instead, I got "This is plasma damage." said a painful amount of times, a retarded Dr. Halsey, and a bunch of unnecessary tacked-on plot that only served to bloat and weaken the canon.

I love the game besides all this, but I will say, as a fan, that they missed the mark by miles on capturing the battle of Reach.

That part confused me so much. He says, "There's a lot of blood on the ground." All I see is some bloody footprints.

Then he states that it's plasma damage. WHERE IS THE BLACK BURN MARKS!?

  • 05.23.2011 12:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Onyx81

Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: privet caboose
Red Team's time on Reach was really horrific. The "Invincible" Spartan II's dying everywhere, platoons of marines getting slaughtered by their own CO's, Covenant camps with over 10,000 troops, being resorted to using Hit and Run tactics while the planet is being glassed.

Noble's story was just...blah.
Indeed.

I would have loved to sneak around in the midst of the horrors of genocide in SPI armor, getting a front row seat to the story I already knew and loved. Instead, I got "This is plasma damage." said a painful amount of times, a retarded Dr. Halsey, and a bunch of unnecessary tacked-on plot that only served to bloat and weaken the canon.

I love the game besides all this, but I will say, as a fan, that they missed the mark by miles on capturing the battle of Reach.

That part confused me so much. He says, "There's a lot of blood on the ground." All I see is some bloody footprints.

Then he states that it's plasma damage. WHERE IS THE BLACK BURN MARKS!?


Actually, there was several blood puddles when Emile says that line.

Also, to the "No explosive remains." he goes "Plasma maybe." Doesn't say it was plasma, just goes "Might've been plasma which trashed the warthog.

  • 05.23.2011 1:01 PM PDT

YTMND.COM

Punch The Keyes For God Sake!

Posted by: xgeua
They should have used the revived Spartan IIs washouts that were mentioned instead

The washouts were never revived.

[Edited on 05.23.2011 1:21 PM PDT]

  • 05.23.2011 1:20 PM PDT

Then I would have actually liked Reach's story.

  • 05.23.2011 1:59 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Seeing the corpses of civilians strewn across New Alexandria or groaning in pain, encountering the missing troopers hanging on meathooks, watching buildings crumble, seeing your allies fall one by one.

Yeah, Halo: Reach was all unicorns and rainbows.


Not to say that it wasn't dark, but it wasn't anything that wasn't expected (or seen in any of the other games) and thus, boring

We need some seriously shocking stuff to get the true sense we are screwed across. I mean really mature stuff, Schindler's List/Saving Private Ryan/All Steven Spielberg War Movies kind of stuff.

The game is supposed to be M rated, not T.

  • 05.23.2011 2:02 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Seeing the corpses of civilians strewn across New Alexandria or groaning in pain, encountering the missing troopers hanging on meathooks, watching buildings crumble, seeing your allies fall one by one.

Yeah, Halo: Reach was all unicorns and rainbows.


Not to say that it wasn't dark, but it wasn't anything that wasn't expected (or seen in any of the other games) and thus, boring

We need some seriously shocking stuff to get the true sense we are screwed across. I mean really mature stuff, Schindler's List/Saving Private Ryan/All Steven Spielberg War Movies kind of stuff.

The game is supposed to be M rated, not T.


Actually, exodus and New Alexandria was rather new.

  • 05.23.2011 2:08 PM PDT


Posted by: Techno Greek


Imagine if you will, that instead of playing as a Spartan III, inexplicably moved into the Army and given MKV Armor





Wasn't Ackerson army and thus all the s-III's were as well

[Edited on 05.23.2011 2:21 PM PDT]

  • 05.23.2011 2:10 PM PDT

Pretty much.

  • 05.23.2011 2:14 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Seeing the corpses of civilians strewn across New Alexandria or groaning in pain, encountering the missing troopers hanging on meathooks, watching buildings crumble, seeing your allies fall one by one.

Yeah, Halo: Reach was all unicorns and rainbows.


Not to say that it wasn't dark, but it wasn't anything that wasn't expected (or seen in any of the other games) and thus, boring

We need some seriously shocking stuff to get the true sense we are screwed across. I mean really mature stuff, Schindler's List/Saving Private Ryan/All Steven Spielberg War Movies kind of stuff.

The game is supposed to be M rated, not T.


Actually, exodus and New Alexandria was rather new.


The Civillians in Exodus were more of an annoyance to me then actual human people. They ran around like idiots, or just stood there getting bashed by a Brute. Though Alexandria was pretty good, I still think they missed a huge opurtunity for some seriously dark things in that level.

Bungie's goal was to create a boots in the mud kind of feel; instead I got an over the roof-tops, eye in the sky, distanced from the battle feeling. And thats where Bungie really -blam!- ed up.

Almost the entire battle was away from you; just like in all the other games, you were standing on a cliff, fighting some distanced oupost of Covies whille a huge battle raged beneath you.

This annoyed me so much in fact, I started writing a short fan fiction of how I think the New Alexandria level should have been. I was hoping to post it on here sometime soon.

  • 05.23.2011 2:23 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh



The Civillians in Exodus were more of an annoyance to me then actual human people. They ran around like idiots, or just stood there getting bashed by a Brute. Though Alexandria was pretty good, I still think they missed a huge opurtunity for some seriously dark things in that level.

Bungie's goal was to create a boots in the mud kind of feel; instead I got an over the roof-tops, eye in the sky, distanced from the battle feeling. And thats where Bungie really -blam!- ed up.

Almost the entire battle was away from you; just like in all the other games, you were standing on a cliff, fighting some distanced oupost of Covies whille a huge battle raged beneath you.

.


I honestly agree they did miss a great chance to make a really dark game. I mean they did seem to push you away from a lot of the actually fighting but then again isn't six a Spartan super soldier?

I mean it does make sense to push him/her away from the main battles and to do some behind the scenes stuff. I had no problem with that, but New Alexandria and Exodus really could have been really good if we could see all of the dark bits and horrible things going on around instead of what we had gotten which appeared more cartoony, especially with the civillians.

I do appreciate what bungie did do and I do wish they could have done more but I'm happy overall with what I got, despite the things I wish they put/kept in the game. Ex. Covenant Carbine, Beam rifle, Brute shot, Chopper, ect.

  • 05.23.2011 2:33 PM PDT

About me: I am a vicious wolf of a man.

But really am sweet at heart. =)

This is something Bungie never understood.

Reach was supposed to be character driven, and also a lot darker than other Halo games.

But I found it impossible to take it seriously as either when the Spartans wore brightly colored armor and had art on their helmets. Not to mention the horrible plotholes that destroyed the books and all established canon with no regard whatsoever.

It it had been as the OP said, or followed Blue Team or one of the unnamed Spartan IIs all through the war, we would have gotten a much more satisfying experience.

  • 05.23.2011 2:36 PM PDT
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ODST 2

Epic. It's own game, with a multiplayer too. Love the OP's idea.

[Edited on 05.23.2011 3:00 PM PDT]

  • 05.23.2011 2:59 PM PDT

Posted by: privet caboose
Red Team's time on Reach was really horrific. The "Invincible" Spartan II's dying everywhere, platoons of marines getting slaughtered by their own CO's, Covenant camps with over 10,000 troops, being resorted to using Hit and Run tactics while the planet is being glassed.

Noble's story was just...blah.



this forever.

red team's story is SO much better than Noble's crap.

  • 05.23.2011 3:07 PM PDT


Posted by: HeftyPredator X
ODST 2

Epic. It's own game, with a multiplayer too. Love the OP's idea.
I'd love to see a second ODST. It was much darker (both figuratively and literally) than Reach, and had a much better feel to it all around. ODST accomplished the feeling of Covie occupied New Mombasa very well, IMO.

People don't seem to understand that when I was exited for Reach, I wanted to see a planet of billions of people being burned to glass around a few desperate soldiers who hold the battle lines to the very end. I wanted to see the imposing new Covenant models slaughtering civilians and throwing Spartans in the dirt. I wanted to see Jackals and Grunts devour corpses of Marines tortured to death.

I wanted to get the sensation, like never before, that we're fighting a guerrilla battle against a genocidal, hyper-advanced enemy that we have no hope of defeating, and that we're going to shoot them, stab them, and break them with our own two hands until either a miraculous victory, or we're dust and glass with everything else.




  • 05.23.2011 3:41 PM PDT


Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: privet caboose
Red Team's time on Reach was really horrific. The "Invincible" Spartan II's dying everywhere, platoons of marines getting slaughtered by their own CO's, Covenant camps with over 10,000 troops, being resorted to using Hit and Run tactics while the planet is being glassed.

Noble's story was just...blah.
Indeed.

I would have loved to sneak around in the midst of the horrors of genocide in SPI armor, getting a front row seat to the story I already knew and loved. Instead, I got "This is plasma damage." said a painful amount of times, a retarded Dr. Halsey, and a bunch of unnecessary tacked-on plot that only served to bloat and weaken the canon.

I love the game besides all this, but I will say, as a fan, that they missed the mark by miles on capturing the battle of Reach.



They only say that line once on the first level when Kat's trying to create a temporary fix on Visegrad's communications, I have no idea where you got the idea it was said multiple times. And how is Halsey retarded? She was just the same as she was in the books.

And in regards to what you were saying about the plot of the game, what would you rather have, a story where your character does absolutely nothing truly significant and dies in vain (which is pretty much what the plot for Reach would be going off the book exactly or just defending Reach and nothing else), or a story where your character helps to bring about one of the most significant events of the Halo story's whole universe, even if you don't live to see the results of your actions?

  • 05.23.2011 5:01 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: privet caboose
Red Team's time on Reach was really horrific. The "Invincible" Spartan II's dying everywhere, platoons of marines getting slaughtered by their own CO's, Covenant camps with over 10,000 troops, being resorted to using Hit and Run tactics while the planet is being glassed.

Noble's story was just...blah.
Indeed.

I would have loved to sneak around in the midst of the horrors of genocide in SPI armor, getting a front row seat to the story I already knew and loved. Instead, I got "This is plasma damage." said a painful amount of times, a retarded Dr. Halsey, and a bunch of unnecessary tacked-on plot that only served to bloat and weaken the canon.

I love the game besides all this, but I will say, as a fan, that they missed the mark by miles on capturing the battle of Reach.



They only say that line once on the first level when Kat's trying to create a temporary fix on Visegrad's communications, I have no idea where you got the idea it was said multiple times. And how is Halsey retarded? She was just the same as she was in the books.

And in regards to what you were saying about the plot of the game, what would you rather have, a story where your character does absolutely nothing truly significant and dies in vain (which is pretty much what the plot for Reach would be going off the book exactly or just defending Reach and nothing else), or a story where your character helps to bring about one of the most significant events of the Halo story's whole universe, even if you don't live to see the results of your actions?
I wasn't talking about a game following the story line of the book, I was talking about one staying true to that story line, a side plot elsewhere on the planet during the events of the book that displays the true essence of said events, which is what Reach kind of tried to be, but failed (but I still love it like a handicapped child).

Directly influencing the most significant events in any given series within a tacked-on side-plot usually weakens said events and makes them more cheesy for existing, and Reach is no exception.

I'm trying to press how much better a darker, more standalone story, possibly following real SIIIs, ODSTs, or an ONI operative (instead of a pseudo-epic new team of brightly colored ethnics) witnessing some of the most horrific and iconic scenes of the Haloverse would have been.



  • 05.23.2011 6:00 PM PDT

Pegalesharro Adarsh 9.18.2530 id 397. SIII
V[(0.0)]D
Id...UsEr 397> DeNieD EnTRy
67%warning...,sPace mAy BrEaK
_Th-ey foUnd_
-RuN...-

Hey guys I've pretty much finished that rewrite I planned on making and created a thread for it.

OP since your the one who help give me this idea you should go check out my thread and chip in your own ideas.

  • 05.23.2011 6:42 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Anything, to me, would be better than Reach at this point. Reach was an abomination. A campaign that had no real feel of invasion. No large scale combat, even though Bungie kept boasting about how they can do 40 AI. The story took a squat and crapped all over the canon with terrible characters and had the feeling of some extremely mediocre side-story.


Actually, I'm fairly sure several areas had larger combat then in say halo CE or 3.

However, the area the battle was in was larger, so it didn't seem as big.

Campaign wasn't an abomination to me, certainly felt at times like there was an invasion, or large battle going on.

The Campaign didn't 'crap all over canon' and the characters weren't that terrible. Didn't feel like a side story either to me. Then again, I don't rage over the tiny details.

Haha. I don't know what you were playing. Didn't feel invaded at all. Felt more invaded during the Highway mission in ODST. Covenant cruisers were glasses the planet. Scarabs were walking around. Also...what large scale battles? In Reach, it was almost always no more then small encounters. Remember the Ark in Halo 3? You're in the tank. There are numerous choppers riding around close to you. Wraiths hanging back a bit and barraging you with mortar fire. Brute Chieftan trying to take you out with the fuel rod gun. Then, to top it all over. A Scarab comes down for you to fight. Also, bigger battles on several occasions? Again, what game were you playing? I didn't feel that once. Plus, remember fighting two Scarabs at once in the Hornet? Or the final warthog run when everything is blowing up around you and there's Flood everywhere?

  • 05.23.2011 7:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: privet caboose
Red Team's time on Reach was really horrific. The "Invincible" Spartan II's dying everywhere, platoons of marines getting slaughtered by their own CO's, Covenant camps with over 10,000 troops, being resorted to using Hit and Run tactics while the planet is being glassed.

Noble's story was just...blah.
Indeed.

I would have loved to sneak around in the midst of the horrors of genocide in SPI armor, getting a front row seat to the story I already knew and loved. Instead, I got "This is plasma damage." said a painful amount of times, a retarded Dr. Halsey, and a bunch of unnecessary tacked-on plot that only served to bloat and weaken the canon.

I love the game besides all this, but I will say, as a fan, that they missed the mark by miles on capturing the battle of Reach.


They only say that line once on the first level when Kat's trying to create a temporary fix on Visegrad's communications, I have no idea where you got the idea it was said multiple times. And how is Halsey retarded? She was just the same as she was in the books.

And in regards to what you were saying about the plot of the game, what would you rather have, a story where your character does absolutely nothing truly significant and dies in vain (which is pretty much what the plot for Reach would be going off the book exactly or just defending Reach and nothing else), or a story where your character helps to bring about one of the most significant events of the Halo story's whole universe, even if you don't live to see the results of your actions?
I wasn't talking about a game following the story line of the book, I was talking about one staying true to that story line, a side plot elsewhere on the planet during the events of the book that displays the true essence of said events, which is what Reach kind of tried to be, but failed (but I still love it like a handicapped child).

Directly influencing the most significant events in any given series within a tacked-on side-plot usually weakens said events and makes them more cheesy for existing, and Reach is no exception.

I'm trying to press how much better a darker, more standalone story, possibly following real SIIIs, ODSTs, or an ONI operative (instead of a pseudo-epic new team of brightly colored ethnics) witnessing some of the most horrific and iconic scenes of the Haloverse would have been.


I don't think any adequate game, fitting what Bungie said they wanted for Reach anyway, could have been made with only a two hour long battle.

Well I didn't really think the events in Reach that tied in to CE were at all cheesy, I actually really liked it. And I disagree, it would depend on the event(s) of course, but I don't think the majority of such elements make the story cheesy or weakens the previous events.

  • 05.24.2011 4:11 PM PDT

"Dude, what are you doing right now?"
"Uhh... Heh, my mom."
"Dude... What?"

Give Halo 3:ODST more combat, and Reach's graphics, and I'll be happy.

  • 05.24.2011 4:15 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Or we could have had a story that was based on Red Team from the start of the Battle of Reach (and possibly a history of the Spartan II training program) up until they escaped Reach and even ended up on Onyx. Onyx's ending would have been wonderfully fitting for a last Halo game by Bungie. Three books would be covered and since many of the events in those books dealing with those characters were fairly short we would have had a full game.

  • 05.24.2011 4:17 PM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: WHYTMND
Posted by: xgeua
They should have used the revived Spartan IIs washouts that were mentioned instead

The washouts were never revived.

Yeah they were.

  • 05.24.2011 4:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Gottalovec4
This is something Bungie never understood.

Reach was supposed to be character driven, and also a lot darker than other Halo games.

But I found it impossible to take it seriously as either when the Spartans wore brightly colored armor and had art on their helmets. Not to mention the horrible plotholes that destroyed the books and all established canon with no regard whatsoever.

It it had been as the OP said, or followed Blue Team or one of the unnamed Spartan IIs all through the war, we would have gotten a much more satisfying experience.


Huh... None of the spartans I saw in Reach were wearing brightly color armor, or painted on their helms...

And... what plotholes? Seriously the canon 'breaks' resolved around... one chapter of a single book. I fail to see how they destroyed all of canon.

  • 05.24.2011 4:29 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Huh... None of the spartans I saw in Reach were wearing brightly color armor, or painted on their helms...

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/h alo-reach-noble-team-mcfarlane-toys-statue-legendary-edition-e xtra.jpg
Three of the five have bright armor (blue and yellow), one of them has a giant skull etched into his faceplate (may as well be paint cause I doubt he can see through it properly).


And... what plotholes? Seriously the canon 'breaks' resolved around... one chapter of a single book. I fail to see how they destroyed all of canon.

You seem to forget that Reach conflicts with all books up till Ghots of Onyx in some way, shape or form. The III's (Gosts of Onyx), Halsey's knowledge of them (First Strike), The PoA in atmosphere (The Flood), the PoA's location (Fall of Reach) and lastly the duration of the battle (FoR and First Strike). Plus numerous other conflicts.

  • 05.24.2011 4:35 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Huh... None of the spartans I saw in Reach were wearing brightly color armor, or painted on their helms...

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/h alo-reach-noble-team-mcfarlane-toys-statue-legendary-edition-e xtra.jpg
Three of the five have bright armor (blue and yellow), one of them has a giant skull etched into his faceplate (may as well be paint cause I doubt he can see through it properly).


I'll leave the book thing for other topics, Instead I'll focus on this bit.

Ingame, they aren't that bright colored. No more then Master Chief's shiny green armor in grey or purple hallways.

As for the helm, Emile can see fine. If the skull affected his effectiveness in any way, shape, or form, Carter, Holland, and command would replace it. Seeing as the visor uses a imaging system, Not too hard to imagine the outermost reflective layer can be scratched but not affect vision.

  • 05.24.2011 4:50 PM PDT

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