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Subject: What if, instead of Reach, we had gotten something darker?

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I'll leave the book thing for other topics, Instead I'll focus on this bit.

Ingame, they aren't that bright colored. No more then Master Chief's shiny green armor in grey or purple hallways.

http://haloreachkerrberrsclan.webs.com/HALO_REACH___NOBLE_TEA M_by_spartan283.jpg
Pretty bright to me. And your second comment makes little sense. That's like saying "well marines aren't very hidden inside a hospital". Why in god's name would humans have military colors for Covenant hallways? And why in the hell would MC's armor (a man who operates on the surface of a planet) need to have colors for a spaceship? How many pilots wear forest camo? How many infantrymen wear grey?

Of course, how many infantrymen wear bright blue?

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As for the helm, Emile can see fine. If the skull affected his effectiveness in any way, shape, or form, Carter, Holland, and command would replace it. Seeing as the visor uses a imaging system, Not too hard to imagine the outermost reflective layer can be scratched but not affect vision.

That's flawed logic. Just because no one says anything in a fictional universe doesn't dictate it making sense. he's the only Spartan to screw with his armor to that extent. I'm sure if Halsey saw that she'd wince at the site of her armor being brutalized in such a way.

  • 05.24.2011 5:00 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As for the helm, Emile can see fine. If the skull affected his effectiveness in any way, shape, or form, Carter, Holland, and command would replace it. Seeing as the visor uses a imaging system, Not too hard to imagine the outermost reflective layer can be scratched but not affect vision.

That's flawed logic. Just because no one says anything in a fictional universe doesn't dictate it making sense. he's the only Spartan to screw with his armor to that extent. I'm sure if Halsey saw that she'd wince at the site of her armor being brutalized in such a way.


Yes, she'd wince. But, how is it flawed logic that commanding officers would replace an item if it hampered a Spartan's effectiveness.

Not saying they went "Oh, it's fine." most likely they did get annoyed. However, as his effectiveness is not hampered, there isn't a point in replacing the entire helm and wasting money.

Edit: My point with the "brightly colored" comment was this. People complain about Noble Teams armor being colors which are poor camo, when shiny sage green is -blam!- camo in artic environments. In CE, Chief's armor was rather shiny, and in a sense, bright.

[Edited on 05.24.2011 5:19 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 5:18 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

The look of Nobles team armor is irrelevant in the sense of functionality. The armors were designed to be their alternate faces and seeing as we never see Emiles face it makes for a touch of artistic poetry to have a face etched into the helms visor.

As for a dark Halo game, well.... thats what Reach was meant to be. It was a little dark, but nowhere near as dark as I had imagined it to be. I was thinking we would see entire cities razed to the ground, and hundreds/thousands of military and civilian casualties. But nope, we didnt get that.

  • 05.24.2011 5:30 PM PDT
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They should create a much darker halo game where you do play as a marine and you get to see the innocents getting slaughtered, and vast armies of marines being taken down by the covenant onslaught.
They should add a family factor to the game
ie. your character has a brother that was killed or maybe some of your other comrades had lost family.
It should also reveal the emotional stress of a a seemingly endless war.

  • 05.24.2011 5:38 PM PDT

I think the idea of a darker, gritter story of a losing battle isn't limited to regular soldiers of the UNSC.

Reach could have been just that, and the way everything was set up it had all the potential to be just that. Lone Wolf was an amazing ending to an all underwhelming game, but it's also one that showed that Bungie had the ability to potentially create such a tale.

Think for a moment of New Alexandria and the Halo Wars level where we had to defend civilian transports so they could extract and get the hell out of there.

They were all ultimately shot down, but Halo Wars did it a lot better than Reach did. And I think it can be attributed to the way Bungie approaches Halo games.

Reach felt way to "Chiefy" where I brought the fight to the Covenant rather than the other way around. There is the potential; it just wasn't executed.

  • 05.24.2011 5:44 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yes, she'd wince. But, how is it flawed logic that commanding officers would replace an item if it hampered a Spartan's effectiveness.

Not saying they went "Oh, it's fine." most likely they did get annoyed. However, as his effectiveness is not hampered, there isn't a point in replacing the entire helm and wasting money.

This is a fictional universe, it is easy to make something like that not hamper his performance. The issue here is not whether or not it does, but WHY did he do it? What is the PURPOSE for it? Is it merely a story element with no logical reason behind it just to identify the character from the rest of Noble? I can tell you now that it wasn't needed.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Edit: My point with the "brightly colored" comment was this. People complain about Noble Teams armor being colors which are poor camo, when shiny sage green is -blam!- camo in artic environments. In CE, Chief's armor was rather shiny, and in a sense, bright.

That had to do with the engine and lighting (stylized, not literal). If you look at the renditions of the MJOLNIR Mark V armor in most every other instance it isn't nearly as reflective (even the marines/ODST's had shiny armor in CE). The problem here is particularly the colors themselves. They are not military colors or even tactical colors for that matter. They are light blue, yellow and red. Hell, Jorge looks more like a tractor than a soldier while Carter and Kat look like they're from airport security or rent-a-cops.

  • 05.24.2011 8:14 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As for the helm, Emile can see fine. If the skull affected his effectiveness in any way, shape, or form, Carter, Holland, and command would replace it. Seeing as the visor uses a imaging system, Not too hard to imagine the outermost reflective layer can be scratched but not affect vision.

That's flawed logic. Just because no one says anything in a fictional universe doesn't dictate it making sense. he's the only Spartan to screw with his armor to that extent. I'm sure if Halsey saw that she'd wince at the site of her armor being brutalized in such a way.


Yes, she'd wince. But, how is it flawed logic that commanding officers would replace an item if it hampered a Spartan's effectiveness.

Not saying they went "Oh, it's fine." most likely they did get annoyed. However, as his effectiveness is not hampered, there isn't a point in replacing the entire helm and wasting money.

Edit: My point with the "brightly colored" comment was this. People complain about Noble Teams armor being colors which are poor camo, when shiny sage green is -blam!- camo in artic environments. In CE, Chief's armor was rather shiny, and in a sense, bright.
MJOLNIR is slightly reflective for the purpose of reflecting and dispersing bolts from Covie weapons; it's the same reason *for safety) that industrial cutting lasers aren't often used on shiny things: light energy will bounce off.

Also, Emile's armor deco is entirely retarded and not Spartan=like at all. They would never modify gear in any way that would limit its function, or make them more visible than they already are. There's also no good reason that Carter and Kat fave blue armor. It's just not right.

  • 05.26.2011 5:23 PM PDT

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Inb4friedchicken

  • 05.26.2011 6:18 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

I agree with OP.

Reach was supposed to be dark game; and I didn't feel like it was invaded. More like a skirmish.

Otherwise, SPARTAN-IIs had more rich history, not Noble's crap. That's why this Reach's campaign failed them to win the GOTY awards because of horrible storyline.

And you'll have to realize that it is major canon-breaker since it conflicts with THREE novels: The Fall of Reach, First Strike and Ghosts of Onyx.

First thing to start to witnessing the truly horrors of fall of Reach is- witness of destruction of UNSC Fleet; desperately trying to defend the Reach.

Next, Playing as a SPARTAN-II in Red Team or Blue team, then switch to a ODST to witness the true horrors of covenant onslaught. It was supposed to happen that way. Not this abomination called as: Halo Reach.



  • 05.26.2011 7:52 PM PDT


Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Yes, she'd wince. But, how is it flawed logic that commanding officers would replace an item if it hampered a Spartan's effectiveness.

Not saying they went "Oh, it's fine." most likely they did get annoyed. However, as his effectiveness is not hampered, there isn't a point in replacing the entire helm and wasting money.

This is a fictional universe, it is easy to make something like that not hamper
his performance. The issue here is not whether or not it does, but WHY did he do it? What is the PURPOSE for it? Is it merely a story element with no logical reason behind it just to identify the character from the rest of Noble? I can tell you now that it wasn't needed.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Edit: My point with the "brightly colored" comment was this. People complain.
about Noble Teams armor being colors which are poor camo, when shiny sage green is -blam!- camo in artic environments. In CE, Chief's armor was rather shiny, and in a sense, bright.

That had to do with the engine and lighting (stylized, not literal). If you look at the renditions of the MJOLNIR Mark V armor in most every other instance it isn't nearly as reflective (even the marines/ODST's had shiny armor in CE). The problem here is particularly the colors themselves. They are not military colors or even tactical colors for that matter. They are light blue, yellow and
red. Hell, Jorge looks more like a tractor than a soldier while Carter and Kat look like they're from airport security or rent-a-cops.
.



If your wondering about Emile's visor read, Fistful of Arrows, I know it's not canon but it gives a good explanation and doesn't go against anything previously established. Also how does Reach go against GoO?

[Edited on 05.26.2011 8:59 PM PDT]

  • 05.26.2011 8:56 PM PDT

On Waypoint I'm rocketFox;
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/members/rocketfox/default.aspx

Old GTs; RebelRobot, Flamedude

Yeah I agree, I've said it before but the situation in Halo Reach felt like a small colony world was having a minor skirmish with Covenant forces.

The cutscene at the start of Tip of the Spear is the biggest tease and letdown I've ever experienced in a Halo game. We dont take part in any of that large scale battle, or during any other part of the game at all.

  • 05.26.2011 8:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As for the helm, Emile can see fine. If the skull affected his effectiveness in any way, shape, or form, Carter, Holland, and command would replace it. Seeing as the visor uses a imaging system, Not too hard to imagine the outermost reflective layer can be scratched but not affect vision.

That's flawed logic. Just because no one says anything in a fictional universe doesn't dictate it making sense. he's the only Spartan to screw with his armor to that extent. I'm sure if Halsey saw that she'd wince at the site of her armor being brutalized in such a way.


Yes, she'd wince. But, how is it flawed logic that commanding officers would replace an item if it hampered a Spartan's effectiveness.

Not saying they went "Oh, it's fine." most likely they did get annoyed. However, as his effectiveness is not hampered, there isn't a point in replacing the entire helm and wasting money.

Edit: My point with the "brightly colored" comment was this. People complain about Noble Teams armor being colors which are poor camo, when shiny sage green is -blam!- camo in artic environments. In CE, Chief's armor was rather shiny, and in a sense, bright.
MJOLNIR is slightly reflective for the purpose of reflecting and dispersing bolts from Covie weapons; it's the same reason *for safety) that industrial cutting lasers aren't often used on shiny things: light energy will bounce off.

Also, Emile's armor deco is entirely retarded and not Spartan=like at all. They would never modify gear in any way that would limit its function, or make them more visible than they already are. There's also no good reason that Carter and Kat fave blue armor. It's just not right.



What is so wrong with blue? You can't really say it isn't stealthy, at least not Carter's, because ninjas used blue for their suits and they are the epitome of stealth.

  • 05.26.2011 9:01 PM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!


Posted by: Techno Greek
(Please keep in mind that I enjoy Reach quite a bit, and while I have some issues with it, this thread isn't meant to bash it.)

(Also, this is in Bungie Universe because it pertains more to plot and the Halo Universe than it does to any particular title.)

Imagine if you will, that instead of playing as a Spartan III, inexplicably moved into the Army and given MKV armor (with utterly un-Spartan-like modifications), you played an ODST.

Your character is not really important. Maybe you played as Buck from ODST, or even a Spartan III (a real one, in SPI). That's not the point. The point is, that what if instead of the weak, "character driven" dialog, we had gotten a sad, hopeless story told from the POV of a mortal soldier.

The story would have revolved around showing the player horrific moments during the fall of Reach. Showing marines get slaughtered as civilian transports go down in flames; civilians getting reduced to ash piles in city centers; actual glassing; Spartans getting killed.

You know the scene in ONI Sword Base where the Field Marshal grabs you and roars in your face? Imagine that, and Schindler's List having a baby, and making it into a ten hour campaign.

More on this later, I'm tired.





Noted

  • 05.27.2011 9:15 AM PDT

Don't -blam!- with Kerser!


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
As for the helm, Emile can see fine. If the skull affected his effectiveness in any way, shape, or form, Carter, Holland, and command would replace it. Seeing as the visor uses a imaging system, Not too hard to imagine the outermost reflective layer can be scratched but not affect vision.

That's flawed logic. Just because no one says anything in a fictional universe doesn't dictate it making sense. he's the only Spartan to screw with his armor to that extent. I'm sure if Halsey saw that she'd wince at the site of her armor being brutalized in such a way.


Yes, she'd wince. But, how is it flawed logic that commanding officers would replace an item if it hampered a Spartan's effectiveness.

Not saying they went "Oh, it's fine." most likely they did get annoyed. However, as his effectiveness is not hampered, there isn't a point in replacing the entire helm and wasting money.

Edit: My point with the "brightly colored" comment was this. People complain about Noble Teams armor being colors which are poor camo, when shiny sage green is -blam!- camo in artic environments. In CE, Chief's armor was rather shiny, and in a sense, bright.
MJOLNIR is slightly reflective for the purpose of reflecting and dispersing bolts from Covie weapons; it's the same reason *for safety) that industrial cutting lasers aren't often used on shiny things: light energy will bounce off.

Also, Emile's armor deco is entirely retarded and not Spartan=like at all. They would never modify gear in any way that would limit its function, or make them more visible than they already are. There's also no good reason that Carter and Kat fave blue armor. It's just not right.



What is so wrong with blue? You can't really say it isn't stealthy, at least not Carter's, because ninjas used blue for their suits and they are the epitome of stealth.


All the spartan III's are retarded, they were created by Ackerson what do you expect.

  • 05.27.2011 9:19 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Ninja were also from a feudal Japan. Stealth is a lot more about how you move around than what your are wearing. What you wear helps.

Either way, in a military you wear uniform patters and colors depending on your area of deployment and for what it seems Reach seems to be predominately a Humid Continental climate you'd probably get something along the lines of brown, dark green or grey-green. Cyan and blue are very odd colors period unless you are in an environment with a source of light that creates blue foliage (having a very energetic blue star would result in blue plants, seeing as by reflecting blue light they would protect themselves from the overabundance of energy that kind of star produces).

  • 05.27.2011 1:17 PM PDT

Well, if memory serves the original Noble Team all had blue armor, shown by Kat and Carter having that color armor.

  • 05.27.2011 1:23 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Posted by: SteroidKloud
All the spartan III's are retarded, they were created by Ackerson what do you expect.


Hahahahaha, no.

  • 05.27.2011 1:39 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: SteroidKloud
All the spartan III's are retarded, they were created by Ackerson what do you expect.


Hahahahaha, no.


Be wary RKOSNAKE, it seems the stupid "Spartan IIIs suck in every way shape and form!" crowd has migrated back.

  • 05.27.2011 1:44 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: SteroidKloud
All the spartan III's are retarded, they were created by Ackerson what do you expect.


Hahahahaha, no.


Be wary RKOSNAKE, it seems the stupid "Spartan IIIs suck in every way shape and form!" crowd has migrated back.


Just call me Snake and, well, I guess it's time to get the weapons ready. Has anybody seen my pitchfork?

  • 05.27.2011 1:48 PM PDT


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Posted by: SteroidKloud
All the spartan III's are retarded, they were created by Ackerson what do you expect.


Hahahahaha, no.


Be wary RKOSNAKE, it seems the stupid "Spartan IIIs suck in every way shape and form!" crowd has migrated back.


Just call me Snake and, well, I guess it's time to get the weapons ready. Has anybody seen my pitchfork?


No, but I've got some torches if you want :P

  • 05.27.2011 2:01 PM PDT

If your a good gunner, got a mic, and need a driver, then I'm your wheelman.

It would have been cool for a darker game. Like getting to see the slaughter of the people, and the fleet being wiped out. Maybe an idea more like Doom 3 or Metro 2033 where everything is in destitude, and you witness the total fall, and then fight your way to escape, and die right as you enter an escape pod/ship. This type of game/story/ending would have been better instead of the weak ending and more "kid friendly" story and game play. I mean Reach is a fall of a planet like Independance Day, Deep Impact or War of the Worlds. Millions are being killed, emotions are severely pulled, but Reach does not give us much of this emotional effect. If 343 can make a darker Halo game, then please do. We are waiting.

  • 05.27.2011 2:06 PM PDT

Once a Mythic, always a Mythic. '04 or Bust.
Extr3me Escalator Diving

Elites of War
Indeed

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, if memory serves the original Noble Team all had blue armor, shown by Kat and Carter having that color armor.


Makes sense to me.

  • 05.27.2011 2:14 PM PDT


Posted by: DeathBySniper
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, if memory serves the original Noble Team all had blue armor, shown by Kat and Carter having that color armor.


Makes sense to me.
I still don't see why Bungie felt the need to put Noble in MKV. I would have much rather seen their take on SPI.

I would have preferred more stealth, and a mission that was primarily assassinations.

  • 05.28.2011 7:25 PM PDT


Posted by: Techno Greek

Posted by: DeathBySniper
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Well, if memory serves the original Noble Team all had blue armor, shown by Kat and Carter having that color armor.


Makes sense to me.
I still don't see why Bungie felt the need to put Noble in MKV. I would have much rather seen their take on SPI.

I would have preferred more stealth, and a mission that was primarily assassinations.


Because Kurt was outfitting these squads as Spartan IIs, not IIIs. He wanted them to have the best gear possible.

  • 05.28.2011 7:54 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Because Kurt was outfitting these squads as Spartan IIs, not IIIs. He wanted them to have the best gear possible.

Depending on when they were taken from their squads (assuming they ever were) then they would not have any experience in MJOLNIR prior to PROMETHEUS and/or TORPEDO. They were trained in the use of the SPI armor, not MJOLNIR. In fact the only MJOLNIR present on ONYX was Kurt's, and he didn't receive the Mark V (if I remember correctly).

Still, from a mechanics standpoint and gameplay standpoint it would have been far more interesting to play through Reach in SPI armor utilizing the active camo systems it employed.

[Edited on 05.28.2011 8:06 PM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 8:05 PM PDT

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