Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: Whats with the lag.
  • Subject: Whats with the lag.
Subject: Whats with the lag.

Why do Halo Combat Evolved PC and Halo 2 PC lag so much?

  • 05.24.2011 2:46 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

If you're talking about visual lag/framerate drops, it's cause your PC sucks.

If you're talking about network lag and have pings over 100, your 'net connection sucks.

Since you noted that H2 lags as well, you're probably not talking solely about H1's hitbox lag, so it's gotta be one of those two. So you can pretty much figure the answer yourself from here.

  • 05.24.2011 3:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: DusK

If you're talking about network lag and have pings over 100, your 'net connection sucks.
(To DusK): You can't possibly blame lag completely on someone's Internet type when talking about Halo PC.

(To OP): Simply put, Halo PC's netcode is the worst netcode I've ever seen in a video game to date. It was made that way to allow for Dial-Up players, but, it ended up making everyone's experience worse for it. It doesn't matter how wonderful your Internet is, Halo PC will lag. Halo 2 Vista has less lag, but, many more problems to worry about.

Halo PC's lag actually adds to the skill gap (The leading of the shots. It's an extremely difficult thing to do) but it's mainly just an annoyance.

[Edited on 05.24.2011 6:12 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 6:11 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Dr Syx
Simply put, Halo PC's netcode is the worst netcode I've ever seen in a video game to date.

Wait, you're actually gonna say that after playing Halo 3 and Halo Reach?

Are you on drugs or something?

  • 05.24.2011 6:15 PM PDT

Halo 3

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Dr Syx
Simply put, Halo PC's netcode is the worst netcode I've ever seen in a video game to date.

Wait, you're actually gonna say that after playing Halo 3 and Halo Reach?

Are you on drugs or something?

uh...

  • 05.24.2011 7:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Dr Syx
Simply put, Halo PC's netcode is the worst netcode I've ever seen in a video game to date.

Wait, you're actually gonna say that after playing Halo 3 and Halo Reach?

Are you on drugs or something?
You're seriously going to say, after all the time you've spent on Halo PC, that it's netcode is better than that of Halo 3 and Reach? Really? Who's really on drugs here? That's even greater bias towards the game than the Halo 2 fans saying that huge hitboxes were necessary for online play due to lag.

You yourself posted before about Halo PC's poor netcode. That they did have a proper netcode before Gearbox decided to design it so that Dial-Up players could play as well.

Essentially this:

On Halo 2, you can somehow get a headshot when aiming 3 feet away from someone's head

On Halo PC, you HAVE to aim 3 feet away from someone's head to get a headshot (That's not due to bullet speed. It happens up close, even with melees. That's just terrible netcode.)

[Edited on 05.24.2011 8:28 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 8:10 PM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Dr Syx
You're seriously going to say, after all the time you've spent on Halo PC, that it's netcode is better than that of Halo 3 and Reach? Really? Who's really on drugs here? That's even greater bias towards the game than the Halo 2 fans saying that huge hitboxes were necessary for online play due to lag.

Alright, so check this out. There are these two games, see? They have two types on online mutliplayer. The first one is entirely client-hosted, which puts you at the mercy of the host's connection. So while he's sailing through without a problem, you get to rubber-band all over the place, andf watch everyone else do the same. Until his connection starts turning to crap or he disconnects, in which case you get to stare at the scoreboard for a good 30-45 seconds while the game sluggishly decides who is worthy to carry the host banner. But a nice long break in the action is a good thing, right?

And then there's the co-op netcode, where Bungie decided to be pioneers, and use a lockstep protocol, completely forgetting that there's a very good reason why no game developer would ever EVER be stupid enough to even consider that option. The result is an opportunity to ice-skate with your friends while you struggle to shoot Covies and Flood with a full-second delay between the pull of the trigger and your gun actually doing something about it.

Yeah, those games' netcode sure are freakin' wonderful.

Posted by: Dr Syx
You yourself posted before about Halo PC's poor netcode. That they did have a proper netcode before Gearbox decided to design it so that Dial-Up players could play as well.

I said the game has bad netcode. But it's nowhere near the worst, especially compared to other games in the Halo series.

  • 05.24.2011 8:34 PM PDT
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1. When the host decides to quit/the dedicated server stops on Halo PC, what happens? The game ends. How is that better than continuing the game and waiting a bit for it to change?

2. Halo PC doesn't even have Co-Op, therefore, you can't compare those two netcodes.

3. Like I said before, you have to aim 3 feet in front of someone with psychic abilities to do anything on Halo PC. There are many times where even the host can't just aim at the head and shoot. You're completely blind not to see that is a terrible netcode. Much worse than the netcode on the later Halo games.

4. (Related to 1) The changing hosts isn't a part of the netcode. That's just a game function that allows people to carry on with their games not completely depending on one server to host a match.

[Edited on 05.24.2011 9:15 PM PDT]

  • 05.24.2011 9:14 PM PDT
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Posted by: DusK
And then there's the co-op netcode, where Bungie decided to be pioneers, and use a lockstep protocol, completely forgetting that there's a very good reason why no game developer would ever EVER be stupid enough to even consider that option.


There was nothing pioneering or stupid about their decision to use a lockstep model for firefight/co-op. They didn't really have a huge amount of choice.

Large amounts of deterministic AI required in a situation where upstream bandwidth is limited? Lockstep. It's pretty much the model of choice for RTS networking for this reason.

Posted by: DusK
Until his connection starts turning to crap or he disconnects, in which case you get to stare at the scoreboard for a good 30-45 seconds while the game sluggishly decides who is worthy to carry the host banner. But a nice long break in the action is a good thing, right?


Irritating, sure. It's just part of 'P2P' (scarequotes because it's not quite P2P) gaming.

Although nobody outside of Bungie and the XBL team are privy to the exact details, I'd imagine that there's quite a lot for the game to do during the downtime in order to find a suitable host.

Their networking system has to locate a single player in the game with an open NAT that's able to establish a connection to every other player in the game. If one cannot be found, players are going to be dropped from the game. Whether it does this by trial and error before selecting a new host or uses existing records based on the original host selection process, I wouldn't know but it would explain the length of time it takes. After that, the full game state has to be distributed to every remaining player. Once that's done, I guess you're off again.

[Edited on 05.25.2011 5:02 AM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 4:43 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.


Posted by: Dr Syx
1. When the host decides to quit/the dedicated server stops on Halo PC, what happens? The game ends. How is that better than continuing the game and waiting a bit for it to change?

2. Halo PC doesn't even have Co-Op, therefore, you can't compare those two netcodes.

3. Like I said before, you have to aim 3 feet in front of someone with psychic abilities to do anything on Halo PC. There are many times where even the host can't just aim at the head and shoot. You're completely blind not to see that is a terrible netcode. Much worse than the netcode on the later Halo games.

4. (Related to 1) The changing hosts isn't a part of the netcode. That's just a game function that allows people to carry on with their games not completely depending on one server to host a match.


1. Dedis never stop, only peer hosted games in Colombia do.
3. Same with H3. All the BNET kids moaned about lag because they couldn't lead.

  • 05.25.2011 7:34 AM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Btcc22
Posted by: DusK
And then there's the co-op netcode, where Bungie decided to be pioneers, and use a lockstep protocol, completely forgetting that there's a very good reason why no game developer would ever EVER be stupid enough to even consider that option.


There was nothing pioneering or stupid about their decision to use a lockstep model for firefight/co-op. They didn't really have a huge amount of choice.

Large amounts of deterministic AI required in a situation where upstream bandwidth is limited? Lockstep. It's pretty much the model of choice for RTS networking for this reason.

That's ridiculous. The AI in both of those games is both pants-on-head retarded and sparse, especially compared to the AI and the abundance of it in other games such as Left 4 Dead, which doesn't use lockstep. Bungie just got lazy. That's really the bottom line.

  • 05.25.2011 7:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: DusK
That's ridiculous. The AI in both of those games is both pants-on-head retarded and sparse, especially compared to the AI and the abundance of it in other games such as Left 4 Dead, which doesn't use lockstep. Bungie just got lazy. That's really the bottom line.


There are pretty big differences in how the AI in the games work, making it far less ideal for Halo to use the same networking model. This is a fairly interesting read if you want to learn more.

  • 05.25.2011 8:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: JacobGRocks

Posted by: Dr Syx
1. When the host decides to quit/the dedicated server stops on Halo PC, what happens? The game ends. How is that better than continuing the game and waiting a bit for it to change?

2. Halo PC doesn't even have Co-Op, therefore, you can't compare those two netcodes.

3. Like I said before, you have to aim 3 feet in front of someone with psychic abilities to do anything on Halo PC. There are many times where even the host can't just aim at the head and shoot. You're completely blind not to see that is a terrible netcode. Much worse than the netcode on the later Halo games.

4. (Related to 1) The changing hosts isn't a part of the netcode. That's just a game function that allows people to carry on with their games not completely depending on one server to host a match.


1. Dedis never stop, only peer hosted games in Colombia do.
3. Same with H3. All the BNET kids moaned about lag because they couldn't lead.
You're sort of right about dedis not shutting off, but,they do whenever they're down for repair. Then again, the Master Server for 3/Reach does that as well.

Halo 3's lead wasn't much of a problem at all. There's so little lead that most of the time your crosshairs are still on the person's head. On Halo PC you have to aim a good 3 feet in the direction in which the people are walking. That's not even an over-dramatic distance. I also know for certain that's not due to my Internet, it's apparent in every montage I've ever seen for Halo PC as well. Example

If any game out of the entire Halo series holds the most nostalgia/bias to me, it would have to be Halo PC. So much so that the terrible netcode makes my heart feel fuzzy and warm. Though I do enjoy it, I can't deny that it is incredibly terrible. One of the very few mistakes Gearbox made with making the Halo PC port.

For Christ's sake, is there any other game you know of that you have to lead your melee to kill someone? That you can be so close to someone's back you're touching them, yet, when you melee you don't assassinate them?

[Edited on 05.25.2011 11:25 AM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 11:22 AM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

I can't really think of a game where you lose stuff you had when host switching either, such as armor abilities, streaks, and even score. Not even Halo PC and its "atrocious" netcode had that.

  • 05.25.2011 12:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: DusK
I can't really think of a game where you lose stuff you had when host switching either, such as armor abilities, streaks, and even score. Not even Halo PC and its "atrocious" netcode had that.
I can't really think of a time I've ever had that happen to me on Reach, either. It seems to me that's a rare thing. That's also something that would happen when someone is either lag switching or just has terrible Internet. Halo PC's terrible netcode is a constant through any type of Internet you have. I'd rather randomly lose my armor abilities for one life 1 out of 2,000 games than have to lead everything by 3 feet 2,000 out of 2,000 games I play.

  • 05.25.2011 12:39 PM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Either you're lying, or I and the random people I've played Reach with are very unlucky. Every time the host switched mid match, every single time, everyone lost their armor abilities. Most of the time, someone's team dropped a couple of kills in Team Slayer, and once we saw a flag capture disappear.

No other AAA title has such massive screw-ups with their netcode.

  • 05.25.2011 1:09 PM PDT
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Sup.

Posted by: DusK
Either you're lying, or I and the random people I've played Reach with are very unlucky. Every time the host switched mid match, every single time, everyone lost their armor abilities. Most of the time, someone's team dropped a couple of kills in Team Slayer, and once we saw a flag capture disappear.

No other AAA title has such massive screw-ups with their netcode.


Wow, you're the biggest Halo PC fanboy ever. You're even worse than totallymassive, in terms of trying to justify your opinion.

Reach's netcode>>>>>>>>>Halo 3 Netcode>>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>Superman 64>Halo PC Netcode

[Edited on 05.25.2011 1:49 PM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 1:49 PM PDT

Posted by: Nessy

The bungie.net community is the halo PC community that is renowned for being unbelieveably sucky.

Halo PC netcode is horrible, but it is consistent game after game after game.

  • 05.25.2011 1:49 PM PDT

trolololololololol

  • 05.25.2011 2:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: DusK
Either you're lying, or I and the random people I've played Reach with are very unlucky. Every time the host switched mid match, every single time, everyone lost their armor abilities. Most of the time, someone's team dropped a couple of kills in Team Slayer, and once we saw a flag capture disappear.

Okay, who really seems like they're lying. A guy that says he's rarely seen it, but doesn't deny its existence or the guy saying it happens every single time there is a host migration. Am I seriously the one that this doesn't happen to every time? I had one instance back in a Squad Slayer match where someone hit a lag switch which caused us to go without armor abilities for one life. Did it really make that much of a difference? No.


No other AAA title has such massive screw-ups with their netcode.I haven't even noticed a full scale massive screw up. The losing the abilities is pretty bad, but, as I said before, that was due to a lag switch. The netcode works so well in game that it feels as though I'm playing LAN. There's rarely a time where I feel like lag is effecting the game.


Posted by: Frnksnbns
Halo PC netcode is horrible, but it is consistent game after game after game.
If you're getting worse ping on another server you have to lead farther. Opposite effect if it's a better ping on the next one. Not only that, you might have fluxes in ping (Which happens every game with me) to where you'll randomly have to lead farther/closer. That's no where near consistent in my mind. Even if it were consistent, that would mean it consistently sucks whereas Reach sucks on rare occasion.

Before thinking that I have bias against Halo PC, you should know that I play Halo PC more than the newer Halos most days. I have more love for it than any other Halo. It's just that I don't deny the parts of it that are the worst out of the series. I praise everything that is beautiful about it (which is in extreme abundance) and admit the negative (Which is in the very few)

[Edited on 05.25.2011 6:30 PM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 6:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: Dr Syx
Am I seriously the one that this doesn't happen to every time?


To be fair (I've been far too fair in this thread), back when I actually played Reach, I experienced frequent host migration issues ranging from old round timers carrying over into new rounds, resulting in <10 second rounds, missing armour abilities for the most part of the game, dodgy scores and so on.

You may have noticed that when a player respawns, you can see them picking up their chosen armour ability a split second after. This didn't used to happen so I'm guessing they just added some kind of delay/different mechanic as a workaround to the problem.

Of all the Halo netcodes, Reach's probably has had the largest number of bugs.

[Edited on 05.25.2011 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 05.25.2011 6:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Btcc22

Posted by: Dr Syx
Am I seriously the one that this doesn't happen to every time?


To be fair (I've been far too fair in this thread), back when I actually played Reach, I experienced frequent host migration issues ranging from old round timers carrying over into new rounds, resulting in <10 second rounds, missing armour abilities for the most part of the game, dodgy scores and so on.

You may have noticed that when a player respawns, you can see them picking up their chosen armour ability a split second after. This didn't used to happen so I'm guessing they just added some kind of delay/different mechanic as a workaround to the problem.

Of all the Halo netcodes, Reach's probably has had the largest number of bugs.
Ah okay, I could see that. I might just be one of the lucky ones that this rarely happens with. I've seen the picking up of armor abilities before, but, that doesn't really seem to be that bad of a bug (Unless it goes to full effect which is no abilities, even then it's only 1 life)

I can't deny that host migration happens frequently on Halo: Reach. It happens tons on all the Xbox Live games I've played. In reality we can blame Microsoft for that sort of stuff, not the game or the netcode. It's just that Halo PC's netcode is a constant negative effect that really messes with the game's gameplay. At the same time, it does add an increase of skill gap, so, therefore it's a bad thing and a good thing.

  • 05.25.2011 6:36 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Bullet Spread
Wow, you're the biggest Halo PC fanboy ever. You're even worse than totallymassive, in terms of trying to justify your opinion.

Reach's netcode>>>>>>>>>Halo 3 Netcode>>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;>Superman 64>Halo PC Netcode

So lemme get this straight; I put reasoning in my posts, detailing from experience exactly why I'm saying what I'm saying, and that makes me a fanboy. Your post ONLY consists of calling me a fanboy and stating an opinion un-backed by any information whatsoever, and then you try to call me out on not being able to justify my opinion correctly when you did the same thing you're criticizing me for in the very post you're trying to make your point in.

Hypocrisy abound these days. Don't post again until you've removed your head from your sphincter, please.

[Edited on 05.26.2011 12:11 AM PDT]

  • 05.26.2011 12:02 AM PDT

This is the average H2 Fanboy.
Xfire: JacobGRocks.
50 in H2/H3? Great, but you still fail at this.

I had major host migration glitches in the beta and the final game too.

Oh, and I don't think you've seen TotallyOCD post spamming:

Posted by: totallymassive
it's bound to happen, it's human nature to be ignorent when ever possible.

it is in the OP best intrest to post in other threads to increase the influence of this topic in this forum.

If they don't want to do that, that is their own problem.


Posted by: o0MrCheesy0o
Really. Another of these threads. How many are already on the front page? And you make another. As if people haven't answered this question a million times.


In another thread, he wants HPC/Halo 1 to be like Halo 2, then posts a flawed video comparasion:
http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=60692393&p ostRepeater1-p=1#60760951


Posted by: totallymassive
I'll get started by saying it should be similar to H2, be at least 12 v 12, new larger maps, make it flow better by adding aim assist and larger hit boxes, take away the pistol's power, add new weapons, make vehicles that respect gravity and don't float (unless they are meant to i.e. ghoust, but not a warthog), add button combos, out of map exploration, super bounces, sword flying, butter flying, how jumping, allow modding in custom games, no private chat (teams must talk to each other), add quick reloads, and make jumping the same as halo2 plus etc.


Posted by: totallymassive
lag has less effect in laggy conditions with larger hit boxes and auto assist. Therefore 12v12 is possible.

8v8 was amazing in h2 because it had better lag compensation features then any halo before or after. it could have handled 12v12 were as all other halos had trouble with 8v8 and making it fun for everyone (not just host).

it would also improve laggy conditions caused by anything that causes lag.

for lan h1 is fun with low hit boxes and auto assist but the reality of the internet makes it less fun to play as is.
Posted by: A Random Turtle
Ok then. How would bigger hitboxes and more auto aim be an improvement?



Posted by: totallymassive
well I have watched quite a few CE MP games over the internet and they are very sad...

Lan montages are quite well done though because no lag.

Online

Lan

See bullets actually hit during Lan and it doesn't when online.



This, my friends, is a true fanboy.

  • 05.26.2011 6:42 AM PDT

Halo 3

this threads fricken hilarious

  • 05.26.2011 7:46 AM PDT