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This topic has moved here: Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts
  • Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts
Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts


Posted by: wswartzendruber
I can see where you're coming from, but by reissuing this 2001 book in 2011, are they not giving it their blessing?


Yes and no, I see it the same as Bungie saying "the two fit perfectly" seeing as 343i hasn't said anything about the reissue other than they've reissued it. If they meant for TFoR to take higher canon priority than Reach I think they would have mentioned that fact.

  • 05.27.2011 10:55 AM PDT

I am a monument to all your sins

game canon trumps all canon, including new book canon. Halo: Reach will always take precedence over any book.

  • 05.27.2011 11:12 AM PDT

Bungie Studios didn't say the two match. Markus Lhetto even said they took liberties with it.

  • 05.27.2011 11:33 AM PDT


Posted by: wswartzendruber
Bungie Studios didn't say the two match. Markus Lhetto even said they took liberties with it.


Actually they did, I don't know if you watched the Legendary Commentary or not, but they did say that the two matched completely.

  • 05.27.2011 11:35 AM PDT

What, is this some kind of a joke?

  • 05.27.2011 12:00 PM PDT

I'm dead serious, they say that in the commentary at the segment on Nightfall, look it up on Youtube if you don't believe me :/

  • 05.27.2011 12:07 PM PDT

Posted by: Darthbill99
game canon trumps all canon, including new book canon. Halo: Reach will always take precedence over any book.

Is that in terms of how canonical it is or in terms of how seriously we take it?

  • 05.27.2011 12:18 PM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307

Posted by: JDYeash937 MkII
Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: wswartzendruber
It seems to me that we're getting some really mixed signals on what's going on here.

Game canon trumps book canon. Some of us really like The Fall of Reach, but fair enough. However, later canon trumps earlier canon. Technically, as this book is a new print for 2011, those parts of the game have been voided. But at the same time, that's just silly as Halo is a game first and a book second, making this release pointless.

I don't see how it trumps it though since it doesn't change anything.

What he is trying to say, is that the book released in 2011 contradicts the events of the game released in 2010, and as new canon trumps old canon, it should make the events of Reach irelivant.

However, game canon trumps all other canon!
The question is, can game canon trump a book that was released after the game?
Game canon should not trump book canon on the basis that games' storylines have to be written completely differently to a book would, because of fitting it in with enjoyable gameplay.

If Halo had MGSlol levels of cutscene just to improve the viability of canon, I think many would simply stop playing it.

I actually quite like the explanation someone once gave, saying that Reach was a game released in the Haloverse after the war to make the Battle of Reach seem much more valiant than it actually was.


So the game could be like ONI propaganda after the war? I like this idea.


As I've pointed out before that theory has a couple mighty big holes in it. Like for instance the way the "in universe" letter that came with the game and some people have used as evidence. The letter is between two ONI officials, and they would know the actual details about how long Reach took to fall and how long the battle actually was, if it was intended to be completely proganda, the letter would have been written that, it would not have said "this is the most complete account of the Battle of Reach and the actions of Noble Team during it" if Reach was intended to just be a bunch of ONI propaganda the ONI officials would not have referred to the information within as fact. It would have been written more like this if it was supposed to be entirely propoganda "here's the official story that the higher ups have decided on and want to go down on the history books". And I'm not saying ONI would suddenly come out and tell the truth after the war, but why would they continue making more lies to improve morale when there is no more war going and no more need to improve the morale to keep fighting? That just completely flies in the face of common sense.

  • 05.27.2011 3:02 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
I'm dead serious, they say that in the commentary at the segment on Nightfall, look it up on Youtube if you don't believe me :/


Yep, Marty asks "How does this fit canon-wise."

and the reply is that is does fit.

  • 05.27.2011 3:11 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: OrderedComa
I'm dead serious, they say that in the commentary at the segment on Nightfall, look it up on Youtube if you don't believe me :/


Yep, Marty asks "How does this fit canon-wise."

and the reply is that is does fit.


It is completely undeniable they took some serious "liberties" to put it nicely, however.

  • 05.27.2011 5:40 PM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Is it just me or is anyone else getting very tired of discussing how Halo:Reach messed with canon. The two sides are entrenched with one being clearly right. I say we just move on.

  • 05.27.2011 5:56 PM PDT

TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.

  • 05.27.2011 6:00 PM PDT

LOL...so much for "definitive".

Halo 4 or whatever is at E3 better be worth it.

[Edited on 05.27.2011 6:09 PM PDT]

  • 05.27.2011 6:08 PM PDT

Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

  • 05.27.2011 7:08 PM PDT

You think they will REWRITE a book beacouse "fanboys" cant figure out the "errors"

  • 05.27.2011 7:09 PM PDT

Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.

[Edited on 05.27.2011 7:10 PM PDT]

  • 05.27.2011 7:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Spartan1065
Is it just me or is anyone else getting very tired of discussing how Halo:Reach messed with canon. The two sides are entrenched with one being clearly right. I say we just move on.

It wouldn't be an issue if 343 Industries didn't keep maintaining the "outdated" canon that, evidently, isn't so outdated.

  • 05.27.2011 7:11 PM PDT

If we're wrong, why did Markus Lhetto admit to taking liberties?

  • 05.27.2011 7:12 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.

  • 05.27.2011 7:20 PM PDT

What's FoPJ? I know the Halo Wars timeline backs the book.

  • 05.27.2011 7:24 PM PDT

Posted by: Docterweegee
You think they will REWRITE a book beacouse "fanboys" cant figure out the "errors"

No, I don't expect that. What I do expect, however, is for them to no longer make updated releases of it.

  • 05.27.2011 7:25 PM PDT

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.

I dont know what Fopj is, But I am going to assume the covies. The comm was offline. Did you not play the first part of the game?

  • 05.27.2011 7:33 PM PDT

Posted by: wswartzendruber
Posted by: Docterweegee
You think they will REWRITE a book beacouse "fanboys" cant figure out the "errors"

No, I don't expect that. What I do expect, however, is for them to no longer make updated releases of it.

You are right about that. Its all about the money.

  • 05.27.2011 7:34 PM PDT

Yeah, I played the first part of the game. I also played the part of the game where the "whole damn Covenant fleet" shows up eighteen days early for all to see.

[Edited on 05.27.2011 7:46 PM PDT]

  • 05.27.2011 7:45 PM PDT


Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.

I dont know what Fopj is, But I am going to assume the covies. The comm was offline. Did you not play the first part of the game?


It stands for the Fleet of Particular Justice, the armada that arrived all at once on a single day and destroyed all of Reach on a single day, the one that the game didn't even bother to name.

  • 05.27.2011 7:56 PM PDT