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This topic has moved here: Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts
  • Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts
Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts


Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.


The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.

  • 05.27.2011 8:18 PM PDT

Hey that's fine and dandy, but why are Keyes and everyone else in the book shocked to see the Covenant on the 30th?

  • 05.27.2011 8:34 PM PDT


Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.

I dont know what Fopj is, But I am going to assume the covies. The comm was offline. Did you not play the first part of the game?


FoPJ=Fleet of Particular Justice.

So you expect us to believe the planet Reach (700,000,000 people) didn't notice hundreds upon hundreds of Covenant warships descending down on the planet, obliterating defenses, cities and people for 3 whole days because someone's phone line got disconnected?

Or the Supercarrier, a 27 kilometer behemoth that makes the entire UNSC fleet look like kids with sticks, went completely unnoticed for half a month even after it decloaked?

The incineration of a good quarter of the planet half a month before August 30th?

The complete and total lack of a defensive fleet at the planet Reach? Our last fortress among the stars?

All of that and many others don't contradict the book?

  • 05.27.2011 9:16 PM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.


The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.


According to the game, they showed up on August 27th

  • 05.27.2011 9:17 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: OrderedComa

The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.


According to the game, they showed up on August 27th


I believe part 3 coma. And to Roberto, they never mention it's the fleet of Particular Justice.

  • 05.27.2011 9:19 PM PDT

The ending cinematic for "Long Night of Solace" shows "the whole damn Covenant fleet" exiting slipspace below the planet's orbital defenses. That level takes place on August 14.

  • 05.27.2011 9:22 PM PDT

If they didn't change anything, what was the point of reprinting a reprint? I was really hoping for the canon to be fixed, and hear about a new and possibly exciting Reach story.

  • 05.27.2011 9:25 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: OrderedComa

The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.


According to the game, they showed up on August 27th


I believe part 3 coma. And to Roberto, they never mention it's the fleet of Particular Justice.


So now a second endless fleet of CCS class cruisers obliterated Reach 3 days before the real fall date, right?

I suppose the FoPJ was just clean up.

Point still stands: Reach was fully invaded 3 days before the books say it was.

  • 05.27.2011 9:27 PM PDT


Posted by: wswartzendruber
The ending cinematic for "Long Night of Solace" shows "the whole damn Covenant fleet" exiting slipspace below the planet's orbital defenses. That level takes place on August 14.


Even worse. >.>

  • 05.27.2011 9:28 PM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh
So now a second endless fleet of CCS class cruisers obliterated Reach 3 days before the real fall date, right?

I suppose the FoPJ was just clean up.

Point still stands: Reach was fully invaded 3 days before the books say it was.


Endless? I saw two CCS class Battlecruisers over New Alexandria...


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: wswartzendruber
The ending cinematic for "Long Night of Solace" shows "the whole damn Covenant fleet" exiting slipspace below the planet's orbital defenses. That level takes place on August 14.


Even worse. >.>


Of course, the UNSC had not seen very 'large' Covenant fleets. Waypoint videos says the FoPJ which arrived on the 30th was the largest even seen to that date.

  • 05.27.2011 9:31 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.

I dont know what Fopj is, But I am going to assume the covies. The comm was offline. Did you not play the first part of the game?

Fleet of Particular Justice.

Then how come in the first cutscene in Long Night of Solace, which took place on August 14 (or something like that) Auntie Dot mentions 60% of the UNSC fleet incoming? Furthermore, cities were being glassed, Spartans were deployed and evacuations had commenced. ALL of that before the 30.

  • 05.27.2011 9:49 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.


The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.

My mistake, but the point is the Covenant are invading Reach before the 30.

  • 05.27.2011 9:50 PM PDT

Where did this business of a Covenant fleet arriving on the 27th come from? Was that a simple typo?

  • 05.27.2011 9:53 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553

Its just so sad.

  • 05.28.2011 4:54 AM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Docterweegee
Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Docterweegee
TFoR and Halo reach fit just fine.


Plotholes and different dates don't fit together well.

I am going to be blunt. You are wrong.
Please explain how in TFoR the FoPJ shows up on the 30, yet in Halo Reach they come much earlier.


The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.


Need this be discussed again?

Cole protocol took place within the first years of the war. The FoR happened a few years before the end of the war.

I don't think ONI or the UNSC would be stupid enough not to enact the Cole protocol for such a long time.

Hence Master Chiefs' assault on a orbital dock to secure nav data would be invalid. Hence he goes ground side and dies. Hence, radadadada.

Need more be said?

  • 05.28.2011 4:59 AM PDT

I think that the whole campaign in Halo reach is formed from the point of view of people who wheren't present. Mixed with a fair share of ONI propoganda and your run of the mill revisionist history.

Having the collector's edition of Halo Reach makes this very evident from the extras that are in the box. So for me the book is the real fall, the game is what historians assume happened with what they have, and the logs they could find.

  • 05.28.2011 5:10 AM PDT

Posted by: cameo_cream

Need this be discussed again?

Cole protocol took place within the first years of the war. The FoR happened a few years before the end of the war.

I don't think ONI or the UNSC would be stupid enough not to enact the Cole protocol for such a long time.

Hence Master Chiefs' assault on a orbital dock to secure nav data would be invalid. Hence he goes ground side and dies. Hence, radadadada.

Need more be said?

You need to read The Fall of Reach chapter 30. It explains why the ship's NAV database never got wiped when the Cole Protocol was enacted on the morning of the 30th.

Also, if the Cole Protocol wasn't being followed at that time, then why did Colonel Ackerson grill that one guy for getting back to earth so quickly at the beginning of First Strike?

[Edited on 05.28.2011 7:26 AM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 7:25 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

´´Hey, how can we make more money, while doing nothing?´´

´´How about we reprint TFoR and slap on ´´The Definitive Edition´´ on it?´´


That is exactly what happend at 343.

[Edited on 05.28.2011 7:47 AM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 7:47 AM PDT


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: OrderedComa
The fleet showing up on the 14th isn't the Fleet of Particular Justice, they still show up on the 30th like they do in the book. For those of you who will question the validity of my statement, I refer you to the Halo Waypoint video Assault on the Stars. I believe that is the video that talked about it at least, don't remember which part it was in, but I want to say part 2.


According to the game, they showed up on August 27th


Why are you saying that? If another fleet had shown up on the 27th the game would have said so, because that little detail would be pretty important to let the player know.

  • 05.28.2011 8:46 AM PDT


Posted by: Colichemarde
I think that the whole campaign in Halo reach is formed from the point of view of people who wheren't present. Mixed with a fair share of ONI propoganda and your run of the mill revisionist history.

Having the collector's edition of Halo Reach makes this very evident from the extras that are in the box. So for me the book is the real fall, the game is what historians assume happened with what they have, and the logs they could find.


I've already pointed out the flaws of that line of reasoning, I'm not going to type it up again here, but see my fifth post in this thread for my rebuttal.

  • 05.28.2011 8:57 AM PDT

Zerogreenchief is eh pretty cool guy, eh trolls people and doesn't afraid of anything.

i thought the new full versions had an extra chapter or something?

  • 05.28.2011 10:55 AM PDT


Posted by: OrderedComa
I've already pointed out the flaws of that line of reasoning, I'm not going to type it up again here, but see my fifth post in this thread for my rebuttal.


Governments lie to their people willingly and often. Many will eventually forget what's the truth, the lie, or conveniently loose track of what was true and what was theory, or deception. It happens, has, and could with this.

They believe this is what happened.

From the standpoint of how the game ended, with a colony ship in the backround. It could all be the mythos of the Reach that the new colonial leaders want to be the truth.

  • 05.28.2011 11:13 AM PDT

It contains communications logs as supplements. One of these, in particular, validates the game while contradicting the book it comes with.

  • 05.28.2011 12:36 PM PDT


Posted by: Colichemarde

Posted by: OrderedComa
I've already pointed out the flaws of that line of reasoning, I'm not going to type it up again here, but see my fifth post in this thread for my rebuttal.


Governments lie to their people willingly and often. Many will eventually forget what's the truth, the lie, or conveniently loose track of what was true and what was theory, or deception. It happens, has, and could with this.

They believe this is what happened.

From the standpoint of how the game ended, with a colony ship in the backround. It could all be the mythos of the Reach that the new colonial leaders want to be the truth.


And as I pointed out but you seemed to over look. ONI may lie to the public, quite often I'm sure, but why would they be openly lying to each other about the timeline and length of the battle. Sure you can argue that Noble's actions during Reach are entirely made up or made more dramatic (and whoever was receiving the information would probably be none the wiser), but the entire military knew how long the Battle of Reach was as a great many of them were there or knew people who were. Especially people in ONI. The message is written as if everything within is fact, if the timeline of the battle was a lie then they would have written it more like what I said. IE this "here's what command has decided on and approved as the official story and time table for Reach" and not "this is the most complete record of the actions of Noble Team and the Battle of Reach that we have been able to gather".

  • 05.28.2011 5:00 PM PDT

So, has anyone got the Mass Market Paperback version released 28/6/11? Any significant changes from the 2010 Paperback version?

[Edited on 06.30.2011 10:31 AM PDT]

  • 06.30.2011 10:21 AM PDT