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  • Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts
Subject: The "Definitive" Fall of Reach Still Conflicts
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Again, anything changed in the new release?
nope

  • 07.01.2011 12:11 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: grey101
I can not even understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence.
But The fact the planet is being overrun by shield-less corvettes is just glorious.

My point was:
Where these corvettes overrun everything? At SWORD base the corvette gets bombarded from orbit the moment it can't crash on to anything important (Or HIGHCOM decides it's worth the risk)
And at the level Exodus, this "unstoppable" corvette is scared off by six SAMs.

And does "this place is not impressive because we don't see more places it" make sense?

  • 07.01.2011 12:14 PM PDT

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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Again, anything changed in the new release?
nope


Nothing at all?

Not even punctuation?

I see no reason why 343 would bother printing all of these books if nothing was changed, unless it's just a cover change, and it's the same print as the 2010 print.

  • 07.01.2011 12:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: grey101
I can not even understand what you are trying to say in your last sentence.
But The fact the planet is being overrun by shield-less corvettes is just glorious.

My point was:
Where these corvettes overrun everything? At SWORD base the corvette gets bombarded from orbit the moment it can't crash on to anything important (Or HIGHCOM decides it's worth the risk)
And at the level Exodus, this "unstoppable" corvette is scared off by six SAMs.

And does "this place is not impressive because we don't see more places it" make sense?


Um a single corvette attacking something that should be defended out the ass is an example of them overrunning it.

Spartans being called in to do something a frigate could take out with less than 20 archer missiles is called overrun.

"scared off"? it doesn't have shields the AA alone could take it out. Long swords could take it out, which brings the question of "where was the air force?"

Considering reach was the shipyard of the UNSC seeing a single shipbreaking yard does not make me get wet though i do appercaite the fact they did keep that in line with the book.

@Xeno

Yea i think it fixed punctuation, but everybody says its the same.

[Edited on 07.01.2011 12:21 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2011 12:20 PM PDT


Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Again, anything changed in the new release?
nope


Nothing at all?

Not even punctuation?

I see no reason why 343 would bother printing all of these books if nothing was changed, unless it's just a cover change, and it's the same print as the 2010 print.


There is at least one change in the book, I'm not sure if there's more that's been changed or added other than the one line. I do know there are some short pieces at the end of the book that shed a little more light on characters, organizations or situations in the book.

  • 07.01.2011 12:27 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: grey101
Um a single corvette attacking something that should be defended out the ass is an example of them overrunning it.
If you mean SWORD, there was AA guns and Longswords stationed there, and maybe it was supposed to be defended by things in orbit (which it in the end was)

Spartans being called in to do something a frigate could take out with less than 20 archer missiles is called overrun.
What? Do you mean LNoS? They needed the corvette to get close to the supercarrier. (Is LNoS its name?)

"scared off"? it doesn't have shields the AA alone could take it out. Long swords could take it out, which brings the question of "where was the air force?"
[b]If you listen to the dialogue, they say "Longswords are unavailable". And if the AA alone could take it out, how it overruns them?


Considering reach was the shipyard of the UNSC seeing a single shipbreaking yard does not make me get wet though i do appercaite the fact they did keep that in line with the book.
Well, Anchor 9 is a refit station...

@Xeno

Yea i think it fixed punctuation, but everybody says its the same.

  • 07.01.2011 12:31 PM PDT

- Dragon Ball/Z/GT and it's merchandise are awesome.
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- Humanity, as a whole, is stupid.
- I have asperger's syndrome
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- Official helper to the Halo: Reach - The Armor You'll Be Wearing This Fall! Thread


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: JABBERWOCK xeno
Again, anything changed in the new release?
nope


Nothing at all?

Not even punctuation?

I see no reason why 343 would bother printing all of these books if nothing was changed, unless it's just a cover change, and it's the same print as the 2010 print.


There is at least one change in the book, I'm not sure if there's more that's been changed or added other than the one line. I do know there are some short pieces at the end of the book that shed a little more light on characters, organizations or situations in the book.


But those were in the 2010 reprint anyways, or are they new ones?

  • 07.01.2011 12:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: grey101
Um a single corvette attacking something that should be defended out the ass is an example of them overrunning it.
If you mean SWORD, there was AA guns and Longswords stationed there, and maybe it was supposed to be defended by things in orbit (which it in the end was)

Spartans being called in to do something a frigate could take out with less than 20 archer missiles is called overrun.
What? Do you mean LNoS? They needed the corvette to get close to the supercarrier. (Is LNoS its name?)

"scared off"? it doesn't have shields the AA alone could take it out. Long swords could take it out, which brings the question of "where was the air force?"
[b]If you listen to the dialogue, they say "Longswords are unavailable". And if the AA alone could take it out, how it overruns them?


Considering reach was the shipyard of the UNSC seeing a single shipbreaking yard does not make me get wet though i do appercaite the fact they did keep that in line with the book.
Well, Anchor 9 is a refit station...

@Xeno

Yea i think it fixed punctuation, but everybody says its the same.


1.You had to turn all the AA's on even then they should have been able to take out the corvette from the way you are trying to make it seem.

Nothing was said about longswords being stationed there, it was stated they came elsewhere with "longswords inbound". please use correct English because i am having a hard time understanding you.

2.no i am still talking about the sword base frigate, and yes that is the name.

3.I am still talking about swordbase, stop changing levels.

  • 07.01.2011 12:42 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: grey101
1.You had to turn all the AA's on even then they should have been able to take out the corvette from the way you are trying to make it seem.
Are you talking about guns at SWORD? I just meant that there was some sort of defence there (covies probably would would and did send dropships to capture the forerunner thing, so the guns were useful)

Nothing was said about longswords being stationed there, it was stated they came elsewhere with "longswords inbound". please use correct English because i am having a hard time understanding you.
I'm pretty sure you can see Longswords in the airfield. And english isn't my first language, so sorry about that.

2.no i am still talking about the sword base frigate, and yes that is the name.
They didn't use spartans to take out SWORD base frigate...

3.I am still talking about swordbase, stop changing levels.Sorry, what was point #3?

  • 07.01.2011 1:01 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Actually I remember somebody here on the universe forums quoting a line. I forget the exact thing but It deals with Halsey telling somebody else about that.


Correct. In-fact, it was OP who caught the change.

Posted by: wswartzendruber
Chapter 13, paragraph 16 of First Strike (2003) has Cathrine Halsey saying:

"I know the Covenant entered the Epsilon Eridani system at approximately oh-five-hundred hours."

This passage takes place on August 30th.


Which was followed by this post...

Posted by: wswartzendruber
Heh! They're slick. Here's what the 2010 edition says:

"With regard to recent events, I likely know far more about this than you do, but let's stick with today. I know that the Covenant arrived in full force at approximately oh-five-hundred hours."


That's the specific line I was talking about, thanks Kit. I personally haven't read the re-releases yet.


Fascinating...So then under the assumption that book and game continue to co-exist it really does seem like Reach was a vulnerable little backwater planet unable to handle a relatively small Covenant fleet until the majority of the UNSC fleet rushed to her aid and formed up on the 30th of August.


Uuuh....

Why would it seem that O_o
I never saw anything in the game indicating or making it seem like Reach was a backwater planet, the very idea just seems absurd...
...A small, random, backwater colony wouldn't have even lasted a week. And it wouldn't have orbital defenses, not like what the game mentions anyway, and there wouldn't be a massive, major city with buildings the same size as Coruscant's.


I was saying 'like' in the sense that its defenses were incredibly weak all things considered. And I've already said my two cents as to how it would seem that.

There are at least a hundred ships at any given time patrolling Reach's system in addition to the SMAC and whatever miscellaneous ODPs Reach has in orbit. The Covenant manages to sneak in one Super Carrier and god knows how many Corvettes. Disregarding the sneaking aspect and fast forward to when the Carrier reveals itself and the Covenant goes guns blazing everywhere they can. In one day, Dot reports that the UNSC is recalling 60% of the UNSC ships outside of the system to defend Reach. Carter says that the ships carrying nukes are no more. On top of that, there is no plan to take out the Super Carrier until Kat's scheme comes along.

With those things said, yes, the game does make it seem like 100 ships were combat ineffective against one Super Carrier if not completely routed by it to the point they could no longer mount another attack on it themselves.

So comparatively speaking, I say 'like' a backwater planet yet again because Reach's initial defense force was brought to her knees by a single ship and its forces until reinforcements arrive to stave off the attack. It's like the initial battle of Harvest but on a far larger scale in a way. Main difference being that in 5 years the UNSC took Harvest back (for whatever a glassed planet was worth in the middle of a losing war) while in less than a month (before August 30th), 60% of the UNSC fleet + home defenses could not stave off what was not even the "main" Covenant invasion forces.

See, having Reach's local fleet plus reinforcements getting pounded into debris by the full might of a Covenant invasion force of 300+ just works because it is a massive force coming down like the hand of god all at once on everything the UNSC can muster, which is quite a lot. Having Reach's forces be put into submission by a force of one ship (Corvettes not counting as they're not a viable ship to ship attack vessel), and then subsequently unable to stave off the next wave of forces after getting a wave of reinforcements themselves, and then being completely defeated once the third final and largest wave considered to be their full force is just...sad in the sense that the first loss during the first wave should have never happened in the first place all initial defenses considered.

  • 07.01.2011 1:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

To add to slashers post.


The idea of the covenant drifting from nearby systems doesn't hold up ether as the UNSC also controlled and patrolled the systems near reach

  • 07.01.2011 1:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: grey101
1.You had to turn all the AA's on even then they should have been able to take out the corvette from the way you are trying to make it seem.
Are you talking about guns at SWORD? I just meant that there was some sort of defence there (covies probably would would and did send dropships to capture the forerunner thing, so the guns were useful)

Nothing was said about longswords being stationed there, it was stated they came elsewhere with "longswords inbound". please use correct English because i am having a hard time understanding you.
I'm pretty sure you can see Longswords in the airfield. And english isn't my first language, so sorry about that.

2.no i am still talking about the sword base frigate, and yes that is the name.
They didn't use spartans to take out SWORD base frigate...

3.I am still talking about swordbase, stop changing levels.Sorry, what was point #3?


The spartans were called in to stop the corvette, yes. if they were not there the base would have been effed

  • 07.01.2011 1:26 PM PDT

If I may point out, how do we know there wasn't a plan made?

We don't exactly look over commands shoulder. + the Fact Kat submitted her idea very soon after the super-carrier appeared, and her plan had the biggest reward, least risk.

I would rather do Kat's idea, then a frontal assault that could loose me a number of ships.

  • 07.01.2011 1:30 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Gamer Whale

Posted by: grey101
1.You had to turn all the AA's on even then they should have been able to take out the corvette from the way you are trying to make it seem.
Are you talking about guns at SWORD? I just meant that there was some sort of defence there (covies probably would would and did send dropships to capture the forerunner thing, so the guns were useful)

Nothing was said about longswords being stationed there, it was stated they came elsewhere with "longswords inbound". please use correct English because i am having a hard time understanding you.
I'm pretty sure you can see Longswords in the airfield. And english isn't my first language, so sorry about that.

2.no i am still talking about the sword base frigate, and yes that is the name.
They didn't use spartans to take out SWORD base frigate...

3.I am still talking about swordbase, stop changing levels.Sorry, what was point #3?


The spartans were called in to stop the corvette, yes. if they were not there the base would have been effed

Or they would just have lost more troopers doing it, I mean, turn on comms station, activate AA gun, shoot down phantom and few banshees, wait for cavalry...

And what was point 3, I'm curious, really.

  • 07.01.2011 1:34 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
If I may point out, how do we know there wasn't a plan made?

We don't exactly look over commands shoulder. + the Fact Kat submitted her idea very soon after the super-carrier appeared, and her plan had the biggest reward, least risk.

I would rather do Kat's idea, then a frontal assault that could loose me a number of ships.


Thing is, the UNSC already lost a significant number of ships to begin with. We know from Cater's statement that all ships that carried nukes were already destroyed. Furthermore by the time we get into space the next day there's already a massive debris field of ships in orbit. The need to call in the majority of the entire UNSC fleet also makes it apparent that Reach's defense force is no longer in a position to put up a significant defense regardless.

The point stands that the Super Carrier dealt enough of a blow to Reach's fleet that it could no longer stand to fight the Super Carrier on its own, nor sustain another assault by a greater force as it already sustained heavy losses and its nuclear arsenal went down with the ships that carried them.

  • 07.01.2011 1:38 PM PDT

Heres the thing. So obviously the covenant had some sort of very advanced cloaking technology which was able to cloak emissions and objects across a very wide range of the radio spectrum (including visible!) Kat confirmed this with in-game dialogue "The covenant can jam all our instruments?" "So it would seem"

Now the remaining question is, why do they suddenly have technology such as this? Answer is they probably always had it or it was a recent innovation, either way they kept it under wraps from the enemy until the perfect opportunity to use such an OP advantage........like attacking your enemies greatest military stonghold. The home fleet and the ODPs cant shoot what they cant see.

So once the monstrosity of an assault carrier has quietly slipped under the defence grid and started deploying a land army on the surface, it was pretty much already game over for reach from the beginning, but we knew that anyway, weve all read how reach falls. The rest of the game is centred on the desperate sacrifices made by spartans in an impossible situation they now find themselvs in. I thought that would have obvious, op. uppercut was planned from a goddamn cave in the middle of nowhere with scarabs marauding around outside ferchrissakes.

  • 07.01.2011 1:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
If I may point out, how do we know there wasn't a plan made?

We don't exactly look over commands shoulder. + the Fact Kat submitted her idea very soon after the super-carrier appeared, and her plan had the biggest reward, least risk.

I would rather do Kat's idea, then a frontal assault that could loose me a number of ships.


Thing is, the UNSC already lost a significant number of ships to begin with. We know from Cater's statement that all ships that carried nukes were already destroyed. Furthermore by the time we get into space the next day there's already a massive debris field of ships in orbit. The need to call in the majority of the entire UNSC fleet also makes it apparent that Reach's defense force is no longer in a position to put up a significant defense regardless.

The point stands that the Super Carrier dealt enough of a blow to Reach's fleet that it could no longer stand to fight the Super Carrier on its own, nor sustain another assault by a greater force as it already sustained heavy losses and its nuclear arsenal went down with the ships that carried them.



which then brings the question of where the Macs were during all of this and when the "real fleet" arrived.


And i don't remember point 3, look for it and re post it

  • 07.01.2011 1:42 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Fatal Factor
Heres the thing. So obviously the covenant had some sort of very advanced cloaking technology which was able to cloak emissions and objects across a very wide range of the radio spectrum (including visible!) Kat confirmed this with in-game dialogue "The covenant can jam all our instruments?" "So it would seem"

Now the remaining question is, why do they suddenly have technology such as this? Answer is they probably always had it or it was a recent innovation, either way they kept it under wraps from the enemy until the perfect opportunity to use such an OP advantage........like attacking your enemies greatest military stonghold. The home fleet and the ODPs cant shoot what they cant see.



1. you can not apply what the pylons do to the ships. the UNSC has 1 laser and i think they only have 1 prowler that has a rough ships version of it (GoO). not to mention they have the ability to disable plasma weapons yet the ships don't have this.


Everything on the field does not apply to the planes in space

  • 07.01.2011 1:46 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
If I may point out, how do we know there wasn't a plan made?

We don't exactly look over commands shoulder. + the Fact Kat submitted her idea very soon after the super-carrier appeared, and her plan had the biggest reward, least risk.

I would rather do Kat's idea, then a frontal assault that could loose me a number of ships.


Thing is, the UNSC already lost a significant number of ships to begin with. We know from Cater's statement that all ships that carried nukes were already destroyed. Furthermore by the time we get into space the next day there's already a massive debris field of ships in orbit. The need to call in the majority of the entire UNSC fleet also makes it apparent that Reach's defense force is no longer in a position to put up a significant defense regardless.

The point stands that the Super Carrier dealt enough of a blow to Reach's fleet that it could no longer stand to fight the Super Carrier on its own, nor sustain another assault by a greater force as it already sustained heavy losses and its nuclear arsenal went down with the ships that carried them.



which then brings the question of where the Macs were during all of this and when the "real fleet" arrived.


And i don't remember point 3, look for it and re post it


Welp, they somehow manage to survive long enough to be defended by Spartans considering the radio transmissions. Of course the whole point of them being defended in the first place by the time the 30th rolls around is a tad bit moot.

Course, that is, unless the UNSC decided to go all Alamo on the Covenant that are invading it. Send reinforcements to the doomed planet in an attempt to fight what appears to be the entirety of the Covenant fleet, and inflict the most losses on them while they have the opportunity to strike at them all. Yep, seems far more genuinely plausible than lets send more UNSC ships to the already lost planet in the hopes of saving it.

  • 07.01.2011 1:57 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?

Was the point 3 that Longswords should have been at SWORD earlier? Didn't they say that phantom and banshees are threat to them?

  • 07.01.2011 2:20 PM PDT

Why are you assuming the spires were cloaking the ship?

They were described as "teleportation terminals" not cloaking towers. Perhaps the carrier chose to voluntarily decloak and glass the grafton since the game was already up. "teleporters? linked to what?" jorge said. You can see in the distance the spires were all lined up in the same orientation as the carrier, so it would have been pretty obvious anyway from then on that the ship theyre connected to is hovering right above them. So it glassed the grafton then made orbit again.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Fatal Factor
Heres the thing. So obviously the covenant had some sort of very advanced cloaking technology which was able to cloak emissions and objects across a very wide range of the radio spectrum (including visible!) Kat confirmed this with in-game dialogue "The covenant can jam all our instruments?" "So it would seem"

Now the remaining question is, why do they suddenly have technology such as this? Answer is they probably always had it or it was a recent innovation, either way they kept it under wraps from the enemy until the perfect opportunity to use such an OP advantage........like attacking your enemies greatest military stonghold. The home fleet and the ODPs cant shoot what they cant see.



1. you can not apply what the pylons do to the ships. the UNSC has 1 laser and i think they only have 1 prowler that has a rough ships version of it (GoO). not to mention they have the ability to disable plasma weapons yet the ships don't have this.


Everything on the field does not apply to the planes in space

  • 07.01.2011 2:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Gamer Whale
Was the point 3 that Longswords should have been at SWORD earlier? Didn't they say that phantom and banshees are threat to them?


Don't see anything in the transcripts that say that.

and fatal i assumed you were talking about the spires cloaking the ship. i apologize.

  • 07.01.2011 2:31 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Gamer Whale
Was the point 3 that Longswords should have been at SWORD earlier? Didn't they say that phantom and banshees are threat to them?


Don't see anything in the transcripts that say that.




Sword Control (COM): "Commander, this base won't survive another salvo from that corvette. Kill those Banshees!"
Carter-A259: "Upstairs, Lieutenant, we need those Longswords in the air."

The Covenant air and ground troops are soon eliminated.

Emile-A239: "Yeah, clear. That's the way we get it done, Spartan! Clear."
Sword Control (COM): "Noble Team, Longswords are inbound and ready to push. Orbital defenses standing by to take the shot."

This says that they need banshees gone before Longswords can start their run IMO.

  • 07.01.2011 2:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


in your opinion therefore it is not a fact.

Longswords can out run banshees and phantoms, not to mention it sounds like the Longswords are being called to reinforce them not waiting fr objects to be removed.

  • 07.01.2011 2:54 PM PDT

Am I supposed to write something funny here?


Posted by: grey101

in your opinion therefore it is not a fact.

Longswords can out run banshees and phantoms, not to mention it sounds like the Longswords are being called to reinforce them not waiting fr objects to be removed.
Heck, I believe Longswords could blow them up while still attacking the corvette, but it still sounds like they want banshees gone before sending the Longswords.

EDIT:
Sword Control (COM): "Commander, this base won't survive another salvo from that corvette. Kill those Banshees!"
Carter-A259: "Upstairs, Lieutenant, we need those Longswords in the air."

Doesn't Carter tell Six to kill banshees so they can send Longswords there? That's what it sounds like to me.

[Edited on 07.01.2011 3:09 PM PDT]

  • 07.01.2011 3:05 PM PDT