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Subject: Why Do People Always Assume That.....

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
It started with Gamma. The demise of Beta company was what spurred Kurt into adding in the new batch of drugs. [/quote]
Thanks. Strange though, it seemed like Six kept fighting even when she should've just died in Reach. Oh well.


I'd say that was adreline, combined with Mark V armor. Lil bit more protective then SPI.

Though, we could pull a line from that one poem somebody used to defend "Chief is best". 'She simply had the will to never lose.' or something :P.


Wish I had Six's adrenaline levels to keep fighting after taking dozens of plasma bolts to the face and torso.

  • 05.28.2011 8:07 AM PDT

also grammar monsters, its chief NOT cheif for the love of jesus...!

  • 05.28.2011 10:30 AM PDT

We all seem to be picking specific aspects that make one group of Spartans better than the others, when we need to be looking at the whole package. That's what decides who the better soldiers are.

IMO: A Spartan II could take a Spartan III apart (both without armor). Spartan II's recieved much more thorough training. I believe that the II's intelligence puts them far above the III's.

With armor, it's plain to see that the II's would again prevail(Noble Team aside).

Noble team was highly effective, not because of their individual strength, but because of how they worked together as a team. I still think Blue team could destroy Noble Team.

  • 05.28.2011 11:01 AM PDT


Posted by: ajw34307
Wish I had Six's adrenaline levels to keep fighting after taking dozens of plasma bolts to the face and torso.


Never took any to the face... took several to the torso but again, Mark V.

  • 05.28.2011 11:07 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: Thugzz Deluxxxe
We all seem to be picking specific aspects that make one group of Spartans better than the others, when we need to be looking at the whole package. That's what decides who the better soldiers are.

IMO: A Spartan II could take a Spartan III apart (both without armor). Spartan II's recieved much more thorough training. I believe that the II's intelligence puts them far above the III's.

With armor, it's plain to see that the II's would again prevail(Noble Team aside).

Noble team was highly effective, not because of their individual strength, but because of how they worked together as a team. I still think Blue team could destroy Noble Team.


I must assume you didn't read my post in the previous page?

  • 05.28.2011 11:35 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

There is one thing the II's have over the III's. Experience.

  • 05.28.2011 12:23 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
There is one thing the II's have over the III's. Experience.


This.

You put a 25 year veteran Spartan II against a 25 year Spartan III veteran, and you wont see much differences.

  • 05.28.2011 12:26 PM PDT

Didn't you already make this thread?

  • 05.28.2011 12:41 PM PDT

Spartan III have no shields, instead active camo. Spartan II are like Master Chief and Noble Six.

  • 05.28.2011 12:49 PM PDT


Posted by: odba1997
Spartan III have no shields, instead active camo. Spartan II are like Master Chief and Noble Six.


*facepalm* This is almost as bad as the "Clearly Six is a Spartan III because he takes fall damage, cannot duel wield, and has to use medkits." comment.

  • 05.28.2011 12:50 PM PDT

It's not an assumption. It's a fact. There's no doubt that Spartan IIIs are great warriors, but Spartan IIs are and always will be superior.

  • 05.28.2011 1:57 PM PDT


Posted by: bat out of h3ll
It's not an assumption. It's a fact. There's no doubt that Spartan IIIs are great warriors, but Spartan IIs are and always will be superior.


In what way? Experience? sure.

Strength, speed, intelligence? Not so much.

Training? Sure the S2's got a wider training course, with lots of academics, however the S3's got BETTER training from Kurt and Mendez, with far more focus on military tactics and such. If wanted I can present statements supporting it.

Augmentations? They are the same, bar the growth on S2's got. In-fact, S3 augmentations are better as there were no washouts.

  • 05.28.2011 2:05 PM PDT

Our big green style, cannot be defeated!
-Sgt. A.J. Johnson - Halo 2 - Metropolis

I see you're the type of person who wants to argue. A person who argues just to argue.
(1) Anyway. What was your point about the fight with Kelly & the Spartan III? She won so uh......NEXT.
(2) Regardless of Sam and Jorge, both were Spartan II's and both were made up, so I do not see where you're going to with this.[/quote] To elaborate on what I said about Jorge, he was a made up character in the games, not books, smart ass, NEXT.
(3) Thanks for clearing that out for me so I didn't have to do it. You said it yourself in the beginning of that sentence, so another stupid argument there: I know Linda was unmatched by any other Sniper in the UNSC, thanks for destroying yourself there, NEXT.
(4) Again with Kelly? We've already seen that Holly *again, with no MJOLNIR armor boosting her abilities* was able to fight Kelly for some moments with ease, you're expecting us people to believe that she would stand a chance in hand to hand with two MJOLNIR clad Spartan III's, and chokeslam them? what is this, wrestling? Smart ass, I hate wrestling first of all, & second, what else are you going to call that move? Third,Holly didn't even touch Kelly. (Don't be a smart ass here now. I can tell you would say something stupid like, "She didn't touch Kelly? If Kelly's holding her arm, her arm is touching Kelly, there for, she is in fact touching Kelly".) Lol, NEXT.
(5) Only Ironman can kill a Spartan II now? Hmmmm, how curious, I remember reading about several Spartans getting killed by other people, like this:
-Sam: you could say that he was killed by a Jackal, because he couldn't leave the ship after being shot by one.
-Grace: got pretty much destroyed by Brutes.
-Solomon & Arthur: Real soldiers we've got eh chaps?
-Red Team Beta: MAC'd to hell by their own allies.
-Daisy: Needlers by Grunts and Elites.
-Linda: Killed by Grunts and Jackals, later revived.
-an unidentified Spartan killed by an Elite with a needler.

Again with the smart ass. I meant a fist fight, & not a shoot out. Obviously a Spartan can die of that crap. What the hell do you think natural death is for.
Iron man can deflect plasma, & also create it using his repulsor beam (gauntlets). Chief was the only Spartan to get an AI (Yes I called him chief, because that's his rank. You call him John like you know this fictional character personally.) Iron Man has Jasper. Carries no equipment (Again, don't be a "smart ass" & say, "No equipment? What do you think his armor is?")
The main think is that he can fly, & if you read about Iron Man, you'd know that after he had his spinal injury treated, his reaction times were quite faster. You might also try to be a "smart ass" & say, "What about without their armor"? Why would they fight without their armor? NEXT.
(6)The list goes on and on, so I suggest you consider this post the next time you are going to say that Spartan II's are better than Spartan III's. Remember that they were fighting the Covenant when they were just kids and doing a great job about it.The list goes on and on, so I suggest you consider this post the next time you are going to say that Spartan II's are better than Spartan III's. Remember that they were fighting the Covenant when they were just kids and doing a great job about it.

You suggest I "consider", that post? Yo, I suggest you consider this post before your kind try to stir up stupid arguments like this, just to argue about something. Especially when they don't know what they're talking about.
(7) Last but not least, remember this?
I shall effectively to any of the points addressed once I get on my computer though.
(Edit, alright now I'm back on my computer so I shall adress them)
.
Stop going on wikipedia you punk.

So, I suggest you slap yourself in the face, to rid yourself of that ignorance.

[Edited on 05.28.2011 3:20 PM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 3:11 PM PDT

Our big green style, cannot be defeated!
-Sgt. A.J. Johnson - Halo 2 - Metropolis

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: bat out of h3ll
It's not an assumption. It's a fact. There's no doubt that Spartan IIIs are great warriors, but Spartan IIs are and always will be superior.


In what way? Experience? sure.

Strength, speed, intelligence? Not so much.

Training? Sure the S2's got a wider training course, with lots of academics, however the S3's got BETTER training from Kurt and Mendez, with far more focus on military tactics and such. If wanted I can present statements supporting it.

Augmentations? They are the same, bar the growth on S2's got. In-fact, S3 augmentations are better as there were no washouts.
First, The augmentation were not better. They used cheaper, safer ones, so that there could be no "wash outs" amongst Spartan IIIs. Also, Spartans IIs were taught extensively on mathematics, reading, history, & warfare. All that taught by the AI Deja. Spartan IIs were trained since they were 6, they know a lot more. Spartan III's didn't have to be 6. They could be in their young teens & still be selected.
Second, they were taught by a Spartan II & Mendez. None of them were better than their teachers (they wouldn't fight Mendez).
Bottom line, Spartan IIIs were cheap, easy to create, & expendable. That's why the second generation of Spartan III's was built so quickly after the murder of most of the original Spartan IIIs.


[Edited on 05.28.2011 3:18 PM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 3:16 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: xecnalxes117
I see you're the type of person who wants to argue. A person who argues just to argue.
(1) Anyway. What was your point about the fight with Kelly & the Spartan III? She won so uh......NEXT.
(2) Regardless of Sam and Jorge, both were Spartan II's and both were made up, so I do not see where you're going to with this.[/quote] To elaborate on what I said about Jorge, he was a made up character in the games, not books, smart ass, NEXT.
(3) Thanks for clearing that out for me so I didn't have to do it. You said it yourself in the beginning of that sentence, so another stupid argument there: I know Linda was unmatched by any other Sniper in the UNSC, thanks for destroying yourself there, NEXT.
(4) Again with Kelly? We've already seen that Holly *again, with no MJOLNIR armor boosting her abilities* was able to fight Kelly for some moments with ease, you're expecting us people to believe that she would stand a chance in hand to hand with two MJOLNIR clad Spartan III's, and chokeslam them? what is this, wrestling? Smart ass, I hate wrestling first of all, & second, what else are you going to call that move? Third,Holly didn't even touch Kelly. (Don't be a smart ass here now. I can tell you would say something stupid like, "She didn't touch Kelly? If Kelly's holding her arm, her arm is touching Kelly, there for, she is in fact touching Kelly".) Lol, NEXT.
(5) Only Ironman can kill a Spartan II now? Hmmmm, how curious, I remember reading about several Spartans getting killed by other people, like this:
-Sam: you could say that he was killed by a Jackal, because he couldn't leave the ship after being shot by one.
-Grace: got pretty much destroyed by Brutes.
-Solomon & Arthur: Real soldiers we've got eh chaps?
-Red Team Beta: MAC'd to hell by their own allies.
-Daisy: Needlers by Grunts and Elites.
-Linda: Killed by Grunts and Jackals, later revived.
-an unidentified Spartan killed by an Elite with a needler.

Again with the smart ass. I meant a fist fight, & not a shoot out. Obviously a Spartan can die of that crap. What the hell do you think natural death is for.
Iron man can deflect plasma, & also create it using his repulsor beam (gauntlets). Chief was the only Spartan to get an AI (Yes I called him chief, because that's his rank. You call him John like you know this fictional character personally.) Iron Man has Jasper. Carries no equipment (Again, don't be "smart" & say, "No equipment? What do you think his armor is?")
The main think is that he can fly, & if you read about Iron Man, you'd know that after he had his spinal injury treated, his reaction times were quite faster. You might also try to be "smart" & say, "What about without their armor"? Why would they fight without their armor? NEXT.
(6)The list goes on and on, so I suggest you consider this post the next time you are going to say that Spartan II's are better than Spartan III's. Remember that they were fighting the Covenant when they were just kids and doing a great job about it.The list goes on and on, so I suggest you consider this post the next time you are going to say that Spartan II's are better than Spartan III's. Remember that they were fighting the Covenant when they were just kids and doing a great job about it.

You suggest I "consider", that post? Yo, I suggest you consider this post before your kind try to stir up stupid arguments like this, just to argue about something. Especially when they don't know what they're talking about.
(7) Last but not least, remember this?
I shall effectively to any of the points addressed once I get on my computer though.
(Edit, alright now I'm back on my computer so I shall adress them)
.
Stop going on wikipedia you punk.

So, I suggest you slap yourself in the face, to rid yourself of that ignorance.










If anyone needs a slap for ignorance that would be you. It's clear that the more canon savy members of this forum understand that at a base level IIs and IIIs are equal to each other. Of course each individual Spartan will have their own specialties, but to take one specialty of a Spartan II and apply it to all Spartan IIs is just ignorance in itself. The IIIs had their own specialists as well leading to some members better at one thing than another. To say Kat's skills were useless compared to all IIs is just laughable. More so considering that she can do on her own what the Chief can't at all without Cortana's help. So specializations are hardly something you can take and exclusively slap onto SIIs.

The only decisive factor that separates mainstream IIs and IIIs as a whole is armor that further augments their bodies and experience. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • 05.28.2011 3:23 PM PDT

Our big green style, cannot be defeated!
-Sgt. A.J. Johnson - Halo 2 - Metropolis

If anyone needs a slap for ignorance that would be you. It's clear that the more canon savy members of this forum understand that at a base level IIs and IIIs are equal to each other. Of course each individual Spartan will have their own specialties, but to take one specialty of a Spartan II and apply it to all Spartan IIs is just ignorance in itself. The IIIs had their own specialists as well leading to some members better at one thing than another. To say Kat's skills were useless compared to all IIs is just laughable. More so considering that she can do on her own what the Chief can't at all without Cortana's help. So specializations are hardly something you can take and exclusively slap onto SIIs.

The only decisive factor that separates mainstream IIs and IIIs as a whole is armor that further augments their bodies and experience. Nothing more, nothing less.
Didn't you just see that Spartan IIs are deadlier? Geez, I'm not gonna write no -blam!-en paragraph again, just to explain how you're repeating this -blam!-.
Okay, there are no books about Noble team, so they were just made up. So I'm going to go by the game now.
-Kat was useless & expendable, just what she was created to be. We're done.
-Chief didn't have help from any marines. They all got captured or died. If you wanted to play the Campaign & make it realist, put it on Legendary & see how many marines will be alive at the end of every firefight. ODSTs in the game, maybe. If you're in a vehicle with marines, yeah they'll survive, since the player is smarter than any AI. Same goes for the marines on Reach if you're driving them.


[Edited on 05.28.2011 3:36 PM PDT]

  • 05.28.2011 3:27 PM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: xecnalxes117
Didn't you just see that Spartan IIs are deadlier? Geez, I'm not gonna write no -blam!-en paragraph again, just to explain how you're repeating this -blam!-.


That's perfectly fine. It's not like your irrelevant paragraphs added anything to this discussion to begin with. I mean honestly now. Listen to your drivel.

Augmentations not better, they were cheaper, and only led to less washouts? The augmentations the IIIs got did have some slight differences from the IIs, but ultimately achieved the same effects bestowed upon the IIs. The difference being that there was a significantly lower washout rate. How you consider that worse.

Going by the game Noble team is useless? Well gee sure, let's ignore Ghost of Onyx and all the books for that matter dealing with both IIs and IIIs. So going by your logic, the IIs are useless as well with the exception of the Chief because the bunch of them couldn't defend one measly generator complex while the Chief is the only Spartan period to "single handedly" destroy Halo, save Earth, and destroy the Ark because on Legendary all his support just dies. Game logic. Right.

The list can go on and on. I don't even feel like I should have to elaborate how irrelevant and nonsensical it is for you to add in how fighting Mendez is supposed to be some major factor in decided how all IIs are automatically superior to all IIIs.

This is the Universe Forum. If you don't have the ability to exercise some critical thinking and apply book knowledge and game knowledge together then don't bother posting because you will get ousted by everyone else that does.

  • 05.28.2011 3:41 PM PDT


Posted by: xecnalxes117
-Chief didn't have help from any marines. They all got captured or died. If you wanted to play the Campaign & make it realist, put it on Legendary & see how many marines will be alive at the end of every firefight. ODSTs in the game, maybe. If you're in a vehicle with marines, yeah they'll survive, since the player is smarter than any AI. Same goes for the marines on Reach if you're driving them.


Actually, heroic is the 'canon' difficulty.

You are clearly a S3 hater, as you refuse to acknowledge facts.

  • 05.28.2011 3:59 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

LOL this thread again.

S-II: Designed to be the best of the best, no limit to funding.
Missions were done in small groups, highly independent soldiers.
Best of the best small task force.
Genetically Chosen from humanity's best traits.
Had NO CHOICE. The superior mental and physical abilities beyond training meant Halsey HAD to keep them.

S-III: Designed to be disposable soildiers, the cheapest way possible. Produce as much as possible and ship them on suicide missions via 100s to buy humanity time.
Any Child given a choice to join Ackerson wanted as many as possible, each very expendable on their own.[i.e cheap equipment].


All Spartans are beyond exceptional, but the S-IIs were bred to be the finest, If some S-IIIs happened to be on par with S-IIs it would just be due to chance that an S-III had the traits of an S-II.

ALL S-II'S are genetically superior, but not all S-III's are.

  • 05.28.2011 4:04 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: xecnalxes117
First, The augmentation were not better. They used cheaper, safer ones, so that there could be no "wash outs" amongst Spartan IIIs.

Please explain to me how something being cheaper and safer automatically equates to poorer quality?

The PC that you are using right now is far better than what was sold 10 years ago but was probably cheaper than what PC's costed back then. And the "logical" connection between safe and poor quality is nonsense.

Posted by: xecnalxes117
Also, Spartans IIs were taught extensively on mathematics, reading, history, & warfare. All that taught by the AI Deja.

Well that is great, if you are planning on dazzling your enemies with your funky math skills, but it is most likely going to be useless in a fist fight or for planning tactical operations.

It would be foolish to assume that the SIII were not taught about warfare and the history of warfare...

Posted by: xecnalxes117
Spartan IIs were trained since they were 6, they know a lot more. Spartan III's didn't have to be 6. They could be in their young teens & still be selected.

That is strange, because pg 69 of GoO plainly states that Alpha Company were chosen from orphans in the range of 4-6 years of age.

Posted by: xecnalxes117
Second, they were taught by a Spartan II & Mendez. None of them were better than their teachers (they wouldn't fight Mendez).

Nonsense. This implies a decline in the talents of anything. Why would it be any different for Spartans than any other discipline? I am pretty sure that Hawking is more distinguished than his old physics professor.

What does that point about Mendez have to do with anything? The IIs never fought him either...

Posted by: xecnalxes117
Bottom line, Spartan IIIs were cheap, easy to create, & expendable. That's why the second generation of Spartan III's was built so quickly after the murder of most of the original Spartan IIIs.

Again, proves nothing.

  • 05.28.2011 5:21 PM PDT
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Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit

Posted by: xecnalxes117

Iron Man has J.A.R.V.I.S. not Jasper.


The best way to put it is this;

Spartan-III's = Booksmart.
Spartan-II's = Experience.

Their only relevant difference.

  • 05.28.2011 5:36 PM PDT

Our big green style, cannot be defeated!
-Sgt. A.J. Johnson - Halo 2 - Metropolis


Posted by: StealthSlasher2

Posted by: xecnalxes117
Didn't you just see that Spartan IIs are deadlier? Geez, I'm not gonna write no -blam!-en paragraph again, just to explain how you're repeating this -blam!-.


That's perfectly fine. It's not like your irrelevant paragraphs added anything to this discussion to begin with. I mean honestly now. Listen to your drivel.

Augmentations not better, they were cheaper, and only led to less washouts? The augmentations the IIIs got did have some slight differences from the IIs, but ultimately achieved the same effects bestowed upon the IIs. The difference being that there was a significantly lower washout rate. How you consider that worse.

Going by the game Noble team is useless? Well gee sure, let's ignore Ghost of Onyx and all the books for that matter dealing with both IIs and IIIs. So going by your logic, the IIs are useless as well with the exception of the Chief because the bunch of them couldn't defend one measly generator complex while the Chief is the only Spartan period to "single handedly" destroy Halo, save Earth, and destroy the Ark because on Legendary all his support just dies. Game logic. Right.

The list can go on and on. I don't even feel like I should have to elaborate how irrelevant and nonsensical it is for you to add in how fighting Mendez is supposed to be some major factor in decided how all IIs are automatically superior to all IIIs.

This is the Universe Forum. If you don't have the ability to exercise some critical thinking and apply book knowledge and game knowledge together then don't bother posting because you will get ousted by everyone else that does.
Ousted by everyone who hasn't read the books. Again, you're ignorant. Learn to read more than just play games. Don't go on Wikipedia btw.
But about your rebuttal, it's irrelevant. So talk to me when you know what you're talking about. You all base things off of theories. I base it off the facts in the books. So again, I know you didn't read the books, & that's alright. You're the type who says game canon overrides book canon.
If the books are wrong & inaccurate, why is the Bungie logo on the back of every single one of them. Why was every single one sponsored by the actual owners.
I read a portion of what you said just now. So, did I ever say that it was bad that there were no wash outs amongst Spartan III's. Are you stupid? (Rhetorical) Everything else is just stupid that you said. You try too hard to sound smart. Yeah, I caught you.

  • 05.28.2011 6:19 PM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Does it really matter? I've read Ghost of Onyx and the other Halo books, and I'm still not sure who's better. But, nonetheless, it doesn't really matter because...ODST beat all! lol. Just kidding. Although, ODSTs are badass. :)

  • 05.28.2011 6:21 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Does it really matter? I've read Ghost of Onyx and the other Halo books, and I'm still not sure who's better. But, nonetheless, it doesn't really matter because...ODST beat all! lol. Just kidding. Although, ODSTs are badass. :)

Elites are badassier.

  • 05.28.2011 7:38 PM PDT

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████▓▓▓▓▒▒▒▒░░░░ Mjolnir Battle Tactics ░░░░▒▒▒▒▓▓▓▓████


"Ignorance is a plague."

Close, but the plague killed those infected with it, and the ignorant are still alive.
I wish ignorance was a plague.


Posted by: RKOSNAKE

Only Ironman can kill a Spartan II now? Hmmmm, how curious, I remember reading about several Spartans getting killed by other people, like this:

-Sam: you could say that he was killed by a Jackal, because he couldn't leave the ship after being shot by one.

You mean before they had even developed shielding for the Mjolnir armor? You cannot use that example to show how Spartan IIs can die because they were far more resilient later on.

And Jun cannot be compared to Linda. She was able to snipe through tiny gaps in the canopies of Banshees, with one hand, while hanging from a wire, all completely invisible. Jun is a pretty good shot.... and that's about it. He never does anything that makes you think: "Wow, how the -blam!- does he do that?" There really is nothing to compare.

  • 05.28.2011 8:08 PM PDT

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