Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: Do You Accept Cryptum as Canon?
  • Subject: Do You Accept Cryptum as Canon?
Subject: Do You Accept Cryptum as Canon?

My Grandfather was a Desert Ranger, my Father was a Veteran Ranger in the NCR. My father was killed by Caesar's Legion and they took my Brother. It's now my responsibility to uphold the mantle of the Rangers and avenge my Father and find my Brother.

No. I like the idea of the Forerunners "saving" life on the Ark instead of the war or whatever. Makes more sense!

[Edited on 06.01.2011 1:19 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2011 1:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Monkeybarsixx
No. I like the idea of the Forerunners "saving" life on the Ark instead of the war or whatever. Makes more sense!
Wait... wut?

  • 06.01.2011 1:20 PM PDT
  • gamertag: sum0ne
  • user homepage:

Thanks for Team Snipers Bungie.
Mythic Member, Legendary Member and back and forth. i just can't make up my mind!
Campaign - Halo C.E.>Halo 2>Halo 3
Multiplayer - Halo 2>Halo 3>Halo C.E.
Just about every thing I post is my opinion and nothing more. Be subjective. Respect other's opinions. Try to understand other's point of view.


Posted by: Techno Greek
I'll have to completely read Cryptum and try and give it another chance. I've been going off of synopsis and the few pages I read of it thus far, and I'm very irritated by Bear's style (once again, that's just me.)

I haven't read Contact: Harvest. It wasn't by Nylund, so I pretty much ignored it. I've heard good and bad things.

I'm a massive Fanboy, BTW, so sorry if I come off sounding like a Zealot...because I am.

Not at all. You seem like someone with an opinion. It's just not the same as mine. Nothing wrong with that.

I really, really liked Nylund and in a perfect world I wish he could write every thing. Unfortunately that's not going to happen. Especially if the Halo universe becomes like the Star Wars universe.

I'm very worried about Karen Traviss. A lot of people say she doesn't respect past canon and is more interest in writing "strong women" parts instead of the actual story. Except for her story in Legends i wouldn't know though.

  • 06.01.2011 1:35 PM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Traviss is an excellent writer, but she didn't do a story for Legends (I think you mean Evolutions). Honestly though, I assure you she'll do the Haloverse justice.

Whilst I love Nylund's books, I find his writing style to be fairly simplistic except for GoO. Staten's writing style in CH really gripped me and Buckell did a pretty good job in TCP.

  • 06.01.2011 1:51 PM PDT
  • gamertag: sum0ne
  • user homepage:

Thanks for Team Snipers Bungie.
Mythic Member, Legendary Member and back and forth. i just can't make up my mind!
Campaign - Halo C.E.>Halo 2>Halo 3
Multiplayer - Halo 2>Halo 3>Halo C.E.
Just about every thing I post is my opinion and nothing more. Be subjective. Respect other's opinions. Try to understand other's point of view.

You are correct. I make that mistake all of the time. I hope you are correct.

  • 06.01.2011 2:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Techno Greek
No, it kind of sounds like I'm irritated that a story I grew up with is being actively edited and rewritten with convoluted changes.

Nothing in the canon was rewritten, he merely filled in the blanks. I suppose with you, it's like adapting a book into a movie where the actor portraying whatever character is nothing like you imagined that character to be like, and the sets look different than what you thought they'd be. It's a logical response, as anyone would like to think that their vision is the "right" one, but at the end of the day, you just have to deal with it.

  • 06.01.2011 2:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: notnooborelite
I'm very worried about Karen Traviss. A lot of people say she doesn't respect past canon and is more interest in writing "strong women" parts instead of the actual story. Except for her story in Legends i wouldn't know though.


Quite the opposite actually. Traviss is where we get the definitive Mandalorian culture from. At least until Lucas redid everything and made them peaceful, diplomatic people instead of the badass, warlike band of fighters we all know and love. And really, the argument she doesn't stick to canon is absurd as the Clone Wars saga has no real concrete canon and most people against her use a rejected Empire Strikes Back script as a weapon against her credibility.

I think we'll be fine with her.

  • 06.01.2011 3:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I just play for fun. MLG can kiss my ass.

Yup.

  • 06.01.2011 3:09 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: notnooborelite
I'm very worried about Karen Traviss. A lot of people say she doesn't respect past canon and is more interest in writing "strong women" parts instead of the actual story. Except for her story in Legends i wouldn't know though.


Quite the opposite actually. Traviss is where we get the definitive Mandalorian culture from. At least until Lucas redid everything and made them peaceful, diplomatic people instead of the badass, warlike band of fighters we all know and love. And really, the argument she doesn't stick to canon is absurd as the Clone Wars saga has no real concrete canon and most people against her use a rejected Empire Strikes Back script as a weapon against her credibility.

I think we'll be fine with her.


I've only heard vague references to this mando change. Did it really go that far?

Though Mando warriors at that time period were pretty much wiped out. Least the most active ones...


Anyway, As long as Traviss doesn't make established characters act completely different, we should be fine.

  • 06.01.2011 3:12 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!

[Techno Greek]
You do seem hurt.


I like Greg's style. It gives us many details and even then, the forerunners are such that it's only skimming part of it! It's really good and it makes me want to reread it.

You call yourself a fanboy and haven't read contact harvest because it's not from Eric Nylund?
One could deduct that you don't like wars, ODST and Reach because you're not playing as John-117.

  • 06.01.2011 3:21 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Anyway, As long as Traviss doesn't make established characters act completely different, we should be fine.

Oh god...

Oh god oh god oh god oh god oh god

oh Rtas

  • 06.01.2011 3:25 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: notnooborelite

Posted by: Techno Greek
I'll have to completely read Cryptum and try and give it another chance. I've been going off of synopsis and the few pages I read of it thus far, and I'm very irritated by Bear's style (once again, that's just me.)

I haven't read Contact: Harvest. It wasn't by Nylund, so I pretty much ignored it. I've heard good and bad things.

I'm a massive Fanboy, BTW, so sorry if I come off sounding like a Zealot...because I am.

Not at all. You seem like someone with an opinion. It's just not the same as mine. Nothing wrong with that.

I really, really liked Nylund and in a perfect world I wish he could write every thing. Unfortunately that's not going to happen. Especially if the Halo universe becomes like the Star Wars universe.

I'm very worried about Karen Traviss. A lot of people say she doesn't respect past canon and is more interest in writing "strong women" parts instead of the actual story. Except for her story in Legends i wouldn't know though.

Traviss is an excellent author, with great characters, she rights a very gritty, realistic portrayal of war based on some of her own experiences (she used to be in the military).

The rumors about her "anti-cannon" writing was started by annoying Star Wars nerds who were mad at her because she was mad at George Lucas for retconning her Star Wars book series.

Also, read Contact Harvest. It and Cryptum are the two best Halo books in my opinion, and its technically "more cannon" in its depiction of the Halo universe than any other book, due to
the fact it was written by one of Halo's past writers.

  • 06.01.2011 4:13 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: notnooborelite
I'm very worried about Karen Traviss. A lot of people say she doesn't respect past canon and is more interest in writing "strong women" parts instead of the actual story. Except for her story in Legends i wouldn't know though.


Quite the opposite actually. Traviss is where we get the definitive Mandalorian culture from. At least until Lucas redid everything and made them peaceful, diplomatic people instead of the badass, warlike band of fighters we all know and love. And really, the argument she doesn't stick to canon is absurd as the Clone Wars saga has no real concrete canon and most people against her use a rejected Empire Strikes Back script as a weapon against her credibility.

I think we'll be fine with her.


I've only heard vague references to this mando change. Did it really go that far?

Though Mando warriors at that time period were pretty much wiped out. Least the most active ones...


Anyway, As long as Traviss doesn't make established characters act completely different, we should be fine.


She won't. Have you read her Gears of War books? She improves characters but she doesn't change them. Her books are pretty good.

  • 06.01.2011 4:14 PM PDT

Posted by: ajw34307
Traviss is an excellent writer, but she didn't do a story for Legends (I think you mean Evolutions). Honestly though, I assure you she'll do the Haloverse justice.

Whilst I love Nylund's books, I find his writing style to be fairly simplistic except for GoO. Staten's writing style in CH really gripped me and Buckell did a pretty good job in TCP.
To me it seemed like Nylund got a little better at writing in the Haloverse with each book. TFoR was cool, but it was clearly done during production with Nylund not having much to base his descriptions of the Covies on besides concept art and maybe some renders. Also, as you said, his style is lacking in many areas.

First Strike really got into the awesome, though, and TGoO is one of my favorite novels. I wish he would do more; I felt like he really got it down and then stopped. But I'm getting Off topic here.

[Edited on 06.01.2011 4:26 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2011 4:25 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Killer Crunch
With this parts of the game have suddenly become non-canon. Like in Halo 3 when the gravemind says to the master chief. "Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness, a fathers sins pass to his son."

This does not rule out the concept of adoption. The Forerunner adopted Humanity to be their heirs after an unknown amount of time and/or an unknown event. We will most likely find out in the next novels. This does not definitely mean that Humanity are the physical descendants or creation of the Forerunner, there is room for interpretation.

Posted by: Killer Crunch
or when the Prophet of truth says "I know now why they left you behind, you were weak and gods must be strong."

The Prophet of Truth is not entirely trustworthy, and whatever characters themselves think can sometimes be incorrect. It would be very boring if every character was omniscient and honest all the time.

From his viewpoint he thought that Humanity was the descendants because he was very ignorant of the truth, and from what he learned from Mendicant Bias. As for why Mendicant called Humanity his "makers and Masters" ... Well, Humanity had inherited all the Forerunners technology. That would include MB, therefore Humanity were his new masters.

Posted by: Killer Crunch
Humanity is the creation of the Forerunner, there last greatest creation intended to carry on the Mantel which was passed to them by the Precursors. In one of the computer logs on the ark between the two Forerunner, one of them seems to be describing earth and humanity, referring to us as "them."

No. It was explicitly stated that they stumbled upon Humanity in the terminals. At that time, almost everybody interpreted that to mean that the Forerunner found Humanity late into the war with the Flood. They could not have created Humanity.

Now however, they knew about Humanity for a while. However I think that the Librarian may not have been speaking about Humanity itself but rather something she discovered about Humanity; a discovery that was made late into the war. Somebody had definitely tampered with Earth and Humanity before the Forerunners got to them.

Posted by: Killer Crunch
Also what happened to these supposed human subspecies that were created by the Forerunner when the devolved us, a term I detest using.

They obviously died out, like many of Humanity's ancient cousins have. Neanderthals as an example.

Posted by: Killer Crunch
Why did the Elites forget our alliance and turn on us and worship the Forerunner?

Elites? Well that would be nice except that it was the Prophets. And they forgot about the alliance because they were likewise "de-evolved" after the Forerunner obliterated what was left of their race and civilisation. The Librarian only managed to save a few.


"You are the child of my makers, inheritor of all they left behind. YOU ARE FORERUNNER!!" 343 Guilty Spark

  • 06.01.2011 4:51 PM PDT

~Thomsn0w


Posted by: switch 104 sv
Of course Cryptum is canon.

  • 06.01.2011 5:05 PM PDT
  • gamertag: sum0ne
  • user homepage:

Thanks for Team Snipers Bungie.
Mythic Member, Legendary Member and back and forth. i just can't make up my mind!
Campaign - Halo C.E.>Halo 2>Halo 3
Multiplayer - Halo 2>Halo 3>Halo C.E.
Just about every thing I post is my opinion and nothing more. Be subjective. Respect other's opinions. Try to understand other's point of view.


Posted by: That Atheist
Also, read Contact Harvest. It and Cryptum are the two best Halo books in my opinion, and its technically "more cannon" in its depiction of the Halo universe than any other book, due to
the fact it was written by one of Halo's past writers.
Are you kidding? Contact Harvest killed canon. Brutes. I'm not going to get in to the discussion here so I'll leave it at that.

  • 06.01.2011 5:34 PM PDT


Posted by: notnooborelite

Posted by: That Atheist
Also, read Contact Harvest. It and Cryptum are the two best Halo books in my opinion, and its technically "more cannon" in its depiction of the Halo universe than any other book, due to
the fact it was written by one of Halo's past writers.
Are you kidding? Contact Harvest killed canon. Brutes. I'm not going to get in to the discussion here so I'll leave it at that.


Um... that's not really an explanation of how it killed canon.

Hell, that says nothing at all about it.

  • 06.01.2011 5:36 PM PDT


Posted by: notnooborelite

Posted by: That Atheist
Also, read Contact Harvest. It and Cryptum are the two best Halo books in my opinion, and its technically "more cannon" in its depiction of the Halo universe than any other book, due to
the fact it was written by one of Halo's past writers.
Are you kidding? Contact Harvest killed canon. Brutes. I'm not going to get in to the discussion here so I'll leave it at that.
You have to. There is absolutely no way that brutes in contact harvest kills canon. Your opinion literally makes no sense.

  • 06.01.2011 5:45 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Killer Crunch
"You are the child of my makers, inheritor of all they left behind. YOU ARE FORERUNNER!!" 343 Guilty Spark

Again, adopted child is not ruled out in the first line.

As for the Forerunner part, how is about this. In Cryptum it was explained how the Forerunners chose that name for themselves to indicate their very short time as the upholders of the Mantle; their existence was fleeting in the grand scheme of things. Forerunner is not their true species name, it is a title of sorts, that they gave themselves. Literally, the word means to herald the approach of another (Or to that effect). Those who uphold the Mantle, because they are supposedly around for so little time compared to the lifetime of the universe, will always be expected to pass on the Mantle at some point, thus they will herald another to uptake the responsibility. Therefore, they too will be Forerunners in namesake. Therefore, Humanity becomes Forerunner in that respect, but they are not physically related to the Forerunner in any way.

Or for a less convoluted explanation, Spark was rampant, insane and had just murdered Sgt. Johnson and was trying to kill Chief. Why would anyone take him seriously at this point?

  • 06.01.2011 6:09 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: switch 104 sv
Of course Cryptum is canon.

  • 06.01.2011 6:52 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..

Of course I do.

  • 06.01.2011 6:53 PM PDT

If you can read this, that means I'm not a Shaolin monk...

yet.


Posted by: tsassi2
It's more canon than Halo Reach could ever be. And I really don't like that game canon > book canon stuff. If there was a game where everyone rode with unicorns that shoot laser beams out of their eyes and where Halo rings are suddenly giant bunnies, would that be canon then. That principle just doesn't work if we want to have canon where everything makes sense. "Good" canon should override "bad" canon.

The BDF would accept that.

  • 06.01.2011 6:56 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Be nice to noobs..Remember even MLG players were noobs at one point.

Karen Traviss is a brilliant author. Given the only novels I have read that she has authored is the Gears of War series. But she fleshes out the story line very well and has a great style. She tends to dig deep into the characters mental struggles and emotions but it only adds to the mood of the story. Yes she does tend to write-in female parts and make them main characters in her books, but it helps to balance out the overabundance of male characters.


Posted by: notnooborelite

I'm very worried about Karen Traviss. A lot of people say she doesn't respect past canon and is more interest in writing "strong women" parts instead of the actual story. Except for her story in Legends i wouldn't know though.



I think that many people were expecting an action combat thriller when they heard about Cryptum, and I think that is why many don't like to accept it, simply because it isn't a combat oriented book.

Personally I think the character driven adventures in Cryptum flesh out the character and civilization of the Forerunners very nicely and I greatly appreciated the break in cycle of the constant combat driven storyline. Granted that the Halo series is meant to be a combat oriented series, but this shows us who the Forerunners truly were. It also gives us great insight into why we were chosen to take up the mantle and not some other race.

  • 06.01.2011 6:58 PM PDT

Nothing else has been writen about that time period in the halo universe, so why wouldn't it be canon?

  • 06.01.2011 7:31 PM PDT