Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: If TFoR was never written..
  • Subject: If TFoR was never written..
Subject: If TFoR was never written..
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Super EC Nate
If you were the covenent, would you send down thousands of dropships unescorted? They sent down THOUSANDS of fighters and banshees with them. How could isolated bases defeat a concentrated force of great firepower?


Proof of the banshees and seraph escort? Again, it'd take them TIME, of several hours at least, to reach Fleet command or other targets. By then even a trio of frigates could be sent to clear them out.

Keyes (If memory is right being the person talking about it) mentions ONLY dropships on sensors, even then only hundreds. UNSC Air Assets for Reach numbered 11,050.

I'm sorry, but for them to effortlessly land, deploy massive ground forces in that number, AND take out command and the generators within 2-3 hours is, frankly, retarded.


No it's not retarded to see that Reach fall in a day or two; you forget one thing about covenant- their technology.

It was supposed to show that Covenant are unstoppable alien genocide against the Humanity. And even with hundreds of ships (it also can be meant as thousands or more, since it says "hundred(s)" that would easily overwhelm the air assets or plasma bombardments from covenant fleet destroying various air bases.

And you do realize that Reach's fleet already suffered heavy losses, right? Especially from covenant fleet and their supercruiser's energy projectors in 100,000km killing any UNSC ships in one shots? Frankly, I doubt that UNSC Fleet had enough ships left to refocus to eliminate those dropships >.>

Come on, don't forget about that 3:1 kill ratio for UNSC and Covenant. I can give you several examples-

Several battles in early 2525 to 2543-

Second Battle of Harvest

Battle-group X-Ray: 40 warships fought against a covenant super-destroyer. Guess how many UNSC lost to that ship? 13.

Or,

Battle of Alpha Aurigae

There was about 117 UNSC warships fought against 12 covenant ships. Guess, how many UNSC ships has lost to that 12? 37.

And,

Battle of Psi Serpentis

Admiral Cole with his 162 warships fights against 300 covenant ships. It ended victory for UNSC but, it has heavy losses: over 70 unsc ships lost in matters of hours.

I gave you several examples how this space battle would looked for UNSC vs Covenant. Do you see that 3:1 Kill ratio in those battles, right? Exactly.

That's why Reach, being fortress were easily taken down in a day or two, while ground battles lasted about a week to two. Covenant had like, 314 warships while Reach Defense Fleet had 150 warships with 20 ODPs. Can you see any hope that Reach would won the battle? No!

Reach would be won if UNSC had superior numbers against the Covenant fleet, while suffering massive losses.


[Edited on 05.31.2011 7:51 PM PDT]

  • 05.31.2011 7:45 PM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."

The reason why it took a week or two, is because the Covenant sent a scout ship. The Long Night of Solace, to scout and send in advanced recon units and fighting units ground side while it was cloaked. Since the Visegrad Relay was completely taken out, the UNSC couldn't see the ship. After the LNoS was destroyed, The Covenant had enough info about the planet's offensive and defensive spots. So, the fleet was sent to take the planet.

  • 05.31.2011 8:25 PM PDT

Their tech may be good, but it doesn't -blam!- make their dropships suddenly break their in atmosphere top speed. It doesn't make them immune to the HEAVY loses they took when those dropships were flying to the poles.

It's like a WW2 paratrooper drop in combat. They lost a lot of soldiers, gear, and would have to regroup and reorganize to be able to do anything effectively.

That, combined with travel time, makes such a quick fall due to the ground attacks on key targets (All of which were nowhere near the poles) crazy.

Edit: Okay, I can agree there would be escorts, but thousands? More like hundreds due to the strike which took out most of the dropships. Even then that doesn't make the phantoms and spirits unable to be hit by UNSC counter-attacks.

[Edited on 05.31.2011 8:40 PM PDT]

  • 05.31.2011 8:37 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Their tech may be good, but it doesn't -blam!- make their dropships suddenly break their in atmosphere top speed. It doesn't make them immune to the HEAVY loses they took when those dropships were flying to the poles.

It's like a WW2 paratrooper drop in combat. They lost a lot of soldiers, gear, and would have to regroup and reorganize to be able to do anything effectively.

That, combined with travel time, makes such a quick fall due to the ground attacks on key targets (All of which were nowhere near the poles) crazy.

Edit: Okay, I can agree there would be escorts, but thousands? More like hundreds due to the strike which took out most of the dropships. Even then that doesn't make the phantoms and spirits unable to be hit by UNSC counter-attacks.


As it may caused heavy losses among in dropships but it was entirely futile since massive numbers of troops were dropped and overrun the ODP generators; ending the battle above of Reach in a day or two. And, arrival of Covenant fleet has surprised UNSC, giving them little time to organize.

Also it's possible after that first wave of dropships; covenant fleet probably sent several more waves of dropships with escorts, thus overwhelming the defenses of Reach, since numbers plays key role of determining the fate of Reach. So, UNSC Air Force probably tried their best but, was not enough to stop overwhelming vast armies of dropships...

Timeline of the battle is fine, especially if you have massive numbers of troops, it can be done in quick succession, it takes military genius to do it and you know that Elites are capable of excellent military tacticians and military planners since their culture is based on warfare/military.

  • 05.31.2011 8:47 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Their tech may be good, but it doesn't -blam!- make their dropships suddenly break their in atmosphere top speed. It doesn't make them immune to the HEAVY loses they took when those dropships were flying to the poles.

It's like a WW2 paratrooper drop in combat. They lost a lot of soldiers, gear, and would have to regroup and reorganize to be able to do anything effectively.

That, combined with travel time, makes such a quick fall due to the ground attacks on key targets (All of which were nowhere near the poles) crazy.

Edit: Okay, I can agree there would be escorts, but thousands? More like hundreds due to the strike which took out most of the dropships. Even then that doesn't make the phantoms and spirits unable to be hit by UNSC counter-attacks.


As it may caused heavy losses among in dropships but it was entirely futile since massive numbers of troops were dropped and overrun the ODP generators; ending the battle above of Reach in a day or two. And, arrival of Covenant fleet has surprised UNSC, giving them little time to organize.

Also it's possible after that first wave of dropships; covenant fleet probably sent several more waves of dropships with escorts, thus overwhelming the defenses of Reach, since numbers plays key role of determining the fate of Reach. So, UNSC Air Force probably tried their best but, was not enough to stop overwhelming vast armies of dropships...

Timeline of the battle is fine, especially if you have massive numbers of troops, it can be done in quick succession, it takes military genius to do it and you know that Elites are capable of excellent military tacticians and military planners since their culture is based on warfare/military.


Well, I'm talking pure book version of battle, not the game version as well.

Yes, the Elites may be able to pull of quick, deadly attacks, but they would have to regroup and reorganize to figure out what survived the descent. Then you have travel time. It simply adds up to way to long for the ground battle to disable the generators within the few hour time-span the book gave.

  • 05.31.2011 8:53 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Their tech may be good, but it doesn't -blam!- make their dropships suddenly break their in atmosphere top speed. It doesn't make them immune to the HEAVY loses they took when those dropships were flying to the poles.

It's like a WW2 paratrooper drop in combat. They lost a lot of soldiers, gear, and would have to regroup and reorganize to be able to do anything effectively.

That, combined with travel time, makes such a quick fall due to the ground attacks on key targets (All of which were nowhere near the poles) crazy.

Edit: Okay, I can agree there would be escorts, but thousands? More like hundreds due to the strike which took out most of the dropships. Even then that doesn't make the phantoms and spirits unable to be hit by UNSC counter-attacks.


As it may caused heavy losses among in dropships but it was entirely futile since massive numbers of troops were dropped and overrun the ODP generators; ending the battle above of Reach in a day or two. And, arrival of Covenant fleet has surprised UNSC, giving them little time to organize.

Also it's possible after that first wave of dropships; covenant fleet probably sent several more waves of dropships with escorts, thus overwhelming the defenses of Reach, since numbers plays key role of determining the fate of Reach. So, UNSC Air Force probably tried their best but, was not enough to stop overwhelming vast armies of dropships...

Timeline of the battle is fine, especially if you have massive numbers of troops, it can be done in quick succession, it takes military genius to do it and you know that Elites are capable of excellent military tacticians and military planners since their culture is based on warfare/military.


Well, I'm talking pure book version of battle, not the game version as well.

Yes, the Elites may be able to pull of quick, deadly attacks, but they would have to regroup and reorganize to figure out what survived the descent. Then you have travel time. It simply adds up to way to long for the ground battle to disable the generators within the few hour time-span the book gave.


It's possible that Covenant have briefed their troops for several purposes: Destroy the generators of ODPs during the battle, and do other stuff.

All troops would know one thing to achieve: Destroy the generators at all costs, to allow the Covenant to win in the space battle and destroying the Reach. Elites would be with them as well, to lead their remaining companies/divisions to generators in short of time.

  • 05.31.2011 8:58 PM PDT

"We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds...'
I suppose we all thought that one way or another."
- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Posted by: II Cipher
Posted by: JaxBug
If TFoR was never written, H:R would not exist.


Read the CE manual.
Lost it. Never read it. I realize Reach was mentioned in CE though. But TFoR was a bestseller and somewhat of an inspiration for the game.

  • 05.31.2011 9:41 PM PDT

In memory of those fallen in the defense of Earth and her colonies.

March 3, 2553


Posted by: boogerman77
false.


It is still a horrible campaign. One of the worst, i take that back, it is the worst Halo campaign and story.

All others are greatly written.

  • 05.31.2011 9:59 PM PDT


Posted by: cameo_cream

Posted by: boogerman77
false.


It is still a horrible campaign. One of the worst, i take that back, it is the worst Halo campaign and story.

All others are greatly written.


Ha ha. IMO, Reach is a good campaign.

Just like your opinion is that is sucks for who knows why.

  • 05.31.2011 10:02 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

There's a type of person that fails at everything, and they are known as "Reachtards". Do the world a favor and prevent them from reproducing; keeping the gene pool above Down syndrome-level is the only hope for gaming.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Ha ha. IMO, Reach is a good campaign.

Just like your opinion is that is sucks for who knows why.

Wow. I didn't realize someone could be so deluded that they can blatantly ignore the massive flaws in Reach's campaign. Maybe your brain was knocked loose from riding Bungie's dick so hard? Just a thought.

  • 06.01.2011 12:51 PM PDT

Ah yes, when canon discussion and statements about opinions get trolled... funtimes.

  • 06.01.2011 12:58 PM PDT

Posted by: JaxBug
Posted by: II Cipher
Posted by: JaxBug
If TFoR was never written, H:R would not exist.


Read the CE manual.
Lost it. Never read it. I realize Reach was mentioned in CE though. But TFoR was a bestseller and somewhat of an inspiration for the game.
Firs Strike actually has a ton more content about the battle on the surface than TFoR had. That's where I think the bulk of the game's feel should have come from.

  • 06.01.2011 12:59 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
opinions

...

  • 06.01.2011 1:00 PM PDT

Posted by: aaz b
I think 2 months is too long, but 1 day is too short

Perhaps maybe 3-4 days would be fine.

Because even though they were heavily outnumbered, it was established on Installation 04 that the UNSC was better than the covenant during ground combat. So the UNSC should have been able to defend several locations for at least a day or two...shouldn't it?

Then again, having Reach fall in 1 day shows the might of the Covenant.

Edit: If Reach in TFoR fell within a day, how did Earth actually survive? Surely the Covenant would have sent alot more ships than they did to Reach (Obviouslly after Regret found out Earth was the human home world)
That's partially explained in Halo 2. Regret jumped the gun, and went in with no support at all (just his comparably small fleet).

  • 06.01.2011 1:19 PM PDT


Posted by: aaz b
I think 2 months is too long, but 1 day is too short

Perhaps maybe 3-4 days would be fine.

Because even though they were heavily outnumbered, it was established on Installation 04 that the UNSC was better than the covenant during ground combat. So the UNSC should have been able to defend several locations for at least a day or two...shouldn't it?

Then again, having Reach fall in 1 day shows the might of the Covenant.

Edit: If Reach in TFoR fell within a day, how did Earth actually survive? Surely the Covenant would have sent alot more ships than they did to Reach (Obviouslly after Regret found out Earth was the human home world)


In the game the battle started after LNOS mission. We can assume at the start of Exodus, fighting groundside in New Alexandria has happened for five days. Most likely true of any widespread ground conflicts. Few more days, the Fleet of Particular Justice arrives and finishes the defenders off.

  • 06.01.2011 1:21 PM PDT

False.

  • 06.01.2011 1:42 PM PDT

Hanger one I just shredded with the SMGs until ammo was out and I just threw 'nades like a boss while BRing.

My experience playing Cairo Station on Legendary

It wouldn't make it that much better, but if neither TFoF OR Ghosts of Onyx was written, then I would consider accepting it as canon. They made the universe around the game, and not the other way around which I despise.

  • 06.01.2011 1:51 PM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.


Posted by: boogerman77
false.

  • 06.01.2011 2:48 PM PDT

Once a Mythic, always a Mythic. '04 or Bust.
Extr3me Escalator Diving

Elites of War
Indeed

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Posted by: Snake Archer
False. ODST had the best campaign of all the Halo games.

This.

  • 06.01.2011 3:19 PM PDT

"We knew the world would not be the same.
A few people laughed, a few people cried, most people were silent.
I remembered the line from the Hindu scripture, the Bhagavad-Gita.
Vishnu is trying to persuade the Prince that he should do his duty and to impress him takes on his multi-armed form and says,
'Now, I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds...'
I suppose we all thought that one way or another."
- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Posted by: Techno Greek
Posted by: JaxBug
Posted by: II Cipher
Posted by: JaxBug
If TFoR was never written, H:R would not exist.


Read the CE manual.
Lost it. Never read it. I realize Reach was mentioned in CE though. But TFoR was a bestseller and somewhat of an inspiration for the game.
Firs Strike actually has a ton more content about the battle on the surface than TFoR had. That's where I think the bulk of the game's feel should have come from.

Ah yes, that's right...
I really should go reread those books again. My memory's starting to get foggy.

  • 06.01.2011 4:22 PM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!

Posted by: Techno Greek
Posted by: JaxBug
Posted by: II Cipher
Posted by: JaxBug
If TFoR was never written, H:R would not exist.


Read the CE manual.
Lost it. Never read it. I realize Reach was mentioned in CE though. But TFoR was a bestseller and somewhat of an inspiration for the game.
Firs Strike actually has a ton more content about the battle on the surface than TFoR had. That's where I think the bulk of the game's feel should have come from.


I remember, when I started reading First Strike, being pleasantly surprised that the book continued on the battle at Reach, and actually showed what happened on the ground. The description of Fred and co. arriving to the sight of hundreds of corpses, having been too late to the battle, was something I thought would have been brilliantly moving for the Campaign; or something similar.

EDIT: Hmm, they may have felt that too graphic.

[Edited on 06.01.2011 5:12 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2011 5:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Nate Cleaves


Posted by: aaz b
I think 2 months is too long, but 1 day is too short

Perhaps maybe 3-4 days would be fine.

Because even though they were heavily outnumbered, it was established on Installation 04 that the UNSC was better than the covenant during ground combat. So the UNSC should have been able to defend several locations for at least a day or two...shouldn't it?

Then again, having Reach fall in 1 day shows the might of the Covenant.

Edit: If Reach in TFoR fell within a day, how did Earth actually survive? Surely the Covenant would have sent alot more ships than they did to Reach (Obviouslly after Regret found out Earth was the human home world)

The battles between the elites and the brutes kept them from taking many ships with them.
Back on topic, the UNSC was surprised on reach. Their air force had little time to orginize a counter-attack. Besides, for all we know they could have already been deployed into the space battle. Bungie never told us of the wearabouts of the air forces.

  • 06.01.2011 5:15 PM PDT

Things like Sparrowhawks or skyhawks cannot go into space...

Forgot to toss in they could deploy vultures as well.

  • 06.01.2011 5:24 PM PDT