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This topic has moved here: Subject: If TFoR was never written..
  • Subject: If TFoR was never written..
Subject: If TFoR was never written..

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

After the initial assault, over 100 Covenant ships remained while the UNSC was brought down to about 20. 680mph is only the Spirit's maximum speed in atmosphere. They're obviously capable of traveling faster in space, which is where they were deployed initially. As a result, the dropships were capable of hitting FLEETCOM HQ fast, and they were overwhelmed. Without a coordinated ground resistance, the generator defenses were just isolated units, and they fell in quick succession. Without the ODPs, the remaining UNSC fleet was slaughtered and the PoA (which was never docked planetside) executed a random Slipspace jump.

Oh, and in the Flood, those were 50mm autocannons salvaged from the PoA. You know, point defense cannons designed to destroy ship-to-ship fighters, boarding vessels and dropships.

[Edited on 05.29.2011 7:52 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 7:51 PM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
Oh, and in the Flood, those were 50mm autocannons salvaged from the PoA. You know, point defense cannons designed to destroy ship-to-ship fighters, boarding vessels and dropships.


Actually, I'm talking in the raid of the PoA for vehicles and supplies.

I believe it was a single squad turned, opened fire on a spirit, and it crashed and burned.

Oh, now magically the spirits flew to High Command in space, when they flew INTO the atmosphere toward the poles and got shot at?

  • 05.29.2011 7:55 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
To deploy such great forces however, means the space line had to be beaten. However, to beat the space line the generators had to be destroyed. Therefore the only scenario which fits in the generators were poorly defended.

My brother made the perfect comparison. D-day. Was D-day known because of the length of the battle? No. It's known because the attackers won, and that's it.

Actually in order to neutralize an ODP you don't have to shutdown the generator powering it on the ground. "The Return" mentions how a Shipmaster's command had destroyed three of them from space during the battle of Reach.

  • 05.29.2011 7:56 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Posted by: Lord Slade
Oh, and in the Flood, those were 50mm autocannons salvaged from the PoA. You know, point defense cannons designed to destroy ship-to-ship fighters, boarding vessels and dropships.

Actually, I'm talking in the raid of the PoA for vehicles and supplies.

I believe it was a single squad turned, opened fire on a spirit, and it crashed and burned.

Well, they better have hundreds of squads mounting an offense against the defending Covenant dropships. Oh, wait.

Oh, now magically the spirits flew to High Command in space, when they flew INTO the atmosphere toward the poles and got shot at?
TFoR: Hundreds of dropships streamed toward the planet's surface.
They were deployed in space, and it took them long enough to fly to the poles before entering atmosphere that the UNSC's remaining fleet plus the ODPs could fire at them, destroying many of them but leaving hundreds more.

[Edited on 05.29.2011 8:08 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 8:07 PM PDT

Um, you just confirmed my line. They were at the poles, meaning they were at least hours away from UNSC command centers.

Hundreds, against the UNSC air force.

Also, UNSC command building being taken out in no way makes the generator complexes less defended, or harder to hold. It just means they aren't sure their calls are being answered. Overall the fortifications would still be sound.

  • 05.29.2011 8:23 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Um, you just confirmed my line. They were at the poles, meaning they were at least hours away from UNSC command centers.

Hundreds, against the UNSC air force.

Also, UNSC command building being taken out in no way makes the generator complexes less defended, or harder to hold. It just means they aren't sure their calls are being answered. Overall the fortifications would still be sound.

How the dropships got there is irrelevant. What matters is they did make it, and were clearly fast enough to do so. Without a coordinated defense there was no way to send reinforcements to the teams defending the generators, and either way the defense teams weren't enough to hold off the Covenant.

  • 05.29.2011 8:32 PM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Makko Mace
False. No charachter development what so ever, I was cheering as Noble team died.


*Facepalm* It's a FPS, not an RPG.

Also, for that reason then we should hate... CE?

I learned next to nothing about Foehammer, Keyes, Johnson, Master Chief even during the campaign.
To be fair, Bungie stressed how much Reach would provide a more 'human' story than any other game in the series. They wanted us to feel strongly for Noble Team, and their situation. It didn't happen, unfortunately.

  • 05.29.2011 8:43 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: AlienTounge
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: Makko Mace
False. No charachter development what so ever, I was cheering as Noble team died.


*Facepalm* It's a FPS, not an RPG.

Also, for that reason then we should hate... CE?

I learned next to nothing about Foehammer, Keyes, Johnson, Master Chief even during the campaign.
To be fair, Bungie stressed how much Reach would provide a more 'human' story than any other game in the series. They wanted us to feel strongly for Noble Team, and their situation. It didn't happen, unfortunately.


I actually felt bad for Noble Team, knowing full well that they would die and their deaths saddened me to a certain extent.

  • 05.29.2011 8:57 PM PDT


Posted by: Astrogenesis 1

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: boogerman77
false.

Reach contradics more than just the first book.


are we saying no book was written? even still reach will never have the best story.

  • 05.29.2011 9:50 PM PDT

Bungie would've done better to make a game that tells the story of the 25 year war before reach fell. Devote a game fully to letting us get to know the characters and the plight humanity faces (all the spartans including noble team). Especially how the spartan-IIIs were all orphaned at the hands of the covenant. Heck they could've made halo reach span the time from when noble-6 was a 6 year old child and his parents had just died at the hands of the covenant, his planet glassed. Then the spartan-III training under kurt and mendez, and then eventually being separated from the rest of the S-IIIs when s/he gets mjolnir instead of SPI. It would let the player understand not just noble-6, but the plight of all the S-IIIs (orphaned at the hands of the covenant).

We would actually feel for noble team when they died at reach.

  • 05.29.2011 10:20 PM PDT


Posted by: Wazooty
Bungie would've done better to make a game that tells the story of the 25 year war before reach fell. Devote a game fully to letting us get to know the characters and the plight humanity faces (all the spartans including noble team). Especially how the spartan-IIIs were all orphaned at the hands of the covenant. Heck they could've made halo reach span the time from when noble-6 was a 6 year old child and his parents had just died at the hands of the covenant, his planet glassed. Then the spartan-III training under kurt and mendez, and then eventually being separated from the rest of the S-IIIs when s/he gets mjolnir instead of SPI. It would let the player understand not just noble-6, but the plight of all the S-IIIs (orphaned at the hands of the covenant).

We would actually feel for noble team when they died at reach.


hate to say it but you GREATLY over eastimate bungie.

  • 05.29.2011 10:31 PM PDT

Interesting plot, but that'd require an RPG... maybe a few to pull off.

I just don't see an FPS having a massively character driven story...

  • 05.29.2011 10:33 PM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: Wazooty
TFOR covers a 40 year period, Halo: Reach covers a 2 month period.


This comparison is flipping stupid.

And reaches story was convoluted and dumb, however TFORs version of reaches fall would have benefitted from some things in the game (2 week battle vs a 1 day battle mostly, the UNSC's most important planet of all time falling in a day is a little quick, plus a 2 week battle would have given time for blue team to fight on the ground as well, etc etc).

Reach was supposed to fall in one day. It was symbolic--it showed just how dangerous the UNSC's plight truly is.


No, the important thing was that Reach fell, not how long it took to fall. DaeFaron's right, looking back at it, even before Reach came out, it doesn't make the Covenant seem unbeatable, it makes the UNSC look like the biggest fools in the world. Reach falling in a couple hours just looks silly going back and thinking about it. The odds between the Covenant and the UNSC were almost exactly the same as always, and even if they sent thousands of dropships down to Reach besieging the generators would take weeks especially since it would take time to even coordinate a proper attack on the generators as well.

  • 05.30.2011 9:56 AM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: Wazooty
TFOR covers a 40 year period, Halo: Reach covers a 2 month period.


This comparison is flipping stupid.

And reaches story was convoluted and dumb, however TFORs version of reaches fall would have benefitted from some things in the game (2 week battle vs a 1 day battle mostly, the UNSC's most important planet of all time falling in a day is a little quick, plus a 2 week battle would have given time for blue team to fight on the ground as well, etc etc).

Reach was supposed to fall in one day. It was symbolic--it showed just how dangerous the UNSC's plight truly is.


No, the important thing was that Reach fell, not how long it took to fall. DaeFaron's right, looking back at it, even before Reach came out, it doesn't make the Covenant seem unbeatable, it makes the UNSC look like the biggest fools in the world. Reach falling in a couple hours just looks silly going back and thinking about it. The odds between the Covenant and the UNSC were almost exactly the same as always, and even if they sent thousands of dropships down to Reach besieging the generators would take weeks especially since it would take time to even coordinate a proper attack on the generators as well.

Again, you don't need shutdown a generator in order to neutralize a SMAC.

  • 05.30.2011 10:47 AM PDT

Extremely long time fan of Halo and Bungie. More-so Bungie than Halo, I love where you guys started and I love where you are today. Don't worry, 343i will take good care of Halo. I am also on Rooster Teeth at SuckItBleu77, or you may follow my Twitter by the same name, peace out guys, and remember to respect the Seven7th.


Posted by: tsassi2
False. Halo Reach just has way too many errors that not only conflict estabilished canon but common sense too.

  • 05.30.2011 11:06 AM PDT

Think before you post


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Interesting plot, but that'd require an RPG... maybe a few to pull off.

I just don't see an FPS having a massively character driven story...
Its hard to. The only time you interact deeply with other characters is in cut-scenes. And even if you have full customization of your character, you only see your hands.

  • 05.30.2011 11:40 AM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!

I never expected an RPG-level of character development in Reach, but I did expect them to be fleshed out to a reasonable degree. I thought they did a good job with Buck and co. in ODST, and was looking forward to how they improved for Reach, particularly because of the tragic event the Campaign was based upon. They took a step back, though. Not only did we not get to see enough of the man/woman behind the visor, but in some cases we saw very little of them before they perished. It wasn't long enough for me to grow an attachment. Emile, well, he was practically non-existent for most of it. Same with Jun. Where was the mission alone with Carter? Speaking of which, Carter and Kat had promise, especially as they seemed to have a particular relationship, compared to the rest.

Bungie either shouldn't have split Noble up so much, or given the time they were alone with Six to delve into their psyche. I was expecting Kat to reference the events depicted in the Deliver Hope trailer. I thought she'd start off quite harsh to Six, but gradually ease off as she deals with her issues. It needn't be overly sentimental, cheesy, viewing (they are hardened warriors after all), but it would be made clear that she's dealing with her own demons. I predicted her death to be some kind of redemption thing.

It could have been done, regardless of its genre. They just need to create a meaty Campaign. I'm disappointed it never happened.

  • 05.30.2011 2:01 PM PDT

Um, Kat did start becoming more friendly toward Six as the campaign progressed...

I honestly felt Six and Jorge, then Emile connected the most.

  • 05.30.2011 2:05 PM PDT

Intolerance is the highest level of stupidity and inbred thinking.

MI: 5213901 UI: 5244621

Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Posted by: Snake Archer
False. ODST had the best campaign of all the Halo games.

This.
This. ODST had a beautifully sculpted campaign, followed by Halo CE and Halo 2, then Halo 3, and only after that, Halo: Reach. Reach wasn't bad. I enjoyed it. But, the story wasn't the best. It was simply ok in my book.

  • 05.30.2011 2:08 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: RollinRollin13
Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Posted by: Snake Archer
False. ODST had the best campaign of all the Halo games.

This.
This. ODST had a beautifully sculpted campaign, followed by Halo CE and Halo 2, then Halo 3, and only after that, Halo: Reach. Reach wasn't bad. I enjoyed it. But, the story wasn't the best. It was simply ok in my book.


I think it is the gameplay and the graphical enhancement you guys liked, not the actual story.

The story was find your squad mates and then leave, seriously thats all it was.

The stealth like aspect of it is what made it stand out.

  • 05.30.2011 2:11 PM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!

No, Kat was just Kat throughout. She's rude to everyone, but I imagined she would have felt quite strongly about Six, as the replacement for the one that died before; especially given the circumstances (shown in the trailer).

You felt something for Emile? He got practically no air time. He hinted at potential when he remarked how Jorge forgot what he was, but then following that we got nothing. He would have been interesting to get to know, I'm sure. Jorge, I guess I can understand; we saw more of him than any other. Six's death was moving, but then Six doesn't count because the player were Six.

  • 05.30.2011 2:17 PM PDT


Posted by: AlienTounge
No, Kat was just Kat throughout. She's rude to everyone, but I imagined she would have felt quite strongly about Six, as the replacement for the one that died before; especially given the circumstances (shown in the trailer).

You felt something for Emile? He got practically no air time. He hinted at potential when he remarked how Jorge forgot what he was, but then following that we got nothing. He would have been interesting to get to know, I'm sure. Jorge, I guess I can understand; we saw more of him than any other. Six's death was moving, but then Six doesn't count because the player were Six.


I mean, Jorge and Emile connected to Six the most.

Also, nah, Kat actually did change as the campaign went through. She became more accepting of Six, especially in New Alexandria.

  • 05.30.2011 2:22 PM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: AlienTounge
No, Kat was just Kat throughout. She's rude to everyone, but I imagined she would have felt quite strongly about Six, as the replacement for the one that died before; especially given the circumstances (shown in the trailer).

You felt something for Emile? He got practically no air time. He hinted at potential when he remarked how Jorge forgot what he was, but then following that we got nothing. He would have been interesting to get to know, I'm sure. Jorge, I guess I can understand; we saw more of him than any other. Six's death was moving, but then Six doesn't count because the player were Six.


I mean, Jorge and Emile connected to Six the most.

Also, nah, Kat actually did change as the campaign went through. She became more accepting of Six, especially in New Alexandria.

Oh, ok. Jorge definitely did. I'm not sure of Emile so much. His feelings weren't so obvious to me, bar the inkling I got that he divided Spatans and humans. Not sure if he felt very little of the latter.

I thought that was because of the events unfolding, rather than Six, himself. She was softer, in general, as she started to realize/believe the possibility that Reach will fall to the might of the Covenant. Jorge's death contributed to her change, also. I don't think it was down to one specific person.


[Edited on 05.30.2011 3:04 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2011 3:00 PM PDT
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The Seventh Column demands it.

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Halo 2 had superior story telling, and better characterization, but Halo definitely had a better story.

As far as Reach having the best story...

It's easily the worst out of them all story-wise. The gameplay and level design has never been better though, so the overall campaign to me is very compelling.

[Edited on 05.30.2011 3:52 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2011 3:50 PM PDT


Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: Wazooty
TFOR covers a 40 year period, Halo: Reach covers a 2 month period.


This comparison is flipping stupid.

And reaches story was convoluted and dumb, however TFORs version of reaches fall would have benefitted from some things in the game (2 week battle vs a 1 day battle mostly, the UNSC's most important planet of all time falling in a day is a little quick, plus a 2 week battle would have given time for blue team to fight on the ground as well, etc etc).

Reach was supposed to fall in one day. It was symbolic--it showed just how dangerous the UNSC's plight truly is.


No, the important thing was that Reach fell, not how long it took to fall. DaeFaron's right, looking back at it, even before Reach came out, it doesn't make the Covenant seem unbeatable, it makes the UNSC look like the biggest fools in the world. Reach falling in a couple hours just looks silly going back and thinking about it. The odds between the Covenant and the UNSC were almost exactly the same as always, and even if they sent thousands of dropships down to Reach besieging the generators would take weeks especially since it would take time to even coordinate a proper attack on the generators as well.

Again, you don't need shutdown a generator in order to neutralize a SMAC.


To even have a chance of taking a SMAC out they have to get close enough, and then they would be in the effective range of the SMAC station, the most efficient way to take the ODPs out without significant ship losses was taking down the generators. And as I said before it would take quite a while for the Covenant to even have a chance at destroying the generators.

  • 05.30.2011 4:56 PM PDT