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Subject: TFoR: Discrepancies
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

I've noticed several people complaining about the quality of the content in the original 'The Fall of Reach' novel, authored by Eric Nylund, mainly regarding the title event, the fall of the military industrial planet, Reach.

More often than not, people are citing the battle, which supposedly lasted two hours, the sizes of the respective fleets, and the tactics used.

[The introduction of various elements of the Covenant species/hierarchy withheld, although I never had much of a problem with this at all as it added to the mystery and fear of how little we knew about the Covenant]

Please, if you have an issue with the original [not the 're-issued'] novel, point them out here, so that I can get the lowdown. If we can lay out the issues, perhaps they can be rectified with genuine logic, though I'm willing to concede to fair points :)

To address the issue of the length of the battle:

- The initial space engagement lasted two hours, yes, however, Reach fell over a period of roughly 23 days [The withdrawal of Ascendant Justice/Gettysburg from the system after retrieving the surviving members of Red Team, Vice Admiral Whitcomb, Doctor Halsey and the mysterious Forerunner Crystal] after the initial invasion fleet arrived. Evidence of this is found in the novel First Strike, granted there are time/date anomalies created by various encounters with alien [Forerunner] artifacts, not subject to the accepted laws of space and time.

It would be naive to assume that the amalgamated Red Team were the only survivors of the assault on the planet, and that they were also, the only element of survivors conducting a guerrilla campaign against the Covenant.

That the Covenant glassed the poles of the planet is a logical move, granted that most weather is driven from/by the poles of a planet with an atmosphere/gravity, similar to that of Earth.

-To address the tactics used by the Covenant fleet, to quote, 'Zerg Rushing' the planetary defences. If you have an issue with that, you must be stupid. If you outnumber an enemy force by several factors, its only logical to assume you will overrun/overwhelm their defences. Simple as it may be, it works, as proven by the fact that the primary defences for the planet fell with the initial invasion wave.

Again, please point out any discrepancies regarding the novel, with particular attention to contradictions with Halo Reach. I personally dislike Halo Reach from a story stand point, but I'm happy to discuss this further with the community :)

One rule in this thread:

Keep it clean.

Thanks,

~Ben.



  • 05.29.2011 10:36 PM PDT

If I don't believe in him...



why should he believe in me?

i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this

  • 05.29.2011 10:38 PM PDT


Posted by: MC LOL88
i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this


i much agree. although for the game i wish it took 15-20 hours because a 2 hour campaign wouldnt work.

  • 05.29.2011 10:40 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: MC LOL88
i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this

Sounds more like a half-baked attempt at making an ending.

  • 05.29.2011 10:41 PM PDT

Posted by: boogerman77

Posted by: MC LOL88
i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this


i much agree. although for the game i wish it took 15-20 hours because a 2 hour campaign wouldnt work.

It could of been a REALLY long 2 hour campaign. But honestly, I played Halo: Reach before I read the books. The book is a lot better and believable.
I don't get why the game had to be all over the place. It felt sort of sloppy and that there wasn't really any "chaos" besides the Exodus level where theres* civilians getting slaughtered.

[Edited on 05.29.2011 10:44 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 10:43 PM PDT

If I don't believe in him...



why should he believe in me?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: MC LOL88
i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this

Sounds more like a half-baked attempt at making an ending.

my uncle is a neighbor of Nylund
apparently, the book was shoved onto to him, he got a dissapointing pay for the job, and it seems as if bungie didnt care
they treated him like crap, so dont point fingers at him

  • 05.29.2011 10:43 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: MC LOL88

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: MC LOL88
i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this

Sounds more like a half-baked attempt at making an ending.

my uncle is a neighbor of Nylund
apparently, the book was shoved onto to him, he got a dissapointing pay for the job, and it seems as if bungie didnt care
they treated him like crap, so dont point fingers at him

It was still a crappy ending from Nylund.

  • 05.29.2011 10:45 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


DecepticonCobra

Please do not post material that will encourage flaming or trolling. If you have nothing intelligent or on topic to add, please don't add anything at all :)

Also, this isn't about what we wanted from the campaign of Halo Reach, it's about issues with the novel, with attention paid to contradictions withing the game [not be confused with Privet Caboose's thread]

  • 05.29.2011 10:47 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: MC LOL88

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: MC LOL88
i like the original telling cause it really captured the mood of the war: it was hopeless and the covenant were unbeatable
i loved the 2 hour version because of this

Sounds more like a half-baked attempt at making an ending.

my uncle is a neighbor of Nylund
apparently, the book was shoved onto to him, he got a dissapointing pay for the job, and it seems as if bungie didnt care
they treated him like crap, so dont point fingers at him

It was still a crappy ending from Nylund.

It was still continued in another book though. At least it wasn't like "Oh reach fell, lets all retreat and leave the other spartans to die." They came back to the topic. Not in the best way, but it still beats the covenant managing to sneak a super carrier above Reach and have it hiding there for a week.

  • 05.29.2011 10:48 PM PDT

I loved the start of the book. I felt the ending was too fast.

  • 05.29.2011 10:49 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: spartan120

DecepticonCobra

Please do not post material that will encourage flaming or trolling. If you have nothing intelligent or on topic to add, please don't add anything at all :)

Also, this isn't about what we wanted from the campaign of Halo Reach, it's about issues with the novel, with attention paid to contradictions withing the game [not be confused with Privet Caboose's thread]

So others can bash Reach and praise the book, but I can't bash the book without flaming others? Wow. The book sucked in my opinion and it barely counts with new novels and media contradicting it.

  • 05.29.2011 10:49 PM PDT

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: spartan120

DecepticonCobra

Please do not post material that will encourage flaming or trolling. If you have nothing intelligent or on topic to add, please don't add anything at all :)

Also, this isn't about what we wanted from the campaign of Halo Reach, it's about issues with the novel, with attention paid to contradictions withing the game [not be confused with Privet Caboose's thread]

So others can bash Reach and praise the book, but I can't bash the book without flaming others? Wow. The book sucked in my opinion and it barely counts with new novels and media contradicting it.



[Edited on 05.29.2011 11:07 PM PDT]

  • 05.29.2011 10:55 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

So others can bash Reach and praise the book, but I can't bash the book without flaming others? Wow. The book sucked in my opinion and it barely counts with new novels and media contradicting it.


Please be mature about this. The same rules apply to everyone, regardless of their opinion or stance. If you can stay on topic, I would appreciate it, if you can't, ignore this thread and move on :)

  • 05.29.2011 10:55 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: spartan120
Please be mature about this. The same rules apply to everyone, regardless of their opinion or stance. If you can stay on topic, I would appreciate it, if you can't, ignore this thread and move on :)

Considering TFoR's introduction of the Elites and Hunters is now wrong and the Covenant invaded Reach earlier than the 30th, it doesn't really count anymore.

  • 05.29.2011 10:57 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120

That's still off topic, and a somewhat immature stance ^-^
You nearly had it too.

The introduction of the Elites and Hunters in the books actually aids in the threat of the Covenant. It makes them more Alien, and more threatening.

Keep in mind that the book introduces them as a main force element, not that human encounters with the Elites were nill up to that point :)

The fact that Hunters first appear in 2552 is the main issue, and something you should be able to overlook, given that you expect fans of the books to do the same in regards to Halo Reach :)

  • 05.29.2011 11:03 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: spartan120
Please be mature about this. The same rules apply to everyone, regardless of their opinion or stance. If you can stay on topic, I would appreciate it, if you can't, ignore this thread and move on :)

Considering TFoR's introduction of the Elites and Hunters is now wrong and the Covenant invaded Reach earlier than the 30th, it doesn't really count anymore.


The date those enemies were encountered was retconned in 2006, with Ghosts of Oynx. Don't bother bringing that up anymore. It hardly makes the book "not count."

And I can say "Reach doesn't count," because new canon trumps old canon. And guess what? The 2011 version of The Fall of Reach follows the old book and not the game. Guess that means Reach is obsolete.

  • 05.29.2011 11:03 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: spartan120
Please be mature about this. The same rules apply to everyone, regardless of their opinion or stance. If you can stay on topic, I would appreciate it, if you can't, ignore this thread and move on :)

Considering TFoR's introduction of the Elites and Hunters is now wrong and the Covenant invaded Reach earlier than the 30th, it doesn't really count anymore.


The date those enemies were encountered was retconned in 2006, with Ghosts of Oynx. Don't bother bringing that up anymore. It hardly makes the book "not count."

And I can say "Reach doesn't count," because new canon trumps old canon. And guess what? The 2011 version of The Fall of Reach follows the old book and not the game. Guess that means Reach is obsolete.

I still think games override books, unless 343 follows a new system.

  • 05.29.2011 11:06 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: spartan120
That's still off topic, and a somewhat immature stance ^-^
You nearly had it too.


What a crock of -blam!-.

  • 05.29.2011 11:06 PM PDT
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"Awesomeness will ensue..."

BEN SPARTAN120


privet caboose

While I can appreciate your passion Caboose, try not to use language that incites aggression :)

Keep it clean everyone :)

  • 05.29.2011 11:06 PM PDT

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: spartan120
Please be mature about this. The same rules apply to everyone, regardless of their opinion or stance. If you can stay on topic, I would appreciate it, if you can't, ignore this thread and move on :)

Considering TFoR's introduction of the Elites and Hunters is now wrong and the Covenant invaded Reach earlier than the 30th, it doesn't really count anymore.


The date those enemies were encountered was retconned in 2006, with Ghosts of Oynx. Don't bother bringing that up anymore. It hardly makes the book "not count."

And I can say "Reach doesn't count," because new canon trumps old canon. And guess what? The 2011 version of The Fall of Reach follows the old book and not the game. Guess that means Reach is obsolete.

Keep spiting bull -blam!- caboose.

  • 05.29.2011 11:06 PM PDT

The game and the book fit FINE.

  • 05.29.2011 11:08 PM PDT

If I don't believe in him...



why should he believe in me?

well this thread went down the toilet faster than you can say, "New canon deligitimizes old canon."

  • 05.29.2011 11:09 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: MC LOL88
well this thread went down the toilet faster than you can say, "New canon deligitimizes old canon."

But does it still work that way if the games still outrank the books? 343 should really verify that.

  • 05.29.2011 11:10 PM PDT

Posted by: Docterweegee
The game and the book fit FINE.

I'm still waiting to know how.

  • 05.29.2011 11:38 PM PDT

Posted by: wswartzendruber
Posted by: Docterweegee
The game and the book fit FINE.

I'm still waiting to know how.

Still wondering how it does not


(yes I read all of the BS threads on how It does not.)

  • 05.29.2011 11:42 PM PDT

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