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Subject: MARATHON is the next HALO game

Throughout the Marathon series, the character portrayed by the player is known only as the Security Officer or the Cyborg. A two-meter tall cyborg sporting green, vacuum-enabled battle armor, he never speaks in-game. The Marine's superhuman prowess originates from his transformation into a MJOLNIR battleroid centuries before, but depite having undergone this process, he looks quite normal among other humans.
At the start of Marathon, he appears to believe that he is merely a human, although clearly a talented, dangerous and powerful one. However, persistent references to "nine MJOLNIR Mark IV cyborgs" throughout the game has led many fans to believe that the Cyborg is in fact the tenth member of this group. However, the cyborg himself does not come to realize this until Marathon Infinity, when he starts having surreal flashbacks, trips into his own mind, and spontaneous, bizarre dreams as a side-effect of Jjaro technology employed in his cybernetic enhancements.

It has been speculated, probably incorrectly, that the Cyborg's mind is that of an AI in a human's body (though during one point in Marathon Infinity, the player does very likely upload Durandal's core matrix into his own brain before merging it with Thoth). In Infinity, he seems to be undergoing a sort of rampancy. (The three chapters of Infinity are called Despair, Rage, and Envy, which parallel the three documented stages of rampancy -- Melancholy, Anger and Jealousy.) Since rampancy is defined as "an artificial intelligence's coming to realize that it is not real," this may show that the player is not, in fact, human. Alternately, it may symbolize the entirely human Marine wresting control of his own destiny from the AIs that he has been serving for the last three games, and unlocking mastery over the latent powers of the Jjaro cybernetics that were integrated into him so long ago.


The Cyborg Security Officer (M2)
Added by Polygoncount
The Cyborg's mind and personality are mostly left up to the player to speculate on. Although Durandal describes him as "a magnificent killing machine" and asks him if being allowed to kill more Pfhor will "make you happy," the AI is more likely being malicious than accurate. While the Cyborg does not seem to be a mindless psychopath, he is clearly comfortable enduring and quite capable of carrying out violent acts on a scale unimaginable to any normal person. However, in the third game of the series, he seems to lose any sense of morality he may previously have possessed, working for the indisputably evil Tycho and killing BOBs on Tycho's orders in a desperate attempt to keep the W'rkncacnter trapped in Lh'owon's sun. In Infinity, we are given greater access to his mind and feelings. He seems to recognize some sort of guilt or weariness for the atrocities he has committed, and appears to believe that he has been forced to do what he has done. Ironically, this seems accurate. All three games consist chiefly of doing what various people tell him to do - only once does he act of his own initiative, and this is in the Marathon manual, which is not an entirely reliable source.

  • 05.30.2011 8:48 AM PDT

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

No. Marathon =/= Halo

/thread

  • 05.30.2011 8:51 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Marathon universe =/= Halo universe it has been stated by Bungie before.

  • 05.30.2011 8:51 AM PDT

yeah they just have the same armor n stuff..... the yeas & timeline add up... yeah your right, TROLL

  • 05.30.2011 8:53 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

While there may be some references from Marathon in Halo (Rocket Launcher and the likes) they are just that, references.

  • 05.30.2011 8:55 AM PDT

its all the same with different names

  • 05.30.2011 8:57 AM PDT

Your world ends with 57


Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Marathon universe =/= Halo universe it has been stated by Bungie before.

  • 05.30.2011 9:00 AM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."

Just because it's similar doesn't make it the same. We have a game from Bungie called ONI. Halo's top organization is ONI, does that make ONI the next Halo? No.

  • 05.30.2011 9:06 AM PDT

PEANUT-BUTTER SLAP!

Posted by: MARATH0N MAN
yeah they just have the same armor n stuff..... the yeas & timeline add up... yeah your right, TROLL
No trolls here, just you being stubborn.

  • 05.30.2011 9:11 AM PDT

The next Bungie game might be a Marathon, but not the next Halo.
The main reason is that Bungie owns the rights to Marathon and Microsoft now owns Halo. Plus 343 is now creating the next Halo without Bungie.
Marathon was the inspiration for Halo, and they give it a nod every now and then in the game.

  • 05.30.2011 9:12 AM PDT

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Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Just because it's similar doesn't make it the same. We have a game from Bungie called ONI. Halo's top organization is ONI, does that make ONI the next Halo? No.
Game is Oni, not ONI. ONI is an acronym for Office of Naval Intelligence and Oni is just Oni.

  • 05.30.2011 9:14 AM PDT


Posted by: Switchfoot4
Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Just because it's similar doesn't make it the same. We have a game from Bungie called ONI. Halo's top organization is ONI, does that make ONI the next Halo? No.
Game is Oni, not ONI. ONI is an acronym for Office of Naval Intelligence and Oni is just Oni.


its not oni its oni.....???? Its still a valid connection and I highly doubt it was just a coincidence.

  • 05.30.2011 9:26 AM PDT
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Don't see how this is the next Halo game. Been a while so my knowledge of Marathon is rusty, but I thought it fit more as the story prior to the Halo series. One reason being the armor in Marathon is Mark IV while the Chief wears Mark V and eventually Mark VI. That there is some relationship between the two is nothing new, but you've written nothing to explain how it's the next in the series.

  • 05.30.2011 9:27 AM PDT

Bungie has stated thet Marathon and Halo are two seperate universes.

They are not related!

The stuff you see in Halo that is related to Marathon or Oni are little easter eggs for the fans, NOTHING more.

  • 05.30.2011 9:34 AM PDT

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Posted by: Mellon 051
its not oni its oni.....???? Its still a valid connection and I highly doubt it was just a coincidence.


The game is called Oni. The game is not called ONI. It's one of the most common misunderstandings of Oni that I see happen all the time. ONI is an acronym for Office of Naval Intellegence, which is secret division of the UNSC in the Halo fiction. Oni is a game that was released in 2001 made by Bungie. The term Oni is a Japanese word for "ghost".

Just like Halo is called Halo and not HALO (High Altitude Low Opening).

I'm not saying it's a coincidence, I'm just clearly stating that Oni, the game, has nothing to do with the fiction of ONI.

[Edited on 05.30.2011 1:24 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2011 10:49 AM PDT

Ach! Was ist los?

(Cries.)

  • 05.30.2011 11:22 AM PDT


Posted by: Switchfoot4
Posted by: Mellon 051
its not oni its oni.....???? Its still a valid connection and I highly doubt it was just a coincidence.


The game is called Oni. The game is not called ONI. It's one of the most common misunderstandings of Oni that I see happen all the time. ONI is an acronym for Office of Naval Intellegence, which is secret division of the UNSC in the Halo fiction. Oni is a game that was released in 2001 made by Bungie. The term Oni is a Japanese word for "ghost".

Just like Halo is called Halo and not HALO (High Altitude Low Opening).

I'm not saying it's not a coincidence, I'm just clearly stating that Oni, the game, has nothing to do with the fiction of ONI.


But thats the point, its in Halo but its not connected

  • 05.30.2011 11:30 AM PDT

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Posted by: Mellon 051
But thats the point, its in Halo but its not connected
You are still missing my point.

He called the game ONI. The game is not called ONI. The game is called Oni.

  • 05.30.2011 11:52 AM PDT


Posted by: Switchfoot4
Posted by: Mellon 051
its not oni its oni.....???? Its still a valid connection and I highly doubt it was just a coincidence.


The game is called Oni. The game is not called ONI. It's one of the most common misunderstandings of Oni that I see happen all the time. ONI is an acronym for Office of Naval Intellegence, which is secret division of the UNSC in the Halo fiction. Oni is a game that was released in 2001 made by Bungie. The term Oni is a Japanese word for "ghost".


And how are ONI members called?

Yup: Spooks is among the most common.

Also: Halo and Marathon aren't the same. Sure they share some common elements but its just Bungie placing references all over the games.
Oni had a Plasma Rifle, does that mean Oni and Halo are connected too?

Last: Oni isn't spelled the same as ONI. And sure: ONI has a nice meaning behind it. But it is absolutely no coincidence that Bungie named ONI, ONI. Again: reference to their previous games, change it with some capital letters and add a meaning behind it.

[Edited on 05.30.2011 12:51 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2011 12:49 PM PDT

"Concise and devoid of elegance...what I have come to expect from human communication"-Endless Summer

Halo and Marathon do not and cannot coexist in the same universe

  • 05.30.2011 12:49 PM PDT

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

Posted by: RKOSNAKE
Marathon universe =/= Halo universe it has been stated by Bungie before.

Who knows what happens when a portal collapses and what happens with the matter that's still in the 'twilight zone'?

I know it's far fetched but I think that it's possible that MC traveled inter-dimensional when he was in the forerunners portal.

But hey, it's not like Bungie will be beating a dead horse when they have a completely new franchise with unimaginative possibilities.

  • 05.30.2011 1:07 PM PDT

Join the Bungie Kids Podcast Group!

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When I grow up, I want to be just like goofenhour.

Posted by: DonVinzone1
And how are ONI members called?

Yup: Spooks is among the most common.
I don't know what you are talking about. I'm not that immersed into the Halo books.

Also: Halo and Marathon aren't the same. Sure they share some common elements but its just Bungie placing references all over the games.I agree completely.

Oni had a Plasma Rifle, does that mean Oni and Halo are connected too?Nope, not connected whatsoever.

Last: Oni isn't spelled the same as ONI. And sure: ONI has a nice meaning behind it. But it is absolutely no coincidence that Bungie named ONI, ONI. Again: reference to their previous games, change it with some capital letters and add a meaning behind it.
I'm not saying it is a coincidence.
Posted by: Switchfoot4
I'm not saying it's a coincidence, I'm just clearly stating that Oni, the game, has nothing to do with the fiction of ONI.


[Edited on 05.30.2011 1:24 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2011 1:21 PM PDT
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Halo and Marthon aren't the same. I figured this out years ago just by doing a few minutes research into both series' backstory. They don't add up.

Of course theres the references of Marathon in Halo, but they are just that, references. You often see this when a developer does different series. They like to make homages to their earlier works.

  • 05.30.2011 1:37 PM PDT

First of all, I commend you for your insightful description of the Security Officer (SO) throughout the Marathon series. However nothing you have posted implies any connection between Marathon and Halo or indicates that "Marathon is the next Halo game".

Posted by: MARATH0N MAN
Throughout the Marathon series, the character portrayed by the player is known only as the Security Officer or the Cyborg... However, persistent references to "nine MJOLNIR Mark IV cyborgs" throughout the game has led many fans to believe that the Cyborg is in fact the tenth member of this group. However, the cyborg himself does not come to realize this until Marathon Infinity...
I disagree. It is very likely that the SO at least suspects, if not completely accepts that he is a cyborg near the end of Marathon 1 or during Marathon 2.

+ From the Marathon manual text, the SO knows that he has always been bigger, stronger, and the best shot.
+ By the end of Marathon 1 he knows that 10 cyborgs were brought on the Marathon, but only 9 were accounted for.

In Marathon 2, both Durandal and Tycho essentially tell him directly that he is a cyborg:
+ On What About Bob?, Durandal says "Because only you would survive the fall..."
+ On Nuke and Pave, Durandal says, "Berhnard was scared of you. He never dreamed of using you the way that I do."
+ On Sorry Don't Make it So Tycho says, "When the Pfhor annihilated Tau Ceti I recorded the deaths of all twenty-four thousand colonists as distinguishable spectrographic pulses flooding over my sensors. The nine Mjolnir Mark IV cyborgs were easily separable from the humans in this form. In the end, you will be no better."
+ On Requiem for a Cyborg the secret terminal has four want adds (one each from Durandal, Tycho, Leela, and Thoth), all of which are seeking a cyborg.

So the security officer is aware of the likelihood that he is a cyborg well before the beginning of Marathon Infinity.

Alternately, [the stages of rampancy used as chapter titles in Marathon Infinity] may symbolize the entirely human Marine wresting control of his own destiny from the AIs that he has been serving for the last three games, and unlocking mastery over the latent powers of the Jjaro cybernetics that were integrated into him so long ago.I agree with the general idea that naming the chapter titles after stages of rampancy is symbolic of the SO's trials and struggles in learning to master his Jjaro implants. In finally mastering his implants, he transcends both simple humans and all other cyborgs. He becomes "Destiny". I do not believe that the SO has an AI brain which literally goes rampant or that he is "entirely human".

The Cyborg Security Officer (M2)
Added by Polygoncount
The Cyborg's mind and personality are mostly left up to the player to speculate on. Although Durandal describes him as "a magnificent killing machine" and asks him if being allowed to kill more Pfhor will "make you happy," the AI is more likely being malicious than accurate. While the Cyborg does not seem to be a mindless psychopath, he is clearly comfortable enduring and quite capable of carrying out violent acts on a scale unimaginable to any normal person. However, in the third game of the series, he seems to lose any sense of morality he may previously have possessed, working for the indisputably evil Tycho and killing BOBs on Tycho's orders in a desperate attempt to keep the W'rkncacnter trapped in Lh'owon's sun. In Infinity, we are given greater access to his mind and feelings. He seems to recognize some sort of guilt or weariness for the atrocities he has committed, and appears to believe that he has been forced to do what he has done. Ironically, this seems accurate. All three games consist chiefly of doing what various people tell him to do - only once does he act of his own initiative, and this is in the Marathon manual, which is not an entirely reliable source.
I disagree with much of this interpretation. It seems to contradict itself. How can the SO "lose any sense of morality he may previously have possessed" and at the same time "recognize some sort of guilt or weariness for the atrocities he has committed"?

At the beginning of Infinity, the W'rkncacnter in Lh'owon's sun has been released by the Pfhor. The SO uses his Jjaro implants to traverse multiple realities in an attempt to stop the W'rkncacnter's release. He does not kill humans and follow Tycho's orders because he is losing his sense of morality. He is simply trying different options to keep the Pfhor from using the Early Nova. If you would like, I would be happy to go through each reality and discuss the SO's initial plan, what happens, and why all paths fail except for the final one.

The SO does agonize over his destructive actions. However he does not feel that he was forced to do what he has done. Quite the contrary in fact, as on Where are Monsters in Dreams the SO says "I did this, or I could have stopped it. Which is it? It doesn't matter now. I did this and could have stopped it..." He knows that he has destroyed countless lives and wonders if all the devastation he has caused is worth it, not whether or not he was forced to be destructive by some outside influence.

The idea that the SO is nothing more than a tool of destruction to be used by the most immediate manipulator is one of the central themes in Marathon. On numerous occasions he is ridiculed for being easy to control, direct, and use. The list of possible manipulators is long: humanity, Leela, Durandal, Robert Blake, Thoth, Tycho, High Admiral Tfear, and even the Jjaro. In Marathon Infinity, the SO realizes that he must stop simply following the orders of other entities and hoping for the best result. Only by finding his own path and ignoring the directives of others is he able to stop the release of the W'rkncacnter.

The internal conflict between simply following orders and thinking for himself adds depth to the character of the SO and, in my opinion, thoroughly separates him from Halo's Master Chief. Both are similar in that they are essentially bred to be ultimate weapons of destruction and follow orders without question. However the SO is constantly reminded of his violent nature, lack of freedom, and tendency to submit to the commands of others. He feels remorse for his destructive nature and eventually breaks free from his genetically engineered propensity to simply follow orders. The Master Chief never even considers his violent nature and adherence to orders. He is simply a super soldier who always follows orders and doesn't think for himself beyond tactical decisions and current missions. There is no depth or potential for growth in Master Chief.

On a final note, the Marathon manual is absolutely a reliable source. It is canon and can be trusted to be correct in its entirety. To think otherwise is simply incorrect.

Interesting thread.

[Edited on 05.30.2011 1:43 PM PDT]

  • 05.30.2011 1:43 PM PDT

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