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Subject: MARATHON is the next HALO game

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

Posted by: Sardonic13
If you would like, I would be happy to go through each reality and discuss the SO's initial plan, what happens, and why all paths fail except for the final one.

Could you please elaborate why the SO was helping Tycho in 'One thousand thousand slimy things'. How is killing humans and helping Tycho regain control helps the him?


the long sleep ends

your construct

bethought itself higher

awaiting far beneath

my fate was written

And wouldn't this mean that the SO didn't have a choice and was meant to prevent the release of the W'rkncacnter?

  • 05.30.2011 3:58 PM PDT


Posted by: H0FFman J
Could you please elaborate why the SO was helping Tycho in 'One thousand thousand slimy things'. How is killing humans and helping Tycho regain control helps the him?
While the initial terminal screen says Tycho, the message on One Thousand Thousand Slimy Things actually comes from High Admiral Tfear (note that the top of the first page of the terminal says "origin: High Admiral Tfear").

In this reality (By Committee - Aye Mak Sicur), the SO successfully disabled Durandal and was captured by the Pfhor. Tycho was also imprisoned by the Pfhor because he was using the Pfhor network and ships to further his own agendas. The humans have not yet activated Thoth and called the S'pht'Kr back to Lh'owon. The SO is still carrying Durandal's primal pattern (obtained on Hang Brain) inside his head.

The SO is able to escape from his prison cell on By Committee, but he is still held captive by High Admiral Tfear. Note that neither red text nor Tycho's symbol automatically mean the message is from Tycho. Tycho's messages in the chapter have the origin obsolete identification or upset tycho. Messages from Tfear have the origin High Admiral Tfear (Command).

For some unknown reason, rather than kill the SO outright Tfear sends him on a series of suicide missions leading the assault force which will crush the remains of the human resistance. Mission directives on One thousand thousand slimy things and A converted church in Venice, Italy come from Tfear. After completing the objective of A converted church in Venice, Italy Tfear plans to send the SO to Gr'ndl Prime for reconditioning. However, before Tfear can teleport the SO out, a partially activated Thoth steals the SO and teleports him to Son of Grendel.

So the SO wasn't helping Tycho, but rather Tfear. Why was he helping Tfear? I'm not exactly sure. Maybe it was his only choice. Maybe killing the remaining humans before they fully activated Thoth meant that the S'pht'Kr would not return, the Pfhor would not be forced to use the Early Nova, and the W'rkncacnter wouldn't be released. Maybe his implants were telling him that it was necessary to get Durandal close to Thoth.

the long sleep ends
your construct
bethought itself higher
awaiting far beneath
my fate was written

And wouldn't this mean that the SO didn't have a choice and was meant to prevent the release of the W'rkncacnter?
An interesting question to be sure. The entity speaking in the terminal is Thoth. He has recently been partially activated (the long sleep ends). He ridicules Durandal (your construct bethought itself higher). Thoth states that his main memory cores are located deep underground (awaiting far beneath). The line in question (my fate was written) is a bit vague.

Thoth's primary purpose is to recall the S'pht'Kr. He could mean that his eventual recalling of the S'pht'Kr was written before the S'pht'Kr left and he is now about to fulfill the directive of recalling them.

However when the SO fully activates Thoth on Strange Aeons, Durandal and Thoth merge to become one entity. It could have been that the fate Thoth meant was to merge with Durandal. If so, then it could also mean that it was the SO's fate to bring Durandal and Thoth together. This seems unlikely and can't really be substantiated, but it is an interesting idea. Is the SO then simply a pawn of the Jjaro? Did the Jjaro somehow foresee all of the events of Marathon and set a plan in motion long before the age of the Pfhor so that Durandal, Thoth, and the SO would all be at the same place at the right time? Personally I doubt it, but it is interesting to consider.

The SO is "Destiny", not Durandal, Thoth, or even the Jjaro. Does he make the decisions of his own free will, thereby determining his own fate? Or is he a slave to fate and is only able to follow the path that fate has predestined for him? "There is only one path and that is the path that you take, but you can take more than one path." It is one of the primary philosophical questions that Marathon Infinity asks.

However, if I understand the final screen correctly, the SO fits into the "infinite pattern" of various realities, yet the pattern is his "to manipulate, to destroy and rebuild". Through mastery of his Jjaro implants, the SO is able to travel to any reality and time he wishes, recreating or destroying history as he sees fit. During the events of Marathon 1, 2, and the beginning of Infinity the SO didn't have a choice. But by mastering his Jjaro implants, he has an infinite number of choices. In effect, the SO has achieved Durandal's initial goal. He is completely in control of his own fate. He has the ability to escape the closure of the universe. Mastering his Jjaro implants, taking control of his fate, and becoming "Destiny" has made him god.

(And people wonder why I laugh sarcastically when they talk about how great Halo's trite little story is.)

  • 05.30.2011 8:20 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: Sardonic13
[N]othing you have posted implies any connection between Marathon and Halo or indicates that "Marathon is the next Halo game".


Agreed. Sard raises many good point in counter to the OP's speculation. While the Marathon storyline does contain several similar themes and characters, it is wholly separate from the Halo universe. Furthermore, while similarities exist they are far outweighed by the sheer number of Marathon's dissimilar or completely contrary aspects.

Case in point: while the Master Chief is a SPARTAN and could be classified as a sort of cyborg, he is still completely identifiable as a human. He was born to human parents and enlisted (forcibly) into the UNSC as a child. Compare this with the Security Officer's origins as true cyborg, specifically one of the battleroid series. Battleroids were made from dead humans whose corpses were fitted (merged?) with technology at most only partially understood by their creators, leading to them commonly being called one of humanity's deadliest weapons. The Mjolnir Mark V designation of the SO can simply be seen as his battleroid model number.

This is corroborated several times throughout the Marathon series. A terminal on Beware of Low Flying Defense Drones (M1) contains an excerpt of a text on battleroids with commentary from Tycho:


"The UESC president came aboard Marathon and gave a speech. Short, but to the point. He was surrounded by his 'bodyguards'. How ironic. "This, the grandest technological achievement of all of mankind..."
Had he only known that it carried also all of the destructive knowledge of mankind. Ten cyborgs.


This shortly follows a separate entry from Bernard Strauss on the same level:
Dead soldiers were recycled in makeshift battleroid factories. Easy to manufacture chips enhanced the fragile human brain, and genetically enhanced muscles and titanium bones replaced the fragile human form. The modern battleroid was born.

The final screen from Marathon even leaves us a tantalizing tidbit to this very end:

They were the only human survivors of the original Tau Ceti colony.

Durandal begins to imply the SO's status as a battleroid in a terminal on What About Bob?! (M2):

Were you ever curious about the tenth cyborg which was supposed to be on the Marathon? Why could Leela find only nine? Was it ever activated? Was it destroyed during the defense of the colony? You are right to be curious.

Tycho's personal on Requiem for a Cyborg's (M2) hidden terminal teases this out a little more:

GOD'S GIFT TO NEURAL NETS. Traitorous extremely-rampant reprogrammed human AI with no sense of humor seeks elusive, heroic cyborg of uncertain manufacture (you know who you are) for mindgames and long walks in hard vacuum.

Finally, the closing screen in Marathon Infinity explicity confirms the SO is a battleroid:

But you were dead a thousand times. Hopeless encounters successfully won. A man long dead, grafted to machines your builders did not understand.

In concert with other terminal entries hinting at the SO's cybrog origin, it further proven he is on battleroid make. No other cyborg soldiers existed in the Marathon universe. The very nature of these soldiers is completely at odds to Halo's SPARTANS and any attempt to link the two simply shows a lack of understanding of the Marathon canon.

  • 05.30.2011 9:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

First I wondered why did that text sound so familiar then I realized that it was a straight quote from Pfhorpedia. You even copied the caption from one of the pictures. This would have been completely alright if you had used quotation marks and gave us the source, but instead you gave this to us like it was all your own writing. Shame on you sir. I have seen many jerks and idiots on these forums but never a plagiarist. That's just so low.

On topic: No, it has been said multiple times. There are lots of Marathon references in Halo but they do not take place in the same universe.

  • 05.30.2011 10:19 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: tsassi2
First I wondered why did that text sound so familiar then I realized that it was a straight quote from Pfhorpedia. You even copied the caption from one of the pictures.


If you are trying to point a finger at myself or Sard, don't.

I reviewed the page you linked and there is no "straight quote" pulled from Pfhorpedia in either of our posts. We do reference the same terminals, but those are from the games themselves. Believe it or not, but discussion of the Marathon plot has gone on for a lot longer than anybody here likely remembers and the knowledge that the SO is a cyborg, and a battleroid at that, is old-hat among the older Marathon fans. In short, nothing was plagiarized; don't make baseless accusations especially when you only have your Google search result(s) to rely on.

[Edited on 05.31.2011 2:05 AM PDT]

  • 05.31.2011 2:00 AM PDT


Posted by: tsassi2
First I wondered why did that text sound so familiar then I realized that it was a straight quote from Pfhorpedia. You even copied the caption from one of the pictures. This would have been completely alright if you had used quotation marks and gave us the source, but instead you gave this to us like it was all your own writing. Shame on you sir. I have seen many jerks and idiots on these forums but never a plagiarist. That's just so low.
What? Who are you even talking to? Placid and I cited our quotes and no one else directly quoted Marathon to the point of needing citing. Not only that, but it is only plagiarism if we are declaring the ideas to be our own creation, which neither of us are.

And Pfhorpedia? There is only one online source for information on the Marathon Story: The Marathon Story Page. Pfhorpedia, no offense to its creators, is a joke by comparison. Case in point. According to the Phorpedia page, the Gheritt White term is "irrelevant to the problem at hand." The Gheritt White white term is irrelevant? Really?

On topic: No, it has been said multiple times. There are lots of Marathon references in Halo but they do not take place in the same universe.Many of us know that, but rarely go beyond stating the simple fact. Very few people actually bother to list any of the contradictions or discuss them in further detail.

  • 05.31.2011 4:15 AM PDT

______________(__||____||__)___|_
|-------------.===.-.~,~~:_____:______|================[_]=
|_______/___/_/```-------|___|

BeSt GuN iN hAlO: dA sNiPzZ

They should make a halo 4 idk Master chief needs to get found the cliffhanger must be fufilled!!!!

  • 05.31.2011 4:39 AM PDT

Do you know what kind of hat I'm wearing?

A party hat; you don't get one. An honor will this party be, a party in your honor, for your honor. Some of Tfear's personal guards are going to be there. You'll be introduced shortly.

Prepare to die.

Posted by: Sardonic13

So the SO wasn't helping Tycho, but rather Tfear.


Oh, I should pay more attention to 'Origin:' I always assumed it was Tycho since the opening screens of the terminals start with his name and logo.

  • 05.31.2011 5:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Sardonic13

Posted by: tsassi2
First I wondered why did that text sound so familiar then I realized that it was a straight quote from Pfhorpedia. You even copied the caption from one of the pictures. This would have been completely alright if you had used quotation marks and gave us the source, but instead you gave this to us like it was all your own writing. Shame on you sir. I have seen many jerks and idiots on these forums but never a plagiarist. That's just so low.
What? Who are you even talking to? Placid and I cited our quotes and no one else directly quoted Marathon to the point of needing citing. Not only that, but it is only plagiarism if we are declaring the ideas to be our own creation, which neither of us are.

And Pfhorpedia? There is only one online source for information on the Marathon Story: The Marathon Story Page. Pfhorpedia, no offense to its creators, is a joke by comparison. Case in point. According to the Phorpedia page, the Gheritt White term is "irrelevant to the problem at hand." The Gheritt White white term is irrelevant? Really?

On topic: No, it has been said multiple times. There are lots of Marathon references in Halo but they do not take place in the same universe.Many of us know that, but rarely go beyond stating the simple fact. Very few people actually bother to list any of the contradictions or discuss them in further detail.

I mean neither you nor Placid. I spoke to OP. His text is a direct quote from Phforpedia. The text wasn't between quotation marks and there was no source to the text, it isn't exactly a plagiat as the creators of Phforpedia didn't invent Marathon but plagiat is the closest term I could come up with. I think the reliablity of Phforpedia is irrelevant in this case but concerning OP, I would assume it would be fair for the writers of that exact article to be given the honor for writing it and not OP, who only copied and then pasted the text.

Sard, you said "First of all, I commend you for your insightful description of the Security Officer (SO) throughout the Marathon series", but you said that to OP and not to the writer of the article. You commended someone who had done nothing but copied something written by another person.

Again, I repeat. This isn't about quoting Marathon but an article of phforpedia. I also am not one of the writers of that article but I know who should be commended and who shouldn't be.

I apologize for this incident. I just don't like people who take something another person has made and are like it was their own. I also apologize for the the confusion, this had nothing to do with Sard or Placid.

[Edited on 05.31.2011 5:27 AM PDT]

  • 05.31.2011 5:18 AM PDT

Posted by: tsassi2
I mean neither you nor Placid. I spoke to OP. His text is a direct quote from Phforpedia.
My apologies tsassi2. I see what you mean now. Should have seen it before. Upon further reflection, it makes sense considering the unrelated thread title and the fact that few new people know enough to come up with Marathon theories like that on their own. I did think it was odd that your comments would be directed at me or Placid, since you're one of the few people in the Underground lately who seems to have an interest in and a good understanding of the Marathon Universe. An oversight on my part, likely due to an overzealous desire to discuss the Marathon story in detail.

I wouldn't mind getting back to some good Marathon discussion though. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on the SO.

[Edited on 05.31.2011 6:42 PM PDT]

  • 05.31.2011 6:38 PM PDT

For Carnage Apply Within - Fatum Iustum Stultorum

"Do not mistake your rank and number for superiority. The oldest child may learn from the youngest."

Posted by: tsassi2
I mean neither you nor Placid.


Apologies for the misunderstanding, though hopefully this serves as an example as to why quoting whoever you are responding to is a good idea.

  • 05.31.2011 8:04 PM PDT

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