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Subject: Question about MAC yield
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
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I seriously have always heard the Terra+ messurements be used for high explosive yields, be them articles about cosmic events, books, dictionaries, videogames, encyclopedia, etc..

They have two different meanings.

Ah yes, Wikipedia. Always saving my ass. Thanks, I've honestly never heard any of these used before. If anything went over one gigaton, I was always told to use terms like "2,000 gigatons" which had always made me wonder why there was nothing bigger. Thank you.

  • 06.01.2011 4:16 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

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Now you question about MAC yield, my curiosity suddenly appeared.

Well since Frigate's Standard MAC is 64 kilotons right?

Then what about Destroyers, Cruisers, Carriers and Super Carriers? There is possible for that variants of MACs to exist? Like light variant where Pillar of Autumn had one? What about Heavy variant that probably fires heavier slug, with slower charge? How you can estimate different MAC yields for variants?

  • 06.01.2011 4:38 PM PDT

Depends...Are you talking of those on Reach or Halo 2 because they are different in terms of firepower.

Keep in mind that as of Halo Reach the Firepower figures for things like MAC guns have dropped considerably, shipboard MAC guns are now only 1.19 megatons per shot (they used to be 1.17 teratons) while Orbital Defense MAC guns are 51.6 gigatons per shot (they used to be 9.98 Teratons), and those can punch through 2 covenant ships and cripple a third.

Halo 2 figures for SMAC - 9.98 Teratons
Reach figures for SMAC - 51.6 Gigatons

Halo 2 figures for MAC - 1.17 Teratons
Reach figures for MAC - 1.19 Megatons

Took a while to find all those terminals.

[Edited on 06.01.2011 6:03 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2011 4:38 PM PDT
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Nate Cleaves

If earth's SMACs had that much firepower, then no only could they nutrilize life on planets, but possibly run through like 15 ships. one terraton is equivilant to a extiction level astroid.

  • 06.01.2011 5:47 PM PDT

I could see a SMAC having the power of 1.17 terratons, considering how they can destroy all targets with a single hit, and retain power to strike other targets, as stated in the books.

[Edited on 06.01.2011 6:00 PM PDT]

  • 06.01.2011 5:59 PM PDT

Posted by: Super EC Nate
If earth's SMACs had that much firepower, then no only could they nutrilize life on planets, but possibly run through like 15 ships. one terraton is equivilant to a extiction level astroid.


Thus why they were nerfed on Reach...Considerably.

  • 06.01.2011 6:03 PM PDT

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Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Super EC Nate
If earth's SMACs had that much firepower, then no only could they nutrilize life on planets, but possibly run through like 15 ships. one terraton is equivilant to a extiction level astroid.


Thus why they were nerfed on Reach...Considerably.

Halo Wars.

Low powered.

  • 06.01.2011 6:12 PM PDT

Posted by: Spartan 100

Posted by: mojeda101
Posted by: Super EC Nate
If earth's SMACs had that much firepower, then no only could they nutrilize life on planets, but possibly run through like 15 ships. one terraton is equivilant to a extiction level astroid.


Thus why they were nerfed on Reach...Considerably.

Halo Wars.

Low powered.


Ship based MAC's are different from SMAC's considerably, just look at my stats in my earlier post.

  • 06.01.2011 6:27 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: mojeda101
Depends...Are you talking of those on Reach or Halo 2 because they are different in terms of firepower.

Keep in mind that as of Halo Reach the Firepower figures for things like MAC guns have dropped considerably, shipboard MAC guns are now only 1.19 megatons per shot (they used to be 1.17 teratons) while Orbital Defense MAC guns are 51.6 gigatons per shot (they used to be 9.98 Teratons), and those can punch through 2 covenant ships and cripple a third.

Halo 2 figures for SMAC - 9.98 Teratons
Reach figures for SMAC - 51.6 Gigatons

Halo 2 figures for MAC - 1.17 Teratons
Reach figures for MAC - 1.19 Megatons

Took a while to find all those terminals.

Where are you getting these figures from?

  • 06.01.2011 6:36 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

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Posted by: mojeda101
Depends...Are you talking of those on Reach or Halo 2 because they are different in terms of firepower.

Keep in mind that as of Halo Reach the Firepower figures for things like MAC guns have dropped considerably, shipboard MAC guns are now only 1.19 megatons per shot (they used to be 1.17 teratons) while Orbital Defense MAC guns are 51.6 gigatons per shot (they used to be 9.98 Teratons), and those can punch through 2 covenant ships and cripple a third.

Halo 2 figures for SMAC - 9.98 Teratons
Reach figures for SMAC - 51.6 Gigatons

Halo 2 figures for MAC - 1.17 Teratons
Reach figures for MAC - 1.19 Megatons

Took a while to find all those terminals.


Whoa, 1.17 teraton is equivalent to extinction-class asteroid... If those UNSC ships had that sheer firepower, it'd won the Human-Covenant War easily in couple of years, due to overwhelming firepower. 1.17 teraton from 600 ton slug is instant death for any covenant ships. It can be labeled as Super Macs.

However, It's appropriate to have 64 kiloton on standard MACs and 51.6 gigatons on Super MACs, since it makes sense.

Nobody answered my question, although... I bought up pretty interesting curiosity on varieties of MAC yield on variants? Like heavy slug or stronger mac on different ships? I doubt that standard MACs were issued to every destroyers, cruisers, carriers, and supercarrers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, although.

  • 06.01.2011 7:03 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Posted by: wildnuke
If a standard MAC yeild was 1.17 teratons then humanity would've had no problem with the war

Or the Covenant were just that bat[REDACTED] powerful.

Personally, I take it as Star Wars wank. 343i is butchering Halo. They made the Forerunners into a more technologically advanced version of the Imperium. YEAH.

  • 06.01.2011 9:06 PM PDT
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Yes I'm fairly young. No, that doesn't mean I'm automatically dumber than you or have less life experience, thats just generally the case. I am not your general case.

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: wildnuke
If a standard MAC yeild was 1.17 teratons then humanity would've had no problem with the war

Or the Covenant were just that bat[REDACTED] powerful.

Personally, I take it as Star Wars wank. 343i is butchering Halo. They made the Forerunners into a more technologically advanced version of the Imperium. YEAH.

Hey hey hey. Hold it right there. Are you insulting Cryptum?

*CRACKS KNUCKLES*

  • 06.01.2011 9:52 PM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: mojeda101
Depends...Are you talking of those on Reach or Halo 2 because they are different in terms of firepower.

Keep in mind that as of Halo Reach the Firepower figures for things like MAC guns have dropped considerably, shipboard MAC guns are now only 1.19 megatons per shot (they used to be 1.17 teratons) while Orbital Defense MAC guns are 51.6 gigatons per shot (they used to be 9.98 Teratons), and those can punch through 2 covenant ships and cripple a third.

Halo 2 figures for SMAC - 9.98 Teratons
Reach figures for SMAC - 51.6 Gigatons

Halo 2 figures for MAC - 1.17 Teratons
Reach figures for MAC - 1.19 Megatons

Took a while to find all those terminals.

Where are you getting these figures from?

Halopedia and Halo Wiki cites the sources of the older figures to be from the Halo books, don't know which one though but there has been quite a bit of debate over it all. The newer figures are from Reach itself according to my sources of people who have played the game and read the various logs you find in the game.

  • 06.01.2011 10:26 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

Posted by: That Atheist
Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Posted by: wildnuke
If a standard MAC yeild was 1.17 teratons then humanity would've had no problem with the war

Or the Covenant were just that bat[REDACTED] powerful.

Personally, I take it as Star Wars wank. 343i is butchering Halo. They made the Forerunners into a more technologically advanced version of the Imperium. YEAH.

Hey hey hey. Hold it right there. Are you insulting Cryptum?

*CRACKS KNUCKLES*

Just what the Forerunners' bearing has become. The Mantle? Bull. They've become a race of [REDACTED], wiping out/wrecking any other civilization they come into contact with.
Humanity? Devolved into animals and left with one world, no technology, and the Forerunners come to Erde-Tyrene as a zoo trip.
Precursors? Wiped out, which is the biggest amount of bull I've ever seen in Halo.

I like the book for how far it throws the Forerunners up the sci-fi tech tree, they're now equal to the Culture! Only baryonic/non ascended race greater than them is the Xeelee/Time Lords... and even then only thing the Time Lords have over them is temporal control. And the Reality Bomb.

  • 06.02.2011 12:33 AM PDT

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?


Posted by: raganok99
Nobody answered my question, although... I bought up pretty interesting curiosity on varieties of MAC yield on variants? Like heavy slug or stronger mac on different ships? I doubt that standard MACs were issued to every destroyers, cruisers, carriers, and supercarrers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, although.


Didn't the PoA have smaller MAC rounds that allowed it to fire several in one salvo ?

You would think a bigger ship = bigger gun = bigger round, but it doesn't always work that way as the bigger gun/ammo would require bigger reactors, storage space etc

Must be hard work designing a ship...

  • 06.02.2011 12:39 AM PDT
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Did you mistake MACs on ships with ODPs?

  • 06.02.2011 12:40 AM PDT

Sup? Welcome to my profile.
Havok Team and I will help bungie dominate the world. and eat cookies

if the MAC gun was that powerfull, they could have easily taken out regrets ship when it flew of the cairo station orbiting earth

  • 06.02.2011 3:55 AM PDT

Sup? Welcome to my profile.
Havok Team and I will help bungie dominate the world. and eat cookies

you know bungie ougtha create there own theory that makes sence on b.net instead off us peicing together what we can find, i mean a SMAC gun with a force of 1.17 Teratons...umm well that will most definetly wipe out life on a large radius of its target, so we could easily take care of the covenant super carriers and all other ships that dare to attack the UNSC, earth and her colonies. so if bungie were to do this, they can make sence of there on game

  • 06.02.2011 4:01 AM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: mojeda101
Depends...Are you talking of those on Reach or Halo 2 because they are different in terms of firepower.

Keep in mind that as of Halo Reach the Firepower figures for things like MAC guns have dropped considerably, shipboard MAC guns are now only 1.19 megatons per shot (they used to be 1.17 teratons) while Orbital Defense MAC guns are 51.6 gigatons per shot (they used to be 9.98 Teratons), and those can punch through 2 covenant ships and cripple a third.

Halo 2 figures for SMAC - 9.98 Teratons
Reach figures for SMAC - 51.6 Gigatons

Halo 2 figures for MAC - 1.17 Teratons
Reach figures for MAC - 1.19 Megatons

Took a while to find all those terminals.


Whoa, 1.17 teraton is equivalent to extinction-class asteroid... If those UNSC ships had that sheer firepower, it'd won the Human-Covenant War easily in couple of years, due to overwhelming firepower. 1.17 teraton from 600 ton slug is instant death for any covenant ships. It can be labeled as Super Macs.

However, It's appropriate to have 64 kiloton on standard MACs and 51.6 gigatons on Super MACs, since it makes sense.

Nobody answered my question, although... I bought up pretty interesting curiosity on varieties of MAC yield on variants? Like heavy slug or stronger mac on different ships? I doubt that standard MACs were issued to every destroyers, cruisers, carriers, and supercarrers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, although.


Some ships had more then one MAC (Destroyers had 2), but it would make sense for ammunition variations to appear. Like the PoA's Shredder MAC. Maybe there's a MAC round packed with explosive ordinance?

Though it is logical to assume, it has never been definitively confirmed. However, the likes of a MAC's power between a UNSC Supercarrier and a Frigate, the SC is definitely more powerful, even if the same ammunition was used.

SC's are a lot longer; a MAC barrel runs the length of the ship. The slug would have more time to reach faster speeds and thusly pack a better punch upon impact.

  • 06.02.2011 5:22 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
Just what the Forerunners' bearing has become. The Mantle? Bull. They've become a race of [REDACTED], wiping out/wrecking any other civilization they come into contact with.
Humanity? Devolved into animals and left with one world, no technology, and the Forerunners come to Erde-Tyrene as a zoo trip.
Precursors? Wiped out, which is the biggest amount of bull I've ever seen in Halo.

I like the book for how far it throws the Forerunners up the sci-fi tech tree, they're now equal to the Culture! Only baryonic/non ascended race greater than them is the Xeelee/Time Lords... and even then only thing the Time Lords have over them is temporal control. And the Reality Bomb.

Hardly. Most of what you mentioned were the actions of select Forerunners, mainly the Didact and Master Builder. As for Precursors, we know almost nothing about them besides their name and one ambiguous quote from a creature we know virtually nothing about. Wait until the second and third books of the Forerunner Saga.

  • 06.02.2011 6:53 AM PDT

the teraton figure is bollocks, don't even understand why this is still being discussed! as said above, that amount of energy is similar to a planet threatening asteroid impact, from a six hundred metric ton projectile, get the blam! out...! a single shot would devastate a Covenant capital ship if that were the case, regardless! think of it this way, if a MAC was that powerful, what would the point in fifty or so megaton thermonuclear missiles, they would be like a gentle breeze in comparison, there is no way, no how that a MAC is that powerful.

  • 06.02.2011 1:46 PM PDT
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Nate Cleaves


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
the teraton figure is bollocks, don't even understand why this is still being discussed! as said above, that amount of energy is similar to a planet threatening asteroid impact, from a six hundred metric ton projectile, get the blam! out...! a single shot would devastate a Covenant capital ship if that were the case, regardless! think of it this way, if a MAC was that powerful, what would the point in fifty or so megaton thermonuclear missiles, they would be like a gentle breeze in comparison, there is no way, no how that a MAC is that powerful.

I agree. If it was that powerful, then they would have shot at New Mambasa instead of sending in more forces. You know they would have done it too(shot their own feeble forces to destroy the armies of covenent).
***END OF DISSCUSSION!***

  • 06.02.2011 1:59 PM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

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Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: mojeda101
Depends...Are you talking of those on Reach or Halo 2 because they are different in terms of firepower.

Keep in mind that as of Halo Reach the Firepower figures for things like MAC guns have dropped considerably, shipboard MAC guns are now only 1.19 megatons per shot (they used to be 1.17 teratons) while Orbital Defense MAC guns are 51.6 gigatons per shot (they used to be 9.98 Teratons), and those can punch through 2 covenant ships and cripple a third.

Halo 2 figures for SMAC - 9.98 Teratons
Reach figures for SMAC - 51.6 Gigatons

Halo 2 figures for MAC - 1.17 Teratons
Reach figures for MAC - 1.19 Megatons

Took a while to find all those terminals.


Whoa, 1.17 teraton is equivalent to extinction-class asteroid... If those UNSC ships had that sheer firepower, it'd won the Human-Covenant War easily in couple of years, due to overwhelming firepower. 1.17 teraton from 600 ton slug is instant death for any covenant ships. It can be labeled as Super Macs.

However, It's appropriate to have 64 kiloton on standard MACs and 51.6 gigatons on Super MACs, since it makes sense.

Nobody answered my question, although... I bought up pretty interesting curiosity on varieties of MAC yield on variants? Like heavy slug or stronger mac on different ships? I doubt that standard MACs were issued to every destroyers, cruisers, carriers, and supercarrers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, although.


Some ships had more then one MAC (Destroyers had 2), but it would make sense for ammunition variations to appear. Like the PoA's Shredder MAC. Maybe there's a MAC round packed with explosive ordinance?

Though it is logical to assume, it has never been definitively confirmed. However, the likes of a MAC's power between a UNSC Supercarrier and a Frigate, the SC is definitely more powerful, even if the same ammunition was used.

SC's are a lot longer; a MAC barrel runs the length of the ship. The slug would have more time to reach faster speeds and thusly pack a better punch upon impact.


Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

Maybe size of ships does have effect on different types of MACs?

For instance, destroyer's size is ranged from 458 meters to 570 meters, is larger than UNSC frigate. I suppose that it had enough room for larger reactor to supply two MACs (standard). Ammunition variants does make sense especially that PoA had 144 ton "shredder" slug with less dense ferrous core and harder outer layer of tungsten carbide. So what if it had 600 ton slug with explosive ordnance such as HEAT (High Explosive Anti-Tank), I know it's anti-tank but it can acted as purpose of causing massive damage to hull. Or it can use KE weapon (Kinetic energy penetration, it can act as penetrating the armor and exploding inside of armor.) Also it can be heavier slug like 750 to 850 tons? Not sure. Various ammunition can have impact on degree of kinetic energy delivered to the object.

Or, large ships such as Cruiser being over 1,000 meters long or carriers (1,500 meters long) and Super-carrier (estimated about 3,000 to 4,000 meters long since it has 10 meters of Titanium-A Battle plate, it would make sense of to have 3k to 4k meters long.) surely have had different variants of MAC like longer barrels, thus increasing speed/velocity and firepower.

  • 06.02.2011 2:11 PM PDT

yeah the standard rule with coil-guns or rail-guns is A) the longer the barrel, the higher the muzzle velocity and B) the more current applied, the higher the muzzle velocity, would assume larger ships can accomplish both of these due to having superior reactors and longer barrel. also, they don't have any explosives in them, they are called 'slugs' not 'shells' which suggests they kill using purely kinetic energy, which makes sense since a 600 ton rounds travelling at 35,000 metres/second imparts a huge amount of energy to whatever it is impacting, any secondary explosion is going to be negligible in comparison, unless its was nuclear triggered by the actual impact with the target, similar to a 'gun' type of fission device.

also the Pillar rounds, or 'shredder' rounds are much less massive than standard rounds, about 1/3 the mass. yet the Autumn is capable of collapsing the shields on a Covenant ship with a single volley from its MAC, three consecutive lightweight shots, where-as it takes several standard MAC rounds to accomplish the same feat, suggesting that its not the energy imparted to the shield by the rounds that caused it to collapse, or at least not entirely. since the lighter rounds would result in much lower energy on target than the more massive one, but has the same effect, so perhaps the shield isn't very good at coping with being hit by fast moving projectiles, regardless of their mass (within reason of course!), either that or its caused by some sort of cumulative effect from numerous rounds hitting in quick succession, something like resonance. think of these weapons being like rifles, a standard MAC round is like a .50 bullet, the Autumn is like an assault rifle firing a three round burst.

another thing worth noting about the Autumns effectiveness in combat might be due to the design of these shredder rounds, maybe the hard Tungsten Carbide outer layer allows it to transfer its energy more effectively, also perhaps could be shaped differently to concentrate more energy on a smaller point, if that was the case then a Destroyer with 'shredder' rounds would be devastating, since it would fire six lighter rounds in quick succession, three of which would collapse the shield and the other three tear into the hull, combined with Archer missiles would equal one well and truly devastated Covenant ship.

another question, if a couple of kiloton MAC rounds can overwhelm the defences of a Covenant ship, does a nuclear missile junk it, assuming it hits the shield directly? or perhaps the nuclear weapon is less effective due to the fact they radiate all their energy equally in a sphere, unless the explosive energy is directed somehow, that is theoretically possible right, to 'shape' a nuclear explosion?

  • 06.03.2011 4:33 AM PDT

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