Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Poll [11 votes]: Do you think that Halo universe needs new setting of canon system?
  • Poll [11 votes]: Do you think that Halo universe needs new setting of canon system?
Subject: Do you think that Halo universe needs new setting of canon system?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

Poll: Do you think that Halo universe needs new setting of canon system?  [closed]
Yes, it needs to be changed!:  36%
(4 Votes)
No, keep old canon system!:  55%
(6 Votes)
Not sure:  9%
(1 Votes)
Total Votes: 11

I have been looking at numerous debates on canon standing in Halo: Reach...

I have been thinking about it, since Halo: Reach came out and first played the campaign and I saw so many errors, in-consistences and some canon-breaking contents/information/activities. You see, many people would use this: "Game canon overrides the book canon." but there's so many problems associated to that such as measuring yield of MAC, size of ships, environments, etc can be affected by limitations of game mechanics caused by game engine. Halo Bible and Books/encyclopedia are only way to appropriately fix it, since they can describe more effectively.

In my opinion, books should be number one in canon, while games being second. Marketing material should remain to be third in canon or not considered as canon. However, halo trilogy plus halo wars because of being pre-sequel to tFoR and halo trilogy (Master Chief series) should be special case for moment.

I kinda wished that Bungie should researched more appropriately, so the canon of halo universe is more properly balanced. I can give a example where it got messed up (in sort of way):

Let's talk about MAC yields, ok? You see, before Reach came out, Earth version and other books claim that standard MAC generates 1.17 teratons and Super MAC generates 9.98 teratons. Now, you see after Reach game was released, it downgraded to 64 kilotons for standard MAC and 51.6 gigatons for Super MAC. This is a example how bungie poorly researched about it and made it up as they pleased to.

Hopefully that 343 industries are more reliable, speaking for canon standing in the Halo Universe.

[Edited on 06.02.2011 7:46 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2011 6:44 PM PDT

Considering that every piece of Halo lore comes from the "Halo Bible" written by BUNGIE, they get final say. They don't need to do research since they came up with the source content in the first place.

The books were written by people not from the studio (except for Halo: Contact Harvest) and based out of stuff in the Halo Bible. Bungie only approved a rough outline for the books, therefore anything that comes from Bungie directly overwrites any other source.

I know alot of you obsessed with cannon are going to argue against this, but I really don't care. Bungie came up with the universe, it's their creation, what they say goes, they can do with it what they please.


And frankly, a game where Reach falls in a day, is mostly fought in space and the ground battles lasted mere hours would be BORING. The only way you could pull 10 or so hours out of that would be to have multiple characters jumping all over the place. Didn't large amounts of people complain about ODST for the very same reason?

  • 06.02.2011 6:56 PM PDT

XxXD3LuuX3 X luuC1d17YXxX

The MAC yields are were exagerated, due to the mis-understanding of ".4 tenths" to mean .4 instead of .04 (the percentage of the speed of light at which the MAC rounds travel)

That actually needed clarification, as tera tons would make nukes obselete.

  • 06.02.2011 7:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

And, you say that bungie can do what they want to? Well, not anymore. It's in hands of 343 industries now.

Anyway, I'm just stating my own opinion, that's all.

UshotYerEyeOut


And frankly, a game where Reach falls in a day, is mostly fought in space and the ground battles lasted mere hours would be BORING. The only way you could pull 10 or so hours out of that would be to have multiple characters jumping all over the place. Didn't large amounts of people complain about ODST for the very same reason?


ODST was rushed game. That's why lot of people were complaining about it.

And it is true that space battle lasted a day but not ground battles. It lasted several weeks, actually. No, it won't be boring because you can play as member of Blue Team or Master Chief for short time then back to Red team defending the generators and, retreating back to caves for while until Master Chief comes back and rescues them.

[Edited on 06.02.2011 7:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2011 7:45 PM PDT

Frankly... Master chief would be boring to me.

As well as the fact nothing new would be added to the canon. I'd basically be playing through stuff I know about.

  • 06.02.2011 8:36 PM PDT

Posted by: raganok99
And, you say that bungie can do what they want to? Well, not anymore. It's in hands of 343 industries now.

Anyway, I'm just stating my own opinion, that's all.

UshotYerEyeOut


And frankly, a game where Reach falls in a day, is mostly fought in space and the ground battles lasted mere hours would be BORING. The only way you could pull 10 or so hours out of that would be to have multiple characters jumping all over the place. Didn't large amounts of people complain about ODST for the very same reason?


ODST was rushed game. That's why lot of people were complaining about it.

And it is true that space battle lasted a day but not ground battles. It lasted several weeks, actually. No, it won't be boring because you can play as member of Blue Team or Master Chief for short time then back to Red team defending the generators and, retreating back to caves for while until Master Chief comes back and rescues them.


Ok first off, Bungie only released control of Halo after Reach was finished, all 343 studios has really done is made a few multi-player maps, so yes, Bungie has had creative control of the franchise up to Reach, which is what we're talking about.

Oh and 343 studios? That's essentially the Bungie staff that wanted to keep making Halo games for Microsoft.

Eh.... the ground battle ended quickly. After the first day the fleet was destroyed and the planet was glassed, only a handful of spartans remained, and they conducted a bunch of guerrilla raids. After that they hid in the mines, found some forerunner crystal, ran like hell in a stolen covie ship.

None of that sounds that fun to me. A good read, but not so fun.

[Edited on 06.02.2011 8:51 PM PDT]

  • 06.02.2011 8:44 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Frankly... Master chief would be boring to me.

As well as the fact nothing new would be added to the canon. I'd basically be playing through stuff I know about.


Well, we can add content and start different perspectives of being UNSC Marine or ODST (I know it has been done that in ODST, but not enough.) and it can be fine as long it is properly balanced with canon.

I'm only asking a simple question: Do you want to keep old canon system in halo universe or change it?

  • 06.02.2011 10:18 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Honor est praemium virtutis.


Posted by: Dustin 6047
Better yet, how about this community stops worrying about canon, it's one of the stupidest things to argue over.

This is the Universe forums, canon is pretty much the main subject discussed here.

  • 06.02.2011 10:44 PM PDT

Bungie Pentathlon - who actually cares ?


Posted by: raganok99
Well, we can add content and start different perspectives of being UNSC Marine or ODST (I know it has been done that in ODST, but not enough.) and it can be fine as long it is properly balanced with canon.


But..adding new stuff etc can get very very messy in an established time line. For example if 343 released a new game say set on another planet etc after the Battle of Reach.

In theory it could only have a limited vehicle and weapon set which is canonically available - as they could not just drop in a new vehicle that was "covered up by ONI" or "was a prototype and never made it off the planet" as they are both very poor ideas.

Look at the tizzy people got into when the Spartan Laser appeared in Halo Wars (and 'Wars IS canon) Simply dropping new weapons / vehicles etc cannot be done easily...however making new characters is a much easier process

  • 06.03.2011 12:43 AM PDT

No...just no. The books are canon, this is true, but they don't hold as much weight as the material actually published by the holder of the IP, in this case now 343i. The books may be given Bungie/343i's stamp of approval, but they're not the one's writing the book and there's no telling what is the author's view on the matter or Bungie/343i's.

Whereas with the games, everything in it has been thought up and created by Bungie/343i and thus they contain much more reliable information than the books do in concerns to the Halo universe.

  • 06.03.2011 11:00 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

What's the point of having the novel explaining and giving depth to the backstory when the primary source doesn't give a crap about it?

Edit-If future franchises are similar, why publish the novel. It's just fan-fiction.

[Edited on 06.03.2011 11:04 AM PDT]

  • 06.03.2011 11:03 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

I hate all these Canon Heirarchys. You should not need these at all because if you do then somebody at the franchise headquarters is not doing their job correctly.

If they want to retcon something then they should state their intent to do so, like they did with Sergeant Johnson's Flood immunity. Other than purposeful retcons, there is no need for this "New > Old". If a mistake gets through the net and states that John had Mk V Mjolnir in 2530 then we would obviously throw that away, as a typo or something. We do not need a canon hierarchy to do that, we just use common sense. However "New > Old", as with all absolutism, would have that as new canon. We disregard such mistakes all the time and that "New > Old" without realising.

As for "game > Books/whatever", if there is something particularly special about the story in a game that could not be told in a book then maybe it would have a point. Or are we seriously thinking that games are made to specifically retcon? Seeing as all the material comes from the Halo story Bible, which is one source, I cannot see how this double standard possibly arises from its pages.

Common sense, then the word of the developers, then "Old > New" is what I have always done.

[Edited on 06.03.2011 1:45 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2011 12:41 PM PDT

[url*=http://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=167323][i mg*]http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp351/Vrai_2/toxicpurp leuserbar.png[/img*][/url*]


Posted by: Dustin 6047
How about Bungie actually gives a crap instead of dismissing a lot of issues. Better yet, how about this community stops worrying about canon, it's one of the stupidest things to argue over.


He says in the FORUM ABOUT CANON

[Edited on 06.03.2011 8:54 PM PDT]

  • 06.03.2011 8:53 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

I have realized my errors in my thread, and I wasn't thinking properly since I haven't slept a day ago. Now let me explain about it:

It has been no need for this rule such as: Game canon overriding the book novel all times. It can be simple as book and game canon being on same proprietary while marketing materials being second. And, if there's overwhelming errors in the canon as such (Halo Reach) and if it can't be simply fixed, it should be considered as not canon, just call it alternate reality or other perspective or new innovation "experiment" made by Bungie.

Also there is no need of new canon overriding the old canon as well. Same can be done with being same side, instead of overriding others. It just takes little time to making sure that it matches properly, etc.

  • 06.03.2011 9:11 PM PDT
  • gamertag: tsassi
  • user homepage:

I say that everything that doesn't contradict with existing canon or sound otherwise absurd should be canon and everything that contradicts with existing canon and sounds absurd shouldn't be. Just a simple "good canon" overrides "bad canon" system.

  • 06.03.2011 9:20 PM PDT

I think we need to wait ten years and give the series a total reboot, Battalstar Galactica Style. Treat the series as-is as a sort of rough-draft, and redo it better (I love it now, that's why I'd want to see this, if done right).

  • 06.03.2011 9:26 PM PDT