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  • Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?
Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?

A sangheili with an energy sword would -blam!- a jedi on the sole reason that if a jedi tried to block a sangheili's sword, the force of the swing would dislocate the jedi's arm.

Plasma > Lasers. Cloaking. Motion Trackers. Personal Shields. The Covenant aren't force-sensetive so the force wouldn't warn them of danger beforehand.

I havn't played enough mass effect to speak on them.

Warhammer 40,000 -blam!-s all three franchises harder then uncle tom.

[Edited on 06.20.2011 2:20 AM PDT]

  • 06.20.2011 2:05 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Xd00999
I would also like to point out that Eldar can shift planets just like the Forerunners. The Dark Eldar also stole a bunch of stars when Commoragh needed a new heat/light source.

Can they BUILD said planets and stars?


No, not really. This was at the height of their power, before the accidentally brought Slaanesh into existence. The Birth Spasms destroyed most of their race and is now the Eye of Terror.

Apparently, in the new DE codex they got a massive power boost, both in game and fluff wise. I got the star stealing from a friend and I have been unable to go to a Hobby Center to confirm it. It does sound like them though.

  • 06.20.2011 5:20 AM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: Kalawaki
Warhammer 40,000 -blam!-s all three franchises harder then uncle tom.

I'm done. I've listed everything we know the Forerunners can do multiple times. Gods and Ascended -and maybe Necrons- take them out of the picture, and everything else in WH40k dies. Not without putting up one helluva fight though.

  • 06.20.2011 12:10 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: Kalawaki
A sangheili with an energy sword would -blam!- a jedi on the sole reason that if a jedi tried to block a sangheili's sword, the force of the swing would dislocate the jedi's arm.


Well, no, that's got to be one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen and Jedi/Elite sword combat has been discussed to death before. It always ends up that the Jedi wins.

Plasma > Lasers.

This has also been discussed to death before. Star Wars blaster technology is actually advanced past plasma. Plasma weapons are in the SW universe are old technology.

Cloaking. Motion Trackers. Personal Shields.
None of which would be a problem. Cloaking is useless since Jedi could really fight with heir eyes closed. Motion tracker would be useful if it wasn't a one-on-one face to face sword duel. Shields would be useless against a lightsaber.

The Covenant aren't force-sensetive so the force wouldn't warn them of danger beforehand.
Okay. I'm not sure why you just tried to make an argumwnt against the Elites winning when you just said you're pro-Elite, but it's good you recognize Elites can't use the Force I guess...

Warhammer 40,000 -blam!-s all three franchises harder then uncle tom.

The only true statement you've made.

  • 06.20.2011 12:23 PM PDT

Welcome to bungie, you have no rights. play nice!
CLICK!


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Kalawaki
Warhammer 40,000 -blam!-s all three franchises harder then uncle tom.

I'm done. I've listed everything we know the Forerunners can do multiple times. Gods and Ascended -and maybe Necrons- take them out of the picture, and everything else in WH40k dies. Not without putting up one helluva fight though.

Can you still help?

  • 06.20.2011 12:29 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter
Well, no, that's got to be one of the weakest arguments I've ever seen and Jedi/Elite sword combat has been discussed to death before. It always ends up that the Jedi wins.
A sangheili is several hundred times stronger then any jedi i've seen. They have a reaction time so fast that they literally see the world in slow motion, making them on equil level to a jedi's force-reflexes. Physically they are at an advantage. The jedi's blade manuverability is matched by the sangheili's physical superiority, when they swordfight they act more acrobatic, it's much more then simply swinging something. The sangheili energy sword is designed that if you are to use it to its full extent, you must literally use it as a part of your body, not as a tool. The only possible advantage the jedi has is the force, and most jedi that fought didn't even use the force very much. Only the main characters did that. I'm not duscussing main characters, because obviously any regular sangheili against darth vadar is going to lose.

This has also been discussed to death before. Star Wars blaster technology is actually advanced past plasma. Plasma weapons are in the SW universe are old technology.Yet the average stormtrooper blaster leaves its target structurally intact. Albiet with 3rd-4th digree burns, but intact. Halo canon depicts covenant technology as liquifying everything in its path.

None of which would be a problem. Cloaking is useless since Jedi could really fight with heir eyes closed. Motion tracker would be useful if it wasn't a one-on-one face to face sword duel. Shields would be useless against a lightsaber.Cloaking would be efficient because since the sangheili arent force-sensetive, the jedi wouldn't get any warning from the force about them. Motion tracker can be effective for tactical reasons. And only the lower-ranking shields would be useless against a lightsaber. Higher-tier shields, such as a zealot, do perfectly fine at shrugging off an energy sword, which is made of the same stuff as a lightsaber.

Okay. I'm not sure why you just tried to make an argumwnt against the Elites winning when you just said you're pro-Elite, but it's good you recognize Elites can't use the Force I guess...You misunderstand. The force can only warn the jedi of a threat if the force can affect the thing that is causing the threat. Alternatively, the jedi wouldn't be able to predict the covenant's movements in a fight, which would dull their jedi-reflexes.

The only true statement you've made.Glad you see my reasoning behind WH40k, but you seem to have misunderstood my other statements.



Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
I'm done. I've listed everything we know the Forerunners can do multiple times. Gods and Ascended -and maybe Necrons- take them out of the picture, and everything else in WH40k dies. Not without putting up one helluva fight though.
The forerunners were pushed to the brink of extinction by the flood. The Tyranids are the thing the flood want to be when they grow up. The halo rings dont even kill the flood directly, they kill the flood's food. IE sentient life. The Tyranids individually aren't sentient, just like the flood. Meaning the rings wouldn't affect them either. And the tyranids numbers make the flood look like an appitizer. The Necrons and Chaos Daemons would also be un-effected.

TL;DR

The forerunners, jedi, and reapers might as well bend over and drop their pants when they see WH40k slip into the debate.

  • 06.20.2011 12:57 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: Kalawaki


I'm not going to argue with you about Jedi/Elite swordfighting and the superiority of Blaster Technology since it's just a matter of facts that have already been presented by myself and others in other threads specifically about those subjects. I would like to critique your belief that the Force users couldn't sense Elites.

I'm not sure why you're under the impression that the Force would just have no use on the Covenant precognitively. If you could explain your reasoning behind that I'd love to hear it.

  • 06.20.2011 1:03 PM PDT

Even if you try to pull a "Elites don't have the force, therefore they are immune to sensing" (or other powers, which is bull-blam!-.) Jedi have precognition. That would allow them to predict the elite's movements regardless of being able to sense them.

Also, Jedi are not just humans. A wookiee Jedi could easily match an Elite in strength, or a Shi'ido. Lightsabters inherently are the better(IMO) weapon, as there is far more hilt options, fighting styles, and maneuverability.

Edit: There was a long ass topic about lightsabers vs energy swords. It pretty much ended with "Both are equal(better in different areas), but the lightsaber has far more options then the Energy sword."

Second edit: In response to the post above. It's a contrived and mistaken belief that "Because they aren't part of the Star Wars universe, they are automatically immune to everything force related."

[Edited on 06.20.2011 1:14 PM PDT]

  • 06.20.2011 1:08 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
I'm done. I've listed everything we know the Forerunners can do multiple times. Gods and Ascended -and maybe Necrons- take them out of the picture, and everything else in WH40k dies. Not without putting up one helluva fight though.
The forerunners were pushed to the brink of extinction by the flood. The Tyranids are the thing the flood want to be when they grow up. The halo rings dont even kill the flood directly, they kill the flood's food. IE sentient life. The Tyranids individually aren't sentient, just like the flood. Meaning the rings wouldn't affect them either. And the tyranids numbers make the flood look like an appitizer. The Necrons and Chaos Daemons would also be un-effected.

TL;DR

The forerunners, jedi, and reapers might as well bend over and drop their pants when they see WH40k slip into the debate.

Did you read my earlier post? Each infection form of the Flood is like a mini-Alex Mercer. When they infest a being, they gain all of that person's memories and information. Given how the Forerunners had a telepathical internet system... yeah. And also factor in Mendicant Bias' betrayal and The Prisoner. If the Forerunners didn't have to worry about the Containment Paradox and could just go to war without worrying about their civilians (as in, shuttle them all behind the Maginot Line, we know now that they can move planets around for fun)... 'nids would get fragged by supernovae and swarms of ships that bust planets on their own.

And it is heavily implied that the Flood during the time of the Forerunners were MANY orders of magnitude stronger and crazier than what was seen in the games.

EDIT: And to whoever keeps bringing the Reapers up, they have already been slagged by SW and the Forerunners.

[Edited on 06.20.2011 1:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.20.2011 1:17 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Second edit: In response to the post above. It's a contrived and mistaken belief that "Because they aren't part of the Star Wars universe, they are automatically immune to everything force related."


Oh. That. Basically the equivalent to throwing the chess board across the room in these discussions.

  • 06.20.2011 1:18 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Second edit: In response to the post above. It's a contrived and mistaken belief that "Because they aren't part of the Star Wars universe, they are automatically immune to everything force related."


Oh. That. Basically the equivalent to throwing the chess board across the room in these discussions.


Heh.

You know what my force user would do to somebody going "LUL, WE ISH IMMUNE TO FORCE!"?

Promptly collapse the ceiling on them. Or chuck a massive object at their face while saying "Immune this!"

  • 06.20.2011 1:23 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Heh.

You know what my force user would do to somebody going "LUL, WE ISH IMMUNE TO FORCE!"?

Promptly collapse the ceiling on them. Or chuck a massive object at their face while saying "Immune this!"


Or just pointing out they they are immune to anything the Halo universe can throw at them that doesn't exist in the Star Wars universe which includes all their weapons and every species other than humans.

  • 06.20.2011 1:27 PM PDT

Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.

I said any jedi I have seen. I have yet to see a wookie jedi. Most jedi i've seen have shown human strength, human agility, and human dexterity. A wookie jedi would certainly match a sangheili's strength, but i'm not so sure about agility and reaction time. Feel free to prove me wrong on that, though.

Another problem with precognition is even if you know what your opponant is about to do, theres the problem of being able to react in time. Sangheili can move lightning fast, and their sword is designed for their use. A sangheili with an energy sword can be just as effective as a jedi with a lightsaber. What they lack with the force they make up with physical superiority. When a sangheili swordfights, they are depicted as being highly acrobatic, spinning and flipping, literally using their entire body as a weapon. A sangheili with a lightsaber would be clumsy, and a jedi with an energy sword would be awkward.

As for the plasma vs. laser debate, my facts are based off of feats i've seen each do. In the novels, one un-charged bolt from a plasma pistol completely melted the head of a sangheili, leaving nothing but a smoldering mess between his shoulders. In the star wars movies stormtrooper blasters only show to leave burn marks but no holes on their targets. Feel free to prove me wrong in this statement too, nothing I say (as far as halo vs star wars goes) is meant to provoke someone.

  • 06.20.2011 1:27 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: Kalawaki
Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.


Well again, I'd like to know why you think that the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense an Elite.

Also, you are misusing the term Force Sensitive. Here.

[Edited on 06.20.2011 1:39 PM PDT]

  • 06.20.2011 1:34 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
I'm done. I've listed everything we know the Forerunners can do multiple times. Gods and Ascended -and maybe Necrons- take them out of the picture, and everything else in WH40k dies. Not without putting up one helluva fight though.
The forerunners were pushed to the brink of extinction by the flood. The Tyranids are the thing the flood want to be when they grow up. The halo rings dont even kill the flood directly, they kill the flood's food. IE sentient life. The Tyranids individually aren't sentient, just like the flood. Meaning the rings wouldn't affect them either. And the tyranids numbers make the flood look like an appitizer. The Necrons and Chaos Daemons would also be un-effected.

TL;DR

The forerunners, jedi, and reapers might as well bend over and drop their pants when they see WH40k slip into the debate.

Did you read my earlier post? Each infection form of the Flood is like a mini-Alex Mercer. When they infest a being, they gain all of that person's memories and information. Given how the Forerunners had a telepathical internet system... yeah. And also factor in Mendicant Bias' betrayal and The Prisoner. If the Forerunners didn't have to worry about the Containment Paradox and could just go to war without worrying about their civilians (as in, shuttle them all behind the Maginot Line, we know now that they can move planets around for fun)... 'nids would get fragged by supernovae and swarms of ships that bust planets on their own.

And it is heavily implied that the Flood during the time of the Forerunners were MANY orders of magnitude stronger and crazier than what was seen in the games.

EDIT: And to whoever keeps bringing the Reapers up, they have already been slagged by SW and the Forerunners.

The Tyranids easily outnumber the Flood. Each fleet was composed of billions of Hive Ships, each operating under the Hive Mind.

Lictors are also capable of absorbing memories of the fallen. These are always deployed in the early days of the invasion, before most even know they are being invaded.

Carnifexes are immune to massive sums of damage, there was even a record of one surviving Exterminatus. The claws of a Carnifex can pierce through the sides of a Leman Russ like butter.

Behemoth, the smallest of the three major fleets, was only defeated by a force comprised of several Chapters and even then the whole Ultramarines First Company was slaughtered.

How about the spores? Swarms of minuscule Tyranids that poison the air?

Leviathan is the strongest of the three major fleets. When coming to our galaxy they altered course and avoided a certain point in space by several hundred light years. The only thing in that space was the Outsiders prison. The greatest of all Hive Fleets where terrified by one, lone, C'Tan.

It is also heavily implied that the current hive fleets are nothing more than a vanguard to the main Tyranid force, who are infinitely stronger and more numerous.

  • 06.20.2011 1:38 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: Kalawaki
Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.


Well again, I'd like to know why you think that the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense an Elite.


Yeah... the jedi have sensed/used precognition against non force users/sensitives before. Ep2 in the bar with Obiwan and the bounty hunter for example. Yoda against the clone troopers in ep3...

  • 06.20.2011 1:40 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: dahuterschuter

[quote]Posted by: Kalawaki
Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.


Well again, I'd like to know why you think that the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense an Elite.
Jedi can sense anything that comes their way, including Blaster Fire, is blaster fire force sensitive? They would detect them a mile away by sheer sound and sense. Elites are huge, even with invisibility, they would surely make loud footsteps.

  • 06.20.2011 2:14 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: dahuterschuter

[quote]Posted by: Kalawaki
Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.


Well again, I'd like to know why you think that the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense an Elite.
Jedi can sense anything that comes their way, including Blaster Fire, is blaster fire force sensitive? They would detect them a mile away by sheer sound and sense. Elites are huge, even with invisibility, they would surely make loud footsteps.
They gain the sense-warning from the mitecloryn (spelling?) bacteria that was in the one that fired the shot. The covenant are not infected by these bacteria, which are the foundation of the force. This is my reasoning behind it.

  • 06.20.2011 2:19 PM PDT


Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: dahuterschuter

[quote]Posted by: Kalawaki
Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.


Well again, I'd like to know why you think that the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense an Elite.
Jedi can sense anything that comes their way, including Blaster Fire, is blaster fire force sensitive? They would detect them a mile away by sheer sound and sense. Elites are huge, even with invisibility, they would surely make loud footsteps.
They gain the sense-warning from the mitecloryn (spelling?) bacteria that was in the one that fired the shot. The covenant are not infected by these bacteria, which are the foundation of the force. This is my reasoning behind it.
Midichlorian*

I have to add...

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist."
- Qui-Gon Jinn

This is the main conflict between the two, in the Star Wars universe, all living things have it, EVERYTHING, In the Halo universe, we are unaware, although all different species in the Star Wars universe have a remote amount, it's only bound to be true that the Covenant have it. If not, don't forget Jedi have evolved senses that could hear, smell, and sense anything around them, without using the force.

  • 06.20.2011 2:29 PM PDT


Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Kalawaki

Posted by: mojeda101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: dahuterschuter

[quote]Posted by: Kalawaki
Let me clarify, I never said that the covenant is immune to the force. A powerful jedi could still pick one up and throw them. But they aren't force-sensetive, so the jedi wouldn't be able to sense them, and their precognition of their movements in combat would be very limited.


Well again, I'd like to know why you think that the Jedi wouldn't be able to sense an Elite.
Jedi can sense anything that comes their way, including Blaster Fire, is blaster fire force sensitive? They would detect them a mile away by sheer sound and sense. Elites are huge, even with invisibility, they would surely make loud footsteps.
They gain the sense-warning from the mitecloryn (spelling?) bacteria that was in the one that fired the shot. The covenant are not infected by these bacteria, which are the foundation of the force. This is my reasoning behind it.
Midichlorian*

I have to add...

"Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist."
- Qui-Gon Jinn

This is the main conflict between the two, in the Star Wars universe, all living things have it, EVERYTHING, In the Halo universe, we are unaware, although all different species in the Star Wars universe have a remote amount, it's only bound to be true that the Covenant have it. If not, don't forget Jedi have evolved senses that could hear, smell, and sense anything around them, without using the force.

Saying that all races in a different franchise are infected by the bacteria is like saying every race in star wars is infected with tyranid spores.

yes they have hightened senses, but the force wont give them a warning sense against the covenant. Thats all i'm saying.

  • 06.20.2011 2:38 PM PDT

One word: W'rkncacnter.

  • 06.20.2011 3:39 PM PDT

Posted by: Kalawaki
Saying that all races in a different franchise are infected by the bacteria is like saying every race in star wars is infected with tyranid spores.

yes they have hightened senses, but the force wont give them a warning sense against the covenant. Thats all i'm saying.


Explain yourself, what will they not detect? Plasma? Elites?

  • 06.20.2011 3:57 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The Yuuzhan Vong weren't Force sensitive, but the Jedi still kicked their asses. Same with the Covenant, Forerunners, and humans.

  • 06.20.2011 4:00 PM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: Kalawaki
They gain the sense-warning from the mitecloryn (spelling?) bacteria that was in the one that fired the shot. The covenant are not infected by these bacteria, which are the foundation of the force. This is my reasoning behind it.


I've actually never heard that before. What novel is that from? I'm genuinely kind of interested. I checked the Wookieepedia page about Force Sense to see and although there isn't anything about that, it could be true.

From what I understand and what the page says, one aspect is a danger sense, which is just a general prickling on their neck to let them know that danger is near. It works when people are about to attack or if a rock were jarred loose from a cliff or if they were above a pitfall. So even if it's true that the Force sense only works through being which have Midichlorians.

The Yuuzhan Vong had no Force presence, but in all the information I can sift through, it wasn't because they had no midichlorians.

There's also the fact that Jedi and Sith can sense the actions of Droids, which have no midichlorians. That would suggest that midichlorian presence in the sensee has no sway on the abilities of the sensor.

  • 06.20.2011 4:58 PM PDT

I suspect llamas are secretly wizards. I <3 poptarts n' milk. I like me. Grimick is defined as: a logical parodox, the act of funnaling a potato down your throat, and a deliciously flavored muffin (with pecons and blueberries). Norway is the Swedish word for 'moron'. My sister has cancer, so i get to use handicap parking and cut small children in line at Disneyland.

"Don't eat doughnuts on thin ice."

"The pancake, my friend, has officially been flipped."

The forerunners would just use the halo rings on SW and ME :)

  • 06.20.2011 5:01 PM PDT