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  • Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?
Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
With ME, two Fortress-class warships have ended all the races. Three/four Fortress-class warships with escorts have ended the Reapers.

Why so many? There's no kill like overkill.


What are the tech specs of those ships?

Not "Blows up planets." numbers. What can they do exactly, what are their weaknesses? How much damage can they take?

These things are kinda needed for any decent vs debate.

Edit: I can't be the only person who notices this blatent irony. "Star Wars is excluded, their numbers are bull-blam!- and overdone!" etc. Then those same people turn around and go "Oh this forerunner ship can easily destroy entire fleets of enemy ships (Star Wars, ME, galactica, whatever) even though we have jack squat numbers or information about what they are really armed with, what their defensive capabilities are, etc."


Nothing specific has ever been given, only examples. For support craft (as you obviously know the kinds of weapons they have) read this:

"Even before it had emerged half-way, the Fortress began to loose clouds of fighters--at this distance, they resembled a puff of pollen from a flower..." Cryptum Pg. 320.

Oh, and we've been saying for a while now that the Fortress destroyed the first Ring. That isn't true. 4 smaller cruisers did.

If you want to talk about automated defenses:

"Now decorate each slice*, like a round stair step, with an almost infinitely dense array of structures, and surround it with a golden swarm of transports and sentinels and a dozen other variety of security patrols, thik as fog..." (Cryptum, pg. 281)

*: Born was giving an analogy, saying the Captial world looks like two slices of fruit, two halves of world, split open.

All other evidence pertaining to the power of their ships is calculated, such as how to effectively destroy a Halo, you'd need a force upwards into the terratons or petatons, basedb on the depiction of the destruction of Halo in the games compared to the ease with which the Forerunners achieved the same feat.

  • 06.21.2011 8:16 AM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: grey101
@ to SC


RoF? rate of fire?

Yeah. I just want to know just how long the battle will go on...

  • 06.21.2011 10:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: grey101
@ to SC


RoF? rate of fire?

Yeah. I just want to know just how long the battle will go on...


Well mass effect doesn't have large fleets to begin with, they can't fight prolonged battles due to overheating, they are solely dependent on mass effect technology, and they don't have AIs or countermeasures against them.

That being said if we are talking about all the space faring races with ships (i'll be nice and put this number at about 900 due to reapers) going against 1 fortress class ship i would say under an hour.

I point out all the mechanics in mass effect thus you can have an idea how that is going to cripple them not to mention non of the ships are even miles in length thus they are ticks to the fortress ship.

  • 06.21.2011 10:46 AM PDT

there are an unknown number of Reapers in Mass Effect, no concrete number is ever given except what Sovereign states which is that their number is great enough to darken the skies of ALL of our worlds, imagine the number of ships required to block the sunlight on Earth alone, never mind the unknown number of other worlds! the number of Reapers could well number in the millions, hell even billions, no one knows! also they have some rather insidious methods of bending one to their will and I think most forms of sentient life are vulnerable to that. think based on what I have seen over the years from Halo and Mass Effect, from a neutral stand point without mention of 'yields' or any of that nonsense, think the only species that would trouble the Reapers would be the Forerunner.

also it DOES NOT take that more power to destroy a Halo, rings are flawed designs from the off, to destroy a ring of ANY size all one needs to do is take a segment out of it, it doesn't require 'teratons' or 'petatons' of power to do that, like I said earlier why does this always come down to brute force? there are more efficient solutions to take out a Halo, without resorting to ungodly amounts of fire-power, look at a modern battle tank, armoured to hell but not destroyed by enormous amounts of explosives, destroyed by shaped charges, small charge, same effect. that is all...

  • 06.21.2011 10:50 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: grey101
@ to SC


RoF? rate of fire?

Yeah. I just want to know just how long the battle will go on...


Well mass effect doesn't have large fleets to begin with, they can't fight prolonged battles due to overheating, they are solely dependent on mass effect technology, and they don't have AIs or countermeasures against them.

That being said if we are talking about all the space faring races with ships (i'll be nice and put this number at about 900 due to reapers) going against 1 fortress class ship i would say under an hour.

I point out all the mechanics in mass effect thus you can have an idea how that is going to cripple them not to mention non of the ships are even miles in length thus they are ticks to the fortress ship.


A Modern Fortress' length--roughly 100 kilometers--is sufficient enough to have enough of those world-busting weapons/other sort of cannons lining its starboard and port hull to probably one shot every ship in the Alliance fleet on the opening salvo plus change, not to mention the fighters, which are so mumerous off of a single ship that they look like a cloud.

Rinse and repeat (since Forerunner ships have never shown to have to wait and recharge weaponry) and I'd say the "battle" involving one Fortress vs the entire ME universe would last about 15 minutes if I'm right, with ME not een taking down the Forerunners' shields maybe

I say this because for their ships to dish out such power at that magnitude, they'd also have to be able to take it. The strongest weapon in ME is 32 kilotons. The weakest known weapon in the primary FR Navy (warships only) is 900 terratons to 10 petatons depending.

Hell, a single Cruiser could likely take on the entire ME universe in that case.

  • 06.21.2011 10:56 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Thats the point we came to pages ago, which is clearly why if somebody comes in raging about ME they don't know what they are talking about.

  • 06.21.2011 10:59 AM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
there are an unknown number of Reapers in Mass Effect, no concrete number is ever given except what Sovereign states which is that their number is great enough to darken the skies of ALL of our worlds, imagine the number of ships required to block the sunlight on Earth alone, never mind the unknown number of other worlds! the number of Reapers could well number in the millions, hell even billions, no one knows! also they have some rather insidious methods of bending one to their will and I think most forms of sentient life are vulnerable to that. think based on what I have seen over the years from Halo and Mass Effect, from a neutral stand point without mention of 'yields' or any of that nonsense, think the only species that would trouble the Reapers would be the Forerunner.

also it DOES NOT take that more power to destroy a Halo, rings are flawed designs from the off, to destroy a ring of ANY size all one needs to do is take a segment out of it, it doesn't require 'teratons' or 'petatons' of power to do that, like I said earlier why does this always come down to brute force? there are more efficient solutions to take out a Halo, without resorting to ungodly amounts of fire-power, look at a modern battle tank, armoured to hell but not destroyed by enormous amounts of explosives, destroyed by shaped charges, small charge, same effect. that is all...


@top paragraph.

So what you mean to say is, we lose in Mass Effect 3?

@bottom paragraph

Yes, I know that. And what it took to make only a 5 kilometer crater in the armor was a several hundred terraton yield. It is explicitly stated that the centrifugal force of the Ring's shape and spin is what destroyed it.

You didn't mention anything we didn't already know. The mere fact an explosion of that size didn't destroy the Ring, that it took an additional force to take it out, is proof enough of the FR's power. Why? Well, the book describes 4 cruisers cutting canyons and massive gouges into the Ring's hull, blowing mountains off of the surface and all. What otherwise took a several terraton explosion to do the Forerunners did even better in a few shots. So what's your point? We've repeated over and over again the Ring's own shape killed it, not brute force.

[Edited on 06.21.2011 11:04 AM PDT]

  • 06.21.2011 11:02 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
there are an unknown number of Reapers in Mass Effect, no concrete number is ever given except what Sovereign states which is that their number is great enough to darken the skies of ALL of our worlds, imagine the number of ships required to block the sunlight on Earth alone, never mind the unknown number of other worlds! the number of Reapers could well number in the millions, hell even billions, no one knows! also they have some rather insidious methods of bending one to their will and I think most forms of sentient life are vulnerable to that. think based on what I have seen over the years from Halo and Mass Effect, from a neutral stand point without mention of 'yields' or any of that nonsense, think the only species that would trouble the Reapers would be the Forerunner.



"darken the skies of ALL of our worlds" just like the elites glassed "half of africa"?

That was a clear exaggeration and if that were true in the slightest it wouldn't have took so long to wipe out the Prometheans if the honestly had that many numbers. Stop taking every word so literally without thinking about it. Plus if the reapers had that many ships they (even being machines) wouldn't be so cautious in making sure they are never found.


", think the only species that would trouble the Reapers would be the Forerunner."

Huh? are you going to pull a jonx and clearly ignore the information that others have calculated in that the covenant would be more than enough to take out the reapers? not to mention the plasma seriously damage a reaper not to mention covenant ships are pretty damn big thus have a higher power output.


  • 06.21.2011 11:05 AM PDT

right, this is an in-depth post about the Reapers. at first, when this debate first started I was one of those who thought 'Reapers, sure...!' however, upon going through the Mass Effect games again and reading all the material I am no longer so sure it would be so clear cut as we all think, let me explain...!

think the technology of Sovereign has been underestimated, the final battle at the Citadel the fleet was powerless to stop it, nothing made an impact on the Reaper, even ramming a cruiser didn't damage it or slow it down. it just casually flew (without even firing back) through the Citadel defence fleet, like it didn't care, it wasn't concerned with those 'insects'.

inside the Citadel, the Alliance ships shot and shot and shot, nothing even scratched it, in return it used its shall we call them 'point defence?', each shot (no more than one shot) junked whatever it touched and it had what, around six or more of these weapons? not to mention it has a large, spinal mounted 'main gun' of unknown length and power, it didn't use that main gun during the battle so speculating on its level of fire-power is difficult. however we can 'guess' to the power of the gun, an alliance dreadnought fires slugs at 1.3% light speed with the impact of around ~40 kilotons of TNT, since the Reapers are well, experts in Mass Effect technology, building the relays, the Citadel and what not we can assume that the main gun can accelerate a projectile to much greater velocities, not to mention the projectile itself is probably going to be more massive, liquid and super-heated, would it be wrong to guess it might be as much as ten or more times stronger than the ones used on Alliance ships? based on how powerful its much smaller weapons were, junking everything in a single shot?

also Sovereign' defences are a bit of a confusing topic as well, because the fire did nothing, don't think a single weapon touched its hull until the death of Saren seemed to 'weaken' it, when Saren is killed Sovereign seems to shut down and 'fall off' the tower, unshielded, loss of power, is it possible that Sovereign had 'possessed' Saren and his destruction either killed or stunned Sovereign? either way whatever happened at that moment was the only reason Sovereign was destroyed, leading me to question what does it take to kill one without such an event going in ones favour?

the Derelict Reaper from Mass Effect II had been 'dead' and almost powerless in super low orbit of a Gas Giant for millions upon millions of years, and its power source is still working seemingly well, enough to hold the 'unknown' sized Reaper in perfect orbit of the planet and then generate a shield around itself when its boarded, not to mention it was 'dead' and still indoctrinated the researchers without much trouble.

another thing worth noting, we don't know if the Reapers lost any of their own fighting the Protheans, no information on that topic is given, that fact is we have never seen a Reaper defeated without some 'divine' intervention, so not sure where these statements regarding how the Covenant would walk over them comes from? also another thing for the Reapers, the fact they can land and stroll around, whilst mass murdering is an interesting feat for a giant sentient warship, if Grunts are pushed over the edge by a SPARTAN, what the hell they going to make of a Reaper wasting all their buddies?

Edit: also as much as people choose to forget, plasma has mass therefore won't circumvent the shielding of a Reaper, another point is Alliance shields are 'kinetic barriers' but the nature of the Reaper defences could be different, would even hint it could be since the derelict was in the horrible, volatile atmosphere of a gas giant for aeons without being destroyed by severe temperatures, radiation or other such things. also unless some random 'divine intervention' occurs in Mass Effect III to help Sheppard then sure, its the end of the world, in the trailer there is 'thousands' of Reapers in orbit of Earth (darken the skies anyone?) and nothing to hint that is their 'entire' number...so for the number part, still there is 100% no facts to tell us a number for the Reapers, there might be thousands (at the minimum, due to the fact there are 'thousands' above Earth) or there could be trillions, who knows?

also, look at some of the weapons used by the Collectors, those particle beams which annihilate people in the blink of an eye. the Collectors are nothing more (literally) than pawns to a single Reaper, Harbinger. if the Collectors have some advanced technology it would suggest the Reapers surpass them with ease in technological terms.

[Edited on 06.21.2011 2:03 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2011 1:55 PM PDT

Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.

  • 06.21.2011 2:22 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.

  • 06.21.2011 2:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235

think the technology of Sovereign has been underestimated, the final battle at the Citadel the fleet was powerless to stop it, nothing made an impact on the Reaper, even ramming a cruiser didn't damage it or slow it down. it just casually flew (without even firing back) through the Citadel defence fleet, like it didn't care, it wasn't concerned with those 'insects'.

inside the Citadel, the Alliance ships shot and shot and shot, nothing even scratched it, in return it used its shall we call them 'point defence?', each shot (no more than one shot) junked whatever it touched and it had what, around six or more of these weapons? not to mention it has a large, spinal mounted 'main gun' of unknown length and power, it didn't use that main gun during the battle so speculating on its level of fire-power is difficult. however we can 'guess' to the power of the gun, an alliance dreadnought fires slugs at 1.3% light speed with the impact of around ~40 kilotons of TNT, since the Reapers are well, experts in Mass Effect technology, building the relays, the Citadel and what not we can assume that the main gun can accelerate a projectile to much greater velocities, not to mention the projectile itself is probably going to be more massive, liquid and super-heated, would it be wrong to guess it might be as much as ten or more times stronger than the ones used on Alliance ships? based on how powerful its much smaller weapons were, junking everything in a single shot?

also Sovereign' defences are a bit of a confusing topic as well, because the fire did nothing, don't think a single weapon touched its hull until the death of Saren seemed to 'weaken' it, when Saren is killed Sovereign seems to shut down and 'fall off' the tower, unshielded, loss of power, is it possible that Sovereign had 'possessed' Saren and his destruction either killed or stunned Sovereign? either way whatever happened at that moment was the only reason Sovereign was destroyed, leading me to question what does it take to kill one without such an event going in ones favour?

the Derelict Reaper from Mass Effect II had been 'dead' and almost powerless in super low orbit of a Gas Giant for millions upon millions of years, and its power source is still working seemingly well, enough to hold the 'unknown' sized Reaper in perfect orbit of the planet and then generate a shield around itself when its boarded, not to mention it was 'dead' and still indoctrinated the researchers without much trouble.

another thing worth noting, we don't know if the Reapers lost any of their own fighting the Protheans, no information on that topic is given, that fact is we have never seen a Reaper defeated without some 'divine' intervention, so not sure where these statements regarding how the Covenant would walk over them comes from? also another thing for the Reapers, the fact they can land and stroll around, whilst mass murdering is an interesting feat for a giant sentient warship, if Grunts are pushed over the edge by a SPARTAN, what the hell they going to make of a Reaper wasting all their buddies?

Edit: also as much as people choose to forget, plasma has mass therefore won't circumvent the shielding of a Reaper, another point is Alliance shields are 'kinetic barriers' but the nature of the Reaper defences could be different, would even hint it could be since the derelict was in the horrible, volatile atmosphere of a gas giant for aeons without being destroyed by severe temperatures, radiation or other such things. also unless some random 'divine intervention' occurs in Mass Effect III to help Sheppard then sure, its the end of the world, in the trailer there is 'thousands' of Reapers in orbit of Earth (darken the skies anyone?) and nothing to hint that is their 'entire' number...so for the number part, still there is 100% no facts to tell us a number for the Reapers, there might be thousands (at the minimum, due to the fact there are 'thousands' above Earth) or there could be trillions, who knows?

also, look at some of the weapons used by the Collectors, those particle beams which annihilate people in the blink of an eye. the Collectors are nothing more (literally) than pawns to a single Reaper, Harbinger. if the Collectors have some advanced technology it would suggest the Reapers surpass them with ease in technological terms.


1. you personally thinking that sovereign was being underestimated and people understanding his capabilities is different. you "think" it is different becuase you don't want mass effect to be a sore contender despite the fact we have been using the mass effect codex for all the calculations and knowledge.

2. the alliance wasn't doing anything to the reaper due to them using mass effect technology which the reapers created and are highly resistant to. the kilo tons of TNT in mass effect doesn't equate to the Gig-Peta tons in halo.no we can not "assume something is X times stronger" your doing that to make up calculations for mass effect when we have already done them.

3.again "leading you to question" you are taking this from a personal standpoint and not a factual one. sovereign is an AI therefore can do task simultaneously, saren failing wouldn't have "stunned" him or anything of the sort.

4. your point? you can disable any ship and it would still be active to a degree, this is not new to ScFi. i don't know why you are banking on indoctrination, any race with common sense would stay away from the reapers once they realize that effect. no to mention i am sure the forerunners would be difficult to indoctrinate due to their higher mental capabilities not to mention the technology they could employ to stop it. such as creating a device to mess with the signal.

5. is that relevant at all? so what if the protheans didn't kill any of them, if you haven't noticed the reapers tend to avoid fighting directly and i am sure efficiency isn't the only reason for that. and what do you mean "we haven't seen a reaper be killed without divine intervention"? we saw one get killed in both games.

Well seeing how covenant ships are larger, have shields, fire plasma (which the kinetic barriers don't hold against) and fire in the peta tons, there isn't much doubt in why they would walk over the reapers.

6.from what i have seen reapers don't even use shields they just have a thick alloy which again is open to plasma fire.

7.can you stop with the childish logic of taking a exaggerated post so literally and look at the facts. if the reapers honestly had that many numbers they wouldn't be so careful to avoid being found when they are "resting" not to mention if they were strong as you think they are they wouldn't even need to hide nor sneak attack the races.

And there were not "thousands of reapers" in that picture, the were weren't even a hundred so again stop exaggerating.

8. you do know the reapers pretty much created the collectors right? your arguing for mass effect and you don't even know the canon behind it.

[Edited on 06.21.2011 2:47 PM PDT]

  • 06.21.2011 2:46 PM PDT


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.


Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

If you cannot, I'm going to -blam!- laugh because you all toss Star Wars, with established techincal data(Which I provided links to two pages of Star Wars firepower, one calculated SOLEY from the movies), as bull-blam!- stats/overpowered, then turn around and expect me to accept "Oh, Forerunners win just cause."

  • 06.21.2011 2:47 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.


Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

If you cannot, I'm going to -blam!- laugh because you all toss Star Wars, with established techincal data(Which I provided links to two pages of Star Wars firepower, one calculated SOLEY from the movies), as bull-blam!- stats/overpowered, then turn around and expect me to accept "Oh, Forerunners win just cause."


we don't have calculations but based from the calculations of what we have from other halo factions, the fact that this is the forerunners we are talking about, and the fact mere fighters could rake continents; it is clear that they along with anything in halo would be mass effect.

this is the only thing i am adamantly supporting becuase they are the main universe i know off the top of my head (including a few others), but in all honesty commander they would lose.

  • 06.21.2011 2:50 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.


Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

If you cannot, I'm going to -blam!- laugh because you all toss Star Wars, with established techincal data(Which I provided links to two pages of Star Wars firepower, one calculated SOLEY from the movies), as bull-blam!- stats/overpowered, then turn around and expect me to accept "Oh, Forerunners win just cause."


we don't have calculations but based from the calculations of what we have from other halo factions, the fact that this is the forerunners we are talking about, and the fact mere fighters could rake continents; it is clear that they along with anything in halo would be mass effect.

this is the only thing i am adamantly supporting becuase they are the main universe i know off the top of my head (including a few others), but in all honesty commander they would lose.


Wow, you say you don't but then clearly say you do? Make up your mind. Without calculations this has to be fail topic. /thread

  • 06.21.2011 2:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?




Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.[/quote]

Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.[/quote]

Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

If you cannot, I'm going to -blam!- laugh because you all toss Star Wars, with established techincal data(Which I provided links to two pages of Star Wars firepower, one calculated SOLEY from the movies), as bull-blam!- stats/overpowered, then turn around and expect me to accept "Oh, Forerunners win just cause."


we don't have calculations but based from the calculations of what we have from other halo factions, the fact that this is the forerunners we are talking about, and the fact mere fighters could rake continents; it is clear that they along with anything in halo would be mass effect.

this is the only thing i am adamantly supporting becuase they are the main universe i know off the top of my head (including a few others), but in all honesty commander they would lose.


Wow, you say you don't but then clearly say you do? Make up your mind. Without calculations this has to be fail topic. /thread


I was talking about not having calculations for forerunner weaponry but having calculations for UNSC and Covenant weaponry. so next time you try looking cool read the post's.

/your post

  • 06.21.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
right, this is an in-depth post about the Reapers. at first, when this debate first started I was one of those who thought 'Reapers, sure...!' however, upon going through the Mass Effect games again and reading all the material I am no longer so sure it would be so clear cut as we all think, let me explain...!

think the technology of Sovereign has been underestimated, the final battle at the Citadel the fleet was powerless to stop it, nothing made an impact on the Reaper, even ramming a cruiser didn't damage it or slow it down. it just casually flew (without even firing back) through the Citadel defence fleet, like it didn't care, it wasn't concerned with those 'insects'.

inside the Citadel, the Alliance ships shot and shot and shot, nothing even scratched it, in return it used its shall we call them 'point defence?', each shot (no more than one shot) junked whatever it touched and it had what, around six or more of these weapons? not to mention it has a large, spinal mounted 'main gun' of unknown length and power, it didn't use that main gun during the battle so speculating on its level of fire-power is difficult. however we can 'guess' to the power of the gun, an alliance dreadnought fires slugs at 1.3% light speed with the impact of around ~40 kilotons of TNT, since the Reapers are well, experts in Mass Effect technology, building the relays, the Citadel and what not we can assume that the main gun can accelerate a projectile to much greater velocities, not to mention the projectile itself is probably going to be more massive, liquid and super-heated, would it be wrong to guess it might be as much as ten or more times stronger than the ones used on Alliance ships? based on how powerful its much smaller weapons were, junking everything in a single shot?

also Sovereign' defences are a bit of a confusing topic as well, because the fire did nothing, don't think a single weapon touched its hull until the death of Saren seemed to 'weaken' it, when Saren is killed Sovereign seems to shut down and 'fall off' the tower, unshielded, loss of power, is it possible that Sovereign had 'possessed' Saren and his destruction either killed or stunned Sovereign? either way whatever happened at that moment was the only reason Sovereign was destroyed, leading me to question what does it take to kill one without such an event going in ones favour?

the Derelict Reaper from Mass Effect II had been 'dead' and almost powerless in super low orbit of a Gas Giant for millions upon millions of years, and its power source is still working seemingly well, enough to hold the 'unknown' sized Reaper in perfect orbit of the planet and then generate a shield around itself when its boarded, not to mention it was 'dead' and still indoctrinated the researchers without much trouble.

another thing worth noting, we don't know if the Reapers lost any of their own fighting the Protheans, no information on that topic is given, that fact is we have never seen a Reaper defeated without some 'divine' intervention, so not sure where these statements regarding how the Covenant would walk over them comes from? also another thing for the Reapers, the fact they can land and stroll around, whilst mass murdering is an interesting feat for a giant sentient warship, if Grunts are pushed over the edge by a SPARTAN, what the hell they going to make of a Reaper wasting all their buddies?

Edit: also as much as people choose to forget, plasma has mass therefore won't circumvent the shielding of a Reaper, another point is Alliance shields are 'kinetic barriers' but the nature of the Reaper defences could be different, would even hint it could be since the derelict was in the horrible, volatile atmosphere of a gas giant for aeons without being destroyed by severe temperatures, radiation or other such things. also unless some random 'divine intervention' occurs in Mass Effect III to help Sheppard then sure, its the end of the world, in the trailer there is 'thousands' of Reapers in orbit of Earth (darken the skies anyone?) and nothing to hint that is their 'entire' number...so for the number part, still there is 100% no facts to tell us a number for the Reapers, there might be thousands (at the minimum, due to the fact there are 'thousands' above Earth) or there could be trillions, who knows?

also, look at some of the weapons used by the Collectors, those particle beams which annihilate people in the blink of an eye. the Collectors are nothing more (literally) than pawns to a single Reaper, Harbinger. if the Collectors have some advanced technology it would suggest the Reapers surpass them with ease in technological terms.


The reason we say the Covies could defeat the Reapers is that the Covenant's energy lance is a laser bolt, that would ignore the shields (and before you say the Reapers could have an unknown defense type, we don't know that, so its a non-factor). The armor on a Reaper we know for a fact can be destroyed by sub-kilo missiles. The Lance on Covie ships has split entire battle groups in half at a distance up to and including 100,000 kilometers, even once detonating five UNSC ships with one shot.

But the Covies vs Reapers is an even match. Once the Forerunners get involved its laughable how quick they die.

Oh, and BioWare has stated "you're not going to find some Reaper 'off' switch; you're going to need to construct a real plan and find out how to defeat them."

/paraphrase

So 66 tonnes of HE spewing "divine intervention" isn't likely to happen.

I've also heard of a Thresher Maw tackling a Reaper and almost winning, in ME3, and I've seen Shepard shooting a Reaper with a defensive turret, so there are ways to kill them.

  • 06.21.2011 3:13 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

There reason i say covenant> reapers is due to covenant having numbers and fighters.

  • 06.21.2011 3:16 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.


Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

inb4 RobertoJH goes bat[REDACTED] insane.

Throughout the course of this thread it has been stated OVER AND OVER how strong the Forerunner ships' weapons are.

Though, we do need damage tanking calcs for Forerunner ships, not just the missile spam+MAC bombardment seen in H3's "The Storm" level.

  • 06.21.2011 3:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.


Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

If you cannot, I'm going to -blam!- laugh because you all toss Star Wars, with established techincal data(Which I provided links to two pages of Star Wars firepower, one calculated SOLEY from the movies), as bull-blam!- stats/overpowered, then turn around and expect me to accept "Oh, Forerunners win just cause."


Comander, sit down and pay close attention to what I'm saying. You apparently didn't read me the last ten times I explained this.

Still with me? Okay.

Someone on this forum calculated the proportional width of the surface of Halo Installation .04 to its diameter (10,000 kilometers) which came out to a width of something between 390 km-440km (I cant remember rightly, maybe he can tell you if he's still here). The fireball blast radius of the PoA is 5 times the width of the Ring. For an explosive blast of that size to occur, the force must have been greater then 400 terratons on a low end blast (390 kilometer diameter) and 600 terratons high end (440 kilometers).

So upon review using the SD.net calculator, my original memory was botched. Either way, 400-600 terratons is still an outrageous explosion. Now, this blast put only a 5 kilometer crater in the hull of the Ring; the Ring destroyed itself (Cited: the Flood novel).

By comparison, the Forerunner cruisers that attacked the first ring in Cryptum destroyed the Ring completely, cutting "canyon like gouges" in the hull, and blasting entire mountain ranges off the surface on the other, interior side (Cited: Cryptum).

Now: look at what I just said and maybe, finally, you'll get it. 400-600 terratons were needed to do the exact same thing the Forerunners did with their ship weapons. Do you see it now?

-------

Now, onto your next point. One event in the movies, one special effects-lacking event, somehow manages to negate every other bit of evidence, all of the shots fired in all of the other movies (specifically the Coruscant battle in Ep III)?

Take a look at the Venator vs the Invisible Hand. Did you see any spectacular example os supervova weapons?

Or the Medical Frigate vs the ISD in Episode VI. Both are blasting each other with turbolasers, neither causes a nova.

Or howabout the escape from Naboo scene in Ep I? A droid gets blown to pieces by a turbolaser shot. But he doesn't vaporize. This same kind of droid that can get killed by a pistol shot. See where I'm going?

Or every other shot fired in EP III? Not one of them got even close to a gigatonnage super nuke explosion. Not. One.

  • 06.21.2011 3:46 PM PDT


Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Collectors were actually Protheans, completely bio-engineered to become pawns of the reapers.

Also, that derelict reaper? Was 'killed' by a MASSIVE mass driver weapon on a planet, and I believe where it was is the site of an equally massive canyon/crater from the Reapers destroying it. As far as I know in the ME lore, the derelict reaper was the only one lost prior to sovereign.


Prove to me, using in canon sources, that Reapers can withstand hits from multi-teraton yield weaponry. Your logic.


Prove to me, using canon sources, how much firepower a Forerunner ship can dish out, and receive. NUMBERS. Not bull-blam!-.

inb4 RobertoJH goes bat[REDACTED] insane.

Throughout the course of this thread it has been stated OVER AND OVER how strong the Forerunner ships' weapons are.

Though, we do need damage tanking calcs for Forerunner ships, not just the missile spam+MAC bombardment seen in H3's "The Storm" level.


Just made it, Matt Klassen, though I feel I kept calm today.

  • 06.21.2011 3:47 PM PDT

I somehow doubt you looked at that page using only movies to calculate and still had the Star Wars weapons dishing out considerable firepower.

  • 06.21.2011 4:05 PM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Rematching CE's ending, after the explosion, it took roughly 3 seconds for the ring to start destabilizing and break apart. Cryptum never gave an exact time for the length of the attack on the Halos, however, it would be safe to assume it was longer then 3 seconds. The destruction of the Halos in Cyptum where likely a combination of the Forerunners weaponry and the Halos tearing themselves apart due to the attacks on their structure.

  • 06.21.2011 4:17 PM PDT

what the crap? Reapers DO use shields, how the hell can you debate that? when you board the Derelict Reaper you get trapped because of the SHIELD, watch the Mass Effect 3 Trailer the Reapers are getting shot from tons of crap from the ground, nothing of which is touching it because of what looks like a SHIELD?

hundreds of Reapers, again what the hell? watch the Mass Effect 3 news broadcast trailer, the dude mentions THOUSANDS of Reapers above 'Europe', not hundreds, thousands! no bleeding 'faking' number or what not, the source is the OFFICIAL trailer.

Sovereigns weapon WILL be substantially more powerful than those used by the other races, the logic for this? the THANIX cannons on Normandy were only made thanks to studying the remains of Sovereign and work using the same concept except compared to Sovereigns gun they are tiny, tiny things and some shots are meant to be able to take out a Collector ship, which are fairly large. in the exact same way that a Gauss cannon on the back of a Warthog is the same technology as a MAC on a ship, which is more powerful? its the exact same argument! also the Codex states that the THANIX cannon accelerates its molten projectile to a 'fraction the speed of light', now 1% isn't really a fraction, well it is 1/100 but can't think of any time that fractions are used that way, that usually gets called percentage, also mention of 'relativistic velocities', take that as you like.

also how is it my own 'personal opinion' on how Sovereign was defeated? have you ever played the game? it goes from effortlessly annihilating the Alliance ships, like pest control whilst soaking up whatever they launch at it to unshielded, not firing and randomly falling from the tower and then the Alliance dudes proceed to say 'its SHIELD! is down...now is our chance...' again further making me think 'what the ****?' with the argument they have no shield? but yes, it goes from being fine one second to falling off the tower without shields the next, this seems to tie in with killing Saren. so again how can you doubt that killing the possessed corpse of Saren did something to Sovereign?

also afraid of a fight? don't forget Sovereign decided it was going to attack one of the heaviest defended stations in the Mass Effect universe and appeared to take no damage, also in the Mass Effect 3 trailer invading Earth suggest they aren't scared of a fight, since the humans seem incapable of damaging them! also wiped out the Protheans, which the Protheans were powerless to stop or even slow down by the sounds of things.

also another important point that is being 'conveniently' forgotten is the fact the Reapers don't just wipe things out, they harvest. now which takes longer, harvesting a crop field or flattening it with a daisy cutter? why would it take them so long to destroy the Protheans, maybe they weren't in any hurry? they do after-all seem to be almost eternal, like Sovereign says they have no beginning and no end, they just are. also what makes you think Sovereign was over-estimating Reaper numbers, what motive does it have? similar to the dude at the end of Cryptum saying 'I am the last Precursor...' what is so hard to understand about that?

finally nobody has made any calculations about Sovereign or the Reapers, how can you calculate something that isn't understood? there is no hard evidence to suggest what Sovereigns main weapon was capable of, its all based on what is known of the Reapers, their technological level and such. I find it damned right ignorant to accuse me of that sort of crap when you are doing the exact same bloody thing with the Forerunner, there is absolutely sweet bollocks to give much of an indications of how powerful their weapons are. just remember for a second that misinterpretation/assumption is the mother of all -blam!- ups!

  • 06.22.2011 5:01 AM PDT
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Do not waste your tears, I was not born to watch the world grow dim. Life is not measured in years, but by the deeds of men.

Posted by: goldhawk
We should know better, because we are better.

Sovereign was destroyed because he was controlling Saren completely. He was Saren. When Shepard killed him the shock of being "killed" stunned Sovereign temporarily which was what allowed the fleet to destroy him.

  • 06.22.2011 5:12 AM PDT