- Devils Preists
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Posted by: Devils Preists
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
biggest problem for Universe comparison is lack of continuity, the way all of the said Universes seem to change whenever something else is required to assist the 'hero', the same thing happens with Star Wars and Star Trek debates, an example of universal messing, Star Wars Star Destroyers are said to be able to put out Gigaton levels of power with their Turbo-Lasers, a Star Destroyer itself has no issues taking countless hits from these weapons, yet in Episode V (I think) a Star Destroyer gets hit by an asteroid around 1/10 the volume of the bridge section, which cripples the Destroyer, the speed its moving and the size of it, the energy released by the impact would be several Kilotons at best. so right there is a classic example of 'science' in these universes changing to suit the needs of the stories.
same thing happens in Halo countless times, Magnetic Accelerator Cannons are powerful multi-Kiloton weapons, however a Spire in Reach gets destroyed by something less than even a Kiloton yield. Pillar of Autumn survives being hit by something like eight Plasma Torpedoes in the original cut-scene without catastrophic damage, these Plasma Torpedoes are said to 'melt ships...', again altering to suit the current situation.
Star Trek is also rather guilty of the same thing, Phase Cannons for example are said to put out 500 Gigajoules of energy, which is only around 180 tons of TNT, however in the first test of the Phase Cannon we see the weapon quite simply level a mountain on an asteroid, like the whole mountain and create a substantial crater! that is more like 500 Gigatons of TNT or an ungodly amount of Joules. Photon Torpedoes and Quantum Torpedoes change yield depending on the scene as well, they are significantly more powerful than Phase Cannons, yet said to put a 'kilometre crater in an asteroid...' something we witnessed the Phase Cannons doing, so like I said inconsistent as hell!
Stargate is plagued by these continuity conundrums as well, so all I am getting at is, its not possible to compare two different universes when individually they are in internal turmoil with dramatically altering weapon power, defence power and such. even 'Canon' sources are contradicted by other 'Canon' sources, which are contradicted by Game/Film footage, see Star Wars, Star Trek and Stargate and they appear left right and centre. so I personally recommend we cut it out with the comparison threads, unless you can find some 'rock solid' foundation for comparison, otherwise its going to, like always end up in a massive flaming war.[/quote]
Which is why the logical approach SHOULD be (read: should ) to go with the highest canon source.
That'd be the Mass Effect Codex, the Star Wars movies, whatever 343i says for Halo, since in game depictions of technology is limited to whatever power the engine can depict, etc..
Though those above Halo inconsistancies are as follows: The MAC rounds in Reach are fired at low power to prevent collateral damage and the Covenant did not want to destroy the Pillar of Autumn, only disable it so as to question the crew. Again, they were firing on lower settings.
I don't delve deep enough into the Trek universe to understand their weapons though.
For example, people overestimate their universe's powers all the time. Krogan skin is not that tough, the Codex says they are killable with black powder weapons. None of Star Wars' weapons are close to being that powerful, the movies time and time again contradict this with literally every shot fired, and Elites' health cannot recharge in Halo.
Nothing that is in any of the Star Trek books is canon, only the movies and TV shows (people tend to use book quotes in arguments). Really Warhammer is the only consistently overpowered universe out there.[/quote]
I'm sorry...but George lucas is the ultimate master of Canon for Sw and he says everything he authorizes to be made under the Starwars banner is Considered the highest form of Canon unless deemed otherwise. Which means all forms of Canon count as the highest.
Mass effect...blah.
Halo....Lacks anything actually powerful that isn't a god race or the ultimate I lose button.
Warhammer...yeah...it just wrecks everyone's front yard up.[/quote]
Oh...You don't know of Star Wars' canon levels, do you?
In order from highest lowest
G-canon encompasses the movies (the ONE thing about Star Wars nobody knows about conveniantly in these debates)
T-canon encompasses all forms of television.
C-canon encompasses comics, videogames, books, etc.
I'll have to get back to you on what S-canon entails, I cant remember
and N-canon is all non-can material.
The higher up on this list you go, the stronger the canon.
A kiloton asteroid impact obliterated the bridge of a Star Destroyer in one of the movies (Empire Strikes back), while others caused some damage that had the Admiral of the fleet concerned on the Executor Super Star Destroyer, thusly flooring the power of their weapons and armor that Wars fans like to throw out.
Okay so does that mean we can only use the Hard canon for the Halo universe which means the games.
Plasma not melting faces, Marines taking down insane amount of Covenant warriors.
So you say 343i doesn't have it's levels of Canon? So if they don't does that mean 1337 is an actual Spartan?
Oh oh oh...what about Halo wars? The not so plot shielded forge beating the Arrogent Ripa?
Or are you saying bungie has no power and everything they've done is erased until 343i says otherwise and makes new content?
FYI. They needed to leave the Asteriod field because they needed to contact the Emperor. If you actually watched the movies closely. Derp.
Not to say Halo doesn't have its own canon levels
but you forgot the highest canon source: whatever 343i says on the subject, which includes necassary licensing regarding graphical limtations in games.
343's word>games>books>comics.
And I did listen to the movie, possibly a good 150 times.
Captain: "There's been no sightings of the Millenium Falcon, my lord, but considering the amount of damge we've sustained (referring to the Executor) they must've been destroyed."
Vader: "No Captain, they're alive; I want every ship available to sweep the asteroid field until they are found." (Captain walks off)
(Vader is approached by a COMS officer) "The Emperor wishes you make contact with him."
Vader: "Move the ship out of the asteroid field so we can get a clear transmission."
I never once said that they left the field to avoid more damage. I know why they left. I merely pointed out that the Captain of the supposed most powerful ship in the galaxy at that time was worried about asteroids. Besides, we quite clearly see an asteroid shatter the bridge of another Destroyer like it was glass. If their armor can tank gigatonnage blasts, why not kilotonnage asteroids?
If you had listened to the movie you'd know this. Derp.
No you also pointed out apparent fear which I did not see anywhere nor' took any note of.
I mean you do have to remember that Vader is rather intimidating as is the emperor.
Also if I do recall the asteriod hit the command center which would have destroyed the ship because the armor around the Command center is weaker generally and one would assume because the asteriods cause interference they would need additional power to go to the sensors. Also in other forms of canon which you disregaurd so Halo can win, The imperial Star Destroyer was the most flawed of all imperial warships which could have also played a factor, and not to mention that was the same fleet that would have been barraged by the Ion cannon moments before, ALso not to mention that Deflector shields can't take punishment from Mass Accelerator weaponary which one could argue asteroids may possess the same effect, but you wouldn't know that considering your extreame Bias towards Star Wars and your love of the movies in which the main characters are plot shielded like mad. Derp.