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  • Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?
Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?
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Sorry for grammer errors , English isn't my native language.

  • 06.12.2011 5:09 AM PDT

my goodness, why does nobody here understand what 'ablative armour' is...? the whole point is for the armour to 'vaporise' when its stuck by weapons fire, its the vaporisation process that removes the energy from the impact through phase change, similar to the process of refrigeration where a liquid is vaporised, removing thermal energy, then it is compressed back into a liquid and the process happens again and again. the ablative armour on federation ships is to protect the actual hull, by vaporising when struck by energy weapons, preventing the thermal energy from coming into contact with the hull directly, nothing at all to do with 'stopping' things. please read up on the process of ablation, that should clarify things.

also with regards to 'plasma is like 4,000*C which can melt anything...' this is true at the moment, no metal currently will survive those temperatures, only chances we would have against plasma is through ablation, which is exactly what armour on human ships is. it isn't intended to 'stop' plasma impact, just absorb the energy as best as possible. also plasma weapons have one absolutely fatal weakness, magnetism, plasma is highly ionised which is why it interacts with magnetic fields. shoot a 'bolt' of plasma at something that is strongly magnetic, chances are it will be unable to come into contact with the magnetised hull. that is the exact reason that plasma can be contained in the first place, so all the humans have to do is use magnetism and their ships become invulnerable to plasma weapons, it really is as simple as that.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 6:25 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 6:08 AM PDT

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

The Q from Star Trek or The First Ones from Babylon 5 would defeat The Precursors and The Forerunners.

  • 06.12.2011 6:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
my goodness, why does nobody here understand what 'ablative Armour' is...? the whole point is for the Armour to 'vaporize' when its stuck by weapons fire, its the vaporization process that removes the energy from the impact through phase change, similar to the process of refrigeration where a liquid is vaporized, removing thermal energy, then it is compressed back into a liquid and the process happens again and again. the ablative Armour on federation ships is to protect the actual hull, by vaporizing when struck by energy weapons, preventing the thermal energy from coming into contact with the hull directly, nothing at all to do with 'stopping' things. please read up on the process of ablation, that should clarify things.

also with regards to 'plasma is like 4,000*C which can melt anything...' this is true at the moment, no metal currently will survive those temperatures, only chances we would have against plasma is through ablation, which is exactly what Armour on human ships is. it isn't intended to 'stop' plasma impact, just absorb the energy as best as possible. also plasma weapons have one absolutely fatal weakness, magnetism, plasma is highly ionized which is why it interacts with magnetic fields. shoot a 'bolt' of plasma at something that is strongly magnetic, chances are it will be unable to come into contact with the magnetized hull. that is the exact reason that plasma can be contained in the first place, so all the humans have to do is use magnetism and their ships become invulnerable to plasma weapons, it really is as simple as that.


My bad, but it is right that ablative hull aren't designed to stop explosive ordances, right? Or, can even stop a MAC round?
Just asking.

And well, since if they even do magnetize their hull, I guess it'll make immune to plasma weapons but what about pulse lasers or energy projectors? Good example is that super cruiser fired blue-white beam, thin like needler beam in 100,000km away and burned through five UNSC ships?

  • 06.12.2011 6:34 AM PDT
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Download the Deep space nine episode "the way of the warrior" And you will have your answers about the ablative Armor.

fyi.. Raganok,
what happen to the star trek shields? why arnt you talking about the shieds? did you forget about the shields?

[Edited on 06.12.2011 6:46 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 6:43 AM PDT

indeed, ablation doesn't help against explosions, it works on thermal and thermal alone, the problem is explosions in space are thermal events. in atmosphere the majority of the damage is caused by over-pressure, which does more damage than the heat caused by the explosion. so in space ablative armour might help against explosions, at least to an extent, not so sure.

creating a magnetic 'shield' would indeed prevent plasma from coming into contact with the surface, as long as the field was tuned to repel it, magnetism works both ways so the last thing you'd want is to attract the plasma, would require some research.

magnetic 'shield' would do nothing against laser weapons, since they are electro-magnetic radiation, unaffected by magnetism. energy projectors, not sure, depends on how they work? if they use plasma then sure it can be repelled, but if its something else then possible not, depends if its charged. if they are just an 'overcharged' laser weapon then no, magnetism won't help.

also ablative armour wouldn't really offer any protection against kinetic weapons, it does to an extent but not to the extent of MAC, just too much kinetic energy involved and on such a small point. so federation armour is 'potentially' rather effective against thermal energy based weapons like plasma weapons or laser weapons but not so much against kinetic energy weapons. also since their ships are enveloped in a 'navigational deflector' they might be immune to plasma from the start, since that deflector is intended to protect the ship from fast moving particles and such as its moving through space by 'displacing' them, and since plasma is only a highly ionised particle it might not be able to break through the navigational deflector, and that isn't even taking the 'shield' into account. so starfleet ships are more resilient than most people give them credit for, since photon torpedoes are around ~60 megatons a piece (based on values mentioned in the series, like the amount of matter and anti-matter used!) and their shields are meant to be able to take multiple impacts before any risk of failure, if you take Star Trek technology and materials, convert them into something 'combat' orientated you could make some truly frightening ships, since they can make anti-matter without much trouble there is nothing stopping them putting hundreds of kilograms of anti-matter into warheads, which would be hundreds/thousands of megatons of TNT based on the mass - energy conversion laws, also totally in the realms of possibility as well.

  • 06.12.2011 6:50 AM PDT
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Based on your comments and my understanding, then MAC round or Archer Missiles would tear Ablative armor, causing major damages to any star ships. I'm not sure how Titanium-A Battle Plate fare against lasers, photon torpedoes, etc. Only thing for sure that it's highly resistant to heat, but not enough to counter the plasma weapons which in books stated that several salvo of plasma torpedoes melted section of Titanium-A Battle-plate of refit station, also caused vaporized clouds of Titanium-A as well. Also size of ships do play the part, since most largest star ship in the star fleet (federation) are barely 600m long, roughly larger than UNSC frigate. Larger ships such as Halycon-class, Marathon-class, Carriers, and Super Carrier which it has more thicker armor than most of star fleet (again, with speculation, I do not know how thick of their hull is on star trek star fleet)

Deflectors shields are different from energy shields (commonly labeled as ray shields). It is understandable that deflectors were designed to stop any laser-based attacks, also offer protection against photon and quantum torpedoes. Depends on their shield frequencies (allowing extent level of matter/laser/etc to pass through). It is believable that deflector shields can theoretically protect against hurling 600 ton slug, firepower of 64 kilotons of TNT. But I believe it can be overwhelmed if a MAC round were followed by hundreds of archer missiles (are estimated to have a kiloton of TNT for each warhead in each missiles). However, a MAC round can do serious damage against deflector shield, although. (I think so, due to certain properties and properties of MAC)

Energy projectors are actually energetic particle beam-based weaponry, I think. Based on the novel on the energy projectors and their capabilities such as glassing the planet, etc.

Yes, photon torpedoes are about 60 megaton of TNT, same thing as SHIVA Nuclear Warheads, FURY Nuclear Warheads, also HAVOK Nuclear Warheads too, and I think HORNET mines are 45 or above megaton of TNT too. What about NOVA nuclear warhead? To destroy the moon, obliterate entire fleet and scorch the planet in matter of seconds? Sounds like teraton range of firepower to me. (Not sure, Plutonium can correct me if it needed to be.)

  • 06.12.2011 7:39 AM PDT

Who cares?

  • 06.12.2011 7:44 AM PDT


Posted by: IXI ZeroExE IXI

Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: IXI ZeroExE IXI
Also, i might point out:

Someone mentioned that the flood have spores that once inhaled, can take over their host.



The BORG ASSIMILATE.
They would ASSIMILATE those flood SPORES, then ADAPT to the flood SPORES. Hence why, in star Trek, the BORG are the greatest Threat. They ADAPT to everything. they ASSIMILATE everything.

"we will add your BIOLOGICAL distinctiveness to our own"



EVEN MAC rounds OR PLASMA would be adapted to and ASSIMILATED to their SHIPS. They would USE the MACS agaisnt the UNSC (tho macs are inferior to the BORGS Weapons)

"we will add your TECHNOLOGICAL distinctiveness to our own"




Borg Assimilation is not perfect.

1) Not all weapons can be adapted (kinetics)

2) Not all biological creatures can be Assimilated (Species *insert number here*)

Borg Assimilation requires insertion of nanoprobes into the creature directly. The Flood Super Cell is designed to be perfect. It is infinitely adaptable and immune to outside attacks, as per the besterium.

As the Flood fall into both categories (kinetics and uncontrollable) they'd be the worst enemy the Borg have fought since Species *Number*. Except worse as, since the FSC is a mental connection to all Flood everywhere, the Gravemind would know everything about the Borg upon a single infection of their biological components



Actually, umm... the borg achieve perfection.
borg HAVE assimilated Species 8472 units into their collective.
They had a hard time adapting to the biological Weapon of their BATTLE SHIPS. but the queen herself said, even without Janeways assistance, eventually they would have.

Biological weapons on their space craft WAS an issue. But thanks to Janeway, she discovered a new weapon and, possible defense for the borg using the nanoprobes.

"Borg Assimilation requires insertion of nanoprobes"
FAIL
Go watch: Star trek voyager: End Game
Janeway infects borg with pathogen, Later in episode, Queen tells Janeway "I have assimilated your pathogen"
OH SNAP
how could that be?? but but.. you said they have to insert nano probes? OMG star trek is lying =O

Or you need to go watch star trek before refuting my claims ;)

Once again, the BORG would desecrate the Flood. Allow me to Play the scenerio:
Scenario:
*Borg cube arrives at installation.
Scans it.
Sends drones down to surface.
Drones get killed by flood, other drones adapt.
Flood attempt to infect drone
Borg assimilates flood, Nano's take over flood host.
Borg finds nothing useful of Flood.
Drones beam back to Cube
Cube locks weapons. Destroys ring. flood dead.*


how, would the borg lose to the flood?
even if the flood tried to infect a drone, once the drone is transported, the transporter buffer will filter out the spore
=O
pwned again.
LOL

this is why i hate "Versus" debates. they are opinionated, and people don't want to face facts. They will ignore invaluable info and make something up out of their @$$ to prove a point they believe is true.
When in actual fact, they shouldn't be refuting statements unless they actually have watched / played both THOROUGHLY.

And yes, you bet you @$$ i know alot about halo. hence i KNOW nothing in Halo could touch, pretty well anything in star trek.

maybe BSG would be a good match for halo ;)


This is one of the saddest things I've ever had the misfortune of reading. Not because I'm denying what you said is wrong (which some of it is) but rather because you felt it necassary to resort to belittling my own intelligence simply because I'm not really a big Trek fan, and thus only going off a few eopisodes, for the sake of your argument.

It shows weakness, fanboyism, and self-doubt in your own ability to defeat my arguments with nothing but facts. Pro-tip: never resort to personal insults and jabs when in a debate. It just makes you look like an ass.

Okay, so the Borg's Assimilation process is different then what I expected. Fair game. That does not diffuse the ever present fact of the Gravemind's eternal consciouss link to all Flood Super Cell's everywhere.

Lets say, theoretically, the assimilation worked on a Flood form. The FSC's have never proven to be capable of actually dying by any normal means; Cryptum even states "dead" Flood could still transmit the disease, so a host's condition and its own condition are seperate.

Either way, the Gravemind would know precisely what the Borg's "infection" is and would swiftly counter it. "Adapt" to it, so to speak.

Here's a few problems. Borg have biomass and biological components they canot survive without (First Contact). They also cannot adapt to kinetic attacks, only energy, this much I know, which is what the Flood use.

The Gravemind would try plasma, of course, and find it stopped working. He'd then start to build the FSC's to create specific long range and short range kinetic heavy hitters.

Another problem: Flood are laughably fast compared to the Borg. If it came to a ground operation, the Flood would decimate the Borg's zombies.

In space, things are different. If the Flood were using UNSC weapons, they'd stand a better chance then with Covenant weapons, which the only weapon that can go through an adapted shield they have would be an energy lance (laser, not a plasma).

If they had Forerunner weapons, the Borg are boned. They made ample use of pure light based weaponry. Technically, what it falls under--kinetic, or energy--is uncertain. Either way, a light weapon, being pure light, can bypass a shield considering normal light can indeed go through a shield. If it couldn't, I wouldn't otherwise be able to see the ship, only a shimmering field.

Now we get technical. This is also where you're wrong. Using a very handy yield calculator, we had calculated the strength of the PoA's detonation on Halo 04. It was set somewhere between several hundred terratons (almost just beneath 1 peta) and 10 petatons, depending entirely on whether or not Cryptum retconned the Ring's size (from 10,000- to 30,000 km in diameter).

This is based off of the proportional width of the Ring. As seen in Halo 2's flashback, the explosion was 5 times the Ring's width.

This, however, made only a 5 kilometer crater in the Ring's adamantium armor, as per "The Flood" book. so about 900 terratons to 10 petatons depending on what the size was, only made a 5 kilometer dent in the Forerunner armor. And this didn't even destroy the Ring. What did was the Ring's own centrifuges turning on its self from getting knocked around and being partially damaged on one side.

In Cryptum, two Rings, these ones 30,000 kilometers in diameter, were destroyed by Forerunners hard light beams, cutting vast canyons into the adamantium surface, blowing mountains off the Ring and all. The Ring's were destroyed by pure brute force here, (the first one was anyway, the second went in the same manner as Halo 04).

Anyway, so that would mean the Forerunners' ships were several hundred terratons to at least ten petatons of power per shot. How exactley would the Borg destroy the Ring again?

Or the Flood using Forerunner tech? Or do I need to remind you of what happens to people fighting Forerunner tech?

And you know what? The ever present factor that the Gravemind can not permanently be killed, only laid dormant.

You don't know anything about Halo at all, do you?

  • 06.12.2011 8:08 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact

The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.

  • 06.12.2011 8:22 AM PDT


Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.


The Federation isn't a military so much as it is a "peace keeping and humaniterian armada" with guns. They play defensively, not offensively, and are basically a glorified security force that has only ever fought one large scale war.

On a foot soldiering level, Halo almost always wins, thanks to the Forerunners(which translates to space combat as well). No different with Trek, until the Q get involved.

  • 06.12.2011 8:29 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.


The Federation isn't a military so much as it is a "peace keeping and humaniterian armada" with guns. They play defensively, not offensively, and are basically a glorified security force that has only ever fought one large scale war.

On a foot soldiering level, Halo almost always wins, thanks to the Forerunners(which translates to space combat as well). No different with Trek, until the Q get involved.


Then their worsest nightmare would be facing a true military like the UNSC,i'll just ignore the agressive warrior servants ;)

  • 06.12.2011 8:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.


Star Trek's photon torpedoes/Quantum Torpedoes generate about 50 to 65 megatons of TNT, stated by Plutonium. Phasers and Lasers can be estimated to be up to kilotons of TNT since they don't do much damage on deflectors shields.

I'll look up any website that shows actual tech specs on firepower of star trek.

While I'll agree that Halo Universe (especially Flood, Forerunners and probably UNSC) can trump Star Trek unless Q comes up and also can beat ME too but, to Star wars? Not sure but, Forerunners/Flood would win to due to insane amount of fire power... several hundred of teratons to ten peratons is like, a hundred times more powerful than any star wars can utilize, exempt from Death Star and Sun Crusher.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 8:40 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 8:37 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.


Star Trek's photon torpedoes/Quantum Torpedoes generate about 50 to 65 megatons of TNT, stated by Plutonium. Phasers and Lasers can be estimated to be up to kilotons of TNT since they don't do much damage on deflectors shields.

I'll look up any website that shows actual tech specs on firepower of star trek.


Okay thanks.

  • 06.12.2011 8:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.


Star Trek's photon torpedoes/Quantum Torpedoes generate about 50 to 65 megatons of TNT, stated by Plutonium. Phasers and Lasers can be estimated to be up to kilotons of TNT since they don't do much damage on deflectors shields.

I'll look up any website that shows actual tech specs on firepower of star trek.


Okay thanks.



I tried my best to find most reliable site but this link will do for now.

Star Trek

Just type Phasers, Photon Torpedoes, etc.

Funny thing is that Forerunner's weapons capable of generating about several hundred teratons of TNT to 10 peratons of TNT is too powerful for any star trek to withstand, it'd be instantly destroyed in matter of seconds. Why, a Forerunner Warship being 30km long, have different types of weapons and really destroyed the Halo is actual point defense guns, not main guns. I can assume that point defense guns generate several hundred teratons of TNT to 10 peratons of TNT. Imagine how much firepower would be generated by MAIN GUNS such as energy beam, light-like projectile cannons, etc... Holy crap, almost all universe have no chance against Forerunner's technology... 0.0

  • 06.12.2011 8:53 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.


Star Trek's photon torpedoes/Quantum Torpedoes generate about 50 to 65 megatons of TNT, stated by Plutonium. Phasers and Lasers can be estimated to be up to kilotons of TNT since they don't do much damage on deflectors shields.

I'll look up any website that shows actual tech specs on firepower of star trek.


Okay thanks.



I tried my best to find most reliable site but this link will do for now.

Star Trek

Just type Phasers, Photon Torpedoes, etc.

Funny thing is that Forerunner's weapons capable of generating about several hundred teratons of TNT to 10 peratons of TNT is too powerful for any star trek to withstand, it'd be instantly destroyed in matter of seconds. Why, a Forerunner Warship being 30km long, have different types of weapons and really destroyed the Halo is actual point defense guns, not main guns. I can assume that point defense guns generate several hundred teratons of TNT to 10 peratons of TNT. Imagine how much firepower would be generated by MAIN GUNS such as energy beam, light-like projectile cannons, etc... Holy crap, almost all universe have no chance against Forerunner's technology... 0.0


I found a few more site:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/


http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html

Those high teraton-low petaton is an estimation of the autumns yield.And we know the FR navy weapon firepower exceed the autumns explosion yield.So it's even larger.

The 4runners are indeed more powerful then other empires but races like the xeelee or timelords would beat the 4runners.

  • 06.12.2011 9:05 AM PDT
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Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: hotshot revan II
The Forerunners would solo the entire Trek verse alone,unless the Q gets involved.

@Trekfan

How about you give some stats on Trek firepower instead of -blam!-ing?So we can compare.

I remember that one of the Trek factions had a military worse then ours,idiots runnig around in pyjamas.[/quote]

Star Trek's photon torpedoes/Quantum Torpedoes generate about 50 to 65 megatons of TNT, stated by Plutonium. Phasers and Lasers can be estimated to be up to kilotons of TNT since they don't do much damage on deflectors shields.

I'll look up any website that shows actual tech specs on firepower of star trek. [/quote]

Okay thanks.



I tried my best to find most reliable site but this link will do for now.

Star Trek

Just type Phasers, Photon Torpedoes, etc.

Funny thing is that Forerunner's weapons capable of generating about several hundred teratons of TNT to 10 peratons of TNT is too powerful for any star trek to withstand, it'd be instantly destroyed in matter of seconds. Why, a Forerunner Warship being 30km long, have different types of weapons and really destroyed the Halo is actual point defense guns, not main guns. I can assume that point defense guns generate several hundred teratons of TNT to 10 peratons of TNT. Imagine how much firepower would be generated by MAIN GUNS such as energy beam, light-like projectile cannons, etc... Holy crap, almost all universe have no chance against Forerunner's technology... 0.0


I found a few more site:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/


http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html

Those high teraton-low petaton is an estimation of the autumns yield.And we know the FR navy weapon firepower exceed the autumns explosion yield.So it's even larger.

The 4runners are indeed more powerful then other empires but races like the xeelee or timelords would beat the 4runners.


Well, well... this guy Zero's arguments of star trek pwning the halo universe already have been trumped as long we use Flood or Forerunners. Borgs have absolutely no defense against over several hundred teratons of TNT to ten peratons of TNT of Forerunners weapons.

Do Borgs can adapt to light-based weapons? Probably not, since we never seen star trek using light-based weapon technology or even neural-based weapon technology. It's possible that Borgs never even encountered any species with light-based or neural-based technology.

Well, borgs claimed to be 2.5 million of ships, while Forerunner navy numbers in trillions.

  • 06.12.2011 10:14 AM PDT
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@ ROBERTO jh

OK:

first: i never directly insulted you, or name called you. if you felt i was, i apologize to you.

Second: you are debating with me tho admitting you know nothing of star trek? Thats incredibly annoying. you dont debate, you ASK me and i explain about the borg. Dont make stupid claims like "kinetic energy borg cannot adapt to" when NO WHERE in star trek does it say they cant.

Third: "It shows weakness, fanboyism, and self-doubt in your own ability to defeat my arguments with nothing but facts"
Its not weakness, its me DOING MY HOMEWORK before making an @$$ of myslef making false claims based on opinions.
Im not trying to win an argument, im PRESENTING FACTS to you so you can gain an understanding and not be ignorant.

You clearly know NOTHING about he Borg. So im happy to present to you how they operate so you can understand WHY the Borg are the greatest threat in ANY scifi.

The OP's post is that the flood are unbeatable. He is Wrong. The Borg are considerably, as well, ZERG from star craft, a HUGE threat and likely would dominate the flood.

So allow me to fill you in on HOW the borg operate, then you can draw your own conclsuion.


THE BORG:

the borg originated as a robotic species. They have Evolved, (long story, if you want to explain, just ask) to this species who ASSIMILATES into their collective to achieve perfection.
THE BORG have currently Assimilated THOUSANDS of species into their collective. They Dwell in the Delta quadrant, And currently have 2.5 MILLION WARSHIPS at their command.

NANO'S
The BORG use something called nano probes. they are cell sized metal based machines that ATTACK as well ADAPT TO ATTACKS to assimilate. They entire your system Via Drone and begin to take over. Being capable of learning and adapting to attacks, they as well assimilate those attacks to their own.
So essentially, What a flood would use to fight off the nano probes, the probes adapt, become immune, then USE those attacks to defeat the floods defense. Hence, Flood would be assimilated. Being made of metal, those nanos are NOT easily destroyed by organic cells =) SOO many advantages, its disgusting.

INFANTRY
The borg have a QUEEN who telepathically (like gravemind) Runs the show. She knows the location of EVERY DRONE And is the conscious of the Borg.
In a Battle Fleet, there is a Queen on the field to assist in battle.
The QUEEN can detect Gravemind, and BLOCK him from accessing BORG. She is the CONSCIOUS of the Borg and has ASSIMILATED Telepathic Aliens and thus has the ability now. So Gravemind would be totally USELESS as long as the Queen is perched on her chair, at home, in the Delta Quadrant, Surrounded by Tactical cubes and tons of weapons. =)
The Drones are each equipped with personal SHIELDS and CAN adapt to Kinetic energy, as seen on TNG. Warfs PHYSICAL attacks proved useless to the Drones, however, his sharp BLADE at times was able to penetrate. Being made of metal, and flood being made of organic tissue, the borg are at a significant advantage to taking hits. They are incredibly durable, and one strike they can remove any limb.

How many Drones are there?

There is 2.5 Million Cubes. Each Cube contains 64, 000 Drones. Multiply that by the number of cubes, and you are in the Tens of Trillions.

BORG SHIPS:
Borg have again, as last noted, 2.5 million. By now, being later advanced in the story, they are likely back up to over 3 million.
DEFENSE:
Borg use Four pieces for defense. SHIELDS, Armor, Regeneration and Adaption.
Once damage is dealt to the cube, It will analize the material used (even if cube is destoryed) and the borg WILL assimilate it. The assimilation is the put forth to the shields, and that material once fire again, WILL DO ZERO DAMAGE to the cube. I know that hard to understand, But essentially that how the cubes operate. Even if the strength of the weapon is TRILLIONS jouls of TNT, it will do ZERO damage once adapted to (usually after first couple shots)

BORG ships are not made of weak earth metals. For example. The enterprises hull is made of TRItanium, which is 10X more stronger than Titanium. Borg Ships, are made of a unique metal which can handle EXTREME heat temperature such as the surface of the sun. So weather or NOT plasma will even damage the hull, is still debatable.
As far as Kinnetic weapons, SHIP SHIELDs block physical weapons. MAC rounds WILL contact the CUBES shield, and again, after determine the impact, the CUBE will ADAPT, so the next shot will not work. this is SEEN on voyager, when voyager is RAMMED by a shuttle, and the shuttle EXPLODED on impact with Voyagers shields.
All shield in Star Trek operate in this fashion.

SO AGAIN DONT SAY KINETIC WEAPONS BORG CANNOT ADAPT TO cause that is FALSE and i will get annoyed. Star ship shield BLOCK KINETIC ENERGY so MACS are uselss against Federation, Borg, Klingon, Romulan, what ever.
Espcecially since they can take the impact of matter / anti matter explosions.

REGENERATION:
the cubes actually REGENERATE their HULL after being bashed off. Sounds extreme eh? But they LITERALLY GROW METAL. Im not joking.
A cube Can continue to function even after 78% of its hull is destroyed.
All 6 sides of the cubes are Loaded with MULTIPLE torpedoes and Borg beam weapons. the cube can fire from all at once, and rotate wile firing. Despite star trek Games, Cubes are actually highly maneuverable.

TECHNOLOGY:
the BORG have assimilated THOUSANDs of species, they have THOUSANDS of alien Biological unique abilities including natural organic defenses in their system from the unique aliens, unique telepathic abilities, and unique physical strength. 1 Drone can physically overpower an ELITE. They are brute strength.

  • 06.12.2011 10:19 AM PDT
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The borg also gained Tech attributes, such as weapons, shields, metals, gadgets, everything you can think of that other species have had.
If the BORG came into contact with Forerunner technology, they would ASSIMILATE it, then use it AGAINST everyone in Halo.
They WILL assimilate covie tech, UNSC tech, they can even assimilate the MACS and use them against the unsc. they can assimilate the plasma beams once they hit the cubes and use them against the CCS. Tho again, they wouldnt need to since BORG CUBE weapons would DEVESTATE the SHIELDLESS human ships, and crack the covies shields in less then 3 seconds of multiple weapons fire.

Also being having forerunner assmilated into the collective LOL they would use the forerunner too.

Having 2.5 million Cubes, they would more than Last long enough, and assimilate, and annihilate the Entire halo universe, and still have 2 million ships left.

Heck, if they wanted to, they could WARP collide their ships into the Halo ships, destroying them (given the BRUTE hull strength of a cube + its mass and size) 1 for 1 suicide, the borg would lose 8 thousand out of... 2.5 million.

NO MATTER What the tactic, borg cannot possibly lose. they Just cant. Even suicide ramming they out number 2.5 MILLION to 8 thousand.

AND YES the Borg HAVE resorted to suicide ramming, as seen on Voyager.

Please dont go refuting me, rather if you dont know about the borg, just ask.

Peace.

  • 06.12.2011 10:35 AM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

Actually, no.

Deflectors shields and ablative armor aren't designed to withstand high-explosive ordinances and kinetic energy which a MAC round would dissipate the shields then use archer missiles to tear the hull apart since each archer missile consist of a kiloton of TNT.

And like i said, BORG cannot adapt to kinetic energy for a reason: Lack of ever-changing frequency. And, you do realize that Borg needs biological compounds to survive? And You forget again, it's proved too many times that Flood is PERFECT biology, designed to WIPE OUT any species, it can be including your beloved Borgs. NO matter what Borgs can develop to combat against the Flood, it'll be still virtually useless because it's perfect biology! Not mention that if Flood learns if using plasma weaponry was useless against that because your beloved BORG only can adapt to energy-based weaponry, which it would resort to MACs or Light/Neural based Forerunner Weapons. Forerunner's weapons is FAR more powerful than any BORGs can dream of. I have calculated their shield strength and their incapability of adapting to kinetic energy and possibly light-based/neural-based weaponry, it won't held well against several hits of MACs or a single bolt from Forerunners weapons (Because there is no proven that any deflector shields being capable to withstanding over several hundred of teratons of TNT to ten peratons of TNT...)

And not mention that any electromagnetic weapons can wreck the deflectors shields easily and make easy target for any explosive/kinetic weapons to rip the ablative armor (Star Fleet).

All right, ok. So if you're referring that 2.5 million CUBEs, and can ram anything? Ok. Let's see if a mere CUBE is capable of causing a dent in Forerunner armor... oh wait, nope! Because Borgs aren't capable of possessing high teratons to low peratons to even dent a 5 kilometers long dent on Forerunner armor... and fight against trillions of Forerunner warships... too much for even BORG to handle.

I am sorry but, I'll say that Flood, UNSC and Forerunners wins against Star Trek unless you bring The Q Continuum up to this debate...

[Edited on 06.12.2011 11:07 AM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 11:04 AM PDT

The Borg could adapt to pure projectile weapons only with more armor. They cannot become immune to it due to the fact the bullet has no energy like a phaser or disruptor would.

  • 06.12.2011 11:07 AM PDT

Right this is going to be a long, long, long post so bare with me please, some Star Trek universe related posts:

1) The drones shot in First Contact were standard, assimilation drones, the Borg have access to 'Tactical' drones mentioned a number of times on Voyager with superior combat abilities, with Borg technology would guess these are rather tough drones that are intended for defence of Cubes or shock-troopers in boarding actions, also shields offer no protection against Borg transporter technology, so Covenant cruiser, just transport 25,000 drones onto it and be done with it, assimilate the cruiser and the Covenant are done, their biological and technological are added to the collective, no longer a threat.

2) 100% sure that Federation materials are highly resistant to plasma, a number of occasions E.P.S (Electro-Plasma System) conduits have exploded flooding an area with lethal plasma, the people in the area are killed but the integrity of the corridor walls is not breached, also the doors have been shown to withstand plasma exposure as well and the outer hull is significantly tougher than the corridors.

3) Federation ships are significantly faster than any ships in the Halo universe, even something the size of a Sovereign (one of the biggest Federation ships at around 700 metres) would run rings around even a human Frigate, a shot from the MAC would never, ever be on the cards since the ship has face the target. Also if Phasers burn through the materials used on Federation ships without much trouble they'll effortlessly slice clean through Titanium with little resistance, so fair enough they don't pack much 'energy' but the fact they almost out-right bypass the defences makes that point irrelevant more or less. Hell would be willing to say a Defiant class would be highly effective against human and Covenant ships alike due to their speed and agility, as well as packing serious armament.

4) There are numerous torpedoes in the Federation 'armoury' in Star Trek universe, ranging from Photon to the exotic Phase torpedoes which range in effect. Phase torpedoes for example ignore defences using phase technology, so shields and armour are irrelevant, won't make a difference whether the human ship has two metres or fifty metres of Titanium armour it won't help regardless. A single Phase torpedo would junk a Marathon class, a Covenant Cruiser, heck most things without a doubt, that is a single torpedo for a Covenant capital ship. Human ships will just be ripped to pieces by Photon and Quantum torpedoes, hell phasers would do the trick, humans or Covenant have no hope. Then we get into the realms of the monstrous Tri-Cobalt weapons which are subspace torpedoes, one of the most powerful weapons used in the Star Trek universe, these however are not standard.

5) Back to the Borg Collective, their ships are fast, fast indeed. can cross the distance from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant in almost no time at all (70,000 Light Years!) which would let them get to almost any target with absolutely no warning, just appearing, attacking, disappearing. Would also be willing to guess Borg ships are equally or more resistant to plasma than Federation ships, since Borg ships are on average more resilient, also with their advanced transporters would make them a rather feared opponent, even if a SPARTAN-II kills couple hundred drones, that is nothing to them, not even a droplet in the ocean and all the time would be learning and adapting, until the inevitable conclusion of either he/she is overwhelmed or the Cube simply locks onto the SPARTAN and transports them into space, rendering them useless and dead.

6) Phasers would render things like Longsword Bombers, Seraphs and such worthless since they offer more or less complete spherical coverage and should be incredibly accurate due to the fact they are beams travelling at the speed of light, at close range missing is almost impossible!

That is just a couple of things I would like to add at this time for the Star Trek side of the debate, think of something like an Akira class battle-cruiser from Star Trek engaging some human ships from the Halo universe, the fellow who designed the ship claims it was armed with fifteen torpedo launchers and an absolute stack of torpedoes, remember in First Contact when the Enterprise fires four torpedoes in around a second? Know so many on here 'frown' at such 'tiny' yields as ~64 megatons, but keep in mind the Tsar Bomb could destroy an area similar to Paris, four torpedoes a second with more power than that bomb (entirely possible based on the figures given and matter > energy conversion rules) that could be a continent levelled in a couple of seconds from significant range, Trafalgar would be eaten, absolutely eaten by that amount of fire, Autumn would just crumble, Marathons would crumble, nothing in the human inventory could survive even ONE! of those torpedoes, never mind four a second from lets guess ~8 forward launchers. Most awesome thing is, it is potentially possible to create such a warhead using matter/anti-matter so its not 'fantasy' like most of the Star Wars stuff giving it more credibility. Would love to see Star Trek made more serious, don't believe in the whole Ideological Federation society, because it doesn't work!

  • 06.13.2011 1:26 PM PDT


Posted by: Ktan Dantaktee
Seriously, its always "Death Star and Star Forge!" or "Reapers would destroy The Flood!" Its like people forget just how powerful the Halo universe truly is. There are two reasons Halo will NEVER be beaten by another media series like Mass Effect or Star Wars or ANYTHING. Those are The Flood and the Precursors. The Flood probably obey the Precursors due to them being their masters, which means they would be using superior tactics compared to just rushing everything. As for the Precursors, they have space stations and ships that make the Death Star or Reaper Ships look like over-sized squirt guns.


They're advanced minds would probably bd immune to indoctrination, as would The Flood as they truly don't even HAVE minds, they're all connected to the Gravemind. They have weaponry that dwarfs that of the Forerunners, and combining their arsenal with the Flood would utterly dominate anything the Star Wars universe could throw at them. With enhancements and weaponry provided to them by the Precursors, they would infect entire planets, and with each one they grow more powerful. They have Pure Forms bigger than the Juggernaut, and God help ME and SW should the Gravemind somehow connect with the Force.


And to those who might bring up the incredibly powerful weapons Star Wars has, Precursor frigates are equipped with such things standard. A single Precursor could probably destroy any Jedi or Sith in close quarters, with their advanced armor and their probably many CQC weapons. If the Forerunners had weaponry similar to the Energy Sword and Gravity Hammer, imagine what the Precursors had. Precursor ships are armed to the teeth with plasma, slipstream space, energy, ballistic, and laser weapon systems, not to mention how many freaking missiles they had that dwarfed even the NOVA nuclear bomb.

TL;DR

Mass Effect, Star Wars, etc. would have their asses handed to them by the Precursors and the Flood. Please keep discussion civil and non-flaming.

um, can u tell me where you read about the precursors? i have read the first forerunner book, and it said nothing about their weapons or controlling the flood. The most memorible thing i read was, the precurors looked like sea serpents or scorpians( i forgot so don't flame me). Also, i'm not trying to flame anyone.

  • 06.13.2011 1:38 PM PDT

Also before I forget, the Forerunner argument is potentially flawed, the assumption that their weapons are 'at least' as powerful as the Autumn reactor detonation is flawed. Give me time to explain how this conclusion was made, everyone is utterly obsessed with the application of unreasonable amounts of energy in these respective universe (except Star Trek to its credit!).

The Autumn's reactor overload was indeed a cataclysmic explosion, without doubt in the region of thousands of megatons of TNT. But, and its a big but it is simple to destroy a Halo, due to the fact that due to their structural nature (a ring) is hugely flawed. Lets imagine a ring is build, from something structurally solid, sure you could chuck a load of explosives on it and blow a section out which would compromise the entire structure resulting in its destruction. However, this is the argument I am putting forth, it is also simple to take a section out of the ring with far far far less 'energy' than using the explosives, put a much smaller amount of explosives on the same ring structure, but arranged in such a formation to direct the blast energy into the structure, like a knife and you attain the exact same results with substantially less overall power consumed. There is nothing to suggest that the weapons used by the Forerunner are 'that' powerful, just that the weapons make much better use of 'applied forces' than just outright force. I can lift a one metric ton car off the ground, but I cannot actually lift a ton, how? the clever application of the forces I can develop, leverage and such likes.

Finishing that 'small' addition I cannot fathom why so many obviously 'pointless' yields are being thrown around in these arguments all the time, 'turbo-lasers' and their impossible levels of power, Forerunners and their 'preposterous' weapons. Whatever happened to the clever application of science to get the maximum possible results out of the smallest possible amount of power? Seems as though everyone is 'energy obsessed'!

  • 06.13.2011 1:39 PM PDT
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship


Posted by: lord of dahorde
The First Ones from Babylon 5 would defeat The Forerunners.

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN THERE IS NO PRECEDENT FOR THIS KIND OF WANK WTF IS HAPPENING HERE

My God, what are you on? The Forerunners would curbstomp the entire B5 canon, probably without losing a ship. If they do lose a ship, it would be one of their small scout ships. It's sad.

  • 06.14.2011 1:46 AM PDT