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This topic has moved here: Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?
  • Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?
Subject: Am I the only one tired of people saying ME or SW would destroy Halo?

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.

This thread has been pointless

  • 06.14.2011 8:42 AM PDT
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Time to get a drink and watch the world burn. Or deal with it.

The flood consumes all. A small amount could infect and kill millions, even in a primal state. Star war's jedi could not hold up an onslaught of hundreds of former clones and other allies. Given most species in star wars are humanoid and human sized, making them prime canidates for infection. And, Clone and stormtrooper armor is fricken PLASTIC. Like that will stop a creature that almost infected the cheif. He almost died to the flood on numerous occasions. And the jedi, due to physics, could not survive at all. At, least the force and lightsabers could not. The force is a skill that would be impossible in real life, under normal circumstances. Lightsabers are powered by plasma directed by mirrors, which is impossible. Mirrors reflect light. Another problem is the excess heat melting hands. Mass effect i don't know much about, however.

  • 06.14.2011 9:56 AM PDT

If I may point out.

Melee attacks are kinetic. When the borg fully adapted to the phasers in First Contact, what does Picard say "Go to hand to hand combat!" Bullets are pure kinetics force as well.

As for the phasers being in a near 360% coverage and incredibly accurate... We've seen them miss many times in star trek. In DS9 a Klingon battleship couldn't hit the defiant (bigger then the Falcon from Star Wars I believe) and it was flying close. We see the station's phasers miss Dominion ships a fair amount as well.

Now true, getting hit by the phaser would take out the fightercraft instantly (from halo), but it's a key about hitting the fast moving, small objects. (Didn't Galor class cruisers have trouble hitting the federation fighters?)

Edit: Phasers would be effective at a certain range, once the fighters are inside of they they can't be targeted.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 10:39 AM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 10:17 AM PDT

that sort of thing is the exact reason I said it is a pointless debate, because so often this sort of thing happens in science fiction where something (phaser) moving at the speed of light can somehow miss a ship that is hundred and fifty metres long at close range, in modern navies point defence weapons can identify, track and engage incoming enemy missiles with reasonable results, that is the sort of thing that annoys me as a passionate science fiction fan.

Mister J.J did a decent job of fixing a couple of these annoying things in his re-imagined Star Trek but still left a lot of them present which was a bit of a let down. However things he fixed were the likes of where are shuttle craft stored? he had them stored in 'tiered' hangers with lines of bays on each side, couple high so one could fit numerous craft. That was one of the most stupid things in Voyager, where the Delta Flyer was actually bigger than the bay door was, and when they are building the thing the bay is enormous, much much bigger than its actual size, scale issues are an utter plague!

Other things he did a great job of fixing, weapons were turreted instead of just appearing from weird strips and such, Warp Drive has no 'dodgy' stretching thing going on, the ship is just there one moment, gone the next, that was much better! the interior design for the most part had more 'engineering' roots which was great considering it has never been down that path before, the internal structural beams and such were great.

Star Trek: Enterprise went to work defeating some of these odd science fiction happenings as well, again mounting their phasers on turrets and torpedoes were more like missiles than just random glowing orbs, it had armour rather than shields the shuttle bay never randomly changes size of shape depending on the episode, so I think the problem with Star Trek is its not taken as a 'hard science fiction' which it should become...!

  • 06.14.2011 1:11 PM PDT

Star Trek's faults came from technobabble and being inconsistent.

As for the JJ phasers, those were turrets, not beam arrays. Overall worked much better as they could easily act as point defense weapons, something NEVER seen in star trek before :D.

  • 06.14.2011 4:15 PM PDT
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And thats part of it.

Star trek tends to stick to a Real physics based system.

Compare Sci Fi VS doesn't work well because each universe is too different. They have their own laws. Same reason you cant compare Marvel VS DC. It just doesn't work.

HOWEVER... for the sake of the argument..

the common failure here, is to breakdown and analyze each sides strengths.
MAGIC attacks in RPG terms.

for example, What is stopping the federation from Transporting a LIVE torpedo to the UNSC ships engineering?
also, you think Covie shieled will stop that? According to halos universe, there no law against that. As well, Ever heard of INVASIVE transporters?

Also factor In:
Torpedoes launched from Federation ships, are launched at WARP 1. Google it. Which i believe will cause huge kinnetic damage + the torpedoes yield. By that means, a single photon will blow through any UNSC ship and cause destruction.

Also factor in:
Star trek ships actually have an incredible firing range. Cardassian Galor class alone can fire up to 300, 000 kilometers away, placing it safely out of opponents target range.
The enterprise could target lock the covie/unsc and literally fire at warp 1, and hit their ships before they even detect it. firing both Phasers and torpedoes at this range.

And if the unsc try to jump in (which i believe takes time) then enterprise could just warp away in less than 10 seconds putting some safe distance and blow up some more ships before the unsc are able to jump again.

ALSO factor in:
Point defense phasers. Very comon in star trek, these phasers can auto lock, and fire at torpedoes traveling warp 1 (faster than light, 282, 000 KM/per second)

Also Factor in:
They could just beam the unsc crew into space with heir long range transporters LMFAO and watch captain Keys scream "nooo saaaave me master chief"

Also factor in:
Titanium A grade is CHILDS PLAY to star treks TRI-Tanium, which star fleet ships are made out of. Go research that. ;)

Also factor in:
Star ships can use tractor beams, and go into enemy blind spots and use tractors to hold them.

Also factor in:
Warp drive. Picard maneuver. Google it.

Theres alot of crap to factor, and im sure halo univers has ITS own Magic attacks too. At the end of the day, its best to agree to disagree.

...

  • 06.14.2011 9:53 PM PDT

In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not winced nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance, my head is bloody but unbowed. - From Invictus

Not every SW fan says that. But Jedi vs. Precursor, I say Jedi. He knows what your gonna do before you do it. Halo and Star Wars rock!!

  • 06.14.2011 10:07 PM PDT
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Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
Right this is going to be a long, long, long post so bare with me please, some Star Trek universe related posts:

1) The drones shot in First Contact were standard, assimilation drones, the Borg have access to 'Tactical' drones mentioned a number of times on Voyager with superior combat abilities, with Borg technology would guess these are rather tough drones that are intended for defence of Cubes or shock-troopers in boarding actions, also shields offer no protection against Borg transporter technology, so Covenant cruiser, just transport 25,000 drones onto it and be done with it, assimilate the cruiser and the Covenant are done, their biological and technological are added to the collective, no longer a threat.

2) 100% sure that Federation materials are highly resistant to plasma, a number of occasions E.P.S (Electro-Plasma System) conduits have exploded flooding an area with lethal plasma, the people in the area are killed but the integrity of the corridor walls is not breached, also the doors have been shown to withstand plasma exposure as well and the outer hull is significantly tougher than the corridors.

3) Federation ships are significantly faster than any ships in the Halo universe, even something the size of a Sovereign (one of the biggest Federation ships at around 700 metres) would run rings around even a human Frigate, a shot from the MAC would never, ever be on the cards since the ship has face the target. Also if Phasers burn through the materials used on Federation ships without much trouble they'll effortlessly slice clean through Titanium with little resistance, so fair enough they don't pack much 'energy' but the fact they almost out-right bypass the defences makes that point irrelevant more or less. Hell would be willing to say a Defiant class would be highly effective against human and Covenant ships alike due to their speed and agility, as well as packing serious armament.

4) There are numerous torpedoes in the Federation 'armoury' in Star Trek universe, ranging from Photon to the exotic Phase torpedoes which range in effect. Phase torpedoes for example ignore defences using phase technology, so shields and armour are irrelevant, won't make a difference whether the human ship has two metres or fifty metres of Titanium armour it won't help regardless. A single Phase torpedo would junk a Marathon class, a Covenant Cruiser, heck most things without a doubt, that is a single torpedo for a Covenant capital ship. Human ships will just be ripped to pieces by Photon and Quantum torpedoes, hell phasers would do the trick, humans or Covenant have no hope. Then we get into the realms of the monstrous Tri-Cobalt weapons which are subspace torpedoes, one of the most powerful weapons used in the Star Trek universe, these however are not standard.

5) Back to the Borg Collective, their ships are fast, fast indeed. can cross the distance from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant in almost no time at all (70,000 Light Years!) which would let them get to almost any target with absolutely no warning, just appearing, attacking, disappearing. Would also be willing to guess Borg ships are equally or more resistant to plasma than Federation ships, since Borg ships are on average more resilient, also with their advanced transporters would make them a rather feared opponent, even if a SPARTAN-II kills couple hundred drones, that is nothing to them, not even a droplet in the ocean and all the time would be learning and adapting, until the inevitable conclusion of either he/she is overwhelmed or the Cube simply locks onto the SPARTAN and transports them into space, rendering them useless and dead.

6) Phasers would render things like Longsword Bombers, Seraphs and such worthless since they offer more or less complete spherical coverage and should be incredibly accurate due to the fact they are beams travelling at the speed of light, at close range missing is almost impossible!

That is just a couple of things I would like to add at this time for the Star Trek side of the debate, think of something like an Akira class battle-cruiser from Star Trek engaging some human ships from the Halo universe, the fellow who designed the ship claims it was armed with fifteen torpedo launchers and an absolute stack of torpedoes, remember in First Contact when the Enterprise fires four torpedoes in around a second? Know so many on here 'frown' at such 'tiny' yields as ~64 megatons, but keep in mind the Tsar Bomb could destroy an area similar to Paris, four torpedoes a second with more power than that bomb (entirely possible based on the figures given and matter > energy conversion rules) that could be a continent levelled in a couple of seconds from significant range, Trafalgar would be eaten, absolutely eaten by that amount of fire, Autumn would just crumble, Marathons would crumble, nothing in the human inventory could survive even ONE! of those torpedoes, never mind four a second from lets guess ~8 forward launchers. Most awesome thing is, it is potentially possible to create such a warhead using matter/anti-matter so its not 'fantasy' like most of the Star Wars stuff giving it more credibility. Would love to see Star Trek made more serious, don't believe in the whole Ideological Federation society, because it doesn't work!


i Just read your post...
...
=O

You are awesome. THANK YOU!
I couldnt have broken it down better myself.

theres just millions of options in the Trek universe, Making it well balanced for any sci fi comparison, tho i believe sci fi universes operate on different laws.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 10:16 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 10:14 PM PDT

So, everyone is having problems with the probablys. Well all those probablys are true. And i can give evidence to any questions. BUT, one thing is that Precursors are all dead exept one (According to what we know.). Second the energy swords and Grav Hams and all that is just a failure covy version of Forunner Tech and, Forunner Tech is just a failure version of Precursor Tech. The Precursors had had control of the Flood also. i would say Halo beets anything. PM me with something that would pwn halo and I can bet I could beet it.

  • 06.14.2011 10:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Star Trek's faults came from technobabble and being inconsistent.

As for the JJ phasers, those were turrets, not beam arrays. Overall worked much better as they could easily act as point defense weapons, something NEVER seen in star trek before :D.


I dont mean to be rude...

"act as point defense weapons, something NEVER seen in star trek before :D"

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Point_defense_phaser
^^ Point defense phaser on a Nebula Class... =/

Ya know star trek isnt as boring as people think. Actually watch it, and you will be educated. =D

[Edited on 06.14.2011 10:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 10:28 PM PDT


Posted by: IXI ZeroExE IXI

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Star Trek's faults came from technobabble and being inconsistent.

As for the JJ phasers, those were turrets, not beam arrays. Overall worked much better as they could easily act as point defense weapons, something NEVER seen in star trek before :D.


I dont mean to be rude...

"act as point defense weapons, something NEVER seen in star trek before :D"

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Point_defense_phaser
^^ Point defense phaser on a Nebula Class... =/

Ya know star trek isnt as boring as people think. Actually watch it, and you will be educated. =D


If it isn't on memory alpha, it isn't considered 'canon'. Anyway, I have watched every star trek movie, chunks of Enterprise, TOS, TNG, most of Voyager, and all of DS9.

Point defense phasers would rip apart fighters and/or torpedos. JJ's movie was the first and only time we see such usage effectively.

Edit: I should clarify, if it isn't seen in the shows, or the movies, it isn't considered 'true canon' for Star Trek.

So yes, I was perfectly correct that point defense systems have not been seen used by the federation in the 'canon' star trek.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 10:58 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 10:50 PM PDT
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Quote memory alpha "See the canon link noted above or the policy for OUR take on things"
LOL they are aloud to make as many rules as they want on their site. they arnt owned or endorsed by paramount =)

Sorry bud.

EDIT: I should clarify. Cannon is not determined in star trek (at least, the horses mouth hasnt said so aka paramount) Some people consider games canon, others dont. the games however, are licensed and approved before hitting store shelves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZwfLbw1obk
You guys should watch this. (also shows p.d.p system on nebula)

@ 1:00 minute total awesomeness.
@ 1:09 Point Defense phasers
@ 1:25 shield draining sucka
@ 0:30 Covenant glassing, eat your heart out.
@ 1:58 CRAP YOUR PANTS

[Edited on 06.15.2011 12:33 AM PDT]

  • 06.15.2011 12:28 AM PDT

the Point Defence Phaser on the Nebula class can't be considered Canon because its from Star Trek Armada, which at the end of the day is a game so things are added to add some game-play value to it. so agree with (not sure who it was!) that in the new film it is the first time phasers are used as and shown to be somewhat effective as point defence weapons, also cool as hell they were mounted on turrets rather than those silly 'strips'!

would also like to add that Photon and Quantum torpedoes can't be moving at warp speed, because we can see them? targeting something moving faster than light would be borderline impossible, because it would arrive before the light from firing reaches you, or before your 'radar' return gets back to tell you its been launched, so not so sure about that one.

the whole idealogical nature of Star Trek makes it difficult to relate to, which is a problem. fair enough the Federation could have exploration ships, science ships and what not, but to have no warships is just stupid and not realistic. as long as there are people, there will be conflict and the need to have armed forces for defence or attack. Star Trek has the technological potential but the writers don't have it in them to make it something darker, something more realistic but still incredible with conflict and diplomacy. so the framework is there to make a formidable Star Trek fleet, equipped for war but that isn't the 'Star Trek' way, which is a shame because some of the best parts of the shows were during the Dominion war in Deep Space Nine with the Defiant and such forth.

  • 06.15.2011 5:19 AM PDT

My name is Legion, for we are many.

If everything in Halo had to fight everything in Star Wars/Mass Effect they would lose. Not that they're weak or "noob", but every species still thriving in the Halo universe hates/dislikes/doesn't trust every other sapient species existing in the galaxy; to make a long story short, we see a lot of racism and speciesism in the world of Halo. So there would be a general lack of unity and mutual respect even if the humans and aliens of Halo had to work together.

Whereas in Mass Effect, the human alliance and the turians got over their first conflict with only a few hundred casualties in total. And in Star Wars every species can essentially make friends with each other. Factions and disputes are largely down to individual beliefs and actions, not regarding species.

Moving on. Precursor ships are armed to the teeth? We actually don't know anything about the Precursors besides the fact that they preceded the Forerunners. And even if they did have extraordinarily advanced minds the indoctrinating tactics the Reapers use could subdue them within a short period of time.

The Flood or the Covenant do have the firepower and ability to fight the armies from Mass Effect or Star Wars but I have no idea how that war's going to play out unless the developers make an epic crossover non-canon game.

  • 06.15.2011 5:34 AM PDT

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Posted by: n3rdygam3r
If everything in Halo had to fight everything in Star Wars/Mass Effect they would lose. Not that they're weak or "noob", but every species still thriving in the Halo universe hates/dislikes/doesn't trust every other sapient species existing in the galaxy; to make a long story short, we see a lot of racism and speciesism in the world of Halo. So there would be a general lack of unity and mutual respect even if the humans and aliens of Halo had to work together.

Whereas in Mass Effect, the human alliance and the turians got over their first conflict with only a few hundred casualties in total. And in Star Wars every species can essentially make friends with each other. Factions and disputes are largely down to individual beliefs and actions, not regarding species.

Moving on. Precursor ships are armed to the teeth? We actually don't know anything about the Precursors besides the fact that they preceded the Forerunners. And even if they did have extraordinarily advanced minds the indoctrinating tactics the Reapers use could subdue them within a short period of time.

The Flood or the Covenant do have the firepower and ability to fight the armies from Mass Effect or Star Wars but I have no idea how that war's going to play out unless the developers make an epic crossover non-canon game.

Brutes and elites temporarly stopped fighting each other for minutes as they fought against the flood on the ring.
The flood temporarly allied themselves with John-117 and the Arbiter to kill the prophet of truth. Humanity and the elites is another example.

I'm sure they could all temporarly band togheter long enough to do something. Plus under the right leadership, The Didact, things might work out.

  • 06.15.2011 5:44 AM PDT

My name is Legion, for we are many.

Brutes and elites temporarly stopped fighting each other for minutes as they fought against the flood on the ring.
The flood temporarly allied themselves with John-117 and the Arbiter to kill the prophet of truth. Humanity and the elites is another example.

I'm sure they could all temporarly band togheter long enough to do something. Plus under the right leadership, The Didact, things might work out.


I'm sorry but temporary alliances mean nothing. Elites and Brutes could start fighting each other at any little provocation. Humans might be tempted to betray alien allies due to what happened to them in the Human-Covenant War. And the Jackals...all you have to do is promise them that they'll get filthy rich from working for you and they'll change sides with no qualms. And leadership? I'm not yet sure if any of the species in Halo are mentally ready to accept a common leadership yet.

  • 06.15.2011 5:53 AM PDT

What's the Precursors?

  • 06.15.2011 6:25 AM PDT

My name is Legion, for we are many.

What's the Precursors?

FYI the Precursors are the alien species (singular or plural) that preceded the Forerunners.

  • 06.15.2011 6:30 AM PDT


Posted by: soulider assasin
What's the Precursors?


Ancient race that preceeded the Forerunners. Though what they were specifically is anyone's guess. The only living one known was described as being 15 meters tall, with four arms, a gigantic tail that ended on a 2 meter long barb, and was several million years old.

  • 06.15.2011 7:09 AM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

Um... Read this link, it explains about Enterprise-D vs Pillar of Autumn. Read carefully, it explains each compartment such as firepower, armor hull, etc with mathematical progress and how it would take to penetrate that armor, etc.

Link


I understand there's several errors there but how it is done as example here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

And, I would believe that Covenant would still destroy the Star Trek for two reasons: Their energy shields are designed for energy particles weapons such as phasers and photon torpedoes, etc. So it would be useless against it. Second reason is plasma weaponry. It is much more advanced than Star Trek can hope to. And about ablative armor being magnetized, I don't see any that in any series so we can assume that any ships does not have magnetized ablative armor, which plasma weaponry would devastate any ships at ease.

And most of covenant ships are bigger than any ships known in the Star trek, including Borgs as well. Most largest covenant warship to known is supercarrier, being 27km long. However they might not beat Borgs but Flood/Forerunners can.

So, Star Trek might have chance against Halo if it's normal forces only but in another story for forerunners/flood, Nope. Star Trek would go down fast if that ever encounters Flood or Forerunners.

[Edited on 06.15.2011 9:26 AM PDT]

  • 06.15.2011 8:27 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

It will always come down to Force vs Precursors, at which point we don't know how one will effect the other.

  • 06.15.2011 8:54 AM PDT
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"Time was your ally human. But now it has abandoned you. The Forerunners....have returned. And this tomb... is now yours". - The Didact


Posted by: dahuterschuter
It will always come down to Force vs Precursors, at which point we don't know how one will effect the other.


The force can we wounded if alot of people die in the sw galaxy
Example alderan destruction.Imagine if the galaxy get's purged of life.

  • 06.15.2011 8:57 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.


Posted by: hotshot revan II

Posted by: dahuterschuter
It will always come down to Force vs Precursors, at which point we don't know how one will effect the other.


The force can we wounded if alot of people die in the sw galaxy
Example alderan destruction.Imagine if the galaxy get's purged of life.


No, it can't be. That caused a disturbance in the Force, which could be felt by Force users. There was no damage to it because it can't be damaged.

Again, Force vs Precursors becomes a battle of Invincibility vs Unknown. Which are things that really cannot be compared, let alone battle.

  • 06.15.2011 9:15 AM PDT


Posted by: IXI ZeroExE IXI
Quote memory alpha "See the canon link noted above or the policy for OUR take on things"
LOL they are aloud to make as many rules as they want on their site. they arnt owned or endorsed by paramount =)

Sorry bud.

EDIT: I should clarify. Cannon is not determined in star trek (at least, the horses mouth hasnt said so aka paramount) Some people consider games canon, others dont. the games however, are licensed and approved before hitting store shelves.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZwfLbw1obk
You guys should watch this. (also shows p.d.p system on nebula)

@ 1:00 minute total awesomeness.
@ 1:09 Point Defense phasers
@ 1:25 shield draining sucka
@ 0:30 Covenant glassing, eat your heart out.
@ 1:58 CRAP YOUR PANTS


Actually, Star Trek canon is the movies and most of the TV shows, the books and games are not considered canon at all.

  • 06.15.2011 12:16 PM PDT

(\.(\
(='.' )
(,(")(")

considering we know nothing of the precursors, it's ignorant to say they could survive a fight with a jedi, however i agree with you, forerunner capabilities alone would be enough to give these galaxies a run for their money, not to mention if we go even further back in the timeline than cryptum, human and san shyum rivaled the strength of forerunners, so there's
1) the modern unsc and covenant
2) the foreunners.
3)humans and san shyum before the great war
4)precursors
5)the flood
it's ironic to me that if the halo universe were to fight another universe, spartans would be less than a spec of dust compared to the other species in the battle.

  • 06.15.2011 12:25 PM PDT