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  • Subject: who thinks elites are weaker than spartans
Subject: who thinks elites are weaker than spartans

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)

[Edited on 06.11.2011 10:58 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 10:56 AM PDT

S.H.E


Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)
This is like a race war... only its over a video game. NEERDS! My take on this is that a spartan lll would be beaten by a Elite but a spartan ll would win against a Elite.

  • 06.11.2011 10:59 AM PDT


Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)


Well, yeah... But a spartans armor is practically part of him...

It "attaches" to their nervous system...

  • 06.11.2011 11:00 AM PDT

S.H.E


Posted by: VXG spartan92380

Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)


Well, yeah... But a spartans armor is practically part of him...

It "attaches" to their nervous system...
That doesn't count.

  • 06.11.2011 11:02 AM PDT

yes Sangheili are naturally stronger than Spartans, however I do think Spartans are stronger with their powered armour, also their shielding is supposed to be an 'improved' version of Covenant shielding. would be inclined to say that Sangheili are indeed very tall, think their height might be between the two figures, rather than either one! the problem is they are extremely hunched more or less all the time so it makes their 'actual' height hard to determine. the Arbiter from Halo: Wars was substantially taller and more massive than Sergeant Forge, Forge isn't much shorter than the armoured Spartans, so he is quite a well built and tall human, and the Arbiter is at least a couple of feet taller than him. also for strength the Arbiter casually picks him up by the head with one hand (Forge wearing all his gear) like he is nothing, so rather strong!

Edit: the only strength problem is the fact Forge is able to tackle and hold down the Arbiters arm, which seems odd because there is no way in hell he could hold down the arm of an armoured Spartan.

[Edited on 06.11.2011 11:15 AM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 11:14 AM PDT


Posted by: siggibiggy

Posted by: VXG spartan92380

Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)


Well, yeah... But a spartans armor is practically part of him...

It "attaches" to their nervous system...
That doesn't count.


It can be removed, it's not a part of them.

Simple fact is, Spartans and Elites are roughly equal (in armor). Out of it? Elites win easily. (They come from a 1.3g world I believe.)

Brutes can own both in a hand to hand fight (Brutes come from a 2.1g world).

  • 06.11.2011 11:15 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: siggibiggy

Posted by: VXG spartan92380

Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)


Well, yeah... But a spartans armor is practically part of him...

It "attaches" to their nervous system...
That doesn't count.


It can be removed, it's not a part of them.

Simple fact is, Spartans and Elites are roughly equal (in armor). Out of it? Elites win easily. (They come from a 1.3g world I believe.)

Brutes can own both in a hand to hand fight (Brutes come from a 2.1g world).


You are making up facts again, and this time, in a different thread. Firstly, Spartan's beat Elite's time after time in hand to hand combat. Secondly, a 12 year old Spartan-III out of his armor beat a sword wielding Elite in hand to hand combat during Onyx.

It amuses me that instead of posting any counter-arguments to my points in the other thread, you come here and talk out of your ass some more. I cannot take you seriously anymore, sorry.

  • 06.11.2011 11:24 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)

The armour makes no difference, Elites get the same benefits from it as Spartans do. (Other than Biofoam and AI housing) Taking it away solves nothing really.

8'6 is from the Halo CE instruction manual, not the Bestiarium. Coincidently enough Halopedia have also sourced that incorrectly...

  • 06.11.2011 11:26 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
The armour makes no difference, Elites get the same benefits from it as Spartans do. (Other than Biofoam and AI housing) Taking it away solves nothing really.

8'6 is from the Halo CE instruction manual, not the Bestiarium. Coincidently enough Halopedia have also sourced that incorrectly...


Where does it say the the Elites armor helps make them faster?

  • 06.11.2011 11:38 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
Edit: the only strength problem is the fact Forge is able to tackle and hold down the Arbiters arm, which seems odd because there is no way in hell he could hold down the arm of an armoured Spartan.

Plot shields can let characters do amazing things.

Posted by: anton1792
The armour makes no difference, Elites get the same benefits from it as Spartans do. (Other than Biofoam and AI housing) Taking it away solves nothing really.

8'6 is from the Halo CE instruction manual, not the Bestiarium. Coincidently enough Halopedia have also sourced that incorrectly...

Halopedia is so beaaaaaaad. You're right though, I checked the CE manual and it says 8'6" on page 11, but Thel 'Vadam was considered tall for his kind and he's only 7'10", so that was retconned pretty early on.

As for the armor, the kind worn by Elite warriors doesn't have a reactive force-amplifying layer like MJOLNIR does. It's just a skinsuit for the bottom layer and armored plates plus the shielding and camouflage mechanisms attached to that. Is there a canon source that says their armor enhances them?

  • 06.11.2011 11:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Jonzx5

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: siggibiggy

Posted by: VXG spartan92380

Posted by: Lord Slade
Take an Elite and a Spartan, strip them naked, throw them in an arena and have them fight to the death.

Yeah, Elite wins.

Also, average height for an Elite male is 7'4" (from the Encyclopedia) or 8'6" (from the Bestiarum.)


Well, yeah... But a spartans armor is practically part of him...

It "attaches" to their nervous system...
That doesn't count.


It can be removed, it's not a part of them.

Simple fact is, Spartans and Elites are roughly equal (in armor). Out of it? Elites win easily. (They come from a 1.3g world I believe.)

Brutes can own both in a hand to hand fight (Brutes come from a 2.1g world).


You are making up facts again, and this time, in a different thread. Firstly, Spartan's beat Elite's time after time in hand to hand combat. Secondly, a 12 year old Spartan-III out of his armor beat a sword wielding Elite in hand to hand combat during Onyx.

It amuses me that instead of posting any counter-arguments to my points in the other thread, you come here and talk out of your ass some more. I cannot take you seriously anymore, sorry.


Nope, not making up facts (Like you with the reflexes being so fast an Elite cannot touch a Spartan in hand to hand... guess what? Master Chief's been in two hand to hand fights with elites and was hit several times.)

You make Spartans seem untouchable, which is false.

I stopped taking you seriously when you claimed to win the debate.

  • 06.11.2011 11:41 AM PDT

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Am I the only one who thinks they are about equal strength wise, with their armor anyway.

  • 06.11.2011 11:49 AM PDT

what is this???


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235

Edit: the only strength problem is the fact Forge is able to tackle and hold down the Arbiters arm, which seems odd because there is no way in hell he could hold down the arm of an armoured Spartan.


ever heard of leverage?? if i knock down a dude thats waaaay stronger then me,i could probobly hold his arm down

  • 06.11.2011 11:50 AM PDT

A Grunt on steroids would KILL THEM ALL!!!

  • 06.11.2011 11:52 AM PDT

what is this???

o and no here is taking nto account that sometmes the smarter more experianced fighter wins and not the stronger one.

just like humans i would assume some elites are simply tougher and more determined then other elites

  • 06.11.2011 11:52 AM PDT
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Lmao, DaeFaron, you are the most stupid, ignorant person I know. Every single time I mention a Spartan's speed and how they are "untouchable", I am quoting directly from a Halo Book. I don't make Spartan's seem untouchable, Halo canon does. You are clearly too stupid and ignorant to make sense out of anything.

[Edited on 06.11.2011 12:05 PM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 12:05 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: anton1792
The armour makes no difference, Elites get the same benefits from it as Spartans do. (Other than Biofoam and AI housing) Taking it away solves nothing really.

8'6 is from the Halo CE instruction manual, not the Bestiarium. Coincidently enough Halopedia have also sourced that incorrectly...

Halopedia is so beaaaaaaad. You're right though, I checked the CE manual and it says 8'6" on page 11, but Thel 'Vadam was considered tall for his kind and he's only 7'10", so that was retconned pretty early on.

On Halopedia, 0.04 = 40%! And their source for Mjolnir having thruster packs is the Halo 4 trailer... lol. I think I'll fix that source later because everyone is being fooled by it.

Posted by: Lord Slade
As for the armor, the kind worn by Elite warriors doesn't have a reactive force-amplifying layer like MJOLNIR does. It's just a skinsuit for the bottom layer and armored plates plus the shielding and camouflage mechanisms attached to that. Is there a canon source that says their armor enhances them?

Pg 125 of the Encyclopaedia. There is nothing to contradict that as of yet as far as I know. Although it does not state how far it augments, just that it does. It could be more or less, we just don't know.

Edit: Also, LOL. This thread has become a flame war by page 2. New record set.

[Edited on 06.11.2011 12:10 PM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 12:08 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Jonzx5
Lmao, DaeFaron, you are the most stupid, ignorant person I know. Every single time I mention a Spartan's speed and how they are "untouchable", I am quoting directly from a Halo Book. I don't make Spartan's seem untouchable, Halo canon does. You are clearly too stupid and ignorant to make sense out of anything.

You're taking one word and clinging on its most literal meaning. Not every Spartan-II is Kelly.

Posted by: anton1792
Pg 125 of the Encyclopaedia. There is nothing to contradict that as of yet as far as I know. Although it does not state how far it augments, just that it does. It could be more or less, we just don't know.

The Encyclopedia is riddled with errors, and I suspect that is one of them. The standard Elite harness is primarily composed of armored plates attached over an underlying skinsuit, with a shielding and/or cloaking mechanism contained in the back of the thoracic cage. The skinsuit is skin-tight, whereas MJOLNIR's reactive layer is noticeably thicker, indicating that there is no strength-amplifying layer in the underarmor. Other than that, there's really no place for it to exist. I suppose Forerunner technology could allow for a thinner reactive layer, but the suits designed by the Forerunners for combat are generally large, mechanical devices, designed to be piloted rather than worn.

Besides, look at the ceremonial Arbiter armor. It's purely aesthetic, yet the Arbiters we've seen are of equal or greater strength than most Zealots wearing standard gear.

I just don't see how any of it could work, although I'm waiting for what the Encyclopedia says on the matter when the reprint comes out in September.

  • 06.11.2011 12:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: F420FOOL

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235

Edit: the only strength problem is the fact Forge is able to tackle and hold down the Arbiters arm, which seems odd because there is no way in hell he could hold down the arm of an armoured Spartan.


ever heard of leverage?? if i knock down a dude thats waaaay stronger then me,i could probobly hold his arm down


There was so much wrong with the Halo Wars cutscenes...

  • 06.11.2011 12:46 PM PDT

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Posted by: Jonzx5



Lmao, DaeFaron, you are the most stupid, ignorant person I know. Every single time I mention a Spartan's speed and how they are "untouchable", I am quoting directly from a Halo Book. I don't make Spartan's seem untouchable, Halo canon does. You are clearly too stupid and ignorant to make sense out of anything.


I sense buthurt...

  • 06.11.2011 12:48 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Lord Slade
I just don't see how any of it could work, although I'm waiting for what the Encyclopedia says on the matter when the reprint comes out in September.

There's a reprint?

  • 06.11.2011 12:49 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Lord Slade
I just don't see how any of it could work, although I'm waiting for what the Encyclopedia says on the matter when the reprint comes out in September.

There's a reprint?

Yep.

  • 06.11.2011 12:55 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: Jonzx5
Lmao, DaeFaron, you are the most stupid, ignorant person I know. Every single time I mention a Spartan's speed and how they are "untouchable", I am quoting directly from a Halo Book. I don't make Spartan's seem untouchable, Halo canon does. You are clearly too stupid and ignorant to make sense out of anything.

You're taking one word and clinging on its most literal meaning. Not every Spartan-II is Kelly.

Posted by: anton1792
Pg 125 of the Encyclopaedia. There is nothing to contradict that as of yet as far as I know. Although it does not state how far it augments, just that it does. It could be more or less, we just don't know.

The Encyclopedia is riddled with errors, and I suspect that is one of them. The standard Elite harness is primarily composed of armored plates attached over an underlying skinsuit, with a shielding and/or cloaking mechanism contained in the back of the thoracic cage. The skinsuit is skin-tight, whereas MJOLNIR's reactive layer is noticeably thicker, indicating that there is no strength-amplifying layer in the underarmor. Other than that, there's really no place for it to exist. I suppose Forerunner technology could allow for a thinner reactive layer, but the suits designed by the Forerunners for combat are generally large, mechanical devices, designed to be piloted rather than worn.

Besides, look at the ceremonial Arbiter armor. It's purely aesthetic, yet the Arbiters we've seen are of equal or greater strength than most Zealots wearing standard gear.

I just don't see how any of it could work, although I'm waiting for what the Encyclopedia says on the matter when the reprint comes out in September.


I never even USED Kelly as an example. Infact, I myself have NEVER stated that Spartan's are untouchable, he was putting words into my mouth. I was refering to a "debate" we had on another thread where I posted tons of proof/facts, and he could not counter any of them, so he came here and began to talk out of his ass and spew bull@#$% all over the place again.

The examples I used had nothing to do with Kelly, they were the following: "The Spartan's moved with speed and agility that no Covenant could track" - From Ghosts of Onyx refering to Spartan-III's in SPI Armor. Other examples I used are from Fall Of Reach, where it talks about Spartan's being able to see in slow motion - "Spartan Time". A third example I used from Fall Of Reach was when Spartan's were stated to be too fast for even computers to track. Never mentioned Kelly, never said they were "untouchable", although according to facts published in Halo Canon, they come pretty close.

As for this thread, No, Spartan's are not "stronger" than Elite's. They are roughly equal when it comes to pure physical strength. Spartan's are better trained, and have superior speed/reflexes as they win every single hand to hand engagement with Elite's. Even Spartan-III's in non-powered SPI Armor (SPI Doesn't double strength, or increase speed/reflexes by five times as MJOLNIR does) beat Sword wielding Elite's in full armor.

  • 06.11.2011 12:55 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Lord Slade
Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Lord Slade
I just don't see how any of it could work, although I'm waiting for what the Encyclopedia says on the matter when the reprint comes out in September.

There's a reprint?

Yep.

I hope they do a better job this time and write it like a proper Encyclopaedia. Imagine an encyclopaedia written like "It is thought that..." and "It is believed to be...".

Back on track... I think it is a pizo-electric layer within Mjolnir that is the underlying mechanism for force multiplying circuits. Pass an electric current through these materials and they rapidly change shape. They don't need top be too thick. It probably is some magic Forerunner device underlying it though, just like their weaponry in actually containing enough energy to produce hundreds of superheated plasma bolts. You'd need capacitors the size of a car or something for that.

  • 06.11.2011 1:11 PM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

Posted by: Jonzx5
I never even USED Kelly as an example. Infact, I myself have NEVER stated that Spartan's are untouchable, he was putting words into my mouth.

Alright. I assumed you would be referring to Kelly due to The Fall of Reach stating something along the lines of "She was fast before the augmentations, but afterwards nobody could touch her if she didn't want them to." And yes, the person you were arguing with does tend to do that.

Anyways, don't say you were referring to "facts published in Halo Canon"; the majority of canon is founded on people's interpretations and the speculation based on it. Many of the "facts" in the books are generalizations or exaggerations, not meant to be used as literal fact.

If we were to do that, I could refer to how Elites are described as being "equal to Spartans", and assume that Elites must naturally have reflexes that rival those of the Spartans. Things like this tend to be vague across all canon, which leads to rampant speculation across the board, and there's no official word on these kinds of things. Just different interpretations of related official word.

Anyways, if this was about which is sexier, Sangheili would win. Perhaps I should make that thread.

Posted by: anton1792
Back on track... I think it is a pizo-electric layer within Mjolnir that is the underlying mechanism for force multiplying circuits. Pass an electric current through these materials and they rapidly change shape. They don't need top be too thick. It probably is some magic Forerunner device underlying it though, just like their weaponry in actually containing enough energy to produce hundreds of superheated plasma bolts. You'd need capacitors the size of a car or something for that.
The Fall of Reach
"Most importantly," Dr. Halsey said, "the armor's inner structure is composed of a new reactive metal liquid crystal. It is amorphous, yet fractally scales and amplifies force."
Judging by this anecdote, it would seem the force amplification is a property of the "reactive metal liquid crystal" itself rather than a powered mechanism. Because of this it leads me to believe there's no way for an Elite's armor to amplify force in the same manner that MJOLNIR does because their armor lacks this layer of T-1000 fluid.


And yeah, the plasma weapons. Lol. They also don't mention in the books that the plasma bolts would have to travel at around the speed of light if they were to have any hope of hitting something before cooling down. But they dismiss that with this:
"What the hell did they hit us with?" Captain Wallace demanded.
"Plasma," Dr. Halsey replied. "But not any plasma we know... they can actually guide its trajectory through space, without any detectable mechanism. Amazing."
In other words, Covenant plasma is magic.

[Edited on 06.11.2011 1:32 PM PDT]

  • 06.11.2011 1:17 PM PDT