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Subject: If there were no Halo books published...

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: Pipboy 3050
They would accept the story more. If it was the other way around, lets say fanboys thought reach fell in a month for the last 10 years, and then Bungie re-conned it to 1 day, people would not be happy bunnies.


Pretty much.

  • 06.12.2011 2:43 PM PDT

It, however, makes more sense to bring it down to a single day, as it shows how strong the foe is. But that's just my five cents. I would still gladly take the book's story for the simple fact that every Spartans are fighting for their home.In the game, Noble Team seems like the only Spartans on the whole planet.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 9:41 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 9:40 PM PDT

"I may not be perfect, but always been true."


Posted by: TheLionKing1
It, however, makes more sense to bring it down to a single day, as it shows how strong the foe is. But that's just my five cents. I would still gladly take the book's story for the simple fact that every Spartans are fighting for their home.In the game, Noble Team seems like the only Spartans on the whole planet.


Jun mentions Gauntlet, Echo and Red Team doing civilian evac in New Alexandria.

  • 06.12.2011 9:45 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

The "no nuke" thing is probably something you shouldn't take a face value much like Hood's exaggerations. We do know for a fact the UNSC had a shortage of nukes and were so desperate yo get some they would barter with rebels who did have them.

  • 06.12.2011 10:17 PM PDT


Posted by: Grizzled Ancient
Posted by: Grizzled Ancient
Would people have enjoyed Reach more? Seeing as most people's gripe about it was because it didn't fit the canon of the rather pitiful fall of Reach in the books.

Posted by: halo3f3ak
How can you call it pitiful? The whole point of the way The Fall of Reach was told was to show just how desperate humanities situation was.

Because the most protected planet in the galaxy, other than Earth, fell within 24 hours. That was pathetic.


You're right. It was pathetic. Humanity's strength against the Covenant was pathetic. That's why Reach falling in a day is a much more effective plot mechanic. It also made humanity less confident in their military might. The destruction of Reach was the most humbling event in the UNSC's military history. Our backs were against the wall and we knew it.

One of the main things I disliked about Reach was the lack of concern about the Covenant being on Reach. Noble Team just kinda walked around after a mission as if there was no rush.

  • 06.12.2011 10:39 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: Thugzz Deluxxxe

Posted by: Grizzled Ancient
Posted by: Grizzled Ancient
Would people have enjoyed Reach more? Seeing as most people's gripe about it was because it didn't fit the canon of the rather pitiful fall of Reach in the books.

Posted by: halo3f3ak
How can you call it pitiful? The whole point of the way The Fall of Reach was told was to show just how desperate humanities situation was.

Because the most protected planet in the galaxy, other than Earth, fell within 24 hours. That was pathetic.


You're right. It was pathetic. Humanity's strength against the Covenant was pathetic. That's why Reach falling in a day is a much more effective plot mechanic. It also made humanity less confident in their military might. The destruction of Reach was the most humbling event in the UNSC's military history. Our backs were against the wall and we knew it.

One of the main things I disliked about Reach was the lack of concern about the Covenant being on Reach. Noble Team just kinda walked around after a mission as if there was no rush.

Nylund's writing still felt like a cop-out. Yeah, yeah, yeah the whole "It showed how unprepared the UNSC was" is all fine and dandy, but there is no way the UNSC was that unprepared.

  • 06.12.2011 10:42 PM PDT

Jun mentions Gauntlet, Echo and Red Team doing civilian evac in New Alexandria.

Really? I didn't noticed that, i'll go play the level again. Thank you.

[Edited on 06.13.2011 9:16 AM PDT]

  • 06.13.2011 9:15 AM PDT

Vengeance only leads to an ongoing cycle of hatred.

Reach was an abomination, books or no books.

Also, if there was no Halo books, I'm not sure if I'd even be as interested as I am now in Halo...

  • 06.13.2011 9:25 AM PDT

If good looks could kill, I'd be a weapon of mass destruction.

Q: Hey, what did Hitler say to the black jew?
A: Get to the back of the oven.

Honestly, yes.

A lot of the big issues with canon would be solved.

However, the story, regardless of canon, had many significant issues regardless.

So, while people would have enjoyed the story more, the question is would people have truly enjoyed the story altogether?

  • 06.13.2011 9:27 AM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: halo3f3ak
How can you call it pitiful? The whole point of the way The Fall of Reach was told was to show just how desperate humanities situation was.
[/quote]


Because the book's ending felt like a big cop-out. Nylund spent so much time on events other than Reach, it felt like he went "Oh right, this is the Fall of Reach, crap I only have about ten pages left, oh hey, let's have the Covenant Zerg rush Reach!"



Holy crap, SOMEBODY who thinks that. I've been saying that for months. Its "The Story of John 117 plus 8 pages about Reach"

  • 06.13.2011 9:31 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Nylund's writing still felt like a cop-out. Yeah, yeah, yeah the whole "It showed how unprepared the UNSC was" is all fine and dandy, but there is no way the UNSC was that unprepared.

You haven't read the book if you think they were unprepared. The UNSC was VERY prepared. They took the largest UNSC fleet available at the time and pitted it against a superior Covenant fleet (more ships, better weapons, etc.) and still destroyed 80% of the attacking forces. Hell, the UNSC was basically WINNING the fight until the SMAC's lost power.

I really hate that people are complaining about the trivial nature of the book being title "Reach" and only a select portion of it being about that. Reach was the catalyst to humanities assured destruction. Everything that was happening, all the hope being created by the Spartan II program and all the victories they had claimed for humanity were basically nullified with the fall of Reach. 90% of the Spartan II's died, probably around 60% of the UNSC fleet was destroyed and the fortress world was glassed. Everything that the UNSC had was thrown at the Covenant and it still wasn't enough.

This is what made games like ODST ring with fans. Lines like "remember Reach" really mean something within the above context. The game however makes that seem laughable. Hell, Halo 2/3's portrayal of the battle for Earth makes Halo: Reach seem like a cakewalk.

  • 06.13.2011 9:34 AM PDT

Whens there's no one to turn to, just aim ahead


Posted by: falcon8134
Yea you people are saying Halo Reach was better, because the fight was longer and they put up a fight. Okay. The most highly protected military planet in the Galaxy...
1. Couldn't even detect a single scout ship holding a small Army inside.
2. The covenant could have built a whole city and had a giant orgy in that vally before anyone, ON THE MOST HIGHLY PROTECTED MILTARY PLANET IN THE GALAXY, would have noticed. But yea I guess nobody would have noticed giant towers being built on their own planet.
3. I'm flying around in space and there's one single Defense station protecting Reach. Like seriously wtf, are you kidding?
4. The whole planet is just a giant farm. No wonder the Covenant just walked right in.
5. If there is a scout team on Reach then you would think the UNSC would call back a ton of ships preparing a defense, because the Covenant know where Reach is.
6. The -blam!- UNSC couldn't even take out a single Assult carrier without comming up with a very risky plan. You would think, the most highly protected military planet in the Galaxy would be able to handle a single ship. Atleast I would hope so.
7. A small Covenant Army was able to just walk into Sword Base with almost no difficulty.

Those are just the examples off the top of my head.
Now for the books. They are better, because the Covenant attacked Reach with their biggest Army they had ever throwin into battle, assuming that Reach was our homeworld. They attacked hard with full force so they could get us out of the way once and for all. Its no suprise they were able to take out Reach within a day. Take out the super mac guns and it was over. Which they did.
If you read the books you will know that the UNSC had difficulty taking out Covenant ships with their own ships. Many UNSC ships were not present, but there was still a nice chunk defending Reach. Once the Covies got passed the SMG and UNSC ships, they were able to invade the planet with millions of soilders. Thus turning the planet into glass within a single day.
That is something I would have much rather seen then the Halo Reach bullcrap.


The didn't glass the entire planet within a day. Master Chief returned AFTER the events of halo: ce, which who knows took how long, and rescued the remaining spartans and Dr Hasley from Castle Base.

  • 06.13.2011 10:12 AM PDT
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  • Senior Heroic Member

BLAM!

I feel like if you want a complete story of Reach's defeat you need to read both "The Fall of Reach" and "First Strike."

TFoR gives you the perspective of the massive space battle that took place around the planet, whereas FS gives you an accurate depicition of what the fighting was like at ground level.

It'd be neat if someone combined the Reach segments of both books. All in all, TFoR did seem more like an intro to the Spartan II program. IMO should have been called Boot Camp. Having it titled "The Fall of Reach" gave me expectations that weren't met until I read First Strike.

  • 06.13.2011 11:34 AM PDT

Adepto In Meus Campester
Posted by: ParagonRenegade
You were totally and absolutely correct in every way, I don't know why we were arguing, you're so amazing I should never have doubted you.

No. It would make Halo a much, much more laughable franchise if Reach was what the canon was founded on instead of TFoR.

  • 06.13.2011 11:55 AM PDT

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: bagan bodies 2
Honestly, yes.

A lot of the big issues with canon would be solved.

However, the story, regardless of canon, had many significant issues regardless.

So, while people would have enjoyed the story more, the question is would people have truly enjoyed the story altogether?


I doubt that people would enjoy it more per say. As someone noted earlier if Halo had no books, it's more likely there would be less people invested in the story of Halo in the first place.

However, I also doubt that people would question the progression of the game either if one were to truly look at Reach without the existence of the books. It's a difficult task considering how ingrained most if not all concepts about Reach stem from the books from the SMACs, fleet strengths of both sides, etc, etc.

The only thing know about Reach based solely on the games and their manuals is that:

A) Was a military hub on Earth's relative doorstep
B) Was the source of the Spartan Super Soldier program
C) Was attacked by a Covenant fleet larger than the one initially attacking Earth
D) Was the place where all Spartans died save for the Chief
E) It fell

With that said, there would be no expectations of SMACs taking down Covenant vessels, no expectations of conflictions with dates such as when Blue teams mission occurred or how Halsey conducted the Red Flag briefing while the world burned around them, hell if no books existed no one would even think that Noble Team were IIIs or even know of the concept of it.

Instead we find ourselves in a long drawn out campaign more akin to ODST focused on spontaneous events as the planet slowly falls to the Covenant and how despite the visible efforts of one Spartan team and the overheard actions of other Spartans and UNSC forces elsewhere it ultimately does nothing to slow the advance of the Covenant. And after a month's worth of fighting the planet finally falls.

Storywise we'd still end up with no story much like ODST where events just happen as they are until the last two levels, but more likely than not more gamers would be likely to accept being a cog in the UNSC war machine on Reach witnessing a small chunk of what occurred on the planet from one spartan's point of view in limited areas when there's less things to question about what is/should be going on simultaneously elsewhere on the planet.

  • 06.13.2011 12:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
Reach was an abomination, books or no books.

Also, if there was no Halo books, I'm not sure if I'd even be as interested as I am now in Halo...
Posted by: Lord Slade
No. It would make Halo a much, much more laughable franchise if Reach was what the canon was founded on instead of TFoR.
Definitely agree with these.

Though I have to say that Halo is only laughable because of its fanbase, and the fact that MS hypes it up to be the second coming of Jesus. Other than that, it's a solid franchise. I also think that its fanbase(the little kids/teenagers/bro gamers that make up the majority) is holding it back.

[Edited on 06.13.2011 12:11 PM PDT]

  • 06.13.2011 12:05 PM PDT

Yes.

Sorry people, it would. Reach was critically acclaimed by everyone OUTSIDE of these forums. I'm quite confident the only reason there was so much hate for the game was for two reasons:

1) It broke the canon of the book.

2) It was different.

We can't adapt, and we never will. We can't adapt to a change in canon; we can't adapt to a change in gameplay (armor abilities, reticule bloom).

  • 06.13.2011 12:05 PM PDT

I don't get why the reticule bloom is being bashed so much. Does this change anything? Really? I don't see the difference in accuracy as long as I don't go trigger-happy. Anyway, yeah, the big frustration is the game breaking the 8 years or so long canon that the books established.

  • 06.13.2011 12:31 PM PDT

We certainly wouldn't be having these raging debates over canon in regards to Reach anyway.
I know I enjoyed the timeline laid out for the Battle of Reach in the game more than the book at least, really though I view both as part of the same whole, they complete each other. On its own though the Battle of Reach from TFoR just plain sucks...there is no way in hell it could have fallen in two hours, the book kind of contradicts itself, and definitely contradicts common sense.

  • 06.13.2011 1:40 PM PDT


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If the UNSC and the Covenant can contest for Harvest with 5 years of constant fighting, what excuse does Reach have for falling so quickly?

one, the invasion was -blam- right in there faces. They were caught off guard, so they would lose. Also, the fllet was huge. But, the book was the first one to come out,and it was a prequal to show where Chief came from. Also, the book felt different to all other halo books.

  • 06.13.2011 1:48 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..

It would have been more welcomed, but I still think it still sucks book or no book.

  • 06.13.2011 2:18 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: xXLastHylianXx
Yes.

Sorry people, it would. Reach was critically acclaimed by everyone OUTSIDE of these forums. I'm quite confident the only reason there was so much hate for the game was for two reasons:

1) It broke the canon of the book.

2) It was different.

We can't adapt, and we never will. We can't adapt to a change in canon; we can't adapt to a change in gameplay (armor abilities, reticule bloom).

Or...

1. Cliche characters
2. No epic battls
3. Up until The Package, there was very little plot
4. Plot holes (how did the Covenant ships get to Reach withought anyone detecting them?)

[Edited on 06.13.2011 2:23 PM PDT]

  • 06.13.2011 2:23 PM PDT


Posted by: A Random Turtle
Or...

1. Cliche characters
2. No epic battls
3. Up until The Package, there was very little plot
4. Plot holes (how did the Covenant ships get to Reach withought anyone detecting them?)


Funny enough, no actual critics (the people that are paid to dislike games) agreed with you on that. . .

  • 06.14.2011 8:17 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: osicks
I feel like if you want a complete story of Reach's defeat you need to read both "The Fall of Reach" and "First Strike."

TFoR gives you the perspective of the massive space battle that took place around the planet, whereas FS gives you an accurate depicition of what the fighting was like at ground level.

It'd be neat if someone combined the Reach segments of both books. All in all, TFoR did seem more like an intro to the Spartan II program. IMO should have been called Boot Camp. Having it titled "The Fall of Reach" gave me expectations that weren't met until I read First Strike.

That's a really good point.
Although First-Strike was more of a post-Reach event, like how all the survivors regrouped for one big family reunion. LOL

[Edited on 06.14.2011 8:26 AM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 8:26 AM PDT

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