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Subject: Imagine if TFOR stated reach fell in 1 month, and Halo:Reach....
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Posted by: Juan Teran
The Fall of Reach clearly states that Reach fell in a single day. First Strike backs everything that happened in the first book, and it's been accepted by the community that it fits perfectly in the canon... before 2010.

I never heard people complaining about Reach falling in a single day UNTIL Halo: Reach was released. That defeat had a huge impact on humanity, the heart of the UNSC military forces, Reach, falling in a single day, against the biggest Covenant fleet (over 350 ships).

It made sense, now I'm forced to retcon a story that I liked for a story where the Covenant appear out of nowhere in the planet for no apparent reason... and nothing makes sense. Seriously, Reach tries to be smart, adding complex words and some "backstory" (like in the opening scene in The Long Night of Solace) just to cover all the stupidity in the story.

I'm not even trying to defend the story of the campaign, but Halsey clearly states in the second mission that the Covenant are there for the Forerunner artifact under Sword Base...

and of course the fact that it's the human's largest military production plant.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 4:24 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 4:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Pipboy 3050
And I'm pointing out that no matter how good the changes are, for good or for bad, halo fans will still be outraged.


The majority of the Halo fanbase couldn't care less about the story, let alone the canon. That's the only reason Bungie can get away with something like this. The same goes for 343i.

  • 06.12.2011 4:46 PM PDT
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Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: Pipboy 3050
And I'm pointing out that no matter how good the changes are, for good or for bad, halo fans will still be outraged.


The majority of the Halo fanbase couldn't care less about the story, let alone the canon. That's the only reason Bungie can get away with something like this. The same goes for 343i.

Which is quite sad since, as someone else pointed out, the fall of the planet in one day was supposed to show that the Covenant could not be beaten (that is, of course, until the Battle of Installation 04).

[Edited on 06.12.2011 4:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 4:48 PM PDT

I was really happy to see this thread existing OP, I was actually thinking about this just as I found it out.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 4:57 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 4:56 PM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!


Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: Pipboy 3050
And I'm pointing out that no matter how good the changes are, for good or for bad, halo fans will still be outraged.


The majority of the Halo fanbase couldn't care less about the story, let alone the canon. That's the only reason Bungie can get away with something like this. The same goes for 343i.
But they don't seem to have gotten away with it. So many people are quite upset/disappointed/annoyed/angry about what they did...

  • 06.12.2011 4:58 PM PDT
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Posted by: AlienTounge

Posted by: xXFatal v1
Posted by: Pipboy 3050
And I'm pointing out that no matter how good the changes are, for good or for bad, halo fans will still be outraged.


The majority of the Halo fanbase couldn't care less about the story, let alone the canon. That's the only reason Bungie can get away with something like this. The same goes for 343i.
But they don't seem to have gotten away with it. So many people are quite upset/disappointed/annoyed/angry about what they did...
Well, Bungie is off the hook because they're not involved with Halo anymore, but now it's 343i's job to clean up the mess they left. 343i doesn't really have to do anything about it either, they're already guaranteed loads of money.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 5:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 5:10 PM PDT

I laugh at your pitifall attempts to defeat me!

It is sad that Bungie's last Halo game turned out to be their worse. I don't like to think that Bungie made a mess of things on purpose, like others have suggested, though. It's all very tragic, but I'm behind 343, and their efforts. I'll be positive about what they might bring to the franchise.

[Edited on 06.12.2011 5:26 PM PDT]

  • 06.12.2011 5:25 PM PDT

Whens there's no one to turn to, just aim ahead


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: grey101
What is the point of this stupid thread?


and the point of reach losing the planet in "one day" was to show how strong the covenant are. The game completely undermined that and made the covenant look far more stupid than they are.


Not your best day, pal.


One month is short enough for the fall of reach to still be a complete and utter shock. 1 month isn't that long.


Today is actually one of my better days.

1 month is far too long. The covenant beat the UNSC in space 99 percent of the time. so explain how reach could survive 1 month without a fleet.


The planet was glassed 1 month after the initial invasion. Reach only lasted a small portion of that time (fight wise).

  • 06.12.2011 5:39 PM PDT


Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
(Which should be -blam!- impossible anyway for reasons stated before here.)

Why is that?


The dropships flew into the atmosphere at the poles, and took massive losses.

Then, within 2-3 hours they have magically regrouped and figured out what they still had, and deployed and mounted successful(and overwhelming) attacks on UNSC command and the orbital generator defenses, which were NOT at the poles. Said locations were also heavily fortified and most of the time UNSC wins on ground battles.

Logistically, and time-wise, that's impossible.

Oh, and the UNSC Air force's garrison of Skyhawks and other combat aircraft sat in their bases doing absolutely nothing to stop/hamper the dropships deployments, and the UNSC had no AA guns on Reach it seems.

  • 06.12.2011 5:56 PM PDT

"A LIE is a LIE"


- Truly intelligent and deep Black ops trailer


Posted by: A Puzzled Mind

Posted by: Pipboy 3050
Think about it. If TFOR originally stated Reach fell in 1 month, and then Bungie's game came along and changed that to ONE day, people would be acting the exact same way they are acting now.



Oh pipboy, your attempt at defending the game is quite pathetic.

Face it, you played a -blam!- campaign.



Use your brain, idiot.

This argument applies to all forms of halo canon - I used Halo:reach as an example. And I'm not talking about the single player game, I am talking about canon.

  • 06.13.2011 12:26 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The Generator complex fell to the Plasma torpedo of a Covenant Cruiser. The troops attacking the Complex before that came from another Cruiser in the Longhorn Valley, and there were thousands of troops there.

The Cruisers presumably got through the huge hole in Reach's defences where 120 of 150 UNSC ships and 7 SMACs were already destroyed in the Space battle.

  • 06.13.2011 10:12 AM PDT

Whens there's no one to turn to, just aim ahead


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: A Random Turtle

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
(Which should be -blam!- impossible anyway for reasons stated before here.)

Why is that?


The dropships flew into the atmosphere at the poles, and took massive losses.

Then, within 2-3 hours they have magically regrouped and figured out what they still had, and deployed and mounted successful(and overwhelming) attacks on UNSC command and the orbital generator defenses, which were NOT at the poles. Said locations were also heavily fortified and most of the time UNSC wins on ground battles.

Logistically, and time-wise, that's impossible.

Oh, and the UNSC Air force's garrison of Skyhawks and other combat aircraft sat in their bases doing absolutely nothing to stop/hamper the dropships deployments, and the UNSC had no AA guns on Reach it seems.


On the topic of AA guns, the Covenant had more AA guns then the UNSC did on THEIR OWN PLANET.

  • 06.13.2011 10:18 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: grey101
What is the point of this stupid thread?


and the point of reach losing the planet in "one day" was to show how strong the covenant are. The game completely undermined that and made the covenant look far more stupid than they are.


Not your best day, pal.


One month is short enough for the fall of reach to still be a complete and utter shock. 1 month isn't that long.


Today is actually one of my better days.

1 month is far too long. The covenant beat the UNSC in space 99 percent of the time. so explain how reach could survive 1 month without a fleet.


It wasn't even a month, it was two weeks, at the most. The events of the game span a whole month, but the Battle of Reach didn't really officially start until about 12-14th of August. Much like in WWII there was a space of time that is still counted as the beginning of the war, but neither the Germans or Allies really did anything to each other.

What makes you think that Reach had no fleet? We know for a fact it did, if you're referring to Dot's statement on the LNoS mission she's talking about reinforcements arriving. And even in the book (which only had the FoPJ) the Battle should have lasted far long than a couple of hours, counting all UNSC assets at the battle they were at the very least equal to the Covenant forces in strength and also factoring in such brilliant commanders as Keyes and other greats. Now with the timeline of Halo: Reach added to TFoR it now makes perfect sense for Reach to fall in a couple hours on the 30th as the Covenant and UNSC had been fighting for several days already, and the arrival of the Fleet of Particular Justice completely tipped the scales in the Covenant's favor.

  • 06.13.2011 2:18 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: grey101
What is the point of this stupid thread?


and the point of reach losing the planet in "one day" was to show how strong the covenant are. The game completely undermined that and made the covenant look far more stupid than they are.


Not your best day, pal.


One month is short enough for the fall of reach to still be a complete and utter shock. 1 month isn't that long.


Today is actually one of my better days.

1 month is far too long. The covenant beat the UNSC in space 99 percent of the time. so explain how reach could survive 1 month without a fleet.


It wasn't even a month, it was two weeks, at the most. The events of the game span a whole month, but the Battle of Reach didn't really officially start until about 12-14th of August. Much like in WWII there was a space of time that is still counted as the beginning of the war, but neither the Germans or Allies really did anything to each other.

What makes you think that Reach had no fleet? We know for a fact it did, if you're referring to Dot's statement on the LNoS mission she's talking about reinforcements arriving. And even in the book (which only had the FoPJ) the Battle should have lasted far long than a couple of hours, counting all UNSC assets at the battle they were at the very least equal to the Covenant forces in strength and also factoring in such brilliant commanders as Keyes and other greats. Now with the timeline of Halo: Reach added to TFoR it now makes perfect sense for Reach to fall in a couple hours on the 30th as the Covenant and UNSC had been fighting for several days already, and the arrival of the Fleet of Particular Justice completely tipped the scales in the Covenant's favor.


no fleet as in after the covenant wiped it out.

Your trying to even it out which is the problem.

I don;t understand why 10 years later people still don't realize that humanity is weaker in space to the covenant. In all honesty even if humanity out number the covenant slightly i would still put money on the covenant due to the types of ships that they sent to reach.


therefore even if they had the same amount of forces i again would still bet on the covenant. becuase once the macs are down (swarm with dropships) it's over.

You can have the bias of trying to protect humanity but no matter what you try to say the covenant will always win in space when it comes to a true legitimate engagement unless highly outnumbered.

  • 06.13.2011 2:26 PM PDT
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Imagine a triangle. It's perfect, but a little plain. You take a chisel, and carve a small decorative symbol into it to make it a little more interesting. People like it, but it could use a little more.

So you then take a sledgehammer..


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
The Generator complex fell to the Plasma torpedo of a Covenant Cruiser. The troops attacking the Complex before that came from another Cruiser in the Longhorn Valley, and there were thousands of troops there.

The Cruisers presumably got through the huge hole in Reach's defences where 120 of 150 UNSC ships and 7 SMACs were already destroyed in the Space battle.

This. In Halo 2, a Carrier gets past Earth's defenses with onlyd 0.7% of the SMACs destroyed, imagine how many ships could slip past if 35% of the SMACs were gone.

  • 06.13.2011 2:28 PM PDT


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: Pipboy 3050

Posted by: grey101
What is the point of this stupid thread?


and the point of reach losing the planet in "one day" was to show how strong the covenant are. The game completely undermined that and made the covenant look far more stupid than they are.


Not your best day, pal.


One month is short enough for the fall of reach to still be a complete and utter shock. 1 month isn't that long.


Today is actually one of my better days.

1 month is far too long. The covenant beat the UNSC in space 99 percent of the time. so explain how reach could survive 1 month without a fleet.


It wasn't even a month, it was two weeks, at the most. The events of the game span a whole month, but the Battle of Reach didn't really officially start until about 12-14th of August. Much like in WWII there was a space of time that is still counted as the beginning of the war, but neither the Germans or Allies really did anything to each other.

What makes you think that Reach had no fleet? We know for a fact it did, if you're referring to Dot's statement on the LNoS mission she's talking about reinforcements arriving. And even in the book (which only had the FoPJ) the Battle should have lasted far long than a couple of hours, counting all UNSC assets at the battle they were at the very least equal to the Covenant forces in strength and also factoring in such brilliant commanders as Keyes and other greats. Now with the timeline of Halo: Reach added to TFoR it now makes perfect sense for Reach to fall in a couple hours on the 30th as the Covenant and UNSC had been fighting for several days already, and the arrival of the Fleet of Particular Justice completely tipped the scales in the Covenant's favor.


no fleet as in after the covenant wiped it out.

Your trying to even it out which is the problem.

I don;t understand why 10 years later people still don't realize that humanity is weaker in space to the covenant. In all honesty even if humanity out number the covenant slightly i would still put money on the covenant due to the types of ships that they sent to reach.


therefore even if they had the same amount of forces i again would still bet on the covenant. becuase once the macs are down (swarm with dropships) it's over.

You can have the bias of trying to protect humanity but no matter what you try to say the covenant will always win in space when it comes to a true legitimate engagement unless highly outnumbered.


No one's saying they would last a month with the UNSC's space defenses down, what ever gave you that idea?

Just because you are stronger, numerically or just stronger in general, does not mean that victory is automatically and easily assured. The Covenant would win the Battle of Reach regardless, but it only makes the Covenant look preposterously over-powered having them completely take Reach in a mere 2 hours and makes the UNSC look like a bunch of senile, bumbling fools.

The timeline laid out by Reach is far more realistic for both sides, taking Reach would be no cake-walk, no matter how powerful your forces are.

  • 06.13.2011 8:53 PM PDT
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Posted by: chotato
smart, interesting, seems out of place.


Official fan of Assassin's Creed, Call of Duty, (Problem with that?) Halo, and Bungie, also a total gaming junkie.

Nah, I'd be attacking Reach for a crap story.

  • 06.13.2011 9:08 PM PDT

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