Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: Thank you for Lying to my face, that makes me feel really good.
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Posted by: MoneyMan
DX10 = Vista only...end of story.

As it stands right now, any game utilizing DX10 will be Vista only. DX10 will not run on XP. DX10 is top of the line for game development, what would you do if you were a game developer starting a new project?

You are giving H2 too much credit here. The number of people that will purchase Vista to play H2PC will be an extremely small percentage (I would guess less than 1%) of the overall PC users running a Windows OS. I'm sure it played a factor in the decision, but overall this appears to be a technical decision to use the best available development platform.

One other note: Even if they had decided to make H2 a DX9 game, you most likely would still have to upgrade your PC to play it.



I think you're giving H2 too much credit. Why exactly would we have to upgrade our PC to play a 2 year old Xbox port? Bungie isn't going to take the time to completely revamp the engine and make it completely cutting-edge. By PC standards when it was released it wasn't all that cutting-edge.

List exactly what features, and technology Halo 2 PC is going to use that hasn't already been done, and released in a game such as Doom 3, FEAR, Quake 4, Far Cry, Half-Life 2 or any other graphic intensive shooter on PC.

Having trouble? It doesn't offer anything new. Nothing at all actually. I'm pretty sure it still uses specular textures and bump mapping - FEAR uses the new parallelix maping. If the game is ported with any kind of sense it shouldn't be a problem to run on current PC's. And before you say, " WELL DUH IDIOT HALO PC IS A HIGHSPEC GAMELOLZIWIN". You need to remember the Gearbox did a -blam!- port, it wasn't optimized to utilize PC hardware very well at all (hell, I can't even get it to run with Antialiasing without it coming up with an error), it was stated when it was released, and people don't seem to realize it now. Halo PC runs -blam!-, because it was designed -blam!-. They retooled the whole engine, but didn't take the time to tune the framerate or compatability.

If they do end up designing the game on Vista because of DX10, 64 bit archtecture, and miltithreading... it's definitely overkill.

  • 02.14.2006 9:19 AM PDT
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When I grow up I wanna program for microsoft!!!

  • 02.14.2006 9:24 AM PDT
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Anyway, there will be significant differences between the PC and the Xbox version. The PC for example, invariably runs at resolutions that aren't 480i. So there's that. The specs and features have been targeted, but not carved in stone, and things will change, so we're NOT going to announce anything more specific than you find here today.

One HUGE difference between Xbox and PC versions is the absence of Xbox Live. Now, much as a subset of you likes to -blam!- and moan about Live matchmaking, most of you agree it's a very nice way to find games in a hurry. But don't worry, we'll have a cool system for that, no doubt.



i would like to point out that they mentioned re-coding part of the game, and who can say they won't improve the game? perhaps they will use dx10 tech to improve performance and/or quality as compared to the xbox.

another thing i would like to point out is that you know nearly NOTHING about halo 2 pc, and you should stop acting as if you do. Stop assuming that everything in vista can be done in XP. stop assuming everything that can be done in dx10 can be done in dx9. Stop assuming that because it has the same title the game will be identical to the xbox version. Stop assuming all they are going to do is convert the game to code the PC can run.

If you are to argue, please use FACT and not ASSUMPTIONS. arguments based on assumptions are empty argument, and mean absolutely nothing. It is flawed logic to think that just because they havent told you about something means they arent doing something. Nowhere in your rights is listed the right to knowledge. This means that you may not know something, so stop acting as if you do. This entire argument about XP and Vista is foolish because no one here knows anything about what the final version of Vista can do. Not even Microsoft knows what the FINAL version will do. They haven't finished it yet. Give the issue time, and stop pissing and moaning about it now, and wait until it comes out and you have factual basis for your argument.

[Edited on 2/14/2006]

  • 02.14.2006 12:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: Mizonlive
When I grow up I wanna program for microsoft!!!


Oh my, I go by avatars here, so when I saw my avatar and this, I was like wtf mate.

  • 02.14.2006 1:16 PM PDT
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Yeah Chewy, didn't you know about your alter-ego that logs on and submits wacky posts when you're asleep?

Back to the topic at hand:
Why is this still being discussed? I grew bored with it after the first post...

  • 02.14.2006 1:28 PM PDT
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By the way, why is "lying" capitalized in the topic subject? This baffles me to no end...

  • 02.14.2006 1:30 PM PDT
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Lol Chewy, i know what you mean...

  • 02.14.2006 1:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: McKeegan_WRX
Yeah Chewy, didn't you know about your alter-ego that logs on and submits wacky posts when you're asleep?

Back to the topic at hand:
Why is this still being discussed? I grew bored with it after the first post...


Oh Em Gee! I feel you.

Well, at least the Monitor hasn't been tarnished with yet. It still stands for (more than a year as) a quirky resource of information and opinion. Good thing Grim Mouser's also been doing a good job so far.

(excuse the off-topicishness)

[Edited on 2/14/2006]

  • 02.14.2006 2:58 PM PDT
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Bungie isn't going to take the time to completely revamp the engine and make it completely cutting-edge. By PC standards when it was released it wasn't all that cutting-edge.


How do you know this? That's just your assumption. If you have a PC that can run FEAR and HL2 on decent resolutions then you may not have to upgrade. My guess is that a lot of people complaining here don't have PCs that could run those games on anything but the lowest settings.


List exactly what features, and technology Halo 2 PC is going to use that hasn't already been done, and released in a game such as Doom 3, FEAR, Quake 4, Far Cry, Half-Life 2 or any other graphic intensive shooter on PC.


Since the game is being developed in DX10, then there are a lot of features and technology that could be taken advantage of, so I think it is safe to assume that there will be additional technology in H2PC that was not in those games. Why would you think differently?


Having trouble? It doesn't offer anything new. Nothing at all actually. I'm pretty sure it still uses specular textures and bump mapping - FEAR uses the new parallelix maping. If the game is ported with any kind of sense it shouldn't be a problem to run on current PC's.


Again, how do you know this? Were you in some meeting with the developers to get this inside info, that we all missed out on?


You need to remember the Gearbox did a -blam!- port, it wasn't optimized to utilize PC hardware very well at all (hell, I can't even get it to run with Antialiasing without it coming up with an error), it was stated when it was released, and people don't seem to realize it now. Halo PC runs -blam!-, because it was designed -blam!-. They retooled the whole engine, but didn't take the time to tune the framerate or compatability.


This really isn't relevant to this topic, but since you went there.....the problems with the online play of Halo PC was the physics engine. This was a propietary engine written by Bungie and was not written to be played over anything but LAN (which it was fantastic at). You could retool the engine all you want, but it still would not have worked right over the internet. Why do you think they switched to a commercially available physics engine (Havok) for H2? The only solution would have been to completely strip the engine out and replace it with something like Havok, which just wasn't feasible, given the time constraints.


If they do end up designing the game on Vista because of DX10, 64 bit archtecture, and miltithreading... it's definitely overkill.


Maybe, but we'll just have to wait for the details to come out.



[Edited on 2/14/2006]

  • 02.14.2006 3:26 PM PDT

* Pr: ĭnʹtərnĕts: "I hear there's rumors on the uh (pause), Internets...

Ok, I agree with that statement, to an extent.

When you say "improve the graphical quality" I can see that happening, but I don't expect to see soft-shadows, dynamic lighting on everything, or even normal mapping on objects; you have to realize that they still are using the Halo 2 engine.

Now, they could add some extra effects, just as Gearbox did with Halo PC...take advantage of SM 3.0 in Halo 2 PC and it will look better than the original version, but still, not by much.

So, I agree: No second-guessing on their part.

Posted by: goweb
The Xbox actually uses something BASED ON DirectX 8, rather than the library you used to have on your PC.

And why do you suppose that the team porting Halo 2 aren't going to improve the graphical quality? Or maybe take advantage of a possible new sound library? Or even use a new networking library to improve the internet experience?

I don't know what the porting team have planned, and neither do you. All I know is that they know a hell of a lot more about what they have planned than any of us do. So don't try to second-guess them.


[Edited on 2/14/2006]

  • 02.14.2006 3:36 PM PDT
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in earlier previews of halo 2 and earlier screenshots the visual quality was much nicer than the finished version. Mainly the shadows are way better quality. I hope they put the full quality back into the pc version.

oh, and i havent seen anything to tarnish my avatar yet...

keyword... yet....

[Edited on 2/14/2006]

  • 02.14.2006 4:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: MoneyMan

Bungie isn't going to take the time to completely revamp the engine and make it completely cutting-edge. By PC standards when it was released it wasn't all that cutting-edge.


How do you know this? That's just your assumption. If you have a PC that can run FEAR and HL2 on decent resolutions then you may not have to upgrade. My guess is that a lot of people complaining here don't have PCs that could run those games on anything but the lowest settings.



Merely because I'm making assumptions doesn't mean I'm not using logic to come to my conclusion. I will admit to start, however, that you're right that not much info is released about the game, but I think people are expecting far too much from a port.

Considering that Halo PC was released, and that Bungie should have expected the outcry for Halo 2 to be ported as well, they should have at least started the port to coincide with the Xbox release. As it is, it's about 2 years late, and probably going to be another year before Vista is released - Bungie was behind on the port before it started. If Bungie decided to completely revamp the Halo 2 engine for PC to take advantage of many of the new technologies today (parallelix mapping, HDR, things such as that) how much longer would the port take?
It seems that they only started working on it recently, it took Gearbox an extra year past their original release date to fix the engine problems they encountered when making it (they had to essentially start from scratch) - and even then what we ended up with was an exact port with somewhat sharper textures and higher resolutions that ran poorly, even on systems well over the minimum specs.
As it is, it doesn't seem as if Bungie has alloted itself enough time to fully optimize the Halo 2 engine with all the graphical features that can be achieved on the PC platform. They are working with a deadline with Vista, and I'm sure Microsoft is pushing them to release at a similar time to maximize profit - just like they were rushed with Halo 2 for Xbox. As it is, at the most it looks like we'll have a port of Halo 2 with higher resolutions, and some DX10 features.

I didn't have to be in a secrete developer's meeting to come up with this idea. It's all pretty much right there in front of you.

Though, if Bungie does manage to pull some awesome new graphic features on Halo 2 PC, I'll be thoroughly impressed, and probably owe you a coke.


This really isn't relevant to this topic, but since you went there.....the problems with the online play of Halo PC was the physics engine. This was a propietary engine written by Bungie and was not written to be played over anything but LAN (which it was fantastic at). You could retool the engine all you want, but it still would not have worked right over the internet. Why do you think they switched to a commercially available physics engine (Havok) for H2? The only solution would have been to completely strip the engine out and replace it with something like Havok, which just wasn't feasible, given the time constraints.


Speaking of not being relevant, I don't think I mentioned online play at all in what I said. Perhaps you misread. The Halo PC online play is clunky, laggy and inaccurate, but I didn't go there. I was talking in reference to the overall framerate issues.
It stemmed from release, every review I read about the game had the same issue - even on their higher end testing systems, they encountered poor framerates at many points, obviously when there was action on screen or a lot of times even when there was nothing occuring on screen. It was poor engine and framerate optimization on Gearbox's part. The game is hard to run, but not because of it's graphical features (which really weren't all that impressive, it was nice to play the game with some clarity though), but because it was probably rushed (only took 4 years..?) and Gearbox didn't get to do what they needed to.


  • 02.14.2006 6:56 PM PDT
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You make some valid points Shifty...we'll just have to wait until some more details are released. I see a lot of people taking the position that MS is using H2PC to sell Vista, and while there may be some truth to that, I think H2PC will bring in more PC fans to the Halo franchise, helping to sell more copies of Halo 3. Halo PC, even though flawed, did bring a lot of PC gamers to Halo. Many of them bought an Xbox just to play Halo 2. My speculation is that Vista will be out this fall, with H2PC out next spring, and then Halo 3 (Xbox 360) out for Christmas of 07.

  • 02.15.2006 6:00 AM PDT
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Yes I agree, a lot will be revealed sooner or later... I suppose I just needed to get my 2 cents out.

I also agree that I think they're going to bring more fans to the franchise with H2PC, and in turn get more Halo 3 sales. They have it set up perfectly to achieve a large amount of sales. I honestly think it would be idiotic of MS to not use Halo 2 to push Vista - whether it makes use of the technology or not.

Though, in keeping with the spirit of the thread. MS and Bungie both could be more forthcoming with their intentions regarding this product placement... though, it's only mildly irritating at best.

  • 02.15.2006 11:57 AM PDT

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