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Subject: What is this... why must people be so dense.
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SC = Supreme Commander/Supreme Canadian.

De Facto leader of the military of the APE (Allied Planets Empire).

Coup = Admiral Asskicker, ZPM hive ship

1. Bungie is leaving the Halo franchise, and is giving us a going-away present, eg. Blue Flames and the Star Plate.

2. Armor Lock is balanced.

3. Yes, ODST's multiplayer sucked. Why bash it for that?

4. This is the big one. The Forerunners are a CULTURE-tier civilization. That means most other races from sci-fi are blasted away into sub-atomic particles. That includes the Feds, the Borg, the Galactic Empire, the Imperium of Man...

The only races that can pose a threat have time travel technology, and/or is a Von Neumann Swarm, and/or are ascended to a higher plane of existence/are gods.

  • 06.14.2011 9:54 AM PDT

1. Would be nicer if we got a free map too!

2. This is a debate for another time, but I don't think players becoming a hostile rock at their random whim is balanced. Great, traditional game play can be marred when game developers add stuff that allows players to ignore all damage. Armor lock just isn't any good for a competitive combat game.

3. ODST was good. Me wish Bungie didn't make Halo: Reach. They should have just made ODST and flesh out the concept.

4. HEY! The Federation is pretty competent and I feel that they can take on the Forerunners. The Fed can travel light years in minutes, generate any kind of food, teleport objects, time travel, and stop powerful energy weapons with shields.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 10:04 AM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 10:04 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
4. This is the big one. The Forerunners are a CULTURE-tier civilization. That means most other races from sci-fi are blasted away into sub-atomic particles. That includes the Feds, the Borg, the Galactic Empire, the Imperium of Man...

The only races that can pose a threat have time travel technology, and/or is a Von Neumann Swarm, and/or are ascended to a higher plane of existence/are gods.

Can you people only enjoy a story if you know that it has bigger imaginary numbers than other story universes? I don't think most people actually care who has bigger imaginary numbers. For example, I could not care less if the Reapers are inferior to the Flood or whatever due to them having smaller imaginary numbers in their guns, they are a better crafted enemy than the Flood in my opinion.

  • 06.14.2011 10:18 AM PDT

+1 to above, nothing worse than 'willy waving' numbers like those of Star Wars. Mass Effect as a whole is better thought out than the likes of Star Wars and such, would also agree that besides being 'random' the Reapers are a more 'interesting' enemy than the Flood who are just obvious and annoying.

the Flood are just like zombies in cliche zombie movies, where they somehow take over the world, all armed resistance just vanishes conveniently. the Flood destroy races with 'god like' technology (Forerunner), that makes no sense at all, no virus or bacterial specimen is perfect. the fact that the Flood are claimed to be 'unstoppable' within starving them of food is preposterous and just dilutes anything that makes them interesting as a potential enemy.

  • 06.14.2011 10:42 AM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
the Flood are just like zombies in cliche zombie movies, where they somehow take over the world, all armed resistance just vanishes conveniently. the Flood destroy races with 'god like' technology (Forerunner), that makes no sense at all, no virus or bacterial specimen is perfect. the fact that the Flood are claimed to be 'unstoppable' within starving them of food is preposterous and just dilutes anything that makes them interesting as a potential enemy.

The Flood had their chance in my opinion, but Bungie missed the mark. Completely. That is why I really, really don't want the Prisoner in Cryptum to be the Gravemind. The Gravemind is not terrifying at all. Gravemind was like a generic parasite lord in Halo 3, who's motives where not alluded to or speculated about at all. It was just "This is a bad guy, so just go and stop him". The Prisoner is actually the only enemy in Halo thus far that has had a genuine sense of dread surrounding him in my opinion. We've all seen the Gravemind, he ain't nothing special.

  • 06.14.2011 10:56 AM PDT

1) Okay, cool

2) You're right

3) ...it didn't have multiplayer

4) Oh my god who the hell cares!

-Peter Grifin

  • 06.14.2011 11:00 AM PDT


Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
4. This is the big one. The Forerunners are a CULTURE-tier civilization. That means most other races from sci-fi are blasted away into sub-atomic particles. That includes the Feds, the Borg, the Galactic Empire, the Imperium of Man...

The only races that can pose a threat have time travel technology, and/or is a Von Neumann Swarm, and/or are ascended to a higher plane of existence/are gods.

Can you people only enjoy a story if you know that it has bigger imaginary numbers than other story universes? I don't think most people actually care who has bigger imaginary numbers. For example, I could not care less if the Reapers are inferior to the Flood or whatever due to them having smaller imaginary numbers in their guns, they are a better crafted enemy than the Flood in my opinion.


I've yet to hear much about this "Culture-tier civilization" beyond "They beat everything, and that's not bull-blam!-!"

I mean... culture-tier? How does that make any sense as a name... EVERYBODY has culture...

Agreed to your points Anton, it's annoying when people feel like Halo HAS to be able to beat everything else.

  • 06.14.2011 11:02 AM PDT


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: SC Matt Klassen
4. This is the big one. The Forerunners are a CULTURE-tier civilization. That means most other races from sci-fi are blasted away into sub-atomic particles. That includes the Feds, the Borg, the Galactic Empire, the Imperium of Man...

The only races that can pose a threat have time travel technology, and/or is a Von Neumann Swarm, and/or are ascended to a higher plane of existence/are gods.

Can you people only enjoy a story if you know that it has bigger imaginary numbers than other story universes? I don't think most people actually care who has bigger imaginary numbers. For example, I could not care less if the Reapers are inferior to the Flood or whatever due to them having smaller imaginary numbers in their guns, they are a better crafted enemy than the Flood in my opinion.


I've yet to hear much about this "Culture-tier civilization" beyond "They beat everything, and that's not bull-blam!-!"

I mean... culture-tier? How does that make any sense as a name... EVERYBODY has culture...

Agreed to your points Anton, it's annoying when people feel like Halo HAS to be able to beat everything else.


The Culture is a book series by a very famous sci-fi Author I cant remember the name of (Steven Baxter...?). They were unbelievably advanced, but I don't know anything about it beyond that point.

Oh, and Plutonium, name one flaw in the Flood's design. You seem to be under the impression they are only just a space zombie. Take a closer look at the Gravemind, consider everything and you'll get why the Forerunners lost.

  • 06.14.2011 11:09 AM PDT

Oh hey there

Posted by: petarded2
It's a metaphor for the 07s' lack of identity. too old to be newfa­g, yet too new to be oldfa­g, we wander b.net in search of a home, forever trying to be something we are not.

Posted by: bat out of h3ll
4. HEY! The Federation is pretty competent
That made me laugh.

  • 06.14.2011 11:21 AM PDT

Posted by: anton1792
Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
the Flood are just like zombies in cliche zombie movies, where they somehow take over the world, all armed resistance just vanishes conveniently. the Flood destroy races with 'god like' technology (Forerunner), that makes no sense at all, no virus or bacterial specimen is perfect. the fact that the Flood are claimed to be 'unstoppable' within starving them of food is preposterous and just dilutes anything that makes them interesting as a potential enemy.

The Flood had their chance in my opinion, but Bungie missed the mark. Completely. That is why I really, really don't want the Prisoner in Cryptum to be the Gravemind. The Gravemind is not terrifying at all. Gravemind was like a generic parasite lord in Halo 3, who's motives where not alluded to or speculated about at all.
They were discussed in the terminals, specifically legendary #2, #3 and #4. The flood thinks that it's the next step in the progression of the universe, bringing all sentient beings into eternal unity.

  • 06.14.2011 11:26 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

2. armor lock isn't balanced since it is only defensive.

3. ODSt didn't have multiplayer far as i am aware

4. there are a few races that can actually beat or compare to the forerunners.

  • 06.14.2011 11:28 AM PDT


Posted by: Spartan1065
Posted by: bat out of h3ll
4. HEY! The Federation is pretty competent
That made me laugh.


What? they make -blam!- up and it automatically works!

Joking aside, the Federation is fairly decent, however their lack of warships, and complete lack of ground weaponry/items (Armor, weapons beyond pistols and rifles, etc.) screws them over in combat. Especially compared to other universes.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 11:47 AM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 11:37 AM PDT

how are they not a 'space zombie' race? look at what happens in a zombie film for example when these walking dead people manage to somehow disable a tank and kill the occupants, how are they accomplishing this? same thing applies to the Forerunner, they are supremely advanced, would assume they didn't just 'welcome' the Flood onto their warships and such? either that or the Forerunner were an incredibly inept race who kept all their 'tactical' information public knowledge for anyone to get their eyes on, in which case they deserve everything coming to them.

also the Flood are a parasite, if Forerunner wear this 'armour' of theirs almost all the time, for all their lives how do they become infected by the Flood? if I wear a Space Suit I absolutely cannot be infected by an outside virus, bacteria or parasite, there are so many terrible plot 'caverns', not just holes in the Flood background and overall story. also they aren't scary in the slightest, never once (all games!) have I once been 'afraid' of a Flood or thought 'man that is freaky.!' so for that point alone the Flood fail, all they are is an inconvenience, at best.

can tell you, an advancing horde of Zerg or Tyranids would be countlessly times more frightening than an advancing horde of what looks deformed people. that is what makes the Zerg such an effective enemy, they are horrific, they are deadly, they don't pretend to be 'the almighty' species but they are lethal at what they do which is land on a planet and start tearing things up, at first they stood no chance against the advanced Protoss and were even just a nuisance to the Terrans, it was only when massed swarms started appearing that things turned bad. same applies to Tyranids, and again that is what makes them such an interesting and horrible race, they are vicious beyond believe, fast and feral, don't attack in a 'logical' or 'intelligent' way, they are just like nightmare animals which is why you fear them!

also I am well aware of how the Flood defeated the Forerunner, but it still doesn't make it any less 'mediocre' and I am a proper Halo fan! Humans in Halo are brilliant, bit primitive but otherwise the foundation is there for a great science fiction human race, the Covenant are awesome, you both fear them and laugh at them depending on who you face, but for me the Flood have no redeeming qualities, they are just another annoying space-zombie race that magically infect your armour troopers, steal all your secrets, all your knowledge, all your warships (not sure how they are achieving this one!) and of course can't be stopped in any way shape or form without wiping out every last sentient life-form in the galaxy, doesn't make a difference that in the games Sentinels make them look like maggots and that a SPARTAN with a flame-thrower can kill as many Flood as he likes, the greatest, most advanced race that ever existed got steam-rolled! doesn't make a difference that horrible, nasty virus like HIV and such forth are now being targeted by genetically altered versions of a virus and such, because the Forerunner are obviously too retarded to engineer an effective 'counter' to the Flood.

in addition, the Forerunner had weapons that could 'devastate' planets, even stars, they could do more or less everything except stop a humble parasite, the amusement, bet god was sitting on a cloud somewhere having a right old laugh at those poor fools, the race with 'trillions of ships' and 'weapons that can destroy Halo in seconds', reminds me strangely of what happens in Resident Evil, some zombies get loose and bang! the whole world is controlled by zombies, doesn't matter that machine-guns would tear them apart faster than a vicious dog taking on a stuffed toy, or tanks that they could bash on for all of time and not get into (with sealed environments), the list goes on, so that is how the Flood are just another 'zombie' race.

  • 06.14.2011 11:39 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Flood are not space zombies, you just fail to understand their context.

as for the armor infection, notice how in origins the infection form rips the head off and then infects the forerunner.

problem solved.

You act as if they couldn't take a piece of the armor off, not to mention the tendrils of the infection form would pierce through any weak spots.

  • 06.14.2011 11:42 AM PDT


Posted by: grey101
2. armor lock isn't balanced since it is only defensive.

3. ODSt didn't have multiplayer far as i am aware

4. there are a few races that can actually beat or compare to the forerunners.


For example:

Compete:

The Culture
The Rakatan
The Celestials
The Xel 'Naga

Will stomp:

The Xeelee (no need to explain)
Time Lords (unless the Forerunners had time travel)

And thats all I can think of. The Forerunners are not the pinnicale of technological achievement in science fiction. Their are a few--though only a few--who could compare.

  • 06.14.2011 11:43 AM PDT


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
in addition, the Forerunner had weapons that could 'devastate' planets, even stars, they could do more or less everything except stop a humble parasite, the amusement, bet god was sitting on a cloud somewhere having a right old laugh at those poor fools, the race with 'trillions of ships' and 'weapons that can destroy Halo in seconds', reminds me strangely of what happens in Resident Evil, some zombies get loose and bang! the whole world is controlled by zombies, doesn't matter that machine-guns would tear them apart faster than a vicious dog taking on a stuffed toy, or tanks that they could bash on for all of time and not get into (with sealed environments), the list goes on, so that is how the Flood are just another 'zombie' race.


Yeah... pointed that out when people were talking about how super-powerful the Forerunners were. "If, as you say, infantry can destroy continents, how the hell did they lose to the flood?" (A statement which was proven false about the infantry firepower.)

I don't get how the flood getting a few forerunner ships suddenly makes them all powerful enough destroy the forerunner tech I've heard about...

Note, I have not read cryptum yet.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 11:54 AM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 11:51 AM PDT
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The Culture is a book series by a very famous sci-fi Author I cant remember the name of (Steven Baxter...?)

Iain Banks. He also writes regular literary fiction.

  • 06.14.2011 11:57 AM PDT

@Plutoniumn

The Flood's most basic, most primitive tactic is "zombification." The Flood is, in actual context, a biological impersonation of a demi-god/god that bends the universe to his will. You know him as the Gravemind.

Understandably, at first glance, one would initially percieve them as a mindless parasite, thusly losing all interest in them at the start, as is apparently what happened with you. I actually gave a crap and looked into them more. What I found was intriguing.

I, too, saw them as just zombies. Now, I see them--or him, I should say--as the king of the universe.

I have concluded: The Flood is a singular macroorganism that exists for one purpose: to punish all life for defying the Timeless One's Mantle. His twisted mind feels the denizins of this galaxy are impure and that they do not let themselves evolve to a higher state, rather give themselves to war. War is the polar opposite to the Mantle. Perhaps the Gravemind feels he is the ultimate of evolution and feels, by the Mantle, he has more right to exist with his Flood then the simpler organisms such as ourselves

Either way, this "space zombie" you so quickly cast aside as beig a generic enemy has never, ever, in any depiction of the Haloverse, shown their true form. Read the terminals. Billions of the Flood's creatures in one battle, one swarm. Each one tailored to a specific task, built by the Gravemind's genius to accomplish any task it wishes.

From smaller, human-sized swarms built to attack individuals, to mammoth, city-sized behemoths meant to flatten everything, the Flood is the ultimate force in the Haloverse. That is the Flood.

The Gravemind thinks, it calculates, it has the knowledge of an entire galaxy in time at its disposal. Its intellect is infinite and it doesn't even have a corporeal form. The Flood is merely its pawn in the physical world; The Mind himself, as we understand him, exists only as a consciousness. You can try to fight him, you can delay him, but how do you kill that which cannot be shot? That which does not exist? Ever notice how he always comes back?

I, personally, find him to be a terrifying enemy.

You just don't understand the Flood's nature well enough. Understandable, but necessary to know for discussions.

[Edited on 06.14.2011 12:00 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 11:58 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron

Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
in addition, the Forerunner had weapons that could 'devastate' planets, even stars, they could do more or less everything except stop a humble parasite, the amusement, bet god was sitting on a cloud somewhere having a right old laugh at those poor fools, the race with 'trillions of ships' and 'weapons that can destroy Halo in seconds', reminds me strangely of what happens in Resident Evil, some zombies get loose and bang! the whole world is controlled by zombies, doesn't matter that machine-guns would tear them apart faster than a vicious dog taking on a stuffed toy, or tanks that they could bash on for all of time and not get into (with sealed environments), the list goes on, so that is how the Flood are just another 'zombie' race.


Yeah... pointed that out when people were talking about how super-powerful the Forerunners were. "If, as you say, infantry can destroy continents, how the hell did they lose to the flood?" (A statement which was proven false about the infantry firepower.)

I don't get how the flood getting a few forerunner ships suddenly makes them all powerful enough destroy the forerunner tech I've heard about...

Note, I have not read cryptum yet.


you not reading cryptum explains it. and not to sound rude or directed at you, but if you haven't read the book then don't talk about it.


They lost to the flood due to

1. MB turning to them, which in all honesty was the main reason.

2. they were fighting the war in secret, thus they couldn't truly commit everything to it.

3.politics. they didn't take the flood seriously so they spent 10,000 years playing around instead of taking action.

4. The mantle. they were trying to "cure" the flood or atleast stop it from infecting everything. the goal wasn't to kill it. Which if it were they obviously could have.

  • 06.14.2011 11:59 AM PDT

so hold on a second, how is a Flood spore thing going to get through my bullet proof armoured suit? I am the original person and this is the original Flood spore, might as well sit down and relax because its going to take the little critter the rest of time to get through me armour, since it high velocity bullets can't penetrate it, will be damned if a weird critter with tentacles is going to cause me harm! Forerunner armour is how much more advanced than SPARTAN armour dare I ask? this is like wearing a bullet proof vest only for it to be penetrated by some random blokes finger, it just doesn't work!

the fact is, the Flood advanced by taking over victims and such, the problem is how do they achieve this, without totally neglecting certain things like 'a critter with tentacles absolutely cannot penetrate the armour of a tank' for example? my warship has two airlocks on it, both of them are sealed, how are the Flood boarding my ship since there is physically no other way onto it? also how can they not be space zombies, their combat forms hunker along, dragging their feet in a zombie like fashion, randomly trying to bash you in the face for an unknown reason, how is that not a zombie? they re-animate corpses, how is that not zombie?! with something like the Zerg from Starcraft its understandable how they kill stuff, they are after-all horrific, mutated creates with claws the size of people and mouths bigger than peoples heads, but the Flood, seriously? also the Zerg actually seem to be 'evolving' through their conquests where-as the Flood seems continually stuck in this retarded, leg-dragging zombie form, moving along with their long arm and their tentacles.

also well aware they can fire guns, but since they are basically zombies with a long arm, a crooked head and a dodgy foot, how are they killing my blokes to take their guns in the first place, I am still sitting here messing about with this critter as all this is going down, s-blam!-ing at how inept it is, wondering what sort of stuff to have for lunch...? the question is how do the Flood attain this sort of stuff, especially when combating the most advanced and powerful species known to have existed. 'dear me a planet has been taken over by a bunch of dodgy critters with tentacles, no Forerunner life-signs detected...?', apparently the answer to this must have been 'dear me! we best put on our inept heads and go down there for a closer look at this impressive parasite, what is the worse that could happen...' and the rest is Halo history.

Edit: the amusing thing is, I did read the book, like I have the rest of them, and the thing is that Bias betraying the Forerunner is all fine, sure why not? but the Flood itself is still the T-virus in space, where its awesome but not really sure why its awesome! the other side of the problem is, the Forerunner are made out to be almost deity like, which makes their downfall to the Flood even more weird! well aware that a biological weapon, released in Heathrow Airport for example could cause massive damage to the world-wide population, but we aren't Forerunner wearing super-advanced life support suits with weird funky energy shields making us almost invulnerable from personal injury or disease. not see where I am coming from here?

[Edited on 06.14.2011 12:07 PM PDT]

  • 06.14.2011 12:02 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Mutoid Log
They were discussed in the terminals, specifically legendary #2, #3 and #4. The flood thinks that it's the next step in the progression of the universe, bringing all sentient beings into eternal unity.

I am aware. These however are never alluded to in game. You have to go and read the terminals to find it out. Not being mentioned about in game, or alluded to or emphasized in any way as you face the Flood makes these motives feel disjointed with the Flood you are facing in the game at that time.

  • 06.14.2011 12:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

it was an infection form pluto and it jumped on the head and ripped it off. Even chief with his spartan strong had trouble dealing with them when they swarmed him.


Forerunner gets swarmed by infection forms, gets overrun, infection forms maul at the armor until they can infect it.


Your ignorance is starting to annoy me.


The first flood outbreak was on the outskirts of forerunner space on a planet that "was not inhabited". the forerunners on that planet wore no armor nor did they have weapons. So when the flood arrived en mass on the planet they took it over with ease.

When the month resupply ship came they took that also, and when the planet stopped reporting and a survey team was sent in; they took that also.

  • 06.14.2011 12:11 PM PDT

Roberto, that may be true, but the flood have (bar maybe crpytum?) not gotten anything beyond combat form/pure form status in the games and The Flood. We can't understand the nature of it if it has hardly been explained.

And yeah, the zerg do evolve. They get a useful trait (Resistance to extreme cold weather for an example from SC2), the mutate across the swarm to get that resistance. I've never seen the flood doing something similar.

  • 06.14.2011 12:12 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
I've never seen the flood doing something similar.


but we haven't seen a full flood outbreak yet have we? therefore we can't make assumptions based of "little" infections.

  • 06.14.2011 12:14 PM PDT

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