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Subject: bungie was going where Cryptum went
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I haven't read Cryptum, so I can't completely hate on it yet, but I have my qualms with the information I've gotten about it. I'm sure the quality of the writing is fine, and so is most of the lore, but I really don't like the idea of an ancient space-faring humanity. It completely throws our knowledge of human evolution out the window. I've also heard that our species isn't even related to the other forms of life on Earth, although I'm not sure if that's true. If it is, it's pretty disappointing. I mean, in fiction and especially in fantasy and science-fiction, you're obviously going to get some parts where reality has to be suspended for the plot or canon, but you have to draw a line or it seems ridiculous.


If you haven't read cryptum twice you shouldn't talk about it whatsoever.


Ummm you shouldn't talk like an arrogant ass. Every post I see from you always looks like you hold a major grudge against anyone who doesn't hold the same opinion. Calm down, guy.


It was implied that earth wasn't even the original homeworld of humanity thus opening up a window.
And bornsteller did mention that the fossil record would be messed up with the de-evolution (which is interesting becuase in real life the date is constantly being pushed back).
and we are still related to everything (don't know where that idea came from)


When you say that Earth isn't the original homeworld, do you really mean our species only or all life on Earth? Just clarifying. If we (-blam!- sapiens sapiens) originate on another planet but the rest of Earth's flora and fauna don't, then how are we related to them at all? Also, Cryptum tries to account for the various extinct human species by saying that the Forerunners "devolved" us. Forgive my ignorance, but when did this occur? I've read that the space-faring humans lived about 200,000 BCE (which is, in reality, right around the time that our species first speciated from [probably] H. heidelbergensis), yet we can date our ancestors H. erectus/ergaster as having a nearly two million year existence, the most long lived of all human species. If we can date a H. erectus specimen to living that long ago, then wouldn't that give evidence that contradicts the idea that the Forerunners "devolved" us? I mean, I don't really expect a logical answer because as I've said before, there are places in fiction where it's going to conflict with reality. Just trying to figure out where those lines are.





Anybody that has truly read cryptum will tell you the same thing so i don't see how that is coming off as arrogant. there is too much information for you to not read the book and then say how you don't like it and or don't think it adds up. not to mention when you finally do get it your going to have to re-read it for all the information to sink in. and i couldn't careless what you think about me, you have only been here a few months not to mention at the end of an era.



And this is exactly why i said if you haven't read the book then you shouldn't be trying to get involved with it and i don't understand how hard it is to buy the book. so unless you post something really stupid after this; this will be the last post i have with you regarding the events of the book.

*Sigh* bornsteller said (paraphrasing) that to the best of forerunner technology they believed that Erde-Tyrene (earth) was the birth place of humanity. It then later says that they probably moved their empire to avoid forerunner control, which is where i am guessing dinosaurs come in.
Keep in mind that they are talking about ancient humanity meaning if earth was their original homeworld then they were around far far longer; modern man hasn't appeared just yet in cryptum and that is what we are.


seriously just get the damn book, i hate when people do stuff like this.

  • 06.18.2011 8:44 PM PDT


Posted by: dahuterschuter

Posted by: grey101
your pretty much the only person that thinks that, so i feel for your opinion.


On this forum at least. There's a few others who share that view here though. I really just don't understand how people can herald Cryptum as the best Halo novel when it's the worst Halo anything.


I'm getting the impression you're hating Cryptum for no good reason. Perhaps you hate Greg Bear. Perhaps you feel the Forerunner story should have been left untouched. But, I, along with others, have asked you and others who share similar opinions what was so "unimaginitive" about Cryptum, but I've never gotten an answer, only more "it was bad because it was bad."

It was a well written, itroduction story meant to send our brains for a hurdle. So just wtf was so wrong with it? The lack of action?

Thats another thing that bugs me about Cryptum haters. They seem to hate it because there's virtually no action scenes in it, as if the story comes secondary in their minds and the only reason they remain hooked on the other books is the action. The over-use of action scenes is just poor writing, like the author cant think of anyway to keep the story compelling so resorts to that. Cryptum was a breath of fresh air.

Please don't tell me you're one of them who loves action, not story.

[Edited on 06.18.2011 8:55 PM PDT]

  • 06.18.2011 8:54 PM PDT

I love the entire Halo series, Halo 2 being my favorite of the games. I think that the universe is compelling and the story is deep, sweeping, and powerful. The hidden layers in the Halo trilogy and rich details of the backstory in the novels are something I love to be lost in, and im greatly looking forward to the story that Halo: Reach will weave. Bungie has carefully and lovingly crafted a mythic tale that will stay etched in my mind until the end.


Posted by: grey101

Posted by: xGCx Hierarchs
are you stupid? when the flood starts a war the first thing they do is form a gravemind, because without one they are mindless, so since the forerunners and flood have a 300 year war your telling me that there was no gravemind? yeah right


Did you read cryptum before calling me stupid? and do you even understand what i have been saying?


I said there was no gravemind during the human- flood war, please read before posting mindlessly idoit.
And after cryptum we have no idea if the gravemind is an actual stage of the flood or the same being from that time (since it wasn't killed)


"I have defeated fleets of THOUSANDS. Reduced the galaxy to flesh, and mind, and BONE!!"-Halo 3

If that gives any hint to anything.

[Edited on 06.18.2011 9:49 PM PDT]

  • 06.18.2011 9:48 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: The Shepherd214

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: xGCx Hierarchs
are you stupid? when the flood starts a war the first thing they do is form a gravemind, because without one they are mindless, so since the forerunners and flood have a 300 year war your telling me that there was no gravemind? yeah right


Did you read cryptum before calling me stupid? and do you even understand what i have been saying?


I said there was no gravemind during the human- flood war, please read before posting mindlessly idoit.
And after cryptum we have no idea if the gravemind is an actual stage of the flood or the same being from that time (since it wasn't killed)


"I have defeated fleets of THOUSANDS. Reduced the galaxy to flesh, and mind, and BONE!!"-Halo 3

If that gives any hint to anything.


It's consumed not reduced and it hints that you don't know what you are talking about

  • 06.18.2011 9:54 PM PDT
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The Forerunners did devolve humanity, in terms of technology. I do not remember where it said humanity did not originate from Earth or Erde Tryenne, it is common Halo knowledge that after the Human-Forerunner War the Forerunners destroyed almost all of humanity's technology and pushed them back into their home planet, a la Earth.

There almost certainly was a Gravemind during the Human-Flood War, otherwise the Flood would not have been able to coordinate any form of organized resistance. They would be true mindless zombies, and could not share knowledge, and therefore could not work together. They would not have been able to commandeer star ships. That Gravemind was destroyed, but some remnants of the remaining Flood army was left on Gliese 291-G, where the Forerunners first met the Flood.

  • 06.18.2011 10:23 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101

Way to prove my point of sounding like a condescending -blam!- in every post. Each post in this thread, you sound like one. I've never seen you post in any other way on this forum. Also, the age of my Bungie account has no bearing on my activity, knowledge, and fandom within the Halo universe.

"which is where I'm guessing dinosaurs come in" - um what does that even mean? You say "just get the book", but you don't answer my questions even though you act like a superior ass because you have the knowledge. It's true, you have the book and you know more about it than I do. You should be able to answer my questions regarding human evolution. Even if we are under the assumption that ancient humanity comes from elsewhere, why then are there two million year old fossils H. erectus on Earth?

This is taken from Halopedian, so it can't be taken automatically 100% true, but here you go: "Around 150,000-110,000 BCE, before the Human-Forerunner wars, humanity had achieved a Technological Achievement system of Tier 1, on par with the Forerunners, although their catastrophic defeat by the Forerunners would see them reduced to a pre-industrial state as hunter-gatherer tribes, forced to achieve technological sophistication again."

Why are there fossils of human ancestors that are millions of years old, then? Even if the Forerunners "devolved" us, all the extinct hominid species should still be radiometrically dated at atleast <150,000. This makes species like H. neanderthalensis and H. floresiensis acceptable, but older humans do not fit the bill, not to mention the Australopithecines and Ardipithecines.

If you can't answer that, that's fine, that's just going to be where the fiction fails to line up with reality.

[Edited on 06.18.2011 10:53 PM PDT]

  • 06.18.2011 10:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Way to prove my point of sounding like a condescending -blam!- in every post. Each post in this thread, you sound like one. I've never seen you post in any other way on this forum. Also, the age of my Bungie account has no bearing on my activity, knowledge, and fandom within the Halo universe.

"which is where I'm guessing dinosaurs come in" - um what does that even mean? You say "just get the book", but you don't answer my questions even though you act like a superior ass because you have the knowledge. It's true, you have the book and you know more about it than I do. You should be able to answer my questions regarding human evolution. Even if we are under the assumption that ancient humanity comes from elsewhere, why then are there two million year old fossils H. erectus on Earth?

This is taken from Halopedian, so it can't be taken automatically 100% true, but here you go: "Around 150,000-110,000 BCE, before the Human-Forerunner wars, humanity had achieved a Technological Achievement system of Tier 1, on par with the Forerunners, although their catastrophic defeat by the Forerunners would see them reduced to a pre-industrial state as hunter-gatherer tribes, forced to achieve technological sophistication again."

Why are there fossils of human ancestors that are millions of years old, then? Even if the Forerunners "devolved" us, all the extinct hominid species should still be radiometrically dated at atleast <150,000. This makes species like H. neanderthalensis and H. floresiensis acceptable, but older humans do not fit the bill, not to mention the Australopithecines and Ardipithecines.

If you can't answer that, that's fine, that's just going to be where the fiction fails to line up with reality.


your age is relevant because you haven't seen any of my other post for the 4 plus year i have been here, i am more agitated right now for reasons other senior members here can explain. but that isn't important.

can you stop being so emotional and just read the information? the point of me saying "this is where the dinosaurs come in" was stating this might have been the time humanity left earth and moved their empire. and not every single answer was answered in the book which is why there are going to be 2 more and numerous media around it, not everything is going to be told ASAP.



Posted by: Halo Fan Forever
The Forerunners did devolve humanity, in terms of technology. I do not remember where it said humanity did not originate from Earth or Erde Tryenne, it is common Halo knowledge that after the Human-Forerunner War the Forerunners destroyed almost all of humanity's technology and pushed them back into their home planet, a la Earth.

There almost certainly was a Gravemind during the Human-Flood War, otherwise the Flood would not have been able to coordinate any form of organized resistance. They would be true mindless zombies, and could not share knowledge, and therefore could not work together. They would not have been able to commandeer star ships. That Gravemind was destroyed, but some remnants of the remaining Flood army was left on Gliese 291-G, where the Forerunners first met the Flood.


that was said in the first chapter with bornsteller going to earth and remember i said implied please don't paraphrase something like that.

you are relating the current flood to the first outbreak in which they were not the same. I am hesitant to call them "primitive" because they were more deadly in numerous ways, but they weren't like the current form of flood that was reach after leaving the galaxy for 10,000 years.

The humans nor didact spoke of the flood having a compoundmind, which is why most of the theorist are drawn between the prisoner being the gravemind. And they were "true mindless zombies" all of this is in the book which is exactly why you have to read it more than once.
the flood back then could do everything it can now minus gravemind privileges.

again you need to re-read cryptum. the forerunners had already been fighting the flood remnants in the galaxy for 300 years that had been left on human controlled planets.

In the new halo evolutions story "soma the painter" it explains that the planet seaward or to you Gliese 291-G was a forerunner planet on the edge or the galaxy that was controlled by only the richest and therefore hidden from the planet (think onyx). They didn't wear armor, brought few weapons, and a cargo ship came once month for food.

One day 10,000 years later the flood arrived again and took control of the planet. a communication was sent to the didact (who didn't know of the planet) and this is where the terminals come into play.

[Edited on 06.19.2011 7:39 AM PDT]

  • 06.19.2011 7:38 AM PDT


Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Way to prove my point of sounding like a condescending -blam!- in every post. Each post in this thread, you sound like one. I've never seen you post in any other way on this forum. Also, the age of my Bungie account has no bearing on my activity, knowledge, and fandom within the Halo universe.

"which is where I'm guessing dinosaurs come in" - um what does that even mean? You say "just get the book", but you don't answer my questions even though you act like a superior ass because you have the knowledge. It's true, you have the book and you know more about it than I do. You should be able to answer my questions regarding human evolution. Even if we are under the assumption that ancient humanity comes from elsewhere, why then are there two million year old fossils H. erectus on Earth?

This is taken from Halopedian, so it can't be taken automatically 100% true, but here you go: "Around 150,000-110,000 BCE, before the Human-Forerunner wars, humanity had achieved a Technological Achievement system of Tier 1, on par with the Forerunners, although their catastrophic defeat by the Forerunners would see them reduced to a pre-industrial state as hunter-gatherer tribes, forced to achieve technological sophistication again."

Why are there fossils of human ancestors that are millions of years old, then? Even if the Forerunners "devolved" us, all the extinct hominid species should still be radiometrically dated at atleast <150,000. This makes species like H. neanderthalensis and H. floresiensis acceptable, but older humans do not fit the bill, not to mention the Australopithecines and Ardipithecines.

If you can't answer that, that's fine, that's just going to be where the fiction fails to line up with reality.


Grey 101, I agree with this guy. First off, you're wrong. It is explicitly stated in Cryptum humanity DID originate on Earth, expanded outward, got the -blam!- kicked out of it by the Foreunners, and were dumped back on earth forever by them.

I've been on the Bungie forums for five years now, yet only joined about a year and a half ago. He has been reading your posts.

You cannot deny that when somone doesn't share your opinions about something, you immedietly get hostile, call them stupid or otherwise chastize them for being "wrong" in your eyes, followed immedietely by "read Crypum" or other similar viariations.

That is not to say you're any worse then anyone else. Same goes for me. I've been banned for flamming and thoroughly regret it. But it is still no less deniable.

So both of you just chill and lets talk about this in a mature manner. Don't let this turn into the Flood forums.

[Edited on 06.19.2011 7:52 AM PDT]

  • 06.19.2011 7:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: ROBERTO jh

Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Way to prove my point of sounding like a condescending -blam!- in every post. Each post in this thread, you sound like one. I've never seen you post in any other way on this forum. Also, the age of my Bungie account has no bearing on my activity, knowledge, and fandom within the Halo universe.

"which is where I'm guessing dinosaurs come in" - um what does that even mean? You say "just get the book", but you don't answer my questions even though you act like a superior ass because you have the knowledge. It's true, you have the book and you know more about it than I do. You should be able to answer my questions regarding human evolution. Even if we are under the assumption that ancient humanity comes from elsewhere, why then are there two million year old fossils H. erectus on Earth?

This is taken from Halopedian, so it can't be taken automatically 100% true, but here you go: "Around 150,000-110,000 BCE, before the Human-Forerunner wars, humanity had achieved a Technological Achievement system of Tier 1, on par with the Forerunners, although their catastrophic defeat by the Forerunners would see them reduced to a pre-industrial state as hunter-gatherer tribes, forced to achieve technological sophistication again."

Why are there fossils of human ancestors that are millions of years old, then? Even if the Forerunners "devolved" us, all the extinct hominid species should still be radiometrically dated at atleast <150,000. This makes species like H. neanderthalensis and H. floresiensis acceptable, but older humans do not fit the bill, not to mention the Australopithecines and Ardipithecines.

If you can't answer that, that's fine, that's just going to be where the fiction fails to line up with reality.


Grey 101, I agree with this guy. First off, you're wrong. It is explicitly stated in Cryptum humanity DID originate on Earth, expanded outward, got the -blam!- kicked out of it by the Foreunners, and were dumped back on earth forever by them.

I've been on the Bungie forums for five years now, yet only joined about a year and a half ago. He has been reading your posts.

You cannot deny that when somone doesn't share your opinions about something, you immedietly get hostile, call them stupid or otherwise chastize them for being "wrong" in your eyes, followed immedietely by "read Crypum" or other similar viariations.

That is not to say you're any worse then anyone else. Same goes for me. I've been banned for flamming and thoroughly regret it. But it is still no less deniable.

So both of you just chill and lets talk about this in a mature manner. Don't let this turn into the Flood forums.


page 20 "...that to the best of forerunner research humans had indeed arisen on Erde-Tyrene, but over 50,000 years ago had moved their civilization outward along the galactic arm to perhaps flee early forerunner control"

that is what i have been referring to and i am aware that the page before that bornsteller states that was our homeworld and i believe the didact implies something towards the end of the book also.

I wouldn't fully trust bornstellars account seeing how he is only 12 and didn't know anything that was going on in the galaxy, and the fact that something like this was even said was eye catching. So until we get a human or more accurate confirmation than it isn't a fact as of yet.

I don't get hostile, anton doesn't fully agree with my idea of the mantle being fake but he does acknowledge why i think so. I get hostile with people like jonx that twist information up or just get plain stupid, if i was hostile and immature as your implying i wouldn't be messaged to "get back to the universe forum" everytime i post on a different forum or website.

not to mention if i wanted everybody to agree with me and my ideas i would post my theories all over the place and nottell people to read the books but accept my facts. Yet i can not think of a time where i told somebody not to read something and i haven't posted a theroy for months (though i have dozens).

And i (along with everybody else) tell them to go read the book because you aren't going to understand it with half ass summarizes, halopedian's incomplete update, or by what we post on the threads about it. you are honestly going to have to read it and re-read it afew times to fully understand everything. I read it four times and i think anton read it 3 times, which is why we know what we are talking about when we say "read the book".


But i couldn't careless, i am here to talk about halo canon.


[Edited on 06.19.2011 8:27 AM PDT]

  • 06.19.2011 8:05 AM PDT


Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I haven't read Cryptum, so I can't completely hate on it yet, but I have my qualms with the information I've gotten about it. I'm sure the quality of the writing is fine, and so is most of the lore, but I really don't like the idea of an ancient space-faring humanity. It completely throws our knowledge of human evolution out the window. I've also heard that our species isn't even related to the other forms of life on Earth, although I'm not sure if that's true. If it is, it's pretty disappointing. I mean, in fiction and especially in fantasy and science-fiction, you're obviously going to get some parts where reality has to be suspended for the plot or canon, but you have to draw a line or it seems ridiculous.


I don't get why it would be such a big deal that Halo slightly differs from what is claimed by the Theory of Evolution's believers. Halo is a fictional universe based on ours...it shouldn't be bound by whatever theories there are to explain the origins of our universe, that completely defeats the purpose of fiction. And you should read the book, because it actually does match up, and plus the firing of the Halo array would muck up fossil records anyway.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in dating methods used to determine the age of remains anyway, from findings and all I've seen they're not entirely reliable.

  • 06.19.2011 10:05 AM PDT

I think there's stuff in IRIS that contradicts things in Cryptum.

I mean it has happened with previous books and what the video games say.

  • 06.19.2011 10:25 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: Sakanade
I think there's stuff in IRIS that contradicts things in Cryptum.


nope

  • 06.19.2011 10:51 AM PDT

I'm looking into it.

Perhaps you should had asked instead of saying "nope" like you know it all ;)

  • 06.19.2011 11:16 AM PDT
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:)

ITT: People comparing real world facts with a fiction story and calling it false. Ignorant people who are scared of change.


I'm kinda lost in the discussion here. Are you arguing about the presence of a Gravemind during the original Human - Flood war, or the 300 year Forerunner - Flood war? Because there certainly was in the latter.

  • 06.19.2011 12:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: grey101

Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Way to prove my point of sounding like a condescending -blam!- in every post. Each post in this thread, you sound like one. I've never seen you post in any other way on this forum. Also, the age of my Bungie account has no bearing on my activity, knowledge, and fandom within the Halo universe.

"which is where I'm guessing dinosaurs come in" - um what does that even mean? You say "just get the book", but you don't answer my questions even though you act like a superior ass because you have the knowledge. It's true, you have the book and you know more about it than I do. You should be able to answer my questions regarding human evolution. Even if we are under the assumption that ancient humanity comes from elsewhere, why then are there two million year old fossils H. erectus on Earth?

This is taken from Halopedian, so it can't be taken automatically 100% true, but here you go: "Around 150,000-110,000 BCE, before the Human-Forerunner wars, humanity had achieved a Technological Achievement system of Tier 1, on par with the Forerunners, although their catastrophic defeat by the Forerunners would see them reduced to a pre-industrial state as hunter-gatherer tribes, forced to achieve technological sophistication again."

Why are there fossils of human ancestors that are millions of years old, then? Even if the Forerunners "devolved" us, all the extinct hominid species should still be radiometrically dated at atleast <150,000. This makes species like H. neanderthalensis and H. floresiensis acceptable, but older humans do not fit the bill, not to mention the Australopithecines and Ardipithecines.

If you can't answer that, that's fine, that's just going to be where the fiction fails to line up with reality.


your age is relevant because you haven't seen any of my other post for the 4 plus year i have been here, i am more agitated right now for reasons other senior members here can explain. but that isn't important.

can you stop being so emotional and just read the information? the point of me saying "this is where the dinosaurs come in" was stating this might have been the time humanity left earth and moved their empire. and not every single answer was answered in the book which is why there are going to be 2 more and numerous media around it, not everything is going to be told ASAP.


lol I'm not being emotional, I'm actually trying to converse with people on a forum in a civilized and polite manner. I don't think I can say the same about you. I'm sorry, but you don't answer what you meant by the whole dinosaur thing.



Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I haven't read Cryptum, so I can't completely hate on it yet, but I have my qualms with the information I've gotten about it. I'm sure the quality of the writing is fine, and so is most of the lore, but I really don't like the idea of an ancient space-faring humanity. It completely throws our knowledge of human evolution out the window. I've also heard that our species isn't even related to the other forms of life on Earth, although I'm not sure if that's true. If it is, it's pretty disappointing. I mean, in fiction and especially in fantasy and science-fiction, you're obviously going to get some parts where reality has to be suspended for the plot or canon, but you have to draw a line or it seems ridiculous.


I don't get why it would be such a big deal that Halo slightly differs from what is claimed by the Theory of Evolution's believers. Halo is a fictional universe based on ours...it shouldn't be bound by whatever theories there are to explain the origins of our universe, that completely defeats the purpose of fiction. And you should read the book, because it actually does match up, and plus the firing of the Halo array would muck up fossil records anyway.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in dating methods used to determine the age of remains anyway, from findings and all I've seen they're not entirely reliable.


Because the theory of evolution is a fundamental aspect of biological life, and our species (as well as all forms of life on the planet) has a long evolutionary journey from point A to point B. As someone who is going to school to be a biological anthropologist, I do know a little bit about the subject, and we have a pretty damn good idea of when species were alive and where they come from. Your last sentence...Are you saying that radiometric dating on extinct hominids is untrustworthy? I don't think you quite understand the nature of that kind of business.

Also, how would the Halo weapon muck up the fossil record? The Halo weapon, as I understand it, kills off any sentient animal with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. That doesn't really affect dead organisms, whose bones have been fossilized (replaced by non-organic minerals).

It's not that I'm getting worked up that Cryptum doesn't line up with our knowledge of human evolution, I'm just trying to understand where it jumps off of reality and into fiction, as stated in my previous posts. So, within each of grey101's "You don't know anything, you have to read the book to even begin discussing it" posts, I've discerned that he doesn't know. Not to his discredit, of course, the book just doesn't offer up a logical explanation, as of yet.

[Edited on 06.19.2011 12:58 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2011 12:56 PM PDT

"Living in the past is a luxury none of us can afford..."
"I know what the ladies like..."



Because the theory of evolution is a fundamental aspect of biological life, and our species (as well as all forms of life on the planet) has a long evolutionary journey from point A to point B. As someone who is going to school to be a biological anthropologist, I do know a little bit about the subject, and we have a pretty damn good idea of when species were alive and where they come from. Your last sentence...Are you saying that radiometric dating on extinct hominids is untrustworthy? I don't think you quite understand the nature of that kind of business.

Also, how would the Halo weapon muck up the fossil record? The Halo weapon, as I understand it, kills off any sentient animal with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. That doesn't really affect dead organisms, whose bones have been fossilized (replaced by non-organic minerals).

It's not that I'm getting worked up that Cryptum doesn't line up with our knowledge of human evolution, I'm just trying to understand where it jumps off of reality and into fiction, as stated in my previous posts. So, within each of grey101's "You don't know anything, you have to read the book to even begin discussing it" posts, I've discerned that he doesn't know. Not to his discredit, of course, the book just doesn't offer up a logical explanation, as of yet.


Win. ^

  • 06.19.2011 1:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Posted by: grey101

Way to prove my point of sounding like a condescending -blam!- in every post. Each post in this thread, you sound like one. I've never seen you post in any other way on this forum. Also, the age of my Bungie account has no bearing on my activity, knowledge, and fandom within the Halo universe.

"which is where I'm guessing dinosaurs come in" - um what does that even mean? You say "just get the book", but you don't answer my questions even though you act like a superior ass because you have the knowledge. It's true, you have the book and you know more about it than I do. You should be able to answer my questions regarding human evolution. Even if we are under the assumption that ancient humanity comes from elsewhere, why then are there two million year old fossils H. erectus on Earth?

This is taken from Halopedian, so it can't be taken automatically 100% true, but here you go: "Around 150,000-110,000 BCE, before the Human-Forerunner wars, humanity had achieved a Technological Achievement system of Tier 1, on par with the Forerunners, although their catastrophic defeat by the Forerunners would see them reduced to a pre-industrial state as hunter-gatherer tribes, forced to achieve technological sophistication again."

Why are there fossils of human ancestors that are millions of years old, then? Even if the Forerunners "devolved" us, all the extinct hominid species should still be radiometrically dated at atleast <150,000. This makes species like H. neanderthalensis and H. floresiensis acceptable, but older humans do not fit the bill, not to mention the Australopithecines and Ardipithecines.

If you can't answer that, that's fine, that's just going to be where the fiction fails to line up with reality.


your age is relevant because you haven't seen any of my other post for the 4 plus year i have been here, i am more agitated right now for reasons other senior members here can explain. but that isn't important.

can you stop being so emotional and just read the information? the point of me saying "this is where the dinosaurs come in" was stating this might have been the time humanity left earth and moved their empire. and not every single answer was answered in the book which is why there are going to be 2 more and numerous media around it, not everything is going to be told ASAP.


lol I'm not being emotional, I'm actually trying to converse with people on a forum in a civilized and polite manner. I don't think I can say the same about you. I'm sorry, but you don't answer what you meant by the whole dinosaur thing.



Posted by: OrderedComa

Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I haven't read Cryptum, so I can't completely hate on it yet, but I have my qualms with the information I've gotten about it. I'm sure the quality of the writing is fine, and so is most of the lore, but I really don't like the idea of an ancient space-faring humanity. It completely throws our knowledge of human evolution out the window. I've also heard that our species isn't even related to the other forms of life on Earth, although I'm not sure if that's true. If it is, it's pretty disappointing. I mean, in fiction and especially in fantasy and science-fiction, you're obviously going to get some parts where reality has to be suspended for the plot or canon, but you have to draw a line or it seems ridiculous.


I don't get why it would be such a big deal that Halo slightly differs from what is claimed by the Theory of Evolution's believers. Halo is a fictional universe based on ours...it shouldn't be bound by whatever theories there are to explain the origins of our universe, that completely defeats the purpose of fiction. And you should read the book, because it actually does match up, and plus the firing of the Halo array would muck up fossil records anyway.

And I wouldn't put too much stock in dating methods used to determine the age of remains anyway, from findings and all I've seen they're not entirely reliable.


Because the theory of evolution is a fundamental aspect of biological life, and our species (as well as all forms of life on the planet) has a long evolutionary journey from point A to point B. As someone who is going to school to be a biological anthropologist, I do know a little bit about the subject, and we have a pretty damn good idea of when species were alive and where they come from. Your last sentence...Are you saying that radiometric dating on extinct hominids is untrustworthy? I don't think you quite understand the nature of that kind of business.

Also, how would the Halo weapon muck up the fossil record? The Halo weapon, as I understand it, kills off any sentient animal with sufficient biomass to sustain the Flood. That doesn't really affect dead organisms, whose bones have been fossilized (replaced by non-organic minerals).

It's not that I'm getting worked up that Cryptum doesn't line up with our knowledge of human evolution, I'm just trying to understand where it jumps off of reality and into fiction, as stated in my previous posts. So, within each of grey101's "You don't know anything, you have to read the book to even begin discussing it" posts, I've discerned that he doesn't know. Not to his discredit, of course, the book just doesn't offer up a logical explanation, as of yet.


"I'm sorry, but you don't answer what you meant by the whole dinosaur thing. "

the point of me saying "this is where the dinosaurs come in" was stating this might have been the time humanity left earth and moved their empire.

"I've discerned that he doesn't know. "

not every single answer was answered in the book which is why there are going to be 2 more and numerous media around it, not everything is going to be told ASAP.

I answered both in my posts.

  • 06.19.2011 2:16 PM PDT
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What do the dinosaurs have to do with anything? That's what I'm asking, which you haven't answered.

Posted by: grey101
"I've discerned that he doesn't know. "

not every single answer was answered in the book which is why there are going to be 2 more and numerous media around it, not everything is going to be told ASAP.

I answered both in my posts.


I wasn't arguing with you, here. Read the rest of that paragraph and I explain:

Posted by: SubjectNameHere

Not to his discredit, of course, the book just doesn't offer up a logical explanation, as of yet.


I haven't read the book, but even so, I think my queries about how our knowledge of human evolution fits into the Halo universe has brought up some questions that have yet to be answered. If they can be fit in, that is.

  • 06.19.2011 3:10 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Dinosaur might have arisen due to humanity leaving, much like the hunters coming to the current state after the forerunners left.

"Also, how would the Halo weapon muck up the fossil record? " It is an extinction event that shows up on the record, this was talked about in halo evolutions.

  • 06.19.2011 3:38 PM PDT
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I was under the impression that the Halo firing was around 100,000 BCE, much much later than the dinosaur extinction event.

During the time of the dinosaurs, the only mammals around were small shrews. If you're saying what I think you're saying (and it's true), that humans actually come before dinosaurs, primates before there were even mammals to evolve into primates, then that is severely disappointing. I find that unlikely, though, I think you must have just misworded or misread the original text. Atleast, that's what I hope.

[Edited on 06.19.2011 3:54 PM PDT]

  • 06.19.2011 3:54 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I was under the impression that the Halo firing was around 100,000 BCE, much much later than the dinosaur extinction event.

During the time of the dinosaurs, the only mammals around were small shrews. If you're saying what I think you're saying (and it's true), that humans actually come before dinosaurs, primates before there were even mammals to evolve into primates, then that is severely disappointing. I find that unlikely, though, I think you must have just misworded or misread the original text. Atleast, that's what I hope.


I wasn't talking about it wiping out the dinosaurs, i was saying ancient man evolved during the late years of the dinosaurs. though i didn't fully explain that in the last post that is pretty much what happened.

Yes the halo affect was around that time in which animals went extinct becuase of that which shows up in the record.
And you really need to stop trying to compare events in our line with halos.

  • 06.19.2011 4:03 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

If we in out real life timeline can't completely present a logical, fact-based timeline for life hundreds of thousands of years ago, why is Bear getting crap for not being able to?

  • 06.19.2011 4:08 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If we in out real life timeline can't completely present a logical, fact-based timeline for life hundreds of thousands of years ago, why is Bear getting crap for not being able to?


Becuase he isn't eric and this isn't the fall of reach

  • 06.19.2011 4:10 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If we in out real life timeline can't completely present a logical, fact-based timeline for life hundreds of thousands of years ago, why is Bear getting crap for not being able to?


Becuase he isn't eric and this isn't the fall of reach

Guarantee if Nylund wrote Cryptum word for word, fanboys would be lining up to suck his dick.

  • 06.19.2011 4:11 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: DecepticonCobra
Posted by: grey101

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
If we in out real life timeline can't completely present a logical, fact-based timeline for life hundreds of thousands of years ago, why is Bear getting crap for not being able to?


Becuase he isn't eric and this isn't the fall of reach

Guarantee if Nylund wrote Cryptum word for word, fanboys would be lining up to suck his dick.


yessir and subject this isn't directed at you FYI

  • 06.19.2011 4:13 PM PDT

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