Halo 1 & 2 for PC
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Subject: HaloCE Like it or not?
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Posted by: Maarken
Isn't that the reason for HaloCE? to have new playable maps? if you only want to play classic maps, why hassle with downloading something else?


That is indeed one of the reasons. The other reason for releasing Custom Edition was (in theory) so that Gearbox could update it more frequently than Halo PC, because updates wouldn't have to go through the MS testing process. However, it would appear now that Bungie's approval process is the only thing holding Gearbox back atm. The reason I told Cube that he should play CE, regardless of what maps he likes, is to support Halo. Not me, not CE, not anybody from Gearbox, but Halo. I'll reiterate: Halo PC will no longer receive content updates. It is dead in the water. Halo Custom Edition is the only version of Halo that stands to be updated in the future. I know I'm starting to sound like a broken record, but that's because nobody seems to recognize this point. I originally stated that I was not trying to get anybody to convert because I think Halo CE is better than Halo PC in terms of gameplay value. While I have opinions regarding that matter, that's not what I'm trying to express in this thread. I'm trying to make people see that this is the only Halo we've got on the PC platform and that may be it forever (or at least a very long time).

okay... my reason for not playing HaloCE is that i dont get onto Halo frequently enough for it to matter.

Everybody matters. That's the kind of attitude that has prevented Halo custom edition from taking off. Whether you play once a week or once a month, we'd gladly welcome you to the CE ranks. It doesn't take that much effort to play CE, especially if you aren't interested in playing custom maps. When I said everyone who plays Halo multiplayer should be playing Halo Custom Edition, I was dead serious and not altogether unjustified, if I do say so myself.

why hassle with downloading something else? to support people who are whining about it? and dont say "I'm not whining" because you guys are. proof is found here:[...]

To support Halo, one of the best games we've all played in a long time. It still has vast reservoirs of untapped potential, which is why this post was started in the first place, to investigate why people aren't flocking to this potential.

As for the whining, in actuality, if you go back and read Warhammer's post, he wasn't even advocating CE. He was poking fun at an earlier poster and his statements can't in any way be construed as whining. It sounds like Warhammer has played with the guy and is calling him out. Irrelevance aside, nobody in this thread has been whining. Those of us who are making constructive posts are here to present our case and support it. We are here to try to spread the word for something that we feel is beneficial and worthwhile for all. Part of that process includes debating with people about their five minute impression of what CE is.

Opinions are the basis of why we choose to do stuff. If a voter has a strong opinion in an election for a candidate, they wont vote for the other candidate, they'll vote for the one they like more.

Yes, but if you are trying to convince me to vote for George Bush, do you say, "Because Ralph Nader isn't good." No, a persuasive list contains elements of fact that should make your audience see why they should vote for Dubyuh (not that I would, mind you). The particular "opinion" I had a problem with was this: "no public fun..." How is that supposed to convince anybody of anything? That's an opinon. That's like saying, "I like cheese." If you're trying to persuade someone or trying to make them see your side of the argument, you usually present why you have formed the opinons you hold. That's the reason I singled this list item out. Not necessarily because I disagree with it, but because there is no way to reconcile our differences if that's the only evidence he provides.

In short, sorry if i seem to be coming off as harsh here, and dont get angry because any negative emotion is wasteful in a BBS forum.

No harshness detected here. I think you posted in a relatively mature manner. In fact, I've been impressed at the general level of maturity that people have been handling this topic with. Hopefully it can stay that way and we'll make some progress in this forum.

Oh, as a side note, since this is a popular thread... i need some help with my HaloPC game.

Post that in a new topic, please, and we'll see what we can do. I'd like to keep this thread as on topic as possible. :)

Posted by: Texrat
Nice work Leoht. It's always a pleasure gaming with ya.


Thankyou, sir. Feeling's mutual. Nice to see some familiar faces around this place. The cavalry has arrived. ;)

  • 09.01.2004 10:42 PM PDT
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or perhaps your just insane... hehe, either way, ur cool man.

Lol, thanks ST. Nice to see you over here, too. I probably am insane. Who else would spend a perfectly good day off of work to post on a couple of message boards? *sigh* Someone has to do it, though, because it's not getting done.

  • 09.01.2004 10:48 PM PDT
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For whatever it's worth, I agree with pretty much everything Cube said as far as why CE is a step backward.

Random leading does not occur 100% of the time.

Exactly, that's why it's called random.

Smooth connections don't find leading fluctations. Connections that have fluctating latency will find leading issues in one game session. You'll find different leading even on smooth connections from one game session to the next if your latency changes. At the end of the day these are the ideosyncracies one must deal with on an internet game.

Not exactly true. The leading still fluctuates even on LAN with state of the art hardware (e.g. at CPL).

  • 09.02.2004 3:09 AM PDT
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I like halo CE. I would like it more if there were fixes

  • 09.02.2004 11:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: Leoht
Random leading does not occur 100% of the time.

Posted by: Talking Elmo
Exactly, that's why it's called random.


When I think about random leading I view it as the act of having to readjust your aim on a moving target, because of varying ping times. Note that such a definition has no indication of when or how frequently this occurs. Thus, I wanted to emphasize the fact that it doesn't occur 100% of the time, because everyone I've seen post on this topic seems to think it's a constant thing. You didn't spend much effort refuting any of my supporting statements while you were here, so I'll take this opportunity to further expand my case about random leading. Random leading won't kill your game. It takes a little bit to get used to, but Halo CE is still very playable. At the end of the day when the scoreboard is displayed, there are still winners and losers and everybody inbetween. There is still gameplay value to be had in CE, despite random leading. As I stated earlier, the random leading should affect your kill-rate as a ratio in terms of pistoling/sniping. If you're a good shot, most of the kills you attempt you will still get; some you won't. In theory, this will be the case with everyone playing in the gameroom with you. In the end, everyone's scores are reduced slightly. The best players adapt, while the less dedicated drop off the map.

Posted by: Talking Elmo
Not exactly true. The leading still fluctuates even on LAN with state of the art hardware (e.g. at CPL).


Posted by: Leoht
It should be noted that no Internet connection is going to have a rock solid ping, thus everyone experiences the same random leading. The only way you will have such a connection devoid of random leading is when you are playing on a LAN (and even then I've heard some CAL players complain).


Not exactly what you said, but close enough as far as I'm concerned.

  • 09.02.2004 12:18 PM PDT
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Random leading sucks because it forces you to guess where to shoot before you pull the trigger. With the Assault Rifle, it's no big deal. Lots of bullets to trying and find the hit beep. With the pistol, it sucks more but at least you've got 12 shots to experiment with to figure out where the target is. But with the sniper rifle, good luck. You only have 4 shots in the clip. That's when it's time to cross your fingers and pray that 2 of your shots happen to hit.

Yes, it still takes skill to play, and yes the good players still generally come out on top. But it's no fun having to relearn the leading distance every few seconds during gameplay. Some of us don't want to play CE because of that. Random leading was a bad idea on Gearbox's part. Forcing people to guess where to shoot isn't good.

The fact that HaloPC/CE still lags and screws up on LAN only shows how incompetent Gearbox is as a game developer.

Edit: I didn't respond with a detailed rebuttal to each of your points because I have other things to do with my life. I don't want to play CE because of poor design decisions that were made. End of story.

[Edited on 9/2/2004 2:01:14 PM]

  • 09.02.2004 1:59 PM PDT
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Like I said before I myself have never experienced the random leading on HaloCE. I do fairly well with it. Much better than on PC when I lead more and cant tell how much I need to because of the large differences. Thats just my experience though.

  • 09.02.2004 2:15 PM PDT
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Random leading sucks because it forces you to guess where to shoot before you pull the trigger. With the Assault Rifle, it's no big deal. Lots of bullets to trying and find the hit beep. With the pistol, it sucks more but at least you've got 12 shots to experiment with to figure out where the target is. But with the sniper rifle, good luck. You only have 4 shots in the clip. That's when it's time to cross your fingers and pray that 2 of your shots happen to hit.
I agree with you the way you've said things here. You're absolutely right. On the same note, I tend to have the same problem with the sniper rifle on PC. You still have to find your target in any instance that lag is involved. Yet despite this fact, you still find 24/7 sniping servers on CE and players still manage to rack up quite impressive scores in them.

Some of us don't want to play CE because of that. Random leading was a bad idea on Gearbox's part. Forcing people to guess where to shoot isn't good.

I agree, random leading was a horrible idea. But I'm not advocating that people rise up and support random leading. It should be first on the list of things to be fixed in CE. My original intent with starting this noise was for people to support CE, because it is the only version of Halo that stands to be updated. If you don't want to help with that endeavor, then more power to you bro.

The fact that HaloPC/CE still lags and screws up on LAN only shows how incompetent Gearbox is as a game developer.

...Or how hard it is to port a FPS from a console to the PC. None of us having experience in this area makes it rather hard to tell which is the more likely cause. Gearbox seems to be quite capable game developers with their current WWII title.

Edit: I didn't respond with a detailed rebuttal to each of your points because I have other things to do with my life. I don't want to play CE because of poor design decisions that were made. End of story.

Hey, fair enough. You're not dedicated to this subject. I am. I just figured you'd like to finish what you started. Sounds like you're done with this thread. See you around, Talking Elmo.

  • 09.02.2004 5:38 PM PDT
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Gearbox seems to be quite capable game developers with their current WWII title.

... which none of us has played, so we won't know how good it us until it ships. I'll admit that it looks cool, but we all thought HaloPC looked cool before it came out. And then we played it. :-(

As much as I'm disappointed with HaloPC's lag and stuff, I will admit that Gearbox's new maps and weapons are super cool (with the exception of a few weapon spawn placements). I absolutely love Danger Canyon, Ice Fields, Timberland, and Death Island. I think GB has a real talent for modding/map making. On DC I just post up in the sniper roost (near the overshield) and mow down everything that comes through the middle (while praying I don't lag off the ledge). Loads of fun.

Just as an aside, HaloPC's leading is tricky to master, but the key is to memorize leading distances. I.e., with 33 ping I have to lead by X amount with X weapon when they're on foot, and I have to lead by Y amount with X weapon when I'm shooting a moving vehicle, etc. It's a lot to learn and it takes a while, but once you get the hang of it you can take out vehicle drivers with the sniper rifle. With a 33 ping, you have to lead a moving warthog by over 5 inches with the sniper rifle, but it's possible once you learn how. :) Sniping moving vehicles is extremely difficult, but it stays relatively consistent once you get the hang of it.

  • 09.02.2004 10:22 PM PDT
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... which none of us has played, so we won't know how good it us until it ships. I'll admit that it looks cool, but we all thought HaloPC looked cool before it came out. And then we played it. :-(

Actually, I'll go ahead and help you dismantle any remaining value my previous statement held. :) While the game still does look good from what I've seen of it, honestly I don't care about another WWII shooter, playwise. I've not been impressed by the current installment of them and am not likely to play any future crops. It's just not my bag. So I guess we will have to wait and see whether Gearbox sinks or swims with their next game, like you say. Their reputation, while already hopelessly tarnished in the eyes of Halo PC/CE players, is riding on this next title.

...Gearbox's new maps and weapons are super cool (with the exception of a few weapon spawn placements).

Aye, they do have talent for creating large maps like the ones you mentioned. I wish we could have seen more out of them, like they hinted at so long ago.

HaloPC's leading is tricky to master, but the key is to...

Yeah, I went through all that. I played Halo PC for months before CE came out, then CE came and threw all that out the window, so I'd have to relearn all that. ;) Thanks for the tips though.

Interestingly, EP's public server (EP's Third Sever, as it's called) is running a server-side mod that is supposed to all but eliminate leading. I don't know if you still visit the Gbx forums anymore, but they were ablaze with joy at this breakthrough last night (er... night before last, now that I look at the time). Lots of people swear up and down that they have achieved nirvana through this server-side mod (i.e., actually being able to hit their targets exactly when they want to), but I went in, tried it, experienced more lag than I've ever felt on CE, and the leading wasn't any different, so I quit to go play in a different server that actually worked for me. O_o That was a vaguely-related-to-the-topic tangent there, but one I thought you might be interested in hearing. :)

Anyway, thanks for coming back and being civil about things, unlike what most forumers would do when confronted by an argumentive sob like me. ;)
GG, Elmo

  • 09.04.2004 3:24 AM PDT
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seems as though you know a thing or three about this haloCE leoht... thats a good thing... keep promoting it man...

(edit for spelling)

[Edited on 9/4/2004 3:51:46 PM]

  • 09.04.2004 3:50 PM PDT
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yeah the freakin suks. so get better connection

  • 09.05.2004 9:27 AM PDT
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tried it, experienced more lag than I've ever felt on CE, and the leading wasn't any different, so I quit to go play in a different server that actually worked for me.
The program is still very beta right now. We just need to have patience and hope it goes towards the right direction.

  • 09.05.2004 4:05 PM PDT
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Halo CE is that the halo level; editor I heard that it has massive problems but there only teething bugs and if more poople get mroe involved in Halo CE then the company will launch patches and it will get better get halo CE and support a great agme that has just being given a new lease of life

  • 09.06.2004 3:14 PM PDT
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yuppers. Besides hotfixes halopc doesnt look to have a hope of being patched

  • 09.06.2004 7:03 PM PDT
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There is not much reason to not like CE now seeing as how a tool has been created for dedicated servers to get rid of lag and warping.

  • 09.07.2004 7:02 AM PDT
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Simply put, like most gamers out there, I've got a lot on my plate outside of Halo. I have no major problems with the current build of Halo PC and I would rather spend my free time enjoying that build than downloading and setting up an alternate build which doesn't have the player support of the original PC edition. If there comes a day that it's quicker and easier to find a good game on CE, I'll switch. But a little voice in the back of my head is suggesting that Halo 2 will make PC before that day comes.

  • 09.07.2004 9:54 AM PDT
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I was hoping a bungie rep might have passed by a few of my HaloCE related topics to shed light on us.

  • 09.07.2004 3:05 PM PDT

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