Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required
  • Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required
Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required
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  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: awinnik1
so what we have gotten from this discussion is that, halo 3 is halo 3, halo 2 sucked and that i am awesome. topic closed?
Sounds like every conclusion to every Halo PC thread as of these days.... Quite disappointing :/

  • 06.27.2011 12:39 PM PDT

Posted by: Dr Syx

Posted by: awinnik1
so what we have gotten from this discussion is that, halo 3 is halo 3, halo 2 sucked and that i am awesome. topic closed?
Sounds like every conclusion to every Halo PC thread as of these days.... Quite disappointing :/

thats why i said it

  • 06.27.2011 12:42 PM PDT

Popcorn anyone?

  • 06.27.2011 12:43 PM PDT

Posted by: Zetren
Popcorn anyone?

hell yeah

  • 06.27.2011 1:02 PM PDT

Something smells fishy...

Posted by: awinnik1
so what we have gotten from this discussion is that, halo 3 is halo 3, halo 2 sucked and that i am awesome. topic closed?

What I got from this thread was:

Halo 2 Vista sucks, Halo 2 Vista is a gift from god, and Humans tend to have differing opinions on many subjects such as video games.

  • 06.27.2011 6:04 PM PDT

Xfire username: rustbandit

Add me to your friends list if you haven't already. It's a lot more fun to play with people from The Maw and people I know than random noobs.

These threads are classic.

Even if you just play the campaign you can tell the later Halo games have been dumbed down by how easy it is to get headshots.

I started playing through the campaign on Halo PC earlier this week for the first time in a long while. I kept thinking to myself "Why am I not getting headshots?". Upon a closer look I realized I wasn't actually hitting the grunts in the head. I would hit their shoulders or backpack thing. In Reach and the later games, hitting in the upper torso or that general area will give you a headshot.

Gruntpacolypse anyone?

[Edited on 06.27.2011 6:16 PM PDT]

  • 06.27.2011 6:13 PM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Ben2974
Reread the last couple of pages and you will learn that all fps games take skill in order to be on top.

In Halo 2 and beyond, a camper with a sword/rockets/whatever can destroy a model marksman. That should never happen in a FPS game. EVER.

If I pick up a game and only play it modestly for a month, and I'm beating people that have played for 6 months or more, that demonstrates a complete lack of a skill gap. That happened in both Halo 2 and 3, as well as numerous other console FPS games.

There is a such thing as raw aptitude for the entire genre. Saying otherwise is an excuse by people that suck at the genre in general. All games are different, with different learning curves, but a person good at UT will be good at Quake, will be good at HL2DM, will be good at TF2, will be even be good at CS:S simply because he grasps the core of the genre that skill-based FPS games center on. I guarantee you that if we tossed up a skill-based FPS game that neither of us had ever played in our lives, and went 1v1 on it, I would destroy you simply because I know what it's like to be absent of the crutches that you have to lean on.

  • 06.27.2011 8:35 PM PDT
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"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: DusK
I guarantee you that if we tossed up a skill-based FPS game that neither of us had ever played in our lives, and went 1v1 on it, I would destroy you simply because I know what it's like to be absent of the crutches that you have to lean on.
Starsiege Tribes. It's a free download. Go to the "Reality Bites" server and challenge one another to a duel. I really want to watch people duel there... It's so empty now :/

  • 06.27.2011 9:57 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Ben2974
Reread the last couple of pages and you will learn that all fps games take skill in order to be on top.

In Halo 2 and beyond, a camper with a sword/rockets/whatever can destroy a model marksman.



Stopped right there. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. You're wrong. And didn't you learn anything from my little analysis of skill in Halo 1 and 2? Being a "model marksman" is not the only thing you must have in order to rule the match unlike in H1 where aiming and hitting is more than half the battle (3/4 is my opinion). I'm guessing you never read anything I typed :D


And yes we established that Halo 2's skill gap is smaller. Skill gap =/= skill level

  • 06.27.2011 10:16 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Ben2974
Reread the last couple of pages and you will learn that all fps games take skill in order to be on top.

In Halo 2 and beyond, a camper with a sword/rockets/whatever can destroy a model marksman.



Stopped right there. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. You're wrong. And didn't you learn anything from my little analysis of skill in Halo 1 and 2? Being a "model marksman" is not the only thing you must have in order to rule the match unlike in H1 where aiming and hitting is more than half the battle (3/4 is my opinion). I'm guessing you never read anything I typed :D


And yes we established that Halo 2's skill gap is smaller. Skill gap =/= skill level


News flash: Skill based FPS revolves around marksmanship. It's the core element of the genre. If you can't aim worth crap and need to lean on cheap crap like "map control" and "power weapons", you're bad. End of story.

  • 06.27.2011 10:42 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK

Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Ben2974
Reread the last couple of pages and you will learn that all fps games take skill in order to be on top.

In Halo 2 and beyond, a camper with a sword/rockets/whatever can destroy a model marksman.



Stopped right there. You keep saying the same thing over and over again. You're wrong. And didn't you learn anything from my little analysis of skill in Halo 1 and 2? Being a "model marksman" is not the only thing you must have in order to rule the match unlike in H1 where aiming and hitting is more than half the battle (3/4 is my opinion). I'm guessing you never read anything I typed :D


And yes we established that Halo 2's skill gap is smaller. Skill gap =/= skill level


News flash: Skill based FPS revolves around marksmanship. It's the core element of the genre. If you can't aim worth crap and need to lean on cheap crap like "map control" and "power weapons", you're bad. End of story.



And that's why you can't reach a level 40 in Halo 3


Maps are made the way they are for a reason. Different weapons are given to you for a reason. Different gametypes are developed for a reason. The list goes on.
You can be the best at shooting your opponent in an open space, but that doesn't make you the best player in the fps. FPS is a genre; the goal is to kill your opponent with a gun and achieve the objective. Do it any way you can, and may the best man win. If you can't defeat a guy that's hiding behind a corner, well, that's your problem.

  • 06.27.2011 10:54 PM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Ben2974
And that's why you can't reach a level 40 in Halo 3

I could, but I won't, because it means absolutely nothing. Stop pretending that your rank makes you good at anything.

Posted by: Ben2974
Maps are made the way they are for a reason. Different weapons are given to you for a reason. Different gametypes are developed for a reason. The list goes on.
You can be the best at shooting your opponent in an open space, but that doesn't make you the best player in the fps. FPS is a genre; the goal is to kill your opponent with a gun and achieve the objective. Do it any way you can, and may the best man win. If you can't defeat a guy that's hiding behind a corner, well, that's your problem.

It's a problem. Not with any particular player, but with the game itself. If a game rewards cowardice and allows lesser-skilled players to kill a better player even once, the game's not skill-based. If a game goes to such an extreme as to allow other various forms of cowardice to trump a seasoned FPS veteran, the game definitely takes no skill to play.

The bottom line is that the game allows FPS players that suck to beat FPS players that are good. That's why you like it, that's why you defend it. It's supposed to be a first person shooter, not a first-person camp-whore-power-weapons-spam-nades-and-let-the-game-aim-for-y ou.

  • 06.27.2011 11:05 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Ben2974
And that's why you can't reach a level 40 in Halo 3

I could, but I won't, because it means absolutely nothing. Stop pretending that your rank makes you good at anything.

Posted by: Ben2974
Maps are made the way they are for a reason. Different weapons are given to you for a reason. Different gametypes are developed for a reason. The list goes on.
You can be the best at shooting your opponent in an open space, but that doesn't make you the best player in the fps. FPS is a genre; the goal is to kill your opponent with a gun and achieve the objective. Do it any way you can, and may the best man win. If you can't defeat a guy that's hiding behind a corner, well, that's your problem.

It's a problem. Not with any particular player, but with the game itself. If a game rewards cowardice and allows lesser-skilled players to kill a better player even once, the game's not skill-based. If a game goes to such an extreme as to allow other various forms of cowardice to trump a seasoned FPS veteran, the game definitely takes no skill to play.

The bottom line is that the game allows FPS players that suck to beat FPS players that are good. That's why you like it, that's why you defend it. It's supposed to be a first person shooter, not a first-person camp-whore-power-weapons-spam-nades-and-let-the-game-aim-for-y ou.



Woah woah!! This is what I said: "It makes me a good Halo 3 player; nothing else can be extracted from that." That was a comment I had in one of my posts on the third page. Never said I was good at everything or anything cuz of my rank. Don't stuff words down my throat, please.
>.>


On a second note, i'm pretty sure that some random player on counter strike can chill behind a door corner and wait for the unsuspecting professional player to walk by and continue down the hallway while the other guy takes some easy spray shots to his back, killing him. Oh wait, the season veteran can make sure he checks that corner before he continues down the hall.

Wait a second, you can do that in Halo 2+ as well! OMGOSH! lol


Dusk, you're just too concerned for the skill gap in the later Halos. I explained all of this already dude.

  • 06.27.2011 11:20 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Ben2974
Woah woah!! This is what I said: "It makes me a good Halo 3 player; nothing else can be extracted from that." That was a comment I had in one of my posts on the third page. Never said I was good at everything or anything cuz of my rank. Don't stuff words down my throat, please.
>.>

Funny thing is, "good" and "Halo 3 player" don't even belong in the same sentence.

Posted by: Ben2974
On a second note, i'm pretty sure that some random player on counter strike can chill behind a door corner and wait for the unsuspecting professional player to walk by and continue down the hallway while the other guy takes some easy spray shots to his back, killing him. Oh wait, the season veteran can make sure he checks that corner before he continues down the hall.

Wait a second, you can do that in Halo 2+ as well! OMGOSH! lol

CSS: Experienced player corner checks. Sees a camper. Kills the camper before he can get a few -if any- shots off.

Halo 2: Experienced player corner checks. Noobcrap camper has a rocket launcher, sword, or other power weapon. The better player dies.

Terrible analogy. Yet another example of how stupid it is to compare a kiddie-fest like H2 to a real man's game like CS.

Posted by: Ben2974
Dusk, you're just too concerned for the skill gap in the later Halos. I explained all of this already dude.

While completely ignoring how flawed your explanations are.

  • 06.27.2011 11:57 PM PDT


Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Ben2974
And that's why you can't reach a level 40 in Halo 3

I could, but I won't, because it means absolutely nothing. Stop pretending that your rank makes you good at anything.

Posted by: Ben2974
Maps are made the way they are for a reason. Different weapons are given to you for a reason. Different gametypes are developed for a reason. The list goes on.
You can be the best at shooting your opponent in an open space, but that doesn't make you the best player in the fps. FPS is a genre; the goal is to kill your opponent with a gun and achieve the objective. Do it any way you can, and may the best man win. If you can't defeat a guy that's hiding behind a corner, well, that's your problem.

It's a problem. Not with any particular player, but with the game itself. If a game rewards cowardice and allows lesser-skilled players to kill a better player even once, the game's not skill-based. If a game goes to such an extreme as to allow other various forms of cowardice to trump a seasoned FPS veteran, the game definitely takes no skill to play.

The bottom line is that the game allows FPS players that suck to beat FPS players that are good. That's why you like it, that's why you defend it. It's supposed to be a first person shooter, not a first-person camp-whore-power-weapons-spam-nades-and-let-the-game-aim-for-y ou.



Woah woah!! This is what I said: "It makes me a good Halo 3 player; nothing else can be extracted from that." That was a comment I had in one of my posts on the third page. Never said I was good at everything or anything cuz of my rank. Don't stuff words down my throat, please.
>.>

You're missing the point, by saying Dusk could never get a 40 and openly saying you got a 50, you're implying that the skill level makes you a good Halo 3 player and Dusk a bad one when the ranking system means next to nothing, just because he doesn't have a 40. If you're going to compare to each other on a game like this, base it on you're w/l and k/d, but even then it's probably not worth it

  • 06.28.2011 1:41 AM PDT

bltches, bltches! calm down!

  • 06.28.2011 5:24 AM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: Wilis_kid

Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: Ben2974
And that's why you can't reach a level 40 in Halo 3

I could, but I won't, because it means absolutely nothing. Stop pretending that your rank makes you good at anything.

Posted by: Ben2974
Maps are made the way they are for a reason. Different weapons are given to you for a reason. Different gametypes are developed for a reason. The list goes on.
You can be the best at shooting your opponent in an open space, but that doesn't make you the best player in the fps. FPS is a genre; the goal is to kill your opponent with a gun and achieve the objective. Do it any way you can, and may the best man win. If you can't defeat a guy that's hiding behind a corner, well, that's your problem.

It's a problem. Not with any particular player, but with the game itself. If a game rewards cowardice and allows lesser-skilled players to kill a better player even once, the game's not skill-based. If a game goes to such an extreme as to allow other various forms of cowardice to trump a seasoned FPS veteran, the game definitely takes no skill to play.

The bottom line is that the game allows FPS players that suck to beat FPS players that are good. That's why you like it, that's why you defend it. It's supposed to be a first person shooter, not a first-person camp-whore-power-weapons-spam-nades-and-let-the-game-aim-for-y ou.



Woah woah!! This is what I said: "It makes me a good Halo 3 player; nothing else can be extracted from that." That was a comment I had in one of my posts on the third page. Never said I was good at everything or anything cuz of my rank. Don't stuff words down my throat, please.
>.>

You're missing the point, by saying Dusk could never get a 40 and openly saying you got a 50, you're implying that the skill level makes you a good Halo 3 player and Dusk a bad one when the ranking system means next to nothing, just because he doesn't have a 40. If you're going to compare to each other on a game like this, base it on you're w/l and k/d, but even then it's probably not worth it



I will say this, though: I was wrong to compare that camping because it is true that you can camp with rockets and beat a pro that walks in and even checks for the camper. I guess that was dumb of me to say. My mistake, I guess. Ofc the professional Halo player would simply avoid small spots, or he would nade the area, jump over the corner, or bring out a close ranged weapon for that very case.

I was speakin like a noob :p


But back in the day, when there were hundreds of thousands of people online at a time, getting a legit 50 was no easy task. 50's mean something, but fake 50s mean nothing. The ranking system was too easily exploited/cheated like I said earlier so the majority of 50s people see online aren't true 50s, making Dusk and others believe that 50s don't mean anything. So when I say that Dusk couldn't reach a 40, and that i'm better than him because I have a legit 50, then yes, I am implying that the skill level will help signal the other player that he's gonna have a hard time staying alive.



[Edited on 06.28.2011 8:43 AM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 8:27 AM PDT
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Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

You're right, Ben, none of the countless 50's I destroyed could have possibly been legit.

Keep pretending.

  • 06.28.2011 9:51 AM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK
You're right, Ben, none of the countless 50's I destroyed could have possibly been legit.

Keep pretending.


I said majority.

I decided to look at ~8 pages of matches you've last played (last 200 matches) in Halo 3 and I've gotta say you're boasting too much. First off, I rarely see any 50s that you get to vs (due to the fact that you're such a low level) and when you do vs them, you're usually in second place with low to mid # of kills on the team. Not to mention that you play a lot of social and still get close to zero kills per match. Here's one example.

Here's a second example and here's a third


And I don't see you vsing 50s. I doubt you have anyways because it's rare to find those lvls when you're in the 30s ESPECIALLY since the last game you played was in 2009. Back then you were well separated from higher levels. Now it might be a little easier to find 50s in games due to the lower population.

I hate to say this, but you've been lying all along. >.>

[Edited on 06.28.2011 11:23 AM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 11:21 AM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

You're not digging through it hard enough, but I've stomped my fair share of 50s. I don't feel like searching through 900 games to find every instance of it, but I remember them getting pretty mad in the post-game lobby when I informed them, like I'm informing you now, that a 50 means nothing even if you got it legit.

And you calling anyone a liar is hypocrisy tbh. Now, if you're done being in denial of your suckage, can we continue with the topic at hand?

  • 06.28.2011 11:33 AM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK
You're not digging through it hard enough, but I've stomped my fair share of 50s. I don't feel like searching through 900 games to find every instance of it, but I remember them getting pretty mad in the post-game lobby when I informed them, like I'm informing you now, that a 50 means nothing even if you got it legit.

And you calling anyone a liar is hypocrisy tbh. Now, if you're done being in denial of your suckage, can we continue with the topic at hand?


I shouldn't have to dig so hard to find a few well-played matches by a pro player like you.

And even if i'm a hypocrite, that doesn't invalidate the bs we read from you.

  • 06.28.2011 12:48 PM PDT

Halo Reach PC über alles!

Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: DusK
You're right, Ben, none of the countless 50's I destroyed could have possibly been legit.

Keep pretending.


Here's one example.

Here's a second example and here's a third


I love how 2/3 of those matches were social playlists.

Why not show us some matches from a ranked playlist?


Posted by: Scary BIack Man
...Wow. That is the most pathetic thing I've ever read. I was agreeing with you until now, but wow. Even your average CoD "pros" understand more about skill based gameplay than you. I take it you get ass raped at Quake?


Relying on knowledge of where everything is on the map, implies not only that the person hunts for power weapons, but also looks for a good space to camp. And I don't think I need to explain the problem power weapons presents to you.

[Edited on 06.28.2011 2:34 PM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 2:24 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: i Conker
Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: DusK
You're right, Ben, none of the countless 50's I destroyed could have possibly been legit.

Keep pretending.


Here's one example.

Here's a second example and here's a third


I love how 2/3 of those matches were social playlists.

Why not show us some matches from a ranked playlist?


Posted by: Scary BIack Man
...Wow. That is the most pathetic thing I've ever read. I was agreeing with you until now, but wow. Even your average CoD "pros" understand more about skill based gameplay than you. I take it you get ass raped at Quake?


Relying on knowledge of where everything is on the map, implies not only that the person hunts for power weapons, but also looks for a good space to camp. And I don't think I need to explain the problem power weapons presents to you.



If you only know how to shoot your target, you can't win. You've missed the point.

And I suppose showing ranked matches is more convincing than social? Last time I checked, social is easier to win in than ranked. But since you made it sound like you agree with Dusk and approve his irrationality, then let me go ahead and point out some ranked failures for you.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=954807 177&player=ItStartsAtDusK

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=870304 847&player=ItStartsAtDusK

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=847610 621&player=ItStartsAtDusK

I tried to pick matches where he came in first.

ANd yea I know everyone has their share of bad matches, including me, but to shout out that a 50 is nothing to achieve legitimately, yet shows off to have less than mediocre win/loss ratio against people his level (~35) simply annoys me >.>

In fact, I won't even accept his claim that he has kicked many 50s' butts until he gives me at least 2 matches where he versus a fifty(s) in some match and totally destroys him (according to Bungie stats). And if he did verse some, he would have most likely versed 50s in social, where most players, especially generals, play to joke around or warm-up and aren't serious enough to give a damn. I can be one to reinforce this because I also take social slayer very lightly and even let myself go afk quite often. (Although in the recent last months that i've played H3, I always hopped right into ranked playlists when I got on because I didn't care about my rank due to their stability)

[Edited on 06.28.2011 3:23 PM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 3:13 PM PDT

Daodan Latency at 65%

U MAD BRO is the only thing I can say in response to ben. Halo 1 requires more skill as a game than Halo 2 does, this is a fact.

  • 06.28.2011 4:53 PM PDT