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  • Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required
Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required

and yes, i did read all of the posts from page one on.

  • 06.28.2011 10:30 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.


But do you agree that cooperating with teammates and knowing who to shoot, how to shoot and when to shoot (well basically the 5 W's) are acquired skills?

If you agree to this, then everything I said makes sense to you. Based on Dusk's thousands of repetitive responses, he does not agree with this.

[Edited on 06.28.2011 10:36 PM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 10:33 PM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.

I can actually see where you're coming from, but where this falls apart is that it only takes one person to whore a rocket launcher or sword and sit at a choke point consistently killing players that are better than them. Anybody who has played any Halo game knows that any player, especially one who really really sucks, can pick up a rocket launcher, sit in a corner with their reticule on the flag point, and provide the cheap and unskilled yet effective defense that wins the game for the team with worse players. Halo 2 only enhanced that.

  • 06.28.2011 10:35 PM PDT

Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.


But do you agree that cooperating with teammates and knowing who to shoot, how to shoot and when to shoot (well basically the 5 W's) are acquired skills?

If you agree to this, then everything I said makes sense to you.

they are acquired skills but some are team skills whereas some are individual skills.

  • 06.28.2011 10:36 PM PDT
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Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Ben2974
how to shoot and when to shoot

This right here proves that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't need to know how to shoot in Halo 2. The game does it for you.

  • 06.28.2011 10:36 PM PDT

Posted by: DusK
Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.

I can actually see where you're coming from, but where this falls apart is that it only takes one person to whore a rocket launcher or sword and sit at a choke point consistently killing players that are better than them. Anybody who has played any Halo game knows that any player, especially one who really really sucks, can pick up a rocket launcher, sit in a corner with their reticule on the flag point, and provide the cheap and unskilled yet effective defense that wins the game for the team with worse players. Halo 2 only enhanced that.

but if you were paying attention to your teammates you would wonder why they died and their body flew across the map, then you would be prepared to go up against somebody.

  • 06.28.2011 10:38 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK

Posted by: Ben2974
how to shoot and when to shoot

This right here proves that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't need to know how to shoot in Halo 2. The game does it for you.


The how part is well, scratch that. Technically everyone knows how to shoot. I'm just trying to make a general point.

  • 06.28.2011 10:39 PM PDT

Posted by: DusK

Posted by: Ben2974
how to shoot and when to shoot

This right here proves that you don't know what you're talking about. You don't need to know how to shoot in Halo 2. The game does it for you.

it still doesn't do it for you, and this shows where they took pressure off individual skills, not all the pressure but some.

  • 06.28.2011 10:40 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: awinnik1
Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.


But do you agree that cooperating with teammates and knowing who to shoot, how to shoot and when to shoot (well basically the 5 W's) are acquired skills?

If you agree to this, then everything I said makes sense to you.

they are acquired skills but some are team skills whereas some are individual skills.


And do you agree that those individual skills on who to shoot, when to shoot, what to shoot (etc etc) are present in Halo 2?

  • 06.28.2011 10:42 PM PDT

Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: awinnik1
Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.


But do you agree that cooperating with teammates and knowing who to shoot, how to shoot and when to shoot (well basically the 5 W's) are acquired skills?

If you agree to this, then everything I said makes sense to you.

they are acquired skills but some are team skills whereas some are individual skills.


And do you agree that those individual skills on who to shoot, when to shoot, what to shoot (etc etc) are present in Halo 2?

they are present, but they have been relived significantly.

  • 06.28.2011 10:43 PM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: awinnik1
but if you were paying attention to your teammates you would wonder why they died and their body flew across the map, then you would be prepared to go up against somebody.

And at that point you have three options: Wait for a power weapon to respawn and risk the high chance of them getting it if (more than likely when) you die, send in enough teammates to deplete that noobcrap garbage excuse for a player of his ammo (padding his stats with undeserved kills in the process), or go in and shoot it out like you actually have a pair.

Unfortunately, doing the latter wins skill-based games, and doing it in Halo 2 and up gets you a loss.

As for Ben's post, there's no logic behind it. In Halo 2 and above, when to shoot is immediate, who to shoot is the guy that crossed your camp spot, and what to shoot is the power weapon you're whoring.

[Edited on 06.28.2011 10:46 PM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 10:44 PM PDT

i have to say that every time i let my balls out and shoot it out, i lead with a grenade. takes down the shields and gives me an opportunity.

  • 06.28.2011 10:48 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: awinnik1
Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: awinnik1
Posted by: Ben2974

Posted by: awinnik1
ah -blam!- it. there is individual skill and there is team skills. individual skill is aiming, dodging, tossing nades and such. team skills are knowing where to go and who to shoot to best benefit your team. Halo 1 was too much geared to the individual skills, people that could kill most of the other team by themselves, whereas halo 2 was made to be fun for the whole team. sure there is auto aim but now everyone in the team is useful, in halo one you would get instances of one or two people on a team dominating because the slightly worse players couldn't quite match them, in halo 2 it is set up that maybe the game doesn't need as much individual skill but now the whole team is useful. NEITHER GAME IS BETTER OR WORSE, just different.


But do you agree that cooperating with teammates and knowing who to shoot, how to shoot and when to shoot (well basically the 5 W's) are acquired skills?

If you agree to this, then everything I said makes sense to you.

they are acquired skills but some are team skills whereas some are individual skills.


And do you agree that those individual skills on who to shoot, when to shoot, what to shoot (etc etc) are present in Halo 2?

they are present, but they have been relived significantly.


See im just gathering up my info here in order to help fortify my points. In Halo1 there isn't much for you to acquire except the ability to aim and hit flawlessly. In Halo 2 you got all that other crap I just mumbled about (each "W" is basically a category comprising of all the stuff i've said and haven't said that help increase the skill of a player in Halo 2) to help differentiate a mediocre player and a godly player. In halo 1 all you had to do was be able to aim and hit and then- wait a second i'm just connecting back to my thoughts from the very beginning of this thread.

:D

  • 06.28.2011 10:49 PM PDT

Posted by: DusK


As for Ben's post, there's no logic behind it. In Halo 2 and above, when to shoot is immediate, who to shoot is the guy that crossed your camp spot, and what to shoot is the power weapon you're whoring.

or you can be me or any of my friends and stroll out with the AR like we own the place, then win.

  • 06.28.2011 10:50 PM PDT

Posted by: Ben2974



See im just gathering up my info here in order to help fortify my points. In Halo1 there isn't much for you to acquire except the ability to aim and hit flawlessly. In Halo 2 you got all that other crap I just mumbled about (each "W" is basically a category comprising of all the stuff i've said and haven't said that help increase the skill of a player in Halo 2) to help differentiate a mediocre player and a godly player. In halo 1 all you had to do was be able to aim and hit and then- wait a second i'm just connecting back to my thoughts from the very beginning of this thread.

:D

hey, halo one took team skills as well, it was just tough using them.

  • 06.28.2011 10:52 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK
Posted by: awinnik1
but if you were paying attention to your teammates you would wonder why they died and their body flew across the map, then you would be prepared to go up against somebody.

And at that point you have three options: Wait for a power weapon to respawn and risk the high chance of them getting it if (more than likely when) you die, send in enough teammates to deplete that noobcrap garbage excuse for a player of his ammo (padding his stats with undeserved kills in the process), or go in and shoot it out like you actually have a pair.

Unfortunately, doing the latter wins skill-based games, and doing it in Halo 2 and up gets you a loss.

As for Ben's post, there's no logic behind it. In Halo 2 and above, when to shoot is immediate, who to shoot is the guy that crossed your camp spot, and what to shoot is the power weapon you're whoring.


Or if you're an experienced player, here are some other options:

When to shoot: When he doesn't notice you. When you know you have cover in chaotic firefights. When he's busy fighting someone else.

Who to shoot: The guy with lower shields/health. The guy that's in the open field. The guy that's pulling the team ahead during a critical period in the match (for example he's got his sniper on the "Sniper 2" callout on "The Pit").

What to shoot: Shoot the power core that's next to him to drop his shields significantly (or kill him instantly). Shoot around the area that spawns power weapons in order to keep them for yourself.

The list goes on for all the W's.

:D

  • 06.28.2011 10:59 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: awinnik1
Posted by: Ben2974



See im just gathering up my info here in order to help fortify my points. In Halo1 there isn't much for you to acquire except the ability to aim and hit flawlessly. In Halo 2 you got all that other crap I just mumbled about (each "W" is basically a category comprising of all the stuff i've said and haven't said that help increase the skill of a player in Halo 2) to help differentiate a mediocre player and a godly player. In halo 1 all you had to do was be able to aim and hit and then- wait a second i'm just connecting back to my thoughts from the very beginning of this thread.

:D

hey, halo one took team skills as well, it was just tough using them.


I did say that aiming and hitting is, in my opinion, just about 3/4's of the skill needed. There's 25% of your skill bar left that may include some teamwork and some other stuff.

UGH! I really am just recycling my thoughts again. Fck this.

  • 06.28.2011 11:01 PM PDT

I'M AWESOME

  • 06.28.2011 11:08 PM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Ben2974
In Halo1 there isn't much for you to acquire except the ability to aim and hit flawlessly.

Cover positioning.
Tactical use of pups and medkits.
Situational awareness for large areas.
Anti-vehicle tactics.
Grenade baiting.
Large-scale opponent prediction.
Objective tactics.
Vehicle combat and handling.
Terrain awareness.

You know nothing about this freaking game. You know nothing of the FPS genre. All you know is noobcrap swill that lets you pretend to be good at something you straight-up suck at.

  • 06.28.2011 11:15 PM PDT

Halo Reach PC über alles!


Posted by: Ben2974

If you only know how to shoot your target, you can't win. You've missed the point.

And I suppose showing ranked matches is more convincing than social? Last time I checked, social is easier to win in than ranked. But since you made it sound like you agree with Dusk and approve his irrationality, then let me go ahead and point out some ranked failures for you.

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=954807 177&player=ItStartsAtDusK

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=870304 847&player=ItStartsAtDusK

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=847610 621&player=ItStartsAtDusK

I tried to pick matches where he came in first.

ANd yea I know everyone has their share of bad matches, including me, but to shout out that a 50 is nothing to achieve legitimately, yet shows off to have less than mediocre win/loss ratio against people his level (~35) simply annoys me >.>

In fact, I won't even accept his claim that he has kicked many 50s' butts until he gives me at least 2 matches where he versus a fifty(s) in some match and totally destroys him (according to Bungie stats). And if he did verse some, he would have most likely versed 50s in social, where most players, especially generals, play to joke around or warm-up and aren't serious enough to give a damn. I can be one to reinforce this because I also take social slayer very lightly and even let myself go afk quite often. (Although in the recent last months that i've played H3, I always hopped right into ranked playlists when I got on because I didn't care about my rank due to their stability)


Why would you ever need to know about "map control" if the object of any FPS is to shoot anything that wants to kill you? I see you did not read what I said below my reply to you.

First off, that was exactly my point, DusK wouldn't take social seriously because people playing in that playlist play for fun not rank. Secondly, I couldn't give less of a toss about DusK's failures, He still has you 6 to 0 assuming someone can waste their precious time searching through 700+ games (I looked at the ranked matches particularly the slayer ones, couldn't find any where he faced a general, so it is probably hidden in all the team battles/social games)


Posted by: awinnik1
I'M AWESOME


And SO AM I!

[Edited on 06.28.2011 11:37 PM PDT]

  • 06.28.2011 11:22 PM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: i Conker
Why would you ever need to know about "map control" if the object of any FPS is to shoot anything that wants to kill you? I see you did not read what I said below my reply to you.

This. "Map control" is just a shorter way of saying "I suck, so I'm gonna sit around one spot because it gives me an advantage that allows me to beat players that are actually better than me."

Posted by: i Conker
First off, that was exactly my point, DusK wouldn't take social seriously because people playing in that playlist play for fun not rank. Secondly, I couldn't give less of a toss about DusK's failures, He still has you 6 to 0 assuming someone can waste their precious time searching through 700+ games (I looked at the ranked matches particularly the slayer ones, couldn't find any where he faced a general, so it is probably hidden in all the team battles/social games)

This also.

Besides, Ben, why would you bother searching through my matches to prove your point? After all, it only took 30 seconds to bring up your heatmaps to prove mine; that you're a sackless little camping and "power weapon" whore. The second floor tunnel in Cold Storage? The rocket launcher area on The Pit? Camp Froman? Back areas of the top floor of Construct? You're clearly lacking testicular fortitude.

And that's why you have a 50. If the game caters to people that are bad at FPS and favor cowardice over actual skill, they'll reap the most from it. I guess I can't blame you for defending it; if I was garbage at FPS, I probably would too.

  • 06.28.2011 11:54 PM PDT

Daodan Latency at 65%

I am pretty sure I could take anyone on these forums in a game of CTF and win by just flag captures and zero kills. Regardless of who you play with, what map and what weapon load-out you need some semblance of teamwork to score in objective based games in Halo 1. You need people working together, especially ones that can shoot. Based on your argument that it is just good shooting alone that makes the game should point out that Halo 1 comes out on top. We don't have weapons that can follow you around corners.

I think the fact that a lot of people that play Halo 1 seriously would have moved to Halo 2 if they found it to be more competitive or had more skill based components in the game.

  • 06.29.2011 3:58 AM PDT

Posted by: i Conker



Posted by: awinnik1
I'M AWESOME


And SO AM I!

i totally fist bumped you.

  • 06.29.2011 7:53 AM PDT

so do you guys want to play halo one now?

  • 06.29.2011 8:00 AM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Posted by: Dirk_Gently
I think the fact that a lot of people that play Halo 1 seriously would have moved to Halo 2 if they found it to be more competitive or had more skill based components in the game.

Exactly. The game had potential. If it had been a proper PC port, I'd have played it since release.

  • 06.29.2011 9:09 AM PDT