Halo 1 & 2 for PC
This topic has moved here: Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required
  • Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required
Subject: The Ultimate Reasons Why Halo 1 > Halo 2 In Terms of Skill Required

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK
I freakin' addressed what you said head-on. You said "using cramped spots to your advantage" and "waiting for weapon respawns" take skill. I explained in great detail why they don't. You're only pretending I didn't.

So here it is again. Actually read it this time.


Using a cramped area to your advantage is essentially choke point watching. You're slimming down the area that you need to aim at in order to make your shot count, solely because you wouldn't otherwise be able to aim at your opponent correctly if he were able to move around effectively. No skill-based game facilitates this mechanic because good aim by a player defines the skill-gap in FPS games.

Waiting for a weapon respawn would be pointless unless it was a weapon that gave you an advantage over players that are better than you. In the section above, it's clearly explained how the power weapon concept caters to the unskilled. Therefore, depending on these weapons to respawn to the point where they become critical to your success denotes that you have zero skill and wouldn't be able to win if the playing field was even among players.

Now you can't feign ignorance. Your rebuttal?



"you're slimming down the area that you need to aim at in order to make your shot count".

As if it's that hard to point your reticle in the general area of your target. That's not dumbing the skill down at all.

"Moving effectively"...do you mean strafing? Because last I checked it's easier to hit an opponent that's walking in one direction than moving unpredictably in both directions very quickly. Do you need the open space Blood Gulch has to strafe? No.

It all makes it harder because you can make the use of grenades very poorly or very well, the protective walls, and your weapon for tactical purposes. Well you think it's noobish that the guy pulls out a shotgun in the condensed area to pick a kill? Well that's just the smarter thing to do; the skilled player would have two complimentary weapons at all times. But don't worry. If the player facing the shotgun was skilled, he'd make use of his grenades. He'd lure him out. He'd keep a distance. Knowing when, how and what to do is part of it as well.


"good aim by player defines the skill-gap in FPS games."

Yeah, maybe when games had nothing to them. But the skill required can get much more complex than just being able to shoot and hit the opponent. (For more information on skill-gap, please revisit the earlier pages of this thread).


"depending on these weapons to respawn to the point where they become critical to your success denotes that you have zero skill and wouldn't be able to win if the playing field was even among players"

You're right. Those guys would be noobs, and even if they got a hold of the power weapons, they'd still lose to skillful players. Your point?





[Edited on 07.03.2011 7:18 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 7:12 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Ben2974
"you're slimming down the area that you need to aim at in order to make your shot count".

As if it's that hard to point your reticle in the general area of your target. That's not dumbing the skill down at all.

Problem is, in H2 and above, aiming in your opponent's general direction is all you need to do to land a hit. Pinpoint aiming isn't necessary thanks to the auto-aim.

Posted by: Ben2974
"Moving effectively"...do you mean strafing? Because last I checked it's easier to hit an opponent that's walking in one direction than moving unpredictably in both directions very quickly. Do you need the open space Blood Gulch has to strafe? No.

But you'd need a wider area than many of the areas in Lockout offer to strafe effectively. Take that out, and you have massive mobility restriction. As a result, corridors become deathtraps, and bad players can watch them and wait for someone to pop out.

Posted by: Ben2974
It all makes it harder because you can make the use of grenades very poorly or very well, the protective walls, and your weapon for tactical purposes. Well you think it's noobish that the guy pulls out a shotgun in the condensed area to pick a kill? Well that's just the smarter thing to do; the skilled player would have two complimentary weapons at all times. But don't worry. If the player facing the shotgun was skilled, he'd make use of his grenades. He'd lure him out. He'd keep a distance. Knowing when, how and what to do is part of it as well.

That's my point. You're essentially allowing bad players an advantage over good players given circumstance. At this point, it stops being about shooting and starts being about hide and seek. Anybody can do hide and seek.

Posted by: Ben2974
"good aim by player defines the skill-gap in FPS games."

Yeah, maybe when games had nothing to them. But the skill required can get much more complex than just being able to shoot and hit the opponent. (For more information on skill-gap, please revisit the earlier pages of this thread).

Your explanation is so fundamentally flawed I could write a post as elaborate as that little essay I wrote about H2 not taking any skill to being with. How about it, Ben; Would you like a detailed post about your entire misconception of FPS skill?

Posted by: Ben2974
"depending on these weapons to respawn to the point where they become critical to your success denotes that you have zero skill and wouldn't be able to win if the playing field was even among players"

You're right. Those guys would be noobs, and even if they got a hold of the power weapons, they'd still lose to skillful players. Your point?

At this point you contradicted yourself. You claimed that waiting for weapon respawns was a skill, then in this post, you said it's not. Which is it?

Not only that, but bad players who get power weapons do beat players that have more skill. If a weapon provides a one-shot kill with absolutely no aiming necessary whatsover, that weapon will allow you to beat a better player holding a weapon that requires not only aim, but more shots to kill. That's called weapon imbalance, and weapon imbalance reduces the skill necessary to take out your opponents.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 7:36 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 7:35 PM PDT

Halo Reach PC über alles!


Posted by: Ben2974
Conker, what type of camping are you thinking of?

Are you thinking of the cowardice camping where you hide behind a popular room (such as a rocket room) corner with a shotgun and wait for any passerby to find himself in a trap, or are you thinking of the one that takes his sniper and mounts onto a cliff or high area to keep a tactical eye out for his teammates and at the same time pick people off whenever possible?


Considering I mentioned power weapons, I would have to say option 1.


The second suggestion is a tactical way of "camping", or controlling the area for your advantage. Also, this type of "camping" can get you killed, too. A sniper can pick you off. Grenades can pick you off, etc. It's just a matter of how good you are, or how skill you are, in order to keep your position secure and continue scoring for the team, or helping passively, or even to gain points for yourself (FFA). But this type of map control is crucial to winning the match, because it's super beneficial for you and/or your team, but at the same time, hard to maintain. The better you are at map control, the better chance you have at winning the match.


I say again, all you are really doing in an FPS is shooting a gun at anything that looks like a player, whether it be a assault rifle or a sniper. Besides that isn't map control as you describe it, on the contrary, it has more to do with your skill at aiming a gun than it does map control. And that is fine, but it endorses and introduces another problem (varying on the map,) Spawnkilling.


Of course, you need other skills in order to enhance your map controlling skills. Usually raw play time can help you determine the best ways to maintain map control. After a while one will figure out where,when, and what's best to control during a match.


And I still stand wondering how map control affects how I play Halo.


Note to everyone that is tired of reading about skill and gameplay, etc: I don't think it would hurt to keep one thread regarding the topic. I will try my best to limit my thoughts concerning H2 vs H1 in this thread only.

Thank you.


I think this thread will need a re-title if that is the case.

  • 07.03.2011 7:40 PM PDT

Halo 3

"Problem is, in H2 and above, aiming in your opponent's general direction is all you need to do to land a hit. Pinpoint aiming isn't necessary thanks to the auto-aim."

Even if that were true (which it's not. Aiming somewhere near the target is easier in h2, but keeping it on the person still requires skill), that's not the argument at hand here. The point is that no matter the size of the map, you'll get your cross-hair in the general area of the opponent.


"But you'd need a wider area than many of the areas in Lockout offer to strafe effectively. Take that out, and you have massive mobility restriction. As a result, corridors become deathtraps, and bad players can watch them and wait for someone to pop out."

Corridors only become death traps because you walk into them. The ability to strafe is futile at this point anyways. That's why it's not always about your precision weapon. If you decide to walk into those tiny corridors, take out a better-suited weapon and/or throw a couple grenades before entering.

"That's my point. You're essentially allowing bad players an advantage over good players given circumstance. At this point, it stops being about shooting and starts being about hide and seek. Anybody can do hide and seek."

That's why the skill gap in H2 is small, because it's easy to take advantage of the places in the case for many player. But, I have to stress this man: Skill gap =/= skill. One may be able to take advantage of the hiding spots, but with all the choices a skilled player can make, it would only make it easier for him to defeat the camper because the skilled player would know how to take advantage of the camper. Think about it. You don't even have to play hide and seek. If the noob decides to stay there and wait, then let him be. While they do that, just go around the map, cautiously, and pick up whatever you need along the way such as power weapons, power ups, grenades, anything you might want to help secure a win. And besides, the more experience one has with campers, the easier it will be for one to suspect where one would hide; after all, there are only so many places that one can hide successfully.

"Your explanation is so fundamentally flawed I could write a post as elaborate as that little essay I wrote about H2 not taking any skill to being with. How about it, Ben; Would you like a detailed post about your entire misconception of FPS skill?"

Wasn't it you that helped fortify my point that there is more to an fps than just being able to aim and hit an opponent? Yes, it was you, who pointed out ~6 other things that were required to help solidify one's gaming skills in order to be on top. Simply put (like I have said previously in this thread), Halo 2 requires a little less of the ability to "aim and hit" than Halo 1, but more of the other things. So therefore the skill gap is not defined by one's ability to hit dead-on every single shot, but it is all the other things that help generate the skill gap in Halo 2. All of those "other things" help determine whether or not the player will be able to overcome the "campers" and "mass mediocre skill" in the H2 population.

"At this point you contradicted yourself. You claimed that waiting for weapon respawns was a skill, then in this post, you said it's not. Which is it?

Not only that, but bad players who get power weapons do beat players that have more skill. If a weapon provides a one-shot kill with absolutely no aiming necessary whatsover, that weapon will allow you to beat a better player holding a weapon that requires not only aim, but more shots to kill. That's called weapon imbalance, and weapon imbalance reduces the skill necessary to take out your opponents."

I really hope I didn't say that waiting for weapon respawns is a skill. I believe I said that the ability to keep in control of the spawning, making sure that your opponent does not get them, is a required skill to separate you from the rest of the players. What's one way to do this? Map control.



My conclusion: Since being able to aim and hit isn't as big a goal as it is/was in H1 and most other fps, it's the player's primary goal in Halo2+ to become better than others at the sub-primaries, or secondary skills.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 8:39 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 8:22 PM PDT

Halo 3

"Considering I mentioned power weapons, I would have to say option 1."


Then that is your problem, Conker.

Yeah, I said you need to be able to hit your opponents, too. Keeping the control of the map puts more stress on your opponents and makes it easier to map out the general movements of your opponents.

  • 07.03.2011 8:27 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Ben2974
"Problem is, in H2 and above, aiming in your opponent's general direction is all you need to do to land a hit. Pinpoint aiming isn't necessary thanks to the auto-aim."

Even if that were true (which it's not. Aiming somewhere near the target is easier in h2, but keeping it on the person still requires skill), that's not the argument at hand here. The point is that no matter the size of the map, you'll get your cross-hair in the general area of the opponent.

Keeping aim on an opponent does NOT require skill in Halo 2.

So we've established that the game does the aiming for you. How is that skill-based?

Posted by: Ben2974
"But you'd need a wider area than many of the areas in Lockout offer to strafe effectively. Take that out, and you have massive mobility restriction. As a result, corridors become deathtraps, and bad players can watch them and wait for someone to pop out."

Corridors only become death traps because you walk into them.
Because they're the only way out? The ability to strafe is futile at this point anyways. That's why it's not always about your precision weapon. If you decide to walk into those tiny corridors, take out a better-suited weapon and/or throw a couple grenades before entering.

More often than not, some tight area where you can't strafe is the only path you can go along. This allows bad players to grab weapons that are far too overpowered given that situation and beat players that are better than them if it were truly a level playing field.

As explained in my massive post in the other thread, a competitive FPS game should never provide a situation where a weapon drastically overpowers another to the point where a lesser-skilled player can kill a greater-skilled player. I gave a prime example with UT; a bad player with a flak cannon will still lose against a good player with a sniper rifle in a close-quarters setting. Therefore, the game is skill-based. That's not the case in Halo 2; a camper sitting in the tunnel with a shotgun/sword/rocket launcher can easily kill someone going down that tunnel with a BR, even if that player is significantly more skilled than the camper.

Essentially, the point you're making praises imbalanced gameplay, and uneven playing field, and rewarding a player who plays like a coward rather than someone with any balls. Anybody can sit in a cave with a shotgun and wait for someone to run down it. That doesn't require skill at all.

Posted by: Ben2974
"That's my point. You're essentially allowing bad players an advantage over good players given circumstance. At this point, it stops being about shooting and starts being about hide and seek. Anybody can do hide and seek."

That's why the skill gap in H2 is small, because it's easy to take advantage of the places in the case for many player. But, I have to stress this man: Skill gap =/= skill. One may be able to take advantage of the hiding spots, but with all the choices a skilled player can make, it would only make it easier for him to defeat the camper because the skilled player would know how to take advantage of the camper. Think about it. You don't even have to play hide and seek. If the noob decides to stay there and wait, then let him be. While they do that, just go around the map, cautiously, and pick up whatever you need along the way such as power weapons, power ups, grenades, anything you might want to help secure a win. And besides, the more experience one has with campers, the easier it will be for one to suspect where one would hide; after all, there are only so many places that one can hide successfully.

You essentially said that if a camper is sitting in a hole, instead of facing off against him with the skills that nearly FPS in the world bases their gameplay on, it's better to play like a coward by grabbing overpowered weapons and playing equally like a coward by relying on those noobified weapons. And somehow all that takes skill.

No. It's still hide and seek. Only a garbage FPS player would actually believe that two people playing the "I don't wanna aim so I'm gonna hide and rely on big explosions entirely" game is skill-based.

Posted by: Ben2974
"Your explanation is so fundamentally flawed I could write a post as elaborate as that little essay I wrote about H2 not taking any skill to being with. How about it, Ben; Would you like a detailed post about your entire misconception of FPS skill?"

Wasn't it you that helped fortify my point that there is more to an fps than just being able to aim and hit an opponent? Yes, it was you, who pointed out ~6 other things that were required to help solidify one's gaming skills in order to be on top. Simply put (like I have said previously in this thread), Halo 2 requires a little less of the ability to "aim and hit" than Halo 1, but more of the other things. So therefore the skill gap is not defined by one's ability to hit dead-on every single shot, but it is all the other things that help generate the skill gap in Halo 2. All of those "other things" help determine whether or not the player will be able to overcome the "campers" and "mass mediocre skill" in the H2 population.

Essentially I'm agreeing with you here for the most part. Halo 2 does require more of "the other stuff" than aiming. Where you're wrong is believing that hiding, relying on overpowered weapons, camping, and general cowardice take skill.

Keep in mind that it's a first-person shooter. It should revolve around a player's ability to shoot. In a skill-based first-person shooter, marksmanship never takes a back seat to anything, especially not hiding or relying on overpowered weapons that any noob can use. If it does, it's no longer skill-based.

Posted by: Ben2974
"At this point you contradicted yourself. You claimed that waiting for weapon respawns was a skill, then in this post, you said it's not. Which is it?

Not only that, but bad players who get power weapons do beat players that have more skill. If a weapon provides a one-shot kill with absolutely no aiming necessary whatsover, that weapon will allow you to beat a better player holding a weapon that requires not only aim, but more shots to kill. That's called weapon imbalance, and weapon imbalance reduces the skill necessary to take out your opponents."

I really hope I didn't say that waiting for weapon respawns is a skill. I believe I said that the ability to keep in control of the spawning, making sure that your opponent does not get them, is a required skill to separate you from the rest of the players.

So it's not a first-person shooter. It's first-person counting. I'm sure counting is hard for you, but it's not for me, so I guess a game revolving around it just won't appeal to me.

Posted by: Ben2974
My conclusion: Since being able to aim and hit isn't as big a goal as it is/was in H1 and most other fps, it's the player's primary goal in Halo2+ to become better than others at the sub-primaries, or secondary skills.

Secondary skills should never provide a win over someone who has mastered the primary focus of competitive FPS.

My conclusion: Because easy tasks that anybody can do, such as using massively overpowered weapons, camping, and "map control" can yield a victory over someone who has better reflexes, hand-eye coordination, and aim, the game caters to those who are bad at FPS and does not take skill.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 8:57 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 8:53 PM PDT

Halo 3

Where you're wrong is believing that hiding, relying on overpowered weapons, camping, and general cowardice take skill.
So is this where your anger stems from? Wtf man, I never ever ever ever EVER said this. It's things like this that make it so there is no point in arguing with you. Like I said in that other thread: "what good will it do if you choose not to recognize my evaluations?"



[Edited on 07.03.2011 10:12 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 9:12 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Ben2974
Where you're wrong is believing that hiding, relying on overpowered weapons, camping, and general cowardice take skill.
So is this where your anger stems from? Wtf man, I never ever ever ever EVER said this.

You don't even know what you're saying anymore, apparently. You typed this earlier, and must have forgotten about it:

Posted by: Ben2974
If the noob decides to stay there and wait, then let him be. While they do that, just go around the map, cautiously, and pick up whatever you need along the way such as power weapons, power ups, grenades, anything you might want to help secure a win.


Abridged version: If your opponent plays like a coward, play like a coward.

A camper has no skill. The best way to counter is to run around and grab the stuff that also makes the game take no skill. All of a sudden the game takes skill to play. Do you realize how stupid that sounds yet?

I'm gonna make this short and sweet for you. Maybe then you'll get it. Everything you're saying takes skill -camping, power weapon whoring/waiting for, the power weapon concept in general, "map control", using cramped/tight spots, ect- doesn't. Therefore, since Halo 2 places these easy concepts above the primary focus of a skill-based FPS, marksmanship, the game takes no skill to play.

[Edited on 07.03.2011 10:33 PM PDT]

  • 07.03.2011 10:28 PM PDT

Halo 3

"I'm gonna make this short and sweet for you. Maybe then you'll get it. Everything you're saying takes skill -camping, power weapon whoring/waiting for, the power weapon concept in general, "map control", using cramped/tight spots, ect- doesn't. Therefore, since Halo 2 places these easy concepts above the primary focus of a skill-based FPS, marksmanship, the game takes no skill to play."

What else am I supposed to say other than you're wrong? Like, wow! It's even right in front of you. "If the noob decides to stay there and wait, then let him be." Does the word noob mean professional player? No it does not.

I never said camping or power weapon whoring takes skill, in fact, I condemn that; however, I just explained how map control and other features are skills that are great assets to a halo player.

And what I said early is only a suggestion to someone that would be unsure about his abilities in handling those pesky campers. You don't have to do what I said and walk around the map getting all buffed up for the camper. If you were good, you could do the other things I said like throwing grenades as bait or do corner checks with a suitable weapon. Sure, you could take it easy and arm yourself to the teeth before you walk into any sketchy hallway, but that's never necessary unless you're bad at handling campers and decide to waltz into the small room holding a battlerifle.

Take Battlefield 2 for instance. The goal is to capture flag points as territories in order to advance yourselves further into enemy territory and help set up tactical points for invasion, etc. When I'm chilling at the flag area to capture it, it's 99% of the time near some buildings or built-in infrastructures that give protection to the player if needed. Now if I had the choice to hold a shotgun or an ak47, which would I choose if I were to suddenly encounter a stray enemy that walks around the corner of the block and pops up in my face? The answer is the shotgun. This also works vice versa as well.

  • 07.03.2011 11:01 PM PDT

This is a Reach account that I created the day they announced his name in a bnet weekly update. Any stats regarding ODST or Halo 3 are irrelevant. Also, Halo CE master race. Halo 1 > other halo games > other games.

Account Status: Silver :(

Halo 2 fans will never learn. Look most of them never played CE multiplayer in its prime (LAN parties with IRL friends, tournaments), and they are all living in their own nostalgic light. Despite the videos that point out obvious flaws to their noobified game, they continue to counter layered evidence with no evidence. Not to mention I noticed a lot of funny things happening in a poll I made describing a similar comparison.

  • 07.03.2011 11:02 PM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: NOBLE SlX
Halo 2 fans will never learn. Look most of them never played CE multiplayer in its prime (LAN parties with IRL friends, tournaments), and they are all living in their own nostalgic light. Despite the videos that point out obvious flaws to their noobified game, they continue to counter layered evidence with no evidence. Not to mention I noticed a lot of funny things happening in a poll I made describing a similar comparison.


There are no "skill flaws" with these games. One thing is taken out, another thing is put in. It will be just as hard to master Halo 1, 2, or 3 as it is to master. . . Halo 1, 2, or 3. Hahaha

  • 07.03.2011 11:19 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.


Posted by: Ben2974
"I'm gonna make this short and sweet for you. Maybe then you'll get it. Everything you're saying takes skill -camping, power weapon whoring/waiting for, the power weapon concept in general, "map control", using cramped/tight spots, ect- doesn't. Therefore, since Halo 2 places these easy concepts above the primary focus of a skill-based FPS, marksmanship, the game takes no skill to play."

What else am I supposed to say other than you're wrong?

I'm not about to say you're right. After all, between us, there's only one liar.

Posted by: Ben2974
Like, wow! It's even right in front of you. "If the noob decides to stay there and wait, then let him be." Does the word noob mean professional player? No it does not.

And it's right in front of your face; The fact that a noob can get anywhere by camping, even if it's killing a better player even once, denotes a game that takes no skill to play. You're only defending this so adamantly because you do it too.

And don't deny it. I've seen your H3 heatmaps. You play like a royal -blam!-.

Posted by: Ben2974
I never said camping or power weapon whoring takes skill, in fact, I condemn that; however, I just explained how map control and other features are skills that are great assets to a halo player.

Except they're not skills. Anyone can watch or sit on a section of the map. Anyone can sit around waiting for a stupidly overpowered weapon. Anybody can do that stuff. It's not hard at all unless you're freakin' stupid. Therefore, because these unskilled aspect of the game are "great assets to a Halo player," the game takes no skill to play.

Posted by: Ben2974
And what I said early is only a suggestion to someone that would be unsure about his abilities in handling those pesky campers. You don't have to do what I said and walk around the map getting all buffed up for the camper. If you were good, you could do the other things I said like throwing grenades as bait or do corner checks with a suitable weapon. Sure, you could take it easy and arm yourself to the teeth before you walk into any sketchy hallway, but that's never necessary unless you're bad at handling campers and decide to waltz into the small room holding a battlerifle.

You're contradicting yourself. If someone's in a small space sitting there with a rocket launcher, you're not gonna kill him with a standard weapon. You have two choices at that point in order to kill him; get a coward weapon on par with what he's holding, or die. You can't say something like "You don't have to do what I said and walk around the map getting all buffed up for the camper" and then express that a "suitable weapon" would be needed to handle him. Self contradiction in the same paragraph does not help your case.

Posted by: Ben2974
Take Battlefield 2 for instance. The goal is to capture flag points as territories in order to advance yourselves further into enemy territory and help set up tactical points for invasion, etc. When I'm chilling at the flag area to capture it, it's 99% of the time near some buildings or built-in infrastructures that give protection to the player if needed. Now if I had the choice to hold a shotgun or an ak47, which would I choose if I were to suddenly encounter a stray enemy that walks around the corner of the block and pops up in my face? The answer is the shotgun. This also works vice versa as well.

Difference being that in BF2 you can miss with the shotgun, whereas in H2 and above it's practically auto-kill. If that AK47-wielding player is better than you in your example situation, you'll die.

  • 07.03.2011 11:25 PM PDT

Posted by: HiredN00bs
Arrogant hyperbolic exclamations of woe? Seems like a normal day for Halo/Bungie.net.

What the -blam!- is the point of this thread?

Only retards would think that Halo 2 takes more skill in any way, shape or form.

You're extreme nerds for arguing 8 pages about this.

  • 07.04.2011 2:40 AM PDT


Posted by: Method Man NYC
What the -blam!- is the point of this thread?

Only retards would think that Halo 2 takes more skill in any way, shape or form.

You're extreme nerds for arguing 8 pages about this.


I just started this thread. Now I am just going to sit back and watch. Its kinda funny lol.

  • 07.04.2011 3:33 AM PDT

Quite... popcorn anyone?

  • 07.04.2011 4:26 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Senior Heroic Member

<------Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo: Reach, and Halo 4 emblem.

I agree with most of what the OP said, except for the part about movement. The faster pace of Halo 1 is attributed to faster kill times and slower movement speeds compared to Halo 2. People could kill others faster, and others couldn't escape as fast in Halo 1, whereas the jump height and movement speed in Halo 2 was much faster.

  • 07.04.2011 4:32 AM PDT


Posted by: Kannan
I agree with most of what the OP said, except for the part about movement. The faster pace of Halo 1 is attributed to faster kill times and slower movement speeds compared to Halo 2. People could kill others faster, and others couldn't escape as fast in Halo 1, whereas the jump height and movement speed in Halo 2 was much faster.


In Halo 2 you could jump higher, but in Halo 1 you ran faster.

  • 07.04.2011 4:46 AM PDT

Hey guys this is what Dusk is doing to you Halo 2 noobs.

ROTFL

[Edited on 07.04.2011 4:49 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 4:48 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

I think a true comparison is in order. Someone with Halo 2 should start up a CTF game, place a flag on a flat area exactly 100 yards away (or was it meters? I don't even remember), and record a video of them running to it and see how long it takes to reach it. I'll do the same in Halo PC.

Posted by: the omega man117
Hey guys this is what Dusk is doing to you Halo 2 noobs.

ROTFL

Except I never teabag for any reason, but whatev.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 4:50 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 4:49 AM PDT


Posted by: DusK
I think a true comparison is in order. Someone with Halo 2 should start up a CTF game, place a flag on a flat area exactly 100 yards away (or was it meters? I don't even remember), and record a video of them running to it and see how long it takes to reach it. I'll do the same in Halo PC.

Posted by: the omega man117
Hey guys this is what Dusk is doing to you Halo 2 noobs.

ROTFL

Except I never teabag for any reason, but whatev.


Ya well the video would be kinda boring if the spartan was just standing there.

  • 07.04.2011 4:51 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Senior Heroic Member

<------Halo 2, Halo 3, Halo 3: ODST, Halo: Reach, and Halo 4 emblem.


Posted by: the omega man117

Posted by: Kannan
I agree with most of what the OP said, except for the part about movement. The faster pace of Halo 1 is attributed to faster kill times and slower movement speeds compared to Halo 2. People could kill others faster, and others couldn't escape as fast in Halo 1, whereas the jump height and movement speed in Halo 2 was much faster.



In Halo 2 you could jump higher, but in Halo 1 you ran faster.


Really? It never really felt like that. But then again, I only played Halo 1 recently.

[Edited on 07.04.2011 5:12 AM PDT]

  • 07.04.2011 5:12 AM PDT


Posted by: Kannan

Posted by: the omega man117

Posted by: Kannan
I agree with most of what the OP said, except for the part about movement. The faster pace of Halo 1 is attributed to faster kill times and slower movement speeds compared to Halo 2. People could kill others faster, and others couldn't escape as fast in Halo 1, whereas the jump height and movement speed in Halo 2 was much faster.



In Halo 2 you could jump higher, but in Halo 1 you ran faster.


Really? It never really felt like that. But then again, I only played Halo 1 recently.


Yep, and in Halo 3 you move slightly faster than Halo 2 but not as fast as Halo 1. Jump height is about the same as Halo 1 in Halo 3.

  • 07.04.2011 5:27 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

"A life lived for others is the only life worth living" - Albert Einstein

"I have your RCON right here." - Iggwilv

"Always my pleasure to be lazy." - InvasionImminent


Posted by: the omega man117
Jump height is about the same as Halo 1 in Halo 3.
Eh, I think you jump higher on Halo 3. That's why when making [h3]Sandtrap for Custom Edition that increased it :P

  • 07.04.2011 10:55 AM PDT

Halo 3


Posted by: DusK

Posted by: Ben2974
"I'm gonna make this short and sweet for you. Maybe then you'll get it. Everything you're saying takes skill -camping, power weapon whoring/waiting for, the power weapon concept in general, "map control", using cramped/tight spots, ect- doesn't. Therefore, since Halo 2 places these easy concepts above the primary focus of a skill-based FPS, marksmanship, the game takes no skill to play."

What else am I supposed to say other than you're wrong?

I'm not about to say you're right. After all, between us, there's only one liar.

Posted by: Ben2974
Like, wow! It's even right in front of you. "If the noob decides to stay there and wait, then let him be." Does the word noob mean professional player? No it does not.

And it's right in front of your face; The fact that a noob can get anywhere by camping, even if it's killing a better player even once, denotes a game that takes no skill to play. You're only defending this so adamantly because you do it too.

And don't deny it. I've seen your H3 heatmaps. You play like a royal -blam!-.

Posted by: Ben2974
I never said camping or power weapon whoring takes skill, in fact, I condemn that; however, I just explained how map control and other features are skills that are great assets to a halo player.

Except they're not skills. Anyone can watch or sit on a section of the map. Anyone can sit around waiting for a stupidly overpowered weapon. Anybody can do that stuff. It's not hard at all unless you're freakin' stupid. Therefore, because these unskilled aspect of the game are "great assets to a Halo player," the game takes no skill to play.

Posted by: Ben2974
And what I said early is only a suggestion to someone that would be unsure about his abilities in handling those pesky campers. You don't have to do what I said and walk around the map getting all buffed up for the camper. If you were good, you could do the other things I said like throwing grenades as bait or do corner checks with a suitable weapon. Sure, you could take it easy and arm yourself to the teeth before you walk into any sketchy hallway, but that's never necessary unless you're bad at handling campers and decide to waltz into the small room holding a battlerifle.

You're contradicting yourself. If someone's in a small space sitting there with a rocket launcher, you're not gonna kill him with a standard weapon. You have two choices at that point in order to kill him; get a coward weapon on par with what he's holding, or die. You can't say something like "You don't have to do what I said and walk around the map getting all buffed up for the camper" and then express that a "suitable weapon" would be needed to handle him. Self contradiction in the same paragraph does not help your case.

Posted by: Ben2974
Take Battlefield 2 for instance. The goal is to capture flag points as territories in order to advance yourselves further into enemy territory and help set up tactical points for invasion, etc. When I'm chilling at the flag area to capture it, it's 99% of the time near some buildings or built-in infrastructures that give protection to the player if needed. Now if I had the choice to hold a shotgun or an ak47, which would I choose if I were to suddenly encounter a stray enemy that walks around the corner of the block and pops up in my face? The answer is the shotgun. This also works vice versa as well.

Difference being that in BF2 you can miss with the shotgun, whereas in H2 and above it's practically auto-kill. If that AK47-wielding player is better than you in your example situation, you'll die.


"I'm not about to say you're right. After all, between us, there's only one liar."

You've lied many times here and there during our arguments to bolster your points. Don't deny that. Last time I "lied" was when I exaggerated the player count in H2V (as far as I remember). And make sure when you reply to this with some sort of quote coming from me saying I lied, send me the link to the thread, even if it's this one; seeing the page number will make it easier.

"And it's right in front of your face; The fact that a noob can get anywhere by camping, even if it's killing a better player even once, denotes a game that takes no skill to play. You're only defending this so adamantly because you do it too.

And don't deny it. I've seen your H3 heatmaps. You play like a royal -blam!-."

No, it only denotes that the player being beaten by the camper is just as bad, or not good enough to avoid noobish things like hiding in the rocket/camo room in "The Pit", for instance.

I will definitely deny the heatmaps. First of all, if you haven't noticed, the heat maps give us a general idea of where most battle conflicts take place. What it doesn't tell us is what is used in those battle conflicts (although you can make it show for specific weapons). For my first point, for all you know I could be whipping out the pistol, the battlerifle, the carbine, or the sniper in those areas. I'm the one that goes in there and destroys the campers, so you see so many kills in those tight areas. But why? Well, my second point is that "maps are made the way they are for a reason" (something I said earlier). What I mean by this, is that it enhances game play tactics because of the way maps are made. You NEVER have to pass through small areas to get to where you want to go on a map. There is always another large passage that can take you where you need to go. But there's strategy to small areas. Those small areas are there for power weapons and/or (because it's not always for both reasons) short cuts to get to the other side of the map (For gametype instances), just to name a couple.

Here's the catch: Small areas are breeding grounds for noobs that have to rely on camping to get kills. And to that noob's advantage, those small areas are frequented a lot due to reasons such as the couple mentioned above. So if you want to be called good, then learn to pass through those small areas (you don't even have to if you have another plan) without getting injured by the campers.


"Except they're not skills. Anyone can watch or sit on a section of the map. Anyone can sit around waiting for a stupidly overpowered weapon. Anybody can do that stuff. It's not hard at all unless you're freakin' stupid. Therefore, because these unskilled aspect of the game are "great assets to a Halo player," the game takes no skill to play."

"stupidly overpowered weapon"? No they took all of that out in the next Halos when they realized Halo 1's pistol. It's only overpowered to you because you think that a battlerifle is supposed to beat somebody using a rocket in a small corridor/pocket. You going in there with a battlerifle is noobish. Map control is part of staying in a "control zone", sort of like King of the hill. They are tactical areas that you only realize when you gain enough experience. You'd soon realize that, by staying in these areas, you're a target because of your lethal positioning. It's not the same as waiting in a small room to watch for passerby's. And map control isn't "waiting" for the power weapons. It's to make sure your opponents don't get them. There's a big difference there. The weapons you choose are also a big factor in determining the different methods of map control.

map control can only be accomplished with your other skills but hiding can be done with no skill.

"You're contradicting yourself. If someone's in a small space sitting there with a rocket launcher, you're not gonna kill him with a standard weapon. You have two choices at that point in order to kill him; get a coward weapon on par with what he's holding, or die. You can't say something like "You don't have to do what I said and walk around the map getting all buffed up for the camper" and then express that a "suitable weapon" would be needed to handle him. Self contradiction in the same paragraph does not help your case."

Of course you can kill him with a standard weapon. Throw 1 or 2 grenades to either kill the person or make him jump out, while you've kept your distance, and pop him in the head with one burst of the battlerifle (or 2 bursts depending on the accuracy of your throw, which is another instance of skill which helps determines your win or loss). But yes, you can always go in with a power weapon, but even so, your opponent still has a better chance to kill you because he has the element of surprise on his side. So therefore it's smarter to NOT use a power weapon because not only will you have a good chance of dying (depending on your other skills such as reflex, aim, and timing), but you may also waste ammunition if there was no actual camper resulting in you just being too cautious.

With this post I am agreeing that I have contradicted myself. It happens when you get lost in thought :D


"Difference being that in BF2 you can miss with the shotgun, whereas in H2 and above it's practically auto-kill. If that AK47-wielding player is better than you in your example situation, you'll die."


You can miss with the shotgun in Halo 2+ as well. It's very easy to miss, too. Also I noticed the shotgun range in BF2 is HUGE compared to the Halo series. In fact, in my opinion, I think it's easier to aim and hit with a shotgun in BF2 than it is in Halo.

[Edited on 07.10.2011 11:36 AM PDT]

  • 07.10.2011 11:19 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Legendary Member

Halo 1&2 PC forum's resident OC ReMixer. Like rockified and metalized video game music? Subscribe to my YouTube channel.

Yeah. That's right. I don't have a 50 in H3. I never got Onyx in Reach. If a game sucks too much, I won't even bother trying for such trivial "accolades". Besides, I've done way more things that take far more skill and talent than anything that can be done in a video game.

Honestly, at this point, I think Syx might be on to something. Maybe I really should be doing better things with my time than arguing with someone that knows next to nothing on the subject. But one part of your post did catch my eye.

Posted by: Ben2974
"stupidly overpowered weapon"? No they took all of that out in the next Halos when they realized Halo 1's pistol.

A rocket launcher that homes in on vehicle and vector corrects to players. A sword with a 25-foot lunge leading up to an instant kill. A sniper rifle that can register a headshot even if you missed by over a yard. A single-handed shotgun that allows you to pull off the equivalent of a BXR. A hammer that can instantly kill more than one opponent with a single trigger pull. A weapon combo that can kill an enemy faster than a 3sk without even having to aim. And you're going to sit there and tell me that they took out all the ridiculously overpowered weapons after Halo 1? Dear God, you're stupid. I can't even wrap my head around how retarded you'd have to be to make that claim. And yeah, not a very PC word, but accurate. Your IQ would literally have to be under 80 to say something like that.

Go pretend to be good at FPS some more, Ben. I'm done arguing with idiots.

  • 07.10.2011 12:45 PM PDT