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This topic has moved here: Subject: I declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. Don't agree? Get over it.
  • Subject: I declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. Don't agree? Get over it.
Subject: I declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. Don't agree? Get over it.

*reminisces when the Bungie/Halo community wasn't made up of CoD kids*
*sighs*
*activates time-machine and sets the clock back to Nov. 9, 2004*
glory days here I come..
*vanishes*

Kat mentions MAC guns towards the end of the sword base mission.
All the marines on the corvette were killed while Jorge was being ambushed.

  • 06.23.2011 8:54 AM PDT

Love your friends, Die laughing.

Sorry.

Games Canon > Any other Canon.

  • 06.23.2011 9:17 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: abelsinh
Sorry.

Games Canon > Any other Canon.


not true what soever seeing how they games have to have things implemented so people will by them, catering, gameplay elements, etc.

  • 06.23.2011 9:20 AM PDT

You barely see any ODPs/SMACs in Halo 2, yet we know that Earth has over 300 of them. Do you have any idea how vastly huge and enormous space is? The ODPs and SMACs are not that big in comparison to a planet and would not really show up unless you were around the same area as them. As I pointed out with Halo 2, you only see two, maybe three, SMAC platforms, all the rest are out of sight because they're too small to show up on the back drop of space. And there were only 20 SMACs at Reach, not hundred as you seem to think.

Did you lose your brain or something? There is absolutely no way in hell those marines would stand a chance at surviving the whole of the operation to take out the Long Night of Solace. Try playing the game on Legendary or Heroic (which are supposedly the most canon accurate version of gameplay) and then tell me if you get even one of your marines to survive. It's nearly impossible and if any of them survive it's simply pure dumb luck. Whether they survive in gameplay or not though is irrelevant as in canon none of them survived, and their chances of survival would be minimal, they're not Spartans.

Last I checked Six didn't visit every single corner and military base on the planet. The portrayal of the defenses is limited to what Six and Noble Team encountered on their deployments during the battle. Using your logic, then Earth must be a poor colony class world like Harvest too, we only see three frigates in Halo 3 and it only has one base that is built from 20th century level tech. Your ignorance astounds me, you are little more than a troll in your levels of thinking!

Um, excuse me, last I checked nobody except Bungie and 343i can see the Halo Story Bible (you know, the set of four three ring binders that contains all the information ever thought up for Halo's story and serves as the basis for all the information in the games, books, comics, and every other piece of Halo media). You have no idea what it contains or how things link together, so your claim that "nothing fits" is completely baseless and you have nothing to back it up.

OH and guess what, whatever the holder of the IP puts out is the official canon unless otherwise stated by them. Oh and further guess what...the story information revealed in the games always takes precedence over every other piece of Halo media.

But what you can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.

HAHAHAHA XD Oh that's rich, don't make me laugh, OP. TFoR is a good story, but it was certainly not more epic than the game, both are epic in their own ways, but TFoR's account of the battle is definitely! Not! More! Epic!
And it makes more sense than the game's account? *snicker* I'm sorry, but Reach, Humanity's strongest world next to Earth falling in a grand total of TWO hours is just plain laughable for reasons both DaeFaron and RKOSnake listed. Given what TFoR itself told about the UNSC defenses at Reach and everything else, the battle for Reach would have lasted a great deal longer than two hours. Taking two weeks to fall to the Covenant makes infinitely more sense!

Oh and one more thing, if you don't like the direction Bungie chose to take the story in, that's fine, nothing wrong with not liking it, you can't claim what is or is not canon however, that is not within the fanbase's rights or power. If you don't like what I said, then you have but one choice and that is to "Suck it up, Manipular!" Cookies if anyone gets the refference ;)

I'm sorry, I let myself get a little out of control (maybe I should stay off the forums 'til that monthly time is over >_>) I shall do my best to keep myself more in check next time.

[Edited on 06.23.2011 10:34 AM PDT]

  • 06.23.2011 9:59 AM PDT
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Sighs.

It is clear you don't like the narrative of Halo: Reach. So, I'm gonna be a nice guy and give you some advice. You might find these words familiar.

Get over it.

  • 06.23.2011 10:13 AM PDT

OrderedComa I love you.

  • 06.23.2011 10:21 AM PDT

~Thomsn0w


Posted by: wu haoxuan
I was wondering who actually decides what is canon.

I thought it might be Bungie, but now I know it's JesseJH.

Thanks for clearing that up.

  • 06.23.2011 10:23 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Fabled Legendary Member

Sadly it is canon, though I wish that it wasn't.

  • 06.23.2011 10:26 AM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

Oh course, I agree with OP. As seeing Reach campaign, personally I think tFoR is much better. So I'm not going accept Reach as canon since it's broken canon. I won't bother to explain why because I already talked about that in other thread on unexplainable canons by privet caboose.




[Edited on 06.23.2011 10:39 AM PDT]

  • 06.23.2011 10:27 AM PDT

Posted by: raindoc
i declare this thread is now about chili.

discuss.


I love Hot-Dogs with chili.

They so yummy.

  • 06.23.2011 10:31 AM PDT


Posted by: USArmyRanger7RB
OrderedComa I love you.


I concur

  • 06.23.2011 10:34 AM PDT


Posted by: USArmyRanger7RB
OrderedComa I love you.


Haha thanks XD It would seem my reputation is rapidly rising in this forum :P

  • 06.23.2011 10:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: SEAL Sniper 9
I agree with the OP.

  • 06.23.2011 10:36 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Bobvob
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Clearly, your opinion is the deciding factor in this debate.

Yes. I can argue with you.

  • 06.23.2011 10:37 AM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

OrderedComa

And it makes more sense than the game's account? *snicker* I'm sorry, but Reach, Humanity's strongest world next to Earth falling in a grand total of TWO hours is just plain laughable for reasons both DaeFaron and RKOSnake listed. Given what TFoR itself told about the UNSC defenses at Reach and everything else, the battle for Reach would have lasted a great deal longer than two hours. Taking two weeks to fall to the Covenant makes infinitely more sense!


Clearly, you don't understand at all. Of course, it makes perfect sense! You surely know that Covenant HAD SUPERIOR technology to the UNSC. DO you not realize that Plasma melts through the Titanium-A Battle-Plate like butter?! Or, most of UNSC ships CANNOT survive repeated hits from Covenant ships. (NOTE: Halo CE did not show extensive damages done to PoA because of game engine limitations). You horribly misunderstand about two hours...! Two hours is space battle! Most of UNSC fleet fought against the Covenant Fleet for TWO HOURS, guess what? Who lost? Yeah, UNSC! Then glassing/plasma bombardment started, effectively ending the battle of Reach in a day. However, small ground skirmishes (SPARTANs) lasted a week to two.

Despite strong defenses, Covenant sent overwhelming armies to overrun the Reach. Numbers does play role in the military world. Let's imagine a event: What if a small team of marines fights against the entire army, how I can say? numbers in 100,000? Who would lose? Yeah, a small team of marines would be wiped out because of overwhelming numbers threw against them. Same concept with Reach...

[Edited on 06.23.2011 10:40 AM PDT]

  • 06.23.2011 10:40 AM PDT

"On the seventh day, god did not rest, but rather he created 64 player multiplayer!"


Posted by: OrderedComa

But what you can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.

HAHAHAHA XD Oh that's rich, don't make me laugh, OP. TFoR is a good story, but it was certainly not more epic than the game, both are epic in their own ways, but TFoR's account of the battle is definitely! Not! More! Epic!


I'd have to disagree with you here. I didn't feel anything "epic" about the Halo: Reach story or gameplay. It was fun, but not "epic." Bungie seems to think that if you make a large scale level, that it makes it "epic" automatically, which is not the case... Doesn't really matter though, you do realize we're arguing with OPINIONS, right? To each their own...

Posted by: OrderedComa
And it makes more sense than the game's account? *snicker* I'm sorry, but Reach, Humanity's strongest world next to Earth falling in a grand total of TWO hours is just plain laughable for reasons both DaeFaron and RKOSnake listed. Given what TFoR itself told about the UNSC defenses at Reach and everything else, the battle for Reach would have lasted a great deal longer than two hours. Taking two weeks to fall to the Covenant makes infinitely more sense


Yet another opinion, but, actually, this one is incorrect.

See, TFoR depicts the Covenant as VASTLY more powerful, aggressive, and brutal, than humans. Not only that, but this depiction is the more REALISTIC approach... Remember, we're fighting an enemy that has adopted tech from the most advanced race in the universe. Read the Halo manual some time...what are the descriptions on the weapons like? "It's a weapon...not sure about how to replenish the ammo...not sure about how it works...not sure about..." etc etc... The Covenant have superior tech to humans. They've been traveling the galaxy for a much longer time, whereas humans are just getting started.

In the book, when a Marine gets hit with a single plasma shot, he's pretty much done for. It sears away the weak armor they wear and then eats away their flesh. THAT is realistic...BUT, of course in the game this wouldn't work...it wouldn't be very much fun to have marines that die in one shot... Even games like Call of Duty that take a more realistic approach to warfare won't let you die in one shot. You can take hit after hit in a game and keep on going.

So, when Reach falls in a matter of hours...YES, IT'S BELIEVABLE. The Covenant arrive with a huge fleet of superior ships, vs humans, who, in order to take out ONE Covie ship, must sacrifice 3 or 4 of their own...yeah, you're gonna get raped hard.

NOTHING about a 2-week battle campaign makes sense, when you're dealing with a superior enemy that ONLY cares to destroy your race. If they were there to beat humans down, take them as slaves, take their resources, etc...then yeah, okay, 2 weeks is fine, but they're there to exterminate them, not be friends.

If the U.S. didn't give a crap about Iraq, Afghanistan, oil or what anyone in the world thought of us, you think we'd really spend 10+ years fighting there? Hell no. All that's left is revenge for 9/11 - we would have bombed the place to hell and been done by the end of a the day.

  • 06.23.2011 10:51 AM PDT

Cave Johnson here, we're done!

PS: If you are reading this comment while imagining my voice, don't panic. That's just a side effect of the testing.


Posted by: JesseJH
But what you can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.


That's the thing, the book was a book. Most of it couldn't even fight inside the game campaign let alone the parts that could be used as moments to fight the covenant.

The game Halo: Reach was not a game just about the Planet Reach, and I wish people would stop thinking that it is.

It's about a spartan team and their victories and losses throughout the events of the covenant attack on reach. The plot of it has some things that are conflicting canon wise with the novel. But as far as I am concerned, Reach has more story plot lines than just what the novel describes, and the covenant being on reach before the main force arrives should not be discounted just because it wasn't described in the book.

  • 06.23.2011 10:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?



But what you can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.[/quote]

HAHAHAHA XD Oh that's rich, don't make me laugh, OP. TFoR is a good story, but it was certainly not more epic than the game, both are epic in their own ways, but TFoR's account of the battle is definitely! Not! More! Epic!
And it makes more sense than the game's account? *snicker* I'm sorry, but Reach, Humanity's strongest world next to Earth falling in a grand total of TWO hours is just plain laughable for reasons both DaeFaron and RKOSnake listed. Given what TFoR itself told about the UNSC defenses at Reach and everything else, the battle for Reach would have lasted a great deal longer than two hours. Taking two weeks to fall to the Covenant makes infinitely more sense!

I'm sorry, I let myself get a little out of control (maybe I should stay off the forums 'til that monthly time is over >_>) I shall do my best to keep myself more in check next time.



*epic sigh* i really hate these threads because i think people make them just for us to argue among ourselves.

*Sigh*

the UNSC lost the space engagement for the planet within two hours ground battles lasted another 2 weeks.This is completely justified when you take into account the point that was trying to be delivered (the covenant are stronger in space) and when you go with the logic of halo and stop being pro human.

I now hate you coma for "making" me goand pretty much read the book again. ;)

pg 283- Reach was stated to have 20 SMACs in orbit

pg-295 and i quotes " ETA 20 minutes at best speed sir!" the battle for reach could be over by time he got there"

which shows that despite the defense keyes acknowledge that reach wouldn't be able to stand up to a true covenant assault for long.

pg 295- reach was stated to have 100 ships with destroyers,frigates, 3 crusiers , 2 carriers and 3 refit stations in that area also. with another 52 ships on the way.
roughly putting the number of fighting forces around 157 ships.

pg-296 covenant are stated to have 314 ships. keyes then states that the UNSC only won when they outnumber the covenant 3:1 not the other way around and then brings up the SMAC guns.

the fight then starts.

pg-297 it inaccurately states that "dozens" of covenant ships when down after 4 mines went off, so we can't say what the number is down to.

The covenant sniper ships appears and takes out 5 UNSC ships

pg- 298 States that 50 UNSC ships were downed bringing the accurate loss of 55 UNSC ships.

34 covenant ships are now lost to the MACS. so we now for a fact that they have lost that many ships.

pg-299 states another 6 covie ships were lost bringing it to 40 confirmed kills.

however 5 SMACs had been lost. covie forces retreat and the UNSC total comes to 20 "estimated" ships remaining

pg -300 we learn that "hundreds" of covie dropships are heading to the poles. the "20" ships split both going for the opposite poles.

it is then stated that "thousands" of grunts,elites,and jackals were attacking a single armory

covies come back for round two

pg-301 " the covenant of course were after the orbital guns .... the real danger was on the ground if the troops took out the SMAC generators the SMACs would just be floating junk."

"she gestered at the incoming covenant fleet on the screen"-is bad, wait until you hear this. it gets worse""


Pretty much the covies retired long enough to regroup and came back in hopes of a few SMACs being offline

pg- 324 states generator 7 has been taken and others are bing taken also.

pg-325 "dozens" of covenant ships return to reach.
Both cortana and keyes express the fact that once the guns go down reach is done.

pg 330- covenant vessels swarmed reach in 5 ship crescent formations.

Thus the lose of reach is perfectly acceptable and nothing is wrong with it. you and other just want it to be longer than 2 hours but the UNSC fought against superior numbers and technology and lost. Both cortana and keyes expressed atleast twice that reach didn't have a chance, and the second time they stated once the SMACs fell defeat was confirmed.



so unless the new version updates things this is canon and you need to stop spreading the idea that the UNSC "would have lasted longer". not to mention halopdian needs to be updated because it never stated the covenant lost "1/3" of the fleet to the mines.


[Edited on 06.23.2011 11:11 AM PDT]

  • 06.23.2011 11:11 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Bungie could have made the main character a dinosaur and they still wouldn't see the difference.

Not quite, and I wish jackasses like you would lay off.
Posted by: grey101
not true what soever seeing how they games have to have things implemented so people will by them, catering, gameplay elements, etc.

Yes true whatsoever, as every single one of the novels says Based off the Xbox game Halo. The games don't say "Based off the best-selling Novel..."

  • 06.23.2011 11:46 AM PDT


Posted by: jack0fhearts
[quote]Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Bungie could have made the main character a dinosaur and they still wouldn't see the difference.

Not quite, and I wish jackasses like you would lay off.

Why should I? I merely state the truth figuratively.

The Bungie fanboys blindly defend major imperfections and irregularities of the game, regardless of direct evidence of inconsistency and plotholes.

You kids can bull-blam!- all you like, but Peter O'Brien wrote terrible story and lacked any writing skills at all.

  • 06.23.2011 12:06 PM PDT
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Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?


Posted by: jack0fhearts
Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Bungie could have made the main character a dinosaur and they still wouldn't see the difference.

Not quite, and I wish jackasses like you would lay off.
Posted by: grey101
not true what soever seeing how they games have to have things implemented so people will by them, catering, gameplay elements, etc.

Yes true whatsoever, as every single one of the novels says Based off the Xbox game Halo. The games don't say "Based off the best-selling Novel..."


TFoR was out 2 weeks before halo, and what game is GoO based off of?

  • 06.23.2011 12:07 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: A Puzzled Mind
Why should I? I merely state the truth figuratively.

The Bungie fanboys blindly defend major imperfections and irregularities of the game, regardless of direct evidence of inconsistency and plotholes.

There's a difference between major canon breeches and a few inconsistencies. Reach admittedly has inconsistencies. But they didn't f**k up the canon by saying that John-117 fought with Noble, or that they all had Mark VI, or that the UNSC had plasma weapons, or anything that severe. You guys are taking inconsistencies and blowing them out of proportion.

  • 06.23.2011 12:16 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: grey101
TFoR was out 2 weeks before halo, and what game is GoO based off of?

So? You could already buy the Green Lantern or Thor games before the movies came out; does that mean the movies are based off the games? It's called marketing.

And Ghosts of Onyx would still be based off the games, as the games were "established" first.

  • 06.23.2011 12:18 PM PDT

Our big green style, cannot be defeated!
-Sgt. A.J. Johnson - Halo 2 - Metropolis

Posted by: Dustin 6047
How about you get over it. The only thing I can agree with is why there weren't any ships taking out the Super Carrier. Other than that, you're a troll.
You're an idiot. Read the first book jackass, & don't say you did. Because if you did, you'd be agreeing. Ignorant fan boy.

  • 06.23.2011 12:19 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: xecnalxes117
You're an idiot. Read the first book jackass, & don't say you did. Because if you did, you'd be agreeing. Ignorant fan boy.

You mean the book that basically went "They trained, they trained, they trained really really hard, they became Spartans, some died, they fought some Insurrectionists; oh yeah, and Reach fell. The end!"

Yeah, great basis there.

  • 06.23.2011 12:21 PM PDT