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Subject: Russian Terror Attacks
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Lovely. Going for the children, how honorable.

  • 09.01.2004 6:12 AM PDT
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I'd say something wise and thoughtful, but we still aren't allowed to do any politic discussion.
:-(

Looks like it isn't going to end. What can they possibly do? When this happened in that theatre they gassed it, but that probably wouldn't work twice.

  • 09.01.2004 6:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Vella
When this happened in that theatre they gassed it, but that probably wouldn't work twice.

i don't know that i'd say it worked the first time. 129 of 700 civilians killed. that's a casualty rating of over 18%. i suppose the russian government saw it as acceptable, why else would they have used poisonous gas? the botched raid on the hospital resulted in 100 deaths. so, assuming the report was accurate, there are 120-400 hostages involved in this scenario. figuring the same casualty rating that's 22-74 dead children and teachers. factor in russian incompetence/disregard for civilian safety and i'd say the total would come closer to 50-150 dead. i hope i'm wrong though.

  • 09.01.2004 7:11 AM PDT
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I know but unfortunately, I'm a realist. If nothing is done the entire school will blow up, and everyone will be dead.

I'd agree the theatre wasn't a 'success', but there weren't many other ways to have handled it.

  • 09.01.2004 7:18 AM PDT
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I haven't heard of any demands the terrorists have.

Though, I have the very strong feeling it's not the demands they're after - it's the "terror." Even if their demands were met, their overall goal is to kill those people.

So I believe that risking attacking the terrorists might be acceptable if you can get away with 50-150 casualties, versus 400 casualties if they are successful.

  • 09.01.2004 7:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Vella
I know but unfortunately, I'm a realist. If nothing is done the entire school will blow up, and everyone will be dead.

I'd agree the theatre wasn't a 'success', but there weren't many other ways to have handled it.


I have to agry with you

  • 09.01.2004 7:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: Vella
I know but unfortunately, I'm a realist. If nothing is done the entire school will blow up, and everyone will be dead.

I'd agree the theatre wasn't a 'success', but there weren't many other ways to have handled it.


Yes, I agree.

  • 09.01.2004 7:20 AM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
I haven't heard of any demands the terrorists have.

Though, I have the very strong feeling it's not the demands they're after - it's the "terror." Even if their demands were met, their overall goal is to kill those people.

So I believe that risking attacking the terrorists might be acceptable if you can get away with 50-150 casualties, versus 400 casualties if they are successful.


i have to agry with you to.

  • 09.01.2004 7:20 AM PDT
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They could just pump the shool with tear gas, and then storm it.

  • 09.01.2004 7:21 AM PDT
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you know what i'd like to see happen once? the hostages overrun the terrorists.

  • 09.01.2004 7:23 AM PDT
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Posted by: Assassin B
They could just pump the shool with tear gas, and then storm it.


Won't work. They need to get the guy who has the detonation trigger first, then take out guys around him. If you pump in tear gas the guy'll detonate the gym.

  • 09.01.2004 7:23 AM PDT
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Well, if we assume it's the Chechens, they will present a list of completely unreachable demands. If any are met, it doesn't matter. They will still detonate the mines laid around the school.

What's more terrifying than an enemy who is unwilling to compromise anything?

It simply cannot be resolved though demands. The Chechens wouldn't let that happen, ever. They would not want to show any weakness to the Russian people.

They are simply an uncompromising enemy. Any compromise they would offer would be unreachable, and they would only put it out there to inflict guilt.

  • 09.01.2004 7:25 AM PDT
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Oh yeah, I forgot the bomb...
OK, they set up a sniper perimeter, wait for him to come it to view, and drop him. If he doesnt ever come into view, they could maybe send in a SWAT team through vent shafts or something. I dont know what they could do. Maybe they could pull one of these.

  • 09.01.2004 7:28 AM PDT
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Assassin, this isn't Rainbow Six. If those heavily armed Chechens hear a creak on the floor, they will blow the school to hell.

  • 09.01.2004 7:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: Assassin B
Oh yeah, I forgot the bomb...
OK, they set up a sniper perimeter, wait for him to come it to view, and drop him. If he doesnt ever come into view, they could maybe send in a SWAT team through vent shafts or something. I dont know what they could do. Maybe they could pull one of these.


It's tough. Something we've grown accustomed to in the media today is the idea that any terrorist situation is solvable by the cunning of police forces. In truth, there's possible situations in which there isn't a solution to allow everyone to come out alive.

The terrorists aren't foolish. I would bet they have multiple methods of detonation, including multiple people who could do it. Those people are probably hidden in buildings through the school, and they're all in communication.

It's very likely that this situation will not be resolved without many children dying.

  • 09.01.2004 7:33 AM PDT
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Vella, I understand that life isnt a game, I was just throwing out ideas. It isnt like I said to stick a plas to the guy and then melee all of his friends before they knew what was coming. Both of my ideas were completely possible and have worked before. My father is ex-SWAT, and he has used both to take down hostage takers. Sorry though.

  • 09.01.2004 7:35 AM PDT
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well, hopefully the inteligence reports the russians have is a bit more useful than this report. they could be in there with a pipe bomb and 2-3 mines, who knows. obviously they still have to act in a manner appropriate for a worst case scenario. especially since AK-47's are no joke either.

  • 09.01.2004 7:35 AM PDT
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Obbis is right, we feed of these ridiculous programmes and films that tell us that the 'good' guys always win, the bad guys get arrested and the evil guys get shot. Doesn't work like that.

Most of those children are as good as dead. A sad fact, but it is true. Samuel L Jackson or Colin Farrell arent going to be around to save the day.

  • 09.01.2004 7:42 AM PDT
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Posted by: Vella
I'd agree the theatre wasn't a 'success', but there weren't many other ways to have handled it.

i'd agree with your statement that "there weren't many other ways to have handled it" if that had taken place in the US or Europe or a number of other countries. but i've studied the russian language, literature, and politics. so i can't agree with that. men like Vladimir Putin are more concerned with putting down the uprising than safeguarding the lives of their people. they want quick, decisive action with civilian casualties taking a FAR back seat to overall mission success.

[Edited on 9/1/2004 8:48:17 AM]

  • 09.01.2004 7:53 AM PDT
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Posted by: BadKarma
Posted by: Vella
I'd agree the theatre wasn't a 'success', but there weren't many other ways to have handled it.

i'd agree with your statement that "there weren't many other ways to have handled it" if that had taken place in the US or Europe or a number of other coutries. but i've studied the russian language, literature, and politics. so i can't agree with that. men like Vladimir Putin are more concerned with putting down the uprising than safeguarding the lives of their people. they want quick, decisive action with civilian casualties taking a FAR back seat to overall mission success.


Which could be a strong policy. Ethically unsound, but since when have I been ethical?

  • 09.01.2004 7:56 AM PDT
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Of course. Putin thinks that if little remorse is shown to the Chechens, it will let them know that the Russians are serious and won't be swayed a few innocent lives, thereby discouraging further attacks on civilian targets.

t's one of those "Less attacks in the long run" things, and we have yet to see if it is a victory or miserable failure.

  • 09.01.2004 7:57 AM PDT
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Posted by: Vella
Of course. Putin thinks that if little remorse is shown to the Chechens, it will let them know that the Russians are serious and won't be swayed a few innocent lives, thereby discouraging further attacks on civilian targets.

t's one of those "Less attacks in the long run" things, and we have yet to see if it is a victory or miserable failure.


Yeah. Appearing uncompassionate to the Russian people's situation could also be a unfavorable to him.

  • 09.01.2004 7:59 AM PDT
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Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Which could be a strong policy. Ethically unsound, but since when have I been ethical?

i wonder if sitting in the gymnasium with those students and teachers right now would change your thinking?

  • 09.01.2004 8:01 AM PDT
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Posted by: BadKarma
Posted by: ObbiQuiet
Which could be a strong policy. Ethically unsound, but since when have I been ethical?

i wonder if sitting in the gymnasium with those students and teachers right now would change your thinking?


Of course it would. But, in the case that my life was being threatened I certainly wouldn't be thinking rationally.

[Edited on 9/1/2004 8:07:10 AM]

  • 09.01.2004 8:03 AM PDT
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I certainly wouldn't be thinking rationally.

Survival instinct. We as a race strive to survive, and any threat towards our lives are met with what we assume to be 'Irrational thinking'. That is our survival instinct kicking in, and we would do anything to survive.

  • 09.01.2004 8:11 AM PDT

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