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Subject: "Steaktacular" legality update/discussion thread

117

u want tips?.... SHUT THE HELL UP AND STOP BEING A CHEAP DIRTBAG! U SHOULD HAVE A LIVE ACCOUNT IF UR PLAYING HALO AND ON THESE FORUMS! BUNGIE KICKS ASS! STOP GRIPING!!!!!!!!!

  • 06.25.2011 10:46 AM PDT

I don't always ban people but when I do I laugh uncontrollably...that's if I was a Forum Ninja.

Truth is a matter of perception.

The Button

You're going to try to sue Bungie? Are you serious right now? Bungie has the best lawyers in the world, there is no possible way you could win. You're just a cheap kid wanting to piss people off,which you have succeeded at. Just stop being cheap and be happy Bungie is actually giving something away. They're not holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy Reach, a gold subscription, and a Xbox 360. Just shut up and be happy.

  • 06.25.2011 11:02 AM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

XBOX User Space profile

You keep going on how you need to pay for gold XBL. At no point do you ever have to pay for it, and it says in the rules you need to have a valid gold membership.

Also, you don't need to go out and buy an xbox. It is possible for you to borrow one. No Bungie is not forcing you to do anything. They are not holding a gun to your head telling you to do it.

Borrowing a game is just as simple as an xbox.

You must read these Official Rules before entering the Bungie Steaktacular Contest (the "Promotion"). All entrants agree to be bound by these Bungie vs The World Steaktacular Contest Official Rules.

All entrants is a very handy point here. If you have not entered you are not bound to any of these rules, even the no purchase necessary section.

And my last point. Unless you can prove that you had a significant chance of not only getting picked, but winning by more than 20 points, which, based on your games played, is not very likely, you will receive nothing because you would not have even if you could have been picked. Also, this contest is different than a sweepstakes because it adds a necessary skill, which makes it a contest of skill rather than a sweepstakes. This skill factor makes it not a lottery because it specifically says "Is there chance involved in the selection of the winner (i.e., drawing a ticket)?" There is only a chance involved in deciding who plays, but chance is not a factor in who wins. Only skill is involved in deciding that.

If you really wish to continue to pursue this, go ahead, but I'm telling you that it is not going to work.

  • 06.25.2011 11:20 AM PDT

Posted by: x Foman123 x
At any rate, you're conflating the two factors of "eligibility" and "consideration," which is what's leading to your confusion.



I contacted a lawyer familiar with Washington state law.

Here is what he had to say:

the answer is yes, it does. This is because you are essentially operating a game of skill whereby participants receive a thing of value in exchange for superior performance and those with inferior performance lose a thing of value. For your reference see http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/internet_gambling.pdf

I'm reviewing documents now concerning Washington State Law and it turns out I very well do have a case.

Please see the linked Internet Gambling document.

[Edited on 06.25.2011 11:55 AM PDT]

  • 06.25.2011 11:55 AM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Jin Kisaragi
Posted by: x Foman123 x
At any rate, you're conflating the two factors of "eligibility" and "consideration," which is what's leading to your confusion.



I contacted a lawyer familiar with Washington state law.

Here is what he had to say:

the answer is yes, it does. This is because you are essentially operating a game of skill whereby participants receive a thing of value in exchange for superior performance and those with inferior performance lose a thing of value. For your reference see http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/internet_gambling.pdf

I'm reviewing documents now concerning Washington State Law and it turns out I very well do have a case.

Please see the linked Internet Gambling document.


You see kids, this is why we can't have nice things.

If someone tries to sue Bungie for something like this we won't have community events again.

I really hope no one is retarded enough to waist Bungie's time with this.

  • 06.25.2011 11:56 AM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

XBOX User Space profile


Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

the answer is yes, it does. This is because you are essentially operating a game of skill whereby participants receive a thing of value in exchange for superior performance and those with inferior performance lose a thing of value. For your reference see http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/internet_gambling.pdf



What do those with inferior performance lose?

  • 06.25.2011 11:59 AM PDT


Posted by: spartakus14

Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

the answer is yes, it does. This is because you are essentially operating a game of skill whereby participants receive a thing of value in exchange for superior performance and those with inferior performance lose a thing of value. For your reference see http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/internet_gambling.pdf



What do those with inferior performance lose?


nothing of value, its steaks. the OP want's to -blam!- the entire Bungie community over steaks. anyone else think we should inform G4 over this? maybe see if the rest of the gaming world thinks this is insane?

  • 06.25.2011 12:03 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

XBOX User Space profile


Posted by: Mereel N7

Posted by: spartakus14

Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

the answer is yes, it does. This is because you are essentially operating a game of skill whereby participants receive a thing of value in exchange for superior performance and those with inferior performance lose a thing of value. For your reference see http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/internet_gambling.pdf



What do those with inferior performance lose?


nothing of value, its steaks. the OP want's to -blam!- the entire Bungie community over steaks. anyone else think we should inform G4 over this? maybe see if the rest of the gaming world thinks this is insane?


Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.

  • 06.25.2011 12:05 PM PDT


Posted by: spartakus14
Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.


These are all arguments that will be made in time in the courtroom, should this matter go so far. All i'm requesting is Bungie have a free, alternate method of entry for people that do not want to pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that request.

If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting. Microsoft and the Federal Trade Commission have already been notified, my complaint is filed, and my next step is to start my case now that the complaint is filed.

Very shortly, I will be unable "to discuss pending legal matters", so ask your questions now while you can.

  • 06.25.2011 12:09 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

Posted by: spartakus14
Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.


These are all arguments that will be made in time in the courtroom, should this matter go so far. All i'm requesting is Bungie have a free, alternate method of entry for people that do not want to pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that request.

If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting. Microsoft and the Federal Trade Commission have already been notified, my complaint is filed, and my next step is to start my case now that the complaint is filed.

Very shortly, I will be unable "to discuss pending legal matters", so ask your questions now while you can.

There's also nothing illegal about restricting sweepstakes eligibility.

  • 06.25.2011 12:11 PM PDT

Official Town Drunk of Sandwichia. Nation of the Flood.
MBT - Impossible Just Happened
* How is it that "Fat Chance" and "Slim Chance" mean the same thing?
* If you choke a Smurf, what color will it turn?

XBOX User Space profile

I did and a question. You seem to have ignored it. It makes me doubt your ability to read, and therefore, your age.

But I'll ask again.

What is it that someone loses?

and

How old are you?

  • 06.25.2011 12:13 PM PDT

Online ID: GriffGraff15


Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

Posted by: Luke35120
Do you realize that you can create a free 1 month on someone else's Xbox while owning the email that used to create it right?


An Xbox 360, Halo Reach, and Xbox Live Gold are all paid content. That's three tiers of payment required to be eligible to win. Even if one of the tiers (Xbox live gold account) has some shady levels of entry (i.e, a free trial), that still leaves two entirely different tiers of payment. It's a very shady line, but I see your valid argument and it's a point worth discussing as I have.

There's no payment needed to enter into the contest. Meaning that you don't have to pay an entrance fee to the Bungie vs World playlist.

Your argument is like saying that all contests require payment because you have to pay to get food which keeps you alive in order to enter or win a contest.

[Edited on 06.25.2011 12:17 PM PDT]

  • 06.25.2011 12:16 PM PDT

I am invisible, understand, simply because people refuse to see me.
--Ralph Ellison

Posted by: Jin Kisaragi
If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting.


I think it's the other way around. Bungie is wishing you good luck since you're clearly wasting your time.

This has already gone through Bungie's legal team and Microsoft's legal team and you think that you have found something illegal? That's laughable to say the least.

  • 06.25.2011 12:20 PM PDT

Posted by: Darth1Snyder
Everytime someone sacks my groceries, I think of Loaf.

Hahahahahaha I can't believe you actually think a judge would even consider this. Do you realize how fast this case will be thrown out of court? I'm wiling to bet you'll be counter sued for wasting their time.

And if your argument is that it's gambling, what are you gambling? What could you possibly lose?

Not to mention that Microsofts legal team and Bungies legal team both reviewed the rules and regulation. And you think your piss poor pathetic lawyer thinks you have a case. HILARIOUS!

And did you forget to mention to your lawyer that you agreed to XBL terms and conditions? Yes, I see that you gave a gamertag. And that you've played online which means you DID agree which means there is NO CASE, which means YOU LOSE.

[Edited on 06.25.2011 12:26 PM PDT]

  • 06.25.2011 12:25 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

Posted by: spartakus14
Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.


These are all arguments that will be made in time in the courtroom, should this matter go so far. All i'm requesting is Bungie have a free, alternate method of entry for people that do not want to pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that request.

If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting. Microsoft and the Federal Trade Commission have already been notified, my complaint is filed, and my next step is to start my case now that the complaint is filed.

Very shortly, I will be unable "to discuss pending legal matters", so ask your questions now while you can.


Dude, I hate people like you, how dare you take Legal action against Bungie.

I hope Bungie sues you for extreme waist of time and stupidity.

You are wasting your time and 1000000x more importantly Bungie's time.

You have no reason to sue other than to be a -blam-head for a stupid loop-hole.

Drop your lawsuit before halo fans everyone get mad and blame you.

[Edited on 06.25.2011 12:30 PM PDT]

  • 06.25.2011 12:27 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias

OP, you gotta be kidding me.

Clearly you don't know extent of laws, and Bungie's steak contest has been reviewed by team of lawyers countless times and it is perfectly legal.

You are more likely to lose the case, if you are lucky enough, you'll just owe them thousands of dollars which you will regret it for rest of your life.

Also, if you're planning to implement a injunction at steak contest sponsored by Bungie, then its community will look you as enemy to Bungie and you will lose any remaining respect, etc for good.

And No Purchase Necessary means that you don't have to buy it. You can borrow a friend's disc or play at his house, not hard to do. Use your common sense for this.



[Edited on 06.25.2011 12:29 PM PDT]

  • 06.25.2011 12:28 PM PDT

This guy is citing the Laws of Internet Gambling as his reasoning but this doesn't fall under gambling at all because he is not putting anything of tangible value up for stakes. He is looking at a completely different set of rules than what is required. And Foman is right at the beginning of the thread anyway.

And since comparing your play time and skill level have you possible been banned before? Would throw a nice twist to things eh?

  • 06.25.2011 12:29 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: raganok99
OP, you gotta be kidding me.

Clearly you don't know extent of laws, and Bungie's steak contest has been reviewed by team of lawyers countless times and it is perfectly legal.

You are more likely to lose the case, if you are lucky enough, you'll just owe them thousands of dollars which you will regret for rest of your life.

Also, if you're planning to implement a injunction at steak contest sponsored by Bungie, then its community will look you as enemy to Bungie and you will lose any remaining respect, etc for good.

And No Purchase Necessary means that you don't have to buy it. You can borrow a friend's disc or play at his house, not hard to do. Use your common sense for this.



Dude, he is an enemy now for even suggesting to sue Bungie for a contest FOR US.

OP, you should just leave here, forever.

  • 06.25.2011 12:29 PM PDT


Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

Posted by: spartakus14
Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.


These are all arguments that will be made in time in the courtroom, should this matter go so far. All i'm requesting is Bungie have a free, alternate method of entry for people that do not want to pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that request.

If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting. Microsoft and the Federal Trade Commission have already been notified, my complaint is filed, and my next step is to start my case now that the complaint is filed.

Very shortly, I will be unable "to discuss pending legal matters", so ask your questions now while you can.


Dude, I hate people like you, how dare you take Legal action against Bungie.

I hope Bungie sues you for extreme waist of time and stupidity.

You are wasting your time and 1000000x more importantly Bungie's time.

You have no reason to sue other than to be a -blam-head for a stupid loop-hole.

Drop your lawsuit before every halo fans everyone get mad and blame you.


if G4 hears then the whole internet will hate him.

fact is it is a waste of time since he agreed to the Xbox Live Terms of Use and agreement, he may as well be our enemy now.

  • 06.25.2011 12:30 PM PDT

XBL: l Sonic l
PSN: Sonic_343

Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

Posted by: spartakus14
Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.


These are all arguments that will be made in time in the courtroom, should this matter go so far. All i'm requesting is Bungie have a free, alternate method of entry for people that do not want to pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that request.

If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting. Microsoft and the Federal Trade Commission have already been notified, my complaint is filed, and my next step is to start my case now that the complaint is filed.

Very shortly, I will be unable "to discuss pending legal matters", so ask your questions now while you can.

I hope you realize that you're suing over a peace of dead cow.

  • 06.25.2011 12:30 PM PDT

Omg. I just can't wait for MS to get back to you and tell you that you're full of -blam!-.

  • 06.25.2011 12:31 PM PDT

Why do people in ship mutinies always ask for "better treatment"? I'd ask for a pinball machine, because with all that rocking back and forth, you'd get a lot of free games.

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words - "mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.

Your argument is that participants are required to own an Xbox 360, a copy of Halo: Reach, and an XBL Gold membership? Is that all?

  • 06.25.2011 12:31 PM PDT

In a time long past, the armies of the dark came again to the lands of men. Their leaders became known as the fallen lords, and their terrible sorcery was without equal in the west.
In 30 years they reduced the civilized nations into carrion and ash. Until the free city of Madrigal alone defined them. An army gathered there, and a desperate battle was joined against the fallen
Heros were born in the fire and bloodshed of the wars which followed and their names and deeds will never be forgotten


Posted by: Mereel N7

Posted by: spartain ken 15

Posted by: Jin Kisaragi

Posted by: spartakus14
Exactly, if you lose the game vs Bungie, or don't gain the necessary win by 20 points, you don't actually lose anything because you never had the steak in the first place. You can't lose what you never had.


These are all arguments that will be made in time in the courtroom, should this matter go so far. All i'm requesting is Bungie have a free, alternate method of entry for people that do not want to pay. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing wrong with that request.

If they do not, well, I wish them good luck in the legal matters awaiting. Microsoft and the Federal Trade Commission have already been notified, my complaint is filed, and my next step is to start my case now that the complaint is filed.

Very shortly, I will be unable "to discuss pending legal matters", so ask your questions now while you can.


Dude, I hate people like you, how dare you take Legal action against Bungie.

I hope Bungie sues you for extreme waist of time and stupidity.

You are wasting your time and 1000000x more importantly Bungie's time.

You have no reason to sue other than to be a -blam-head for a stupid loop-hole.

Drop your lawsuit before every halo fans everyone get mad and blame you.


if G4 hears then the whole internet will hate him.

fact is it is a waste of time since he agreed to the Xbox Live Terms of Use and agreement, he may as well be our enemy now.


Don't worry, if OP does anything we will tell G4 about it.

  • 06.25.2011 12:34 PM PDT

You know that you are not going to win this case and that you will just waste money?
Also Bungie doesn't force you to participate in the contest so you don't have to buy anything if you don't want to.
They made this contest for people who own the game, not for people who browse this website.

  • 06.25.2011 12:34 PM PDT

XBL: l Sonic l
PSN: Sonic_343

Posted by: Top_Gun_2021
Your argument is that participants are required to own an Xbox 360, a copy of Halo: Reach, and an XBL Gold membership? Is that all?

Common sense says that everyone should know that these things are required.

You need a Gold subscription to play Reach online, you need Reach to play the playlist, and you need an Xbox 360 to play Reach.

This is not a difficult concept.

  • 06.25.2011 12:34 PM PDT

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