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This topic has moved here: Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
  • Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x

The invasion of Reach was severely downplayed. I saw no Mac Guns in orbit above Reach, and barely any UNSC ships. When Jorge sacrificed himself (Didn't make sense to when there were marines.) to take down a Covenant Supercarrier, (Which by the way a ship that size would not last long above Reach because of all the ships and SMACS that SHOULD be present.) There were like 5 more Covenant ships that came out of slipspace. I'm sorry but... The battle of Anchor 9 was so quiet. There should have been hundrens of different Covenant vessels, and there were not.

I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the "Heroic" difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.
Even if the SMACS were higher in orbit than the Supercarrier, they could probably turn around and face the other way, and fire down on it. Even so, there were hundreds of UNSC vessels guarding the "doorstep" to Earth. By the way, a ship that size definitely would not last long because it would nt easil be able to avoid a MAC gun. They go a fraction the speed of light. (0.4c) I'm pretty sure.

Reach is the Hub of the UNSC. And the fact that it was poorly defended in the game by a few frigates, a handful of Sabres, and one Halcyon, (WHICH SHOULD NOT BE ON THE GROUND.) was pathetic. Reach is not Harvest. Reach should have been heavily defended by hundreds of UNSC ships of all different classes, and SUPER MACS.

Nothing in this game fits. I hope you have a logical argument as to why this game SHOULD be canon. But if it's something like, "Oh, Bungie made the game, so it is canon." Then you are just one of those people that Bungie would rely on to keep making half-assed games. Please present something logical that I can think about.

You can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.


[Edited on 06.26.2011 8:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 12:57 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?
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Games > Books

Whether you like it or not Halo Reach is canon and it overrides anything Eric Nylund wrote in TFoR.

  • 06.26.2011 1:03 PM PDT

How did I know the first comment was going to be something like that?

  • 06.26.2011 1:05 PM PDT

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind

About the mac cannons..

Planets are big. Do you know what circumference is? How far do you think you can see?

  • 06.26.2011 1:09 PM PDT
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I understand nothing because my life is a conspiracy.


Posted by: JesseJH
How did I know the first comment was going to be something like that?


'Cause it's true.

I heard they were re-writing the book to go along with a game. Reach didn't ruin the plot, it just created some easy holes to patch up.

  • 06.26.2011 1:09 PM PDT
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Posted by: PETEYENG
Games > Books

Whether you like it or not Halo Reach is canon and it overrides anything Eric Nylund wrote in TFoR.


A idiotic statement made by a idiot.

Game canon > Books canon is stupid as hell, in my opinion it should be considered as equal, not superior to others.

Like I said, I refuse to see that Reach as canon because of many reasons. Although, I only play multiplayer, firefight and custom games for entertainment.

So, I will agree with OP.

lime013


I heard they were re-writing the book to go along with a game. Reach didn't ruin the plot, it just created some easy holes to patch up.


I doubt that they'll change a novel to follow the Halo: Reach version, most likely they will do is fix some typo errors and add some new content. It's same idea with 2010 version where they was supposed to follow the Halo: Reach but it did not change anything. I have it in my hands (2010) version of tFoR and I don't see anything based on Halo: Reach.

So, I have my doubts.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 1:12 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 1:09 PM PDT
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Just to clairify, your argument is that you can't see the Covenant's entire armada, nor the UNSC home fleet in one condensed area? During a global, weeks long campaign? If the skirmish for Anchor nine was a decisive factor, this argument would make sense. However, it was not. The Covenant cleary didn't suspect anything of the forces stationed at anchor nine, else they wouldn't have been slipspace bombed so easily. As such, what you saw cannot possibly represent their entire scouting force.

Oh, and I must remind you, this is a battle for a planet, fought over the course of a few weeks. As such, both armies respective forces are spread around the surface of the planet, and the vast gulf of space surrouding it. Thus, even in the heat of a climactic battle, you can't possibly expect to see both factions' entire fleets all at once. In Halo Reach, you were treated to several small scale skirmishes, not the entire damn battle, which isn't nearly enough to make estimates based around. There could have been hundreds of vessels all in separate engagements. As such, you can't expect to see the entire fleet, only parts of it.

In Halo 3, the size of the defense grid around Earth is cleary established. However, you only see one percent of it. Guess why? They're spread across the planet, just like Reach's fleet.

You may have noted that I'm explaining this like I'm explaining something to a total moron. I'm using simple words, and repeating myself. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of insulting your intelligence. This is just to ensure that there's no miscommunication whatsoever. I hope this doesn't get messy.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 1:15 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 1:11 PM PDT

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

You can't just erase bits you don't like and ignore them!

  • 06.26.2011 1:11 PM PDT

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind

A idiotic statement made by a idiot.

I refuse to see that Reach as canon

I know [Reach] is canon


What?

  • 06.26.2011 1:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Im SteelAssassn
A idiotic statement made by a idiot.

I refuse to see that Reach as canon

I know [Reach] is canon


What?


I realized my error in my paragraph, so I removed that part and edited it.

  • 06.26.2011 1:14 PM PDT

If the fleet was spread around the planet, why didn't I see any ships at all besides a corvette and a supercarrier?

  • 06.26.2011 1:15 PM PDT

"Hero's Get Remembered, But Legends Never Die. Follow Your Heart, And You Can Never Go Wrong."

___________(""""II"""" ; ;II""""")_TT______
I ---------____.`=====.-. :________\___|================[oo]
I_III___/___/_/~"""I_I_I_I'''

Funny how a lot of people think that Reach is Canon...

...Might I just remind those people that the books came first...

  • 06.26.2011 1:15 PM PDT

In Fall of Reach, Reach has a fleet of 100 ships to protect her, in Halo: Reach, Reach is guarded by several. You mad?

  • 06.26.2011 1:16 PM PDT

He's right. The books did come first. WAY first.

  • 06.26.2011 1:17 PM PDT

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind

Posted by: JesseJH
If the fleet was spread around the planet, why didn't I see any ships at all besides a corvette and a supercarrier?


Different question, same answer:
Planets are big. Do you know what circumference is? How far do you think you can see?

  • 06.26.2011 1:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: JesseJH
If the fleet was spread around the planet, why didn't I see any ships at all besides a corvette and a supercarrier?
Because they were spread around the planet. You see, when something is spread around, it is less condensed. As it is less condensed, you can't expect see all of it in one tiny little area. Your Sabre did not explore the entire gulf of space surrounding planet. You explored a little tiny area.

Once again, I'm typing like this to avoid any confusion whatsoever.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 1:21 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 1:19 PM PDT

I know that the fleets were not spread so thin around the planet that I could not see any ships at all. That would be like every ship had a one-on-one battle with another ship. No.

Some ships worked together. AT the very least I would be able to see small clusters of ships, and at the very least explosions of ships in the background.

  • 06.26.2011 1:21 PM PDT

Didact's Reprisal -
Now is the time of our unworlding
One final effort is all that remains
And I am not afraid
We shall fulfill our promise
We fight for the grace of the Mantle
And this time none of you will be left behind


Posted by: JesseJH
I know that the fleets were not spread so thin around the planet that I could not see any ships at all. That would be like every ship had a one-on-one battle with another ship. No.

Some ships worked together. AT the very least I would be able to see small clusters of ships, and at the very least explosions of ships in the background.


Ooh, and don't forget about my point on MAC cannons!

  • 06.26.2011 1:24 PM PDT
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Posted by: JesseJH
He's right. The books did come first. WAY first.


Technically, yes. Halo: The Fall of Reach Novel was released in two weeks before Halo: Combat Evolved was released. It arises some questioning on the canon policy, maybe bungie was bit sloppy with that?

And there's several things in Halo: Reach are canon-breaking such as PoA being on ground which it is impossible by way. Not with that weight and mass! You may argue that PoA "flied" in atmosphere of Installion 04, but PoA actually crashed into the Installion 04. Gravity plays a key role of maintaining any ship in atmosphere, such as light, small like frigate with some kind of anti-gravity technology can perform in the atmosphere at ease. Large ships such as Halycon-class Cruiser or larger, cannot maintain in the atmosphere because of gravity would bring it down faster than they even realize. In First Strike (I think) Keyes said that PoA isn't rated for atmosphere.

And, Supercarrier debate... don't get me started but it is impossible to entirely cloak everything in the supercarrier. Their thermal signature would flare on the UNSC's warning stations like massive reddish-orange blob and alert a defensive fleet (150 warships) with ODPs (they can move with thrusters attached) to engage the supercarrier immediately.

List would go on.

  • 06.26.2011 1:27 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: JesseJH
He's right. The books did come first. WAY first.


Technically, yes. Halo: The Fall of Reach Novel was released in two weeks before Halo: Combat Evolved was released. It arises some questioning on the canon policy, maybe bungie was bit sloppy with that?

And there's several things in Halo: Reach are canon-breaking such as PoA being on ground which it is impossible by way. Not with that weight and mass! You may argue that PoA "flied" in atmosphere of Installion 04, but PoA actually crashed into the Installion 04. Gravity plays a key role of maintaining any ship in atmosphere, such as light, small like frigate with some kind of anti-gravity technology can perform in the atmosphere at ease. Large ships such as Halycon-class Cruiser or larger, cannot maintain in the atmosphere because of gravity would bring it down faster than they even realize. In First Strike (I think) Keyes said that PoA isn't rated for atmosphere.

And, Supercarrier debate... don't get me started but it is impossible to entirely cloak everything in the supercarrier. Their thermal signature would flare on the UNSC's warning stations like massive reddish-orange blob and alert a defensive fleet (150 warships) with ODPs (they can move with thrusters attached) to engage the supercarrier immediately.

List would go on.


Yes. Just because something is cloaked doesn't mean you can't see it. EX: In Halo you can still see people on radar when they are cloaked.

The spire was cloaking the supercarrier was it not? If it was... How did the supercarrier get to reach in the first place? Obviously it couldn't have been cloaked as soon as it came out of slipspace. Even if the spire was built befoehand. There would be a HUGE slipspace signature.

Although the PoA obviously used disposable thrusters to get off Reach at the end of the game, how did it land there in the first place? A ship that size would not be able to fly in the atmosphere. Even if it could it would use a massive amount of fuel just to get lift. Some people may argue that the PoA was constructed on Reach and left there, but that makes absolutely no sense.

  • 06.26.2011 1:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: JesseJH
I know that the fleets were not spread so thin around the planet that I could not see any ships at all. That would be like every ship had a one-on-one battle with another ship. No.

Some ships worked together. AT the very least I would be able to see small clusters of ships, and at the very least explosions of ships in the background.

If you were waiting for a quicker reply, I apologize. I was out for a quick snack. As I was eating the skin off of some jerk chicken however, I realized that the "Battle" for Reach is innacurately termed. It should be called the "Campaign" of Reach. In other words, it is a series of several interconnected skirmishes and battles, fought over a large territory, and over a large timescale. See, when it's called a battle, you start to think of a single clash between a massive array of forces, as opposed to what it clearly is. This should help clear things up.

I know that groups of ships fought groups of ships. That being said, even if there were, say, 15 ship-to-ship engagements at once (massive exaggeration) between fairly large fleets, they still would be too far spread out within the gulf of space for you to see. They would likely be thousands of kilometers away, if not more (assuming that they're more or less evenly spread out). Not to mention, some would be at the surface, some would be on the other side of the planet. Okay, well maybe they'd look like lighters going off in the distance, but even if they were included, they would be insignicant compared to the backdrop of heavenly bodies. Kind of like a hand grenade going off in a nuclear war. Clearly you understand the argument, but you do not understand just how vast space is. Space is big. Explosions aren't so big.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 1:46 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 1:43 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

The Fall of Reach in the novel was stupid. Reach fell in two hours.

Although I dont agree with everything in Halo Reach, I do like it better the way Reach fell. In a whole month instead of two hours.

  • 06.26.2011 1:44 PM PDT

in your first thread you had more than enough input as to how Reach was canon. /thread



[Edited on 06.26.2011 1:54 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 1:44 PM PDT

I understand the vastness of space... I figured at the beginning of Long Night of Solace when all the banshees and seraphs were flying around and there were wraiths and many covenant soldiers, there was more than just ONE Covenant corvette up in the heavens. You figured a ship that small would have some escorts. When I launched out of the atmosphere in my Sabre, I was kind of disappointed because I expected a big UNSC-Covenant ship-to-ship battle up there. By big, I mean at least a 2v2 kind of thing.

  • 06.26.2011 1:47 PM PDT


Posted by: HipiO7
The Fall of Reach in the novel was stupid. Reach fell in two hours.

Although I dont agree with everything in Halo Reach, I do like it better the way Reach fell. In a whole month instead of two hours.


The Covenant seems to be a merciless Empire. And with the amount of ships they brought with them in the book, I'm not surprised if Reach fell in two hours in the book. Nonetheless, the story was well told.

  • 06.26.2011 1:49 PM PDT