- OrderedComa
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Posted by: JFMK2
Just to clairify, your argument is that you can't see the Covenant's entire armada, nor the UNSC home fleet in one condensed area? During a global, weeks long campaign? If the skirmish for Anchor nine was a decisive factor, this argument would make sense. However, it was not. The Covenant cleary didn't suspect anything of the forces stationed at anchor nine, else they wouldn't have been slipspace bombed so easily. As such, what you saw cannot possibly represent their entire scouting force.
Oh, and I must remind you, this is a battle for a planet, fought over the course of a few weeks. As such, both armies respective forces are spread around the surface of the planet, and the vast gulf of space surrouding it. Thus, even in the heat of a climactic battle, you can't possibly expect to see both factions' entire fleets all at once. In Halo Reach, you were treated to several small scale skirmishes, not the entire damn battle, which isn't nearly enough to make estimates based around. There could have been hundreds of vessels all in separate engagements. As such, you can't expect to see the entire fleet, only parts of it.
In Halo 3, the size of the defense grid around Earth is cleary established. However, you only see one percent of it. Guess why? They're spread across the planet, just like Reach's fleet.
You may have noted that I'm explaining this like I'm explaining something to a total moron. I'm using simple words, and repeating myself. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of insulting your intelligence. This is just to ensure that there's no miscommunication whatsoever. I hope this doesn't get messy.
*claps slowly and rise to stand* You sir are quite brilliant, very excellent points and excellent use of commons sense *applauds again*
Posted by: JesseJH
The invasion of Reach was severely downplayed. I saw no Mac Guns in orbit above Reach, and barely any UNSC ships. When Jorge sacrificed himself (Didn't make sense to when there were marines.) to take down a Covenant Supercarrier, (Which by the way a ship that size would not last long above Reach because of all the ships and SMACS that SHOULD be present.) There were like 5 more Covenant ships that came out of slipspace. I'm sorry but... The battle of Anchor 9 was so quiet. There should have been hundrens of different Covenant vessels, and there were not.
The fighting around Anchor 9 was only a small skirmish, it wasn't a large scale battle because it was not truly worth the attention of the Covenant, if Six's Saber Team hadn't been there, then Anchor 9 would have been destroyed and over run. It seems to me that the Covenant deployed at Anchor 9 were merely a force sent to harry the UNSC more than anything else. If they succeeded in destroying the repair dock, all well and good, if they didn't, then they would have cost the UNSC some of its resources and caused them slight delays in repairing ships in that area.
From the dialogue between Kat and Carter in the cutscene right before the Long Night of Solace mission, it sounded to me like the UNSC had already tried to take out the Supercarrier and gotten its ass handed to them by it :/ In which case they would be exercising much more caution and looking for a much lower risk option such as Kat's plan. And I'm not even sure the SMACs would do any significant damage to it, not without getting severely damaged or taken out themselves at least.
And the "issue" with the marines...I'm pretty sure that in reality none of them would have made it to the end of the level considering how damaging the Covenant's plasma is, and especially if one is going by exactly what the books state about how much damage plasma can do (which I frankly think is a bit too exaggerated to be entirely believable). Anyway, regardless of how many marines get to the end of the level in gameplay, the canon of the matter is that Six and Jorge were the only two human survivors of Operation UPPERCUT with Six ultimately being the only survivor of the Op.
And there were a lot more ships that appeared after the Solace was destroyed...I'd estimate that it was 15-20 at the least.
I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the legendary difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.
Even if the SMACS were higher in orbit than the Supercarrier, they could probably turn around and face the other way, and fire down on it. Even so, there were hundreds of UNSC vessels guarding the "doorstep" to Earth. By the way, a ship that size definitely would not last long because it would nt easil be able to avoid a MAC gun. They go a fraction the speed of light. (0.04c) I'm pretty sure.
See above section concerning the marines, though I will add here, getting them to survive takes a lot of luck, even on Heroic, most of the time the poor little marines who go with you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of surviving :/
It depends on if the ship is out of the SMAC/MAC's "range" or not, yes I know that the shot will go on forever until it hits somthing, but there is an effective range to them, if the object they're shooting at is too far away it will be able to evade the round far more easily, and this would be the case with the Supercarrier, and as I already said bringing uneasily maneuverable craft in to take out the Solace would not be a very bright idea.
Reach is the Hub of the UNSC. And the fact that it was poorly defended in the game by a few frigates, a handful of Sabres, and one Halcyon, (WHICH SHOULD NOT BE ON THE GROUND.) was pathetic. Reach is not Harvest. Reach should have been heavily defended by hundreds of UNSC ships of all different classes, and SUPER MACS.
Nothing in this game fits. I hope you have a logical argument as to why this game SHOULD be canon. But if it's something like, "Oh, Bungie made the game, so it is canon." Then you are just one of those people that Bungie would rely on to keep making half-assed games. Please present something logical that I can think about.
You can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.
Just because we only see X number of ships or whatever it is in question does not mean those are the only defenses there. Take for instance Halo 2, you only see a total of about 3 SMAC stations and approximately seven ships, does that mean that Earth only has 3 SMACs above East Africa and seven ships plus the In Amber Clad defending it? No, that just means that is all we actually see. It's the same with Reach, we don't see the SMACs or the huge fleet of UNSC ships because Noble Six never went to the areas they were stationed in. You have to remember that what we see in the game is limited to where Six went and what she encountered there. She never went to the SMACs while in space and the Home Fleet was obviously not deployed in full force to any area(s) she was deployed to.
The "Bungie made it game>books" statement is really the only thing that can be said about why Halo Reach is canon. Bungie was then the current holder of the Halo IP (yes I know Microsoft owned Halo and still does, but Bungie [now 3431] were the ones Microsoft put in charge of organizing and telling Halo's story) and whatever the owner/creator of the universe says goes as long as they're in charge of it. And Bungie laid out a clear policy on how things work when it comes to conflicts, if there is a conflict between a game and already published books, then the game takes precedence over whatever the book stated. Now 343i can change Reach up all they want or declared it to be non-canon, but I very highly doubt that will be the case considering they've released videos on Halo Waypoint talking about both the game's account of Reach and the events therein as well as the books'. And they talk about both as equally canon.
So it's obvious that Reach is canon, as are the books, it's now a simple matter of waiting for 343i to straighten up whatever mess is left, and for those of us who really feel the need, come up with solutions of our own until something official comes along. Those are the only two options really. I mean we can just do nothing and only point out the flaws in Reach that haven't been fixed yet, but where's the fun in that?