Bungie Universe
This topic has moved here: Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?
  • Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?

tell me this then for the sake of argument, the Covenant possess this awesome, nullify everything technology right? what purpose does a Covenant Stealth Corvette have, seriously there is almost no obvious power generation equipment planet-side on Reach to suggest power requirements are an issue, so why not just make all their ships super-invisible?

this is the sort of 'disjointed' style writing I always go on about, a set bunch of rules are in place for a universe and someone decides to alter the ground rules to change something, ruining the whole rest of the foundation, which is why if Halo continues as a saga, this sort of crap needs to stop and some sort of continuity needs to be found between the various out-lets for the series, we have all read the books and stuff, look how irritated it gets us lot when someone decides what we have read, what we have imagined means nothing.

  • 06.26.2011 3:02 PM PDT

stealth corvettes were in the book (TFoR) but instead I think it calls it something else like stealth cruiser or something

  • 06.26.2011 3:04 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x

http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Spire

This is the only place I can really find any info at all on Spires.

  • 06.26.2011 3:06 PM PDT


Posted by: JesseJH
http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Covenant_Spire

This is the only place I can really find any info at all on Spires.
unfortunately your not going to get anything else

  • 06.26.2011 3:08 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: immadchill
stealth corvettes were in the book (TFoR) but instead I think it calls it something else like stealth cruiser or something


It was described as being a craft smaller than a Covenant Frigate, but larger than a dropship. No mention of actual class itself and it certainly didn't function like the Corvettes in Reach. The abilities the stealth ship had in TFOR was the ability to mask itself from sensors, have no blue light being emitted from its engine ports, and the ability to screw with missile guidance systems.

  • 06.26.2011 3:09 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
  •  | 
  • Honorable Member


Posted by: PLUT0NIUM 235
tell me this then for the sake of argument, the Covenant possess this awesome, nullify everything technology right? what purpose does a Covenant Stealth Corvette have, seriously there is almost no obvious power generation equipment planet-side on Reach to suggest power requirements are an issue, so why not just make all their ships super-invisible?

this is the sort of 'disjointed' style writing I always go on about, a set bunch of rules are in place for a universe and someone decides to alter the ground rules to change something, ruining the whole rest of the foundation, which is why if Halo continues as a saga, this sort of crap needs to stop and some sort of continuity needs to be found between the various out-lets for the series, we have all read the books and stuff, look how irritated it gets us lot when someone decides what we have read, what we have imagined means nothing.
If the spires were as common as stealth corvettes, there would be no purpose for stealth corvettes. Obviously, this is not the case. The UNSC clearly hasn't encountered this things, else they would've been wiser in dealing witht the threats. Either, these are a new "innovation" (reverse engineering), or they simply can't be deployed with the same frequency as stealth corvettes, so this is the first time we see them.

So, you can't see the power source, therefore it doesn't exist, amirite? Just like how you couldn't see the rest of the fleet from anchor nine, so it DOESN'T EXIST, right? That's a primitive way of thinking. Sure, there's no visible explanation for a power source right there, in the vicinity, but that doesn't mean it that it doesn't exist. It could be powered by a faraway generator, like the ODPs, or perhaps by the supercarrier itself, and the spires just had the specialized equipment.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 3:10 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 3:09 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?

"Similar in design, if not implementation, to the UNSC's Prowler-class stealth vessels, the Covenant versions used active camouflage like systems to render them imperceptible to UNSC sensors, and visually invisible.It also possessed electronic countermeasures, able to interfere with the guidance systems of Archer missiles, and was able to gather intelligence.One of these managed to survive for a time above Sigma Octanus IV, before it was rammed by the UNSC Iroquois under order of Captain Keyes" --halopedia

Read page 190 to maybe 210 to read about it in TFoR,

the reason they weren't able to make all there ships like this is because it takes a lot power which takes up alot of room so it cant have many armaments (much like the UNSC Prowlers) so if the covenant can have a ship that can jump into a system fly into sub orbit go away and leave withought being spotted, why cant 100s of stealth pylons and many spires can't?

  • 06.26.2011 3:12 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x

Alright. Let's assume the spire can hide everything about a supercarrier. Every form of energy or light given off of it.

It is assumed that Spires are dropped off by ships onto the ground, and not built on the planet. They could be built on the planet. But we don't know.

Alright... So while the spire is being dropped onto the ground from a ship, how could it be operational at that time? If the spire is built secretly n Reach, how is it operational if it isnt built yet? The supercarrier would have to wait in orbit until it is operational. (in that amount of time, someone would definitely see it.)

  • 06.26.2011 3:12 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: immadchill
stealth corvettes were in the book (TFoR) but instead I think it calls it something else like stealth cruiser or something


No, it's not stealth corvette or cruiser. It says it's smaller than corvette but it is bigger than drop-ship. Which we can assume that it is size of prowler (150 to 200 meters long), it's in page 224 to 226 in The Fall of Reach. And you stated that Iroquois discovered stealth ship by accident which it is false. Iroquious indeed did detect stealth ship exiting from slip-space.

Here's a quote:

"Covenant ship detected in orbit around Sigma Octanus Four" Lieutenant Hall reported. (The Fall of Reach, page 224)

  • 06.26.2011 3:13 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x

in halopedia its called, "Stealth Corvette" so thats what I called it in my post. I just meant the ship from Sigma Octanus IV, and I think it they only were able to sense it because they were very close to it.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 3:18 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 3:15 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: immadchill
in halopedia its called, "Stealth Corvette" so thats what I called it in my post. I just meant the ship from Sigma Octanus IV, and I think it they only were able to sense it because they were very close to it.


Do you realize that Halopedian isn't exactly reliable source, right? Books are best for reliable sources. Like I said, I'd suggest you to read between 224 and 226 pages in The Fall of Reach.

  • 06.26.2011 3:19 PM PDT

ya I know and I just re-read them. I think they found it only because they were close to it. And ya I just used it on the fly because I didn't want to go find my book.

  • 06.26.2011 3:22 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?

Brains beats brawn get used to it

Fear the Red Comet

Variety is the spice of life.
Long live games.
Death to all fanboys.


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: immadchill
stealth corvettes were in the book (TFoR) but instead I think it calls it something else like stealth cruiser or something


No, it's not stealth corvette or cruiser. It says it's smaller than corvette but it is bigger than drop-ship. Which we can assume that it is size of prowler (150 to 200 meters long), it's in page 224 to 226 in The Fall of Reach. And you stated that Iroquois discovered stealth ship by accident which it is false. Iroquious indeed did detect stealth ship exiting from slip-space.

Here's a quote:

"Covenant ship detected in orbit around Sigma Octanus Four" Lieutenant Hall reported. (The Fall of Reach, page 224)


They didn't detect the stealth ship exiting slipspace. It was already there doing its thing. The reason they found the ship in the first place was because Keyes opted to keep the Iroquois out of the main fray due to its less than optimal condition. Instead, he choose to finish off Covenant ships in the debris field where it was safer for the crew, but still helpful to the fleet. It was then that they stumbled onto the stealth ship because sensors picked it up visually.

Also to reiterate. It's stated that it's smaller than a Covenant Frigate, not smaller than a Corvette. To quote:

"It was smaller than the Covenant equivalent of a frigate...but definitely larger than one of the aliens' dropships." Top of page 225

  • 06.26.2011 3:22 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

Enjoy what you have and live on.

My gamertag is Elder Bias


Posted by: immadchill
ya I know and I just re-read them. I think they found it only because they were close to it. And ya I just used it on the fly because I didn't want to go find my book.


And, UNSC had technology to detect any slip-space ruptures or any ship in extreme long ranges, so it's pretty common for any ships in UNSC Navy had it like that.

Perhaps I'll do my little part; find a internet source that is properly sourced from books, etc for Halo universe. Not like halo wiki or whatever.

StealthSlasher2


They didn't detect the stealth ship exiting slipspace. It was already there doing its thing. The reason they found the ship in the first place was because Keyes opted to keep the Iroquois out of the main fray due to its less than optimal condition. Instead, he choose to finish off Covenant ships in the debris field where it was safer for the crew, but still helpful to the fleet. It was then that they stumbled onto the stealth ship because sensors picked it up visually.

Also to reiterate. It's stated that it's smaller than a Covenant Frigate, not smaller than a Corvette. To quote:

"It was smaller than the Covenant equivalent of a frigate...but definitely larger than one of the aliens' dropships." Top of page 225


Damn, I missed that part. Thanks, man.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 3:27 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 3:24 PM PDT

s
Posted by: JesseJH
Alright. Let's assume the spire can hide everything about a supercarrier. Every form of energy or light given off of it.

It is assumed that Spires are dropped off by ships onto the ground, and not built on the planet. They could be built on the planet. But we don't know.

Alright... So while the spire is being dropped onto the ground from a ship, how could it be operational at that time? If the spire is built secretly n Reach, how is it operational if it isnt built yet? The supercarrier would have to wait in orbit until it is operational. (in that amount of time, someone would definitely see it.)


First of all the Supercarrier wouldnt jump until the spires were fully operational. Second, remember how in Reach (the game) remember in Nightfall it shows how large the dark zone is? well thats plenty of space for the spires. The spires can cloak the supercarrier, put out an energy shield around them that doubles as an emp field, and can teleport additional forces from the supercarrier to the planet. Once the stealth pylons became active the majority of the force that was already there started to construct to spires. Any ground troops that walked into the Dark zone were slaughtered by Covie forces and any air was destroyed by the AA guns. Once they finished The LNoS jumped in and was cloaked by the lack of UNSC sensors and by the Spires. (this is all speculation, the game doesnt tell you anything about how they got there.)

  • 06.26.2011 3:28 PM PDT

about the mac platforms maybe the covenant did what they did in halo 2 where they blew up the mac platforms to punch a hole in earths defenses
also the spire that you blow up was a cloaking generator for the supercarrier thats why it was able to stay in space so long

  • 06.26.2011 3:35 PM PDT


Posted by: immadchill
s
Posted by: JesseJH
Alright. Let's assume the spire can hide everything about a supercarrier. Every form of energy or light given off of it.

It is assumed that Spires are dropped off by ships onto the ground, and not built on the planet. They could be built on the planet. But we don't know.

Alright... So while the spire is being dropped onto the ground from a ship, how could it be operational at that time? If the spire is built secretly n Reach, how is it operational if it isnt built yet? The supercarrier would have to wait in orbit until it is operational. (in that amount of time, someone would definitely see it.)


First of all the Supercarrier wouldnt jump until the spires were fully operational. Second, remember how in Reach (the game) remember in Nightfall it shows how large the dark zone is? well thats plenty of space for the spires. The spires can cloak the supercarrier, put out an energy shield around them that doubles as an emp field, and can teleport additional forces from the supercarrier to the planet. Once the stealth pylons became active the majority of the force that was already there started to construct to spires. Any ground troops that walked into the Dark zone were slaughtered by Covie forces and any air was destroyed by the AA guns. Once they finished The LNoS jumped in and was cloaked by the lack of UNSC sensors and by the Spires. (this is all speculation, the game doesnt tell you anything about how they got there.)


Although this does make sense, all of the UNSC's sensors were not down because UNSC ships and Satellites and Space Stations have their own sensors. The LNoS would have been detected easily just by the slipspace signature.

  • 06.26.2011 3:35 PM PDT

Also there is no way that the ship itself could be invisible after emerging for Slipspace. Such a huge ship could probably be seen from the ground on Reach.

  • 06.26.2011 3:37 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: raganok99
4. No again, timeline is messed up as well. PoA are supposed to be battling against super-cruiser, aiding the defensive fleet, dropping off Blue Team to secure NAV data in Circumference at GAMMA STATION.


Time difference. All of what was just mentioned happens in the early hours of the day. The final level for Reach takes places later in the day.

Just thought I'd point that out.

  • 06.26.2011 3:54 PM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: immadchill

Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: JesseJH
I do declare Reach non-canon because it makes no sense and doesnt fit. That doesn't mean it's official and that it isnt canon just because I said so.


Exactly, that's what I meant when I refuse to consider Reach as canon because it doesn't make any sense especially with timeline, super-carrier event and sneaking to Reach without any slip-space rupture detection, PoA being on ground and several inconsistencies.

Funny thing is that I'm only Noble member here... 0.0 (Sorry for off-topic!)

So, I think I shall side with OP for this.


The timeline is fine and I have written one in the unexplainable errors thread, sensors were jammed with stealth pylons and it was cloaked by the spires and jumped into sub orbital space so it couldn't get shot down by SMACS,
POA is easily explainable.


Your suggestion/theory brings up several problems:

1. UNSC is heavily militarized in Reach, it's pretty obvious that they would want to know why their sensor isn't working properly, thus sending someone to investigate. Bam! They see super-carrier or any ships there, then call fleet to immediately attack the "invading" forces. And, they have stations that are designed to read the gravitational field strengths, it's obviously that they can see large distortion caused by Super-Carrier or stealth pylons as well.

2. Covenant is imitative, I don't see how that stealth pylons are capable to covering up very LARGE slip-space signature left behind by exiting from slip-space. And you know that radiation can penetrate cloaking, depending on types of radiation. Besides, it would require large source of energy for stealth pylons to cover that as well. Which i can assume that large source of energy would be equivalent to sun-like energy that is necessary enough to cloak that big and high radiations released by slip-space.

3. No, PoA is not easily explainable because to propel off this massive beast from the ground, IT WOULD BE MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF ENERGY REQUIRED TO propel this beast off the ground! Look at thrusters, it's obvious that they are small, all right? I estimate it wouldn't be bigger than 200 to 450 meters long. Even with dozens of it, it wouldn't be enough energy to actually lift off this beast off from this ground! Gravity plays a key role in the planets, gravity can AFFECT anything, even to this PoA. Countering the gravitational strength, would normally require large amounts of energy to do this.

4. No again, timeline is messed up as well. PoA are supposed to be battling against super-cruiser, aiding the defensive fleet, dropping off Blue Team to secure NAV data in Circumference at GAMMA STATION.

I have read your posts on unexplainable errors thread, and I don't agree with your posts because of several problems appeared, as I explained here. I'll bring this post to that thread as soon I can.


1. They did, they were either killed or shot down and it was already cloaked

2.it doesn't cloak ANYTHING I've said this so many times. The Stealth Pylons jam UNSC sensors, the spire makes it invisible to the eye.

3. It's 500 years into the future dude

4. Later this day it lands in atmosphere

  • 06.26.2011 4:23 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon. If you don't agree... Why?


Posted by: JFMK2
Just to clairify, your argument is that you can't see the Covenant's entire armada, nor the UNSC home fleet in one condensed area? During a global, weeks long campaign? If the skirmish for Anchor nine was a decisive factor, this argument would make sense. However, it was not. The Covenant cleary didn't suspect anything of the forces stationed at anchor nine, else they wouldn't have been slipspace bombed so easily. As such, what you saw cannot possibly represent their entire scouting force.

Oh, and I must remind you, this is a battle for a planet, fought over the course of a few weeks. As such, both armies respective forces are spread around the surface of the planet, and the vast gulf of space surrouding it. Thus, even in the heat of a climactic battle, you can't possibly expect to see both factions' entire fleets all at once. In Halo Reach, you were treated to several small scale skirmishes, not the entire damn battle, which isn't nearly enough to make estimates based around. There could have been hundreds of vessels all in separate engagements. As such, you can't expect to see the entire fleet, only parts of it.

In Halo 3, the size of the defense grid around Earth is cleary established. However, you only see one percent of it. Guess why? They're spread across the planet, just like Reach's fleet.

You may have noted that I'm explaining this like I'm explaining something to a total moron. I'm using simple words, and repeating myself. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of insulting your intelligence. This is just to ensure that there's no miscommunication whatsoever. I hope this doesn't get messy.


*claps slowly and rise to stand* You sir are quite brilliant, very excellent points and excellent use of commons sense *applauds again*

Posted by: JesseJH
The invasion of Reach was severely downplayed. I saw no Mac Guns in orbit above Reach, and barely any UNSC ships. When Jorge sacrificed himself (Didn't make sense to when there were marines.) to take down a Covenant Supercarrier, (Which by the way a ship that size would not last long above Reach because of all the ships and SMACS that SHOULD be present.) There were like 5 more Covenant ships that came out of slipspace. I'm sorry but... The battle of Anchor 9 was so quiet. There should have been hundrens of different Covenant vessels, and there were not.


The fighting around Anchor 9 was only a small skirmish, it wasn't a large scale battle because it was not truly worth the attention of the Covenant, if Six's Saber Team hadn't been there, then Anchor 9 would have been destroyed and over run. It seems to me that the Covenant deployed at Anchor 9 were merely a force sent to harry the UNSC more than anything else. If they succeeded in destroying the repair dock, all well and good, if they didn't, then they would have cost the UNSC some of its resources and caused them slight delays in repairing ships in that area.

From the dialogue between Kat and Carter in the cutscene right before the Long Night of Solace mission, it sounded to me like the UNSC had already tried to take out the Supercarrier and gotten its ass handed to them by it :/ In which case they would be exercising much more caution and looking for a much lower risk option such as Kat's plan. And I'm not even sure the SMACs would do any significant damage to it, not without getting severely damaged or taken out themselves at least.

And the "issue" with the marines...I'm pretty sure that in reality none of them would have made it to the end of the level considering how damaging the Covenant's plasma is, and especially if one is going by exactly what the books state about how much damage plasma can do (which I frankly think is a bit too exaggerated to be entirely believable). Anyway, regardless of how many marines get to the end of the level in gameplay, the canon of the matter is that Six and Jorge were the only two human survivors of Operation UPPERCUT with Six ultimately being the only survivor of the Op.
And there were a lot more ships that appeared after the Solace was destroyed...I'd estimate that it was 15-20 at the least.

I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the legendary difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.
Even if the SMACS were higher in orbit than the Supercarrier, they could probably turn around and face the other way, and fire down on it. Even so, there were hundreds of UNSC vessels guarding the "doorstep" to Earth. By the way, a ship that size definitely would not last long because it would nt easil be able to avoid a MAC gun. They go a fraction the speed of light. (0.04c) I'm pretty sure.


See above section concerning the marines, though I will add here, getting them to survive takes a lot of luck, even on Heroic, most of the time the poor little marines who go with you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of surviving :/

It depends on if the ship is out of the SMAC/MAC's "range" or not, yes I know that the shot will go on forever until it hits somthing, but there is an effective range to them, if the object they're shooting at is too far away it will be able to evade the round far more easily, and this would be the case with the Supercarrier, and as I already said bringing uneasily maneuverable craft in to take out the Solace would not be a very bright idea.

Reach is the Hub of the UNSC. And the fact that it was poorly defended in the game by a few frigates, a handful of Sabres, and one Halcyon, (WHICH SHOULD NOT BE ON THE GROUND.) was pathetic. Reach is not Harvest. Reach should have been heavily defended by hundreds of UNSC ships of all different classes, and SUPER MACS.

Nothing in this game fits. I hope you have a logical argument as to why this game SHOULD be canon. But if it's something like, "Oh, Bungie made the game, so it is canon." Then you are just one of those people that Bungie would rely on to keep making half-assed games. Please present something logical that I can think about.

You can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.


Just because we only see X number of ships or whatever it is in question does not mean those are the only defenses there. Take for instance Halo 2, you only see a total of about 3 SMAC stations and approximately seven ships, does that mean that Earth only has 3 SMACs above East Africa and seven ships plus the In Amber Clad defending it? No, that just means that is all we actually see. It's the same with Reach, we don't see the SMACs or the huge fleet of UNSC ships because Noble Six never went to the areas they were stationed in. You have to remember that what we see in the game is limited to where Six went and what she encountered there. She never went to the SMACs while in space and the Home Fleet was obviously not deployed in full force to any area(s) she was deployed to.

The "Bungie made it game>books" statement is really the only thing that can be said about why Halo Reach is canon. Bungie was then the current holder of the Halo IP (yes I know Microsoft owned Halo and still does, but Bungie [now 3431] were the ones Microsoft put in charge of organizing and telling Halo's story) and whatever the owner/creator of the universe says goes as long as they're in charge of it. And Bungie laid out a clear policy on how things work when it comes to conflicts, if there is a conflict between a game and already published books, then the game takes precedence over whatever the book stated. Now 343i can change Reach up all they want or declared it to be non-canon, but I very highly doubt that will be the case considering they've released videos on Halo Waypoint talking about both the game's account of Reach and the events therein as well as the books'. And they talk about both as equally canon.

So it's obvious that Reach is canon, as are the books, it's now a simple matter of waiting for 343i to straighten up whatever mess is left, and for those of us who really feel the need, come up with solutions of our own until something official comes along. Those are the only two options really. I mean we can just do nothing and only point out the flaws in Reach that haven't been fixed yet, but where's the fun in that?

  • 06.26.2011 4:35 PM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:


Posted by: JesseJH
The invasion of Reach was severely downplayed. I saw no Mac Guns in orbit above Reach, and barely any UNSC ships...

...Even if the SMACS were higher in orbit than the Supercarrier, they could probably turn around and face the other way, and fire down on it. Even so, there were hundreds of UNSC vessels guarding the "doorstep" to Earth. By the way, a ship that size definitely would not last long because it would nt easil be able to avoid a MAC gun. They go a fraction the speed of light. (0.04c) I'm pretty sure.

Reach is the Hub of the UNSC. And the fact that it was poorly defended in the game by a few frigates, a handful of Sabres, and one Halcyon, (WHICH SHOULD NOT BE ON THE GROUND.) was pathetic. Reach is not Harvest. Reach should have been heavily defended by hundreds of UNSC ships of all different classes, and SUPER MACS....

About the super MACS. Have you ever seen an asteroid field in real life? When the Voyager probe (not sure which one) went through the asteroid belt, the closest it got to a "large" one was about 1.6 million kilometers away. There are almost 100,000 named asteroids in the belt. Now think about the SMACS. There are 20 in geosynchronous orbit around Reach. That is not a lot. At max, you would have maybe seen one SMAC during Long Night of Solace. In Halo 2, you see the Malta and Athens while on the Cairo, but they probably wouldn't be seen realistically.

Yes, they can fire downwards. You know what destroyed the corvette at the end of Sword Base? That was a SMAC. I find it highly doubtful, however, that any SMACs were nearby, and I would assume that Anchor 9 was in geosynchronous orbit around Reach too. And no, there weren't very many ships around Reach. As Auntie Dot said, "Sixty percent of the UNSC fleet is en route to Reach" implying that at max 40% of the fleet was at Reach. Highly doubtful. Granted, there were at least three frigates: the Grafton, Savannah, and Saratoga.

I would like to know if it really and truly breaks canon that the Autumn is on the ground? Just curious, as it's been awhile since I read TFoR. Also, I'm pretty sure that SMACs go 40% the speed of light. And anyway, about what? a hundred ships? came back from other parts of the galaxy to assist in defending Reach. Basically, there were a handful of SMACs, ships in other places, and some Sabres, which were still prototypes.

  • 06.26.2011 5:00 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: n008c4k
I would like to know if it really and truly breaks canon that the Autumn is on the ground? Just curious, as it's been awhile since I read TFoR.


It does and doesn't.

It doesn't break canon because there's a large enough time gap between the events in the book and game.

It breaks canon because the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.

  • 06.26.2011 5:16 PM PDT


Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: n008c4k
I would like to know if it really and truly breaks canon that the Autumn is on the ground? Just curious, as it's been awhile since I read TFoR.


It does and doesn't.

It doesn't break canon because there's a large enough time gap between the events in the book and game.

It breaks canon because the PoA was never rated for atmosphere.


It's never really been clear what that term exactly means though. I mean it's obvious that ships that aren't rated for atmosphere are not meant to actually perform a combat role in one, but other than it's not very clear and could mean any number of different things. Going off of size alone I see no problems at all with the Autumn or other similarly sized UNSC ships entering and atmosphere and flying around considering the Spirit of Fire is considerably larger and it was in the atmosphere of that Flood infected Shield World (both the inner and outer sections of the planet) with no problems at all.

  • 06.26.2011 6:36 PM PDT

"Halo! Its divine wind will rush through the stars, propelling all who are worthy along the path to salvation."

You can't declare anything. You're not part of Bungie, if Bungie says it happened, it did. Now that 343 is coming in, they will also see it as Canon. You can't say what's canon or not, also, Game > Books. Its a Rule.

  • 06.26.2011 6:38 PM PDT