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This topic has moved here: Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
  • Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
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The events of Halo Reach is just ONI propaganda.

  • 06.26.2011 6:43 PM PDT

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Posted by: JesseJH
I do declare Reach non-canon because it makes no sense and doesnt fit. That doesn't mean it's official and that it isnt canon just because I said so. But this isnt what this thread is about.

OP,

I have read your post. You point out some problems with the actual video game representation of the story. But can you elaborate on how those shortcomings in storytelling nullify the accuracy of the story that is being described by the game? When you declare something 'non-canon', I take that to mean that the vast majority of the artifact portrays something that is not the Halo story and is therefore acanonical. If there were MAC guns that couldn't be shown due to technical reasons, for instance, that is only an imperfection in the mode of transmission. I think your opposition would be more challenged to argue if you explained how the story of Halo Reach, when ideally implemented, is not canonical. So are you saying that it is not canonical or that the quality of the canonical artifact is disappointing? Because the reasons you've given seem to support only the latter assertion.

[Edited on 06.26.2011 7:38 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 7:37 PM PDT
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Posted by: JesseJH
The invasion of Reach was severely downplayed.

There were like 5 more Covenant ships that came out of slipspace. I'm sorry but... The battle of Anchor 9 was so quiet. There should have been hundrens of different Covenant vessels, and there were not.

Even if the SMACS were higher in orbit than the Supercarrier, they could probably turn around and face the other way, and fire down on it.

By the way, a ship that size definitely would not last long because it would nt easil be able to avoid a MAC gun. They go a fraction the speed of light. (0.04c) I'm pretty sure.

Reach is the Hub of the UNSC. And the fact that it was poorly defended in the game by a few frigates, a handful of Sabres, and one Halcyon, (WHICH SHOULD NOT BE ON THE GROUND.) was pathetic. Reach is not Harvest. Reach should have been heavily defended by hundreds of UNSC ships of all different classes, and SUPER MACS.

Please present something logical that I can think about.

You can't argue with me is that the book was way more epic than the game. AND it made more sense.


Since I'm bored, I might as well...

Eric's Invasion of Reach was more downplayed. 1 day, seriously? 1 day for the Covenant to take over Reach?

I cannot exactly state when, but Halo: Reach took place before TFoR. It is safe to assume that the events of TFoR took place canonically somewhere after LNoS. Before that, Covenant forces have already infiltrated the planet and begun building up an army. The reason for the UNSC ships late arrival would be the fact that even then Human forces' ship were far inferior to Covenant ships in terms of slipspace technology. It is safe to say some of the Covenant strike force got there first.

If I had to give a guess, I would say the events in TFoR took place during the events from Exodus to PoA on Reach.

I was under the impression that the PoA was no longer fighting and had to go into atmosphere to retrieve the data fragment. Just look at the supercarrier above you. It is clear they have begun glassing.

Posted by: JesseJH
I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the legendary difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.


You blind?

[Edited on 06.26.2011 7:58 PM PDT]

  • 06.26.2011 7:58 PM PDT

Posted by: JesseJH
I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the legendary difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.


you lost me here

  • 06.26.2011 8:16 PM PDT

What is stopping me from declaring a game not canon? You? Ha. I can declare anything I want. Doesn't mean it has to matter to you does it? I could declare there being a bomb strapped to your Mom if I wanted to.

Anyways... The Pillar of Autumn was not rated for atmosphere for one thing.

However, that doesn't mean it CANT fly in the atmosphere. Although since it is such a massive vessel, I doubt it could even land correctly. It has no wings and does not look aerodynamic at all. Just a fat ship. No way something like that could fly. As far as I can tell, it doesn't even have any thrusters underneath it to help it lift or balance.

I remember when a marine in Halo 3 asked if The Dawn was rated for in atmosphere, and someone said "I guess we'll find out" or something along those lines. I can understand a frigate being able to fly in atmosphere. But PoA? No...

  • 06.26.2011 8:22 PM PDT


Posted by: sgtfirestorm
Posted by: JesseJH
I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the legendary difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.


you lost me here


EXCUSE ME. I meant Heroic. let me change it.

  • 06.26.2011 8:25 PM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: JesseJH

Posted by: sgtfirestorm
Posted by: JesseJH
I was playing Long Night of Solace when I got 1 marine to survive. It states clearly under the legendary difficulty that, "This is how Halo is meant to be played."
or something.


you lost me here

EXCUSE ME. I meant Heroic. let me change it.

Haha, the difficulty description bears no relevance to canon.

If I died on a heroic playthrough would that be canon?
No, I don't see why you are trying to connect the dots with the description to Campaign Difficulty to actual canon. It's a pretty poor argument put forward.

Although I do agree Jorge's death is absolute BS after I played through LNOS and saved all the Marines.

Bad story telling and game direction on Bungie's part. But sadly it is canon.

  • 06.26.2011 8:46 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

To be fair, neither Jorge or the Marines had re-entry packs or access to the Sabres.

  • 06.26.2011 8:48 PM PDT

You do realize that you're arguing about a video game and a book based on a video game? It's fiction. It's meant to entertain you, not be taken seriously. Jesus, try not to bust a nut dude.

  • 06.26.2011 9:06 PM PDT

I declare OP a spammer cause he made two topics which are basically the same thing. J/k

Seriously though, why did this topic have to be made when you had a topic which was the exact same basically before?

  • 06.26.2011 9:25 PM PDT

I'm not big on this forum so I didn't think I could change the title of the post. My bad.

  • 06.26.2011 11:54 PM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: JesseJH
However, that doesn't mean it CANT fly in the atmosphere. Although since it is such a massive vessel, I doubt it could even land correctly. It has no wings and does not look aerodynamic at all. Just a fat ship. No way something like that could fly. As far as I can tell, it doesn't even have any thrusters underneath it to help it lift or balance.


Couldn't you bring it in with tug-boats or some kind of support as it's entering the atmosphere? Help it into dock then prepare for it take-off? Seems like it could work.

  • 06.27.2011 12:15 AM PDT
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Member of Bungie.net for nearly three years, still continuing!

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Posted by: kit_103
Posted by: JesseJH
However, that doesn't mean it CANT fly in the atmosphere. Although since it is such a massive vessel, I doubt it could even land correctly. It has no wings and does not look aerodynamic at all. Just a fat ship. No way something like that could fly. As far as I can tell, it doesn't even have any thrusters underneath it to help it lift or balance.


Couldn't you bring it in with tug-boats or some kind of support as it's entering the atmosphere? Help it into dock then prepare for it take-off? Seems like it could work.


Actually it wouldn't work like that.

To prepare to take off from atmosphere as evidence shown on Halo: Reach's ending of Pillar Of Autumn cut-scene; it would require massive amounts of energy to actually lift this over a hundred thousand of ton ship and sheer size, it is measured to be over 1,000 meters long. With gravity, it was supposed to stay this fat ship down for good. Those thrusters must be about 400 meters long, since I measured it by using frigate (458 meters long) scale to the thrusters in the cut-scene and I don't see how they able to lift, even with those dozen thrusters. It would require at least three to four dozens thrusters or more to lift this ship off.

And to "pull" the 100,000 ton ship in atmosphere, tub-boat would have to be size of cruisers! (I might be wrong, anybody can correct me, although.)

  • 06.27.2011 12:37 AM PDT

Apparently a bungie member actually did the calculations about how much fuel/power was required from each thruster for the PoA to launch. Also, those thrusters were damn big.

  • 06.27.2011 12:48 AM PDT

"What do you hear?"
"Nothing but the rain."
"Then grab your gun and bring in the cat."
"Boom, boom, boom!"

Posted by: raganok99
And to "pull" the 100,000 ton ship in atmosphere, tub-boat would have to be size of cruisers! (I might be wrong, anybody can correct me, although.)


This is where I do the stupid thing and say "USE MORE TUG-BOATZ!" but that just doesn't seem right and then I look like an idiot lol.

Hmmmm...well, I get the feeling it had some sort of assistance going in. I'm just curious as to what...

Yes, I'm totally ignoring physics and what not. =D

  • 06.27.2011 1:11 AM PDT
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Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Apparently a bungie member actually did the calculations about how much fuel/power was required from each thruster for the PoA to launch. Also, those thrusters were damn big.


Would you kindly link that statement? So I can see those calculations and determine a answer.

  • 06.27.2011 1:18 AM PDT


Posted by: raganok99

Posted by: Cmdr DaeFaron
Apparently a bungie member actually did the calculations about how much fuel/power was required from each thruster for the PoA to launch. Also, those thrusters were damn big.


Would you kindly link that statement? So I can see those calculations and determine a answer.


Legendary commentary. They don't say the numbers but do mention it.

  • 06.27.2011 2:12 AM PDT

Here's the part where they mention it.

Skip to 1:00.

  • 06.27.2011 2:21 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: DecepticonCobra
To be fair, neither Jorge or the Marines had re-entry packs or access to the Sabres.

So it was a suicide mission either way for them?
That's a pretty shoddy plot device for Bungie. Jorge shouldn't be as expendable as he was made out to be. But they had to kill him off somehow.

Which was clearly evident, by the forceful and disbelief-able approach.

  • 06.27.2011 4:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
To be fair, neither Jorge or the Marines had re-entry packs or access to the Sabres.

So it was a suicide mission either way for them?
That's a pretty shoddy plot device for Bungie. Jorge shouldn't be as expendable as he was made out to be. But they had to kill him off somehow.

Which was clearly evident, by the forceful and disbelief-able approach.


I assumed they would plant the makeshift bomb and exit via the pelican.

Since there is nobody left, with 6 having a re-entry pack and the bomb having to be detonated manually, I don't see the point of returning with a pelican alone.

Either that, or a re-entry pack is hidden in Jorge's Armor.

[Edited on 06.27.2011 4:19 AM PDT]

  • 06.27.2011 4:18 AM PDT

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.

Posted by: Poy Poy
Posted by: ninjakenzen
Posted by: DecepticonCobra
To be fair, neither Jorge or the Marines had re-entry packs or access to the Sabres.

So it was a suicide mission either way for them?
That's a pretty shoddy plot device for Bungie. Jorge shouldn't be as expendable as he was made out to be. But they had to kill him off somehow.

Which was clearly evident, by the forceful and disbelief-able approach.


I assumed they would plant the makeshift bomb and exit via the pelican.

Since there is nobody left, with 6 having a re-entry pack and the bomb having to be detonated manually, I don't see the point of returning with a pelican alone.

Either that, or a re-entry pack is hidden in Jorge's Armor.

Ahh maybe its what's his beer belly tank is for.
:)

It can't have been the pelican because they had welded the makeshift "bomb", slipspace drive, onto the pelican. Which means they expected it to stay in the hanger.

But I like your attempt to justify it.

  • 06.27.2011 4:36 AM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x
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Posted by: ninjakenzen

Ahh maybe its what's his beer belly tank is for.
:)

It can't have been the pelican because they had welded the makeshift "bomb", slipspace drive, onto the pelican. Which means they expected it to stay in the hanger.

But I like your attempt to justify it.


The beer tank, or why Jorge was seemingly sent on a suicide mission?

[Edited on 06.27.2011 7:49 AM PDT]

  • 06.27.2011 7:48 AM PDT
Subject: I Declare Halo: Reach Non-Canon Due to Inconsistancies. Arguments pl0x

If you're passionate about the thing you're talking about, I'll always lend an ear.


Posted by: Poy Poy
Posted by: ninjakenzen

Ahh maybe its what's his beer belly tank is for.
:)

It can't have been the pelican because they had welded the makeshift "bomb", slipspace drive, onto the pelican. Which means they expected it to stay in the hanger.

But I like your attempt to justify it.


The beer tank, or why Jorge was seemingly sent on a suicide mission?

The pelican as a way home and because of the cause and effect, it leaving not being a possibility. It was logically sound but you overlooked the bomb being attached to the pelican. Then the explanation on Jorge with the re-entry pack as a case in point.

It's a very positive approach and productive too. But it doesn't change that, well from my POV, Bungie did a half-assed job with that.

[Edited on 06.27.2011 8:11 AM PDT]

  • 06.27.2011 8:09 AM PDT